Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Rift planes of Telara is a ripoff?

2

Comments

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,230

    Originally posted by Zippy

    Originally posted by Senerius

    There has already been a lawsuit and they lost.

     

     

     

    The only thing they really had in common was the Term "RIFT". 

    That is a bit missleading.  They did not lose on the merits of the case.  They lost only on jurisdiction.  The court ruled that Trion had no personal contacts with Michigan therefore Michigan courts had no jurisdiction over them to hear a lawsuit.  They can refile the case if they want to in either Texas or California and then the case would have to be heard on its merits.  The problem a company like Palladium has its quite expensive to fight against a company the size of Trion that can hire enough lawyers to effectively make the the cost to high for Palladium to continue litigating its action against them.  This is typically done by big pocket corporations all the time where their lawyers file so many motions that they can essentially make the cost of proceeding against them to high.  The other problem Palldium has is to protect a copyright they have to enforce any infrigments on it.  In others words they lose their copywright protections, not only against Trion but any subsequent violators, if they do not take action.  While this may sound like Palladium is in a bad position that does mean they are without fault.  The rhetoric palladium putsout seems a bit hard headed and something that would make any compromise very difficult.

    Actually I think its a matter of trademark not copyright.  The legal details will likely be different.

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,230

    Originally posted by donkeys

    Originally posted by Achillez





    Similarities will happen with any game in relation to something else. "Omg, WoW has Orcs. Lets all cry about it." These arguments are kind of meaningless.

    Right, similarities do happen by accident.

    However, this is the lore of RIFTS (the table-top game):

     In the Rifts game, points where ley lines intersect, called a nexus, are places of powerful magic, such as the Pyramids of Giza and Stonehenge. If a ley line nexus grows very strong, the very fabric of space and time can be torn thus creating a rift, a hole in space-time leading to another place, time or a new or parallel dimension.

     

    It's the exact same thing in Rift.

     

    Rifts that break the fabric of the world and grow stronger, creating a hole in the world.

     

    I think it isnt really relevant how close the two games are to each other.  The point is that palladium has a trademark on the name Rift for computer games.  If the trademark is valid then any other computer game named rift would be an infringement regardless of the content.

  • AthcearAthcear Member Posts: 420

    So, is any game where a person goes into a dungeon and fights a dragon beholden to DnD?

    Important facts:
    1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
    2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
    3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
    4. Community is more important than you think.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by Athcear

    So, is any game where a person goes into a dungeon and fights a dragon beholden to DnD?

     

    The only problem I have with this is the same problem I have with Warcraft/Starcraft and the copy of Warhammer. Get away with it as they may, it doesn't change the fact they've lost quite a few points in the creativty department. That's based on name alone and the similarities in concept. The game itself may be completely different.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • EmhsterEmhster Member UncommonPosts: 913

    Originally posted by Malickie

    The only problem I have with this is the same problem I have with Warcraft/Starcraft and the copy of Warhammer. Get away with it as they may, it doesn't change the fact they've lost quite a few points in the creativty department. That's based on name alone and the similarities in concept. The game itself may be completely different.

    Didn't the Warcraft IP come directly from Warhammer, where Blizzard was supposed to create a RTS about GWS' IP? Then they ended up splitting the IP...

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,230

    Originally posted by Athcear

    So, is any game where a person goes into a dungeon and fights a dragon beholden to DnD?

    Its not the content its the name.  Trademark not copyright.  Any computer game that calls itself "Dragons and Dungeons" or "Rift: Dungeons and Dragons" or "Dungeons N Dragons" would be an infringement on trademark, even if it has no dungeons and no dragons in it.  Assuming the trademark holds up that is.

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415

    We already beat this topic to death and then some in a previous thread on these very same forums.

    The basic gist is that people who are fans of the tabletop game, are, like in the video, making sweeping assumptions about the Rift: PoT MMO.

    When you dig down and look at the details, the only real similarity they share is the useage of the word Rift. Palladium knows this which is why this suit is a trademark issue and not a copywright issue. 

    The problem that Palladium is going to run into is they have to show that they would assume monetary damages or the loss of future possible monetary damages by this game releasing.  In order to show they would lose future damages, they have to show that they have established a foothold in the computer game market and that they are actively pursuing development of a product in that market.

    This is where palladium is going to fail, miserably.

    I guarantee you what siembieda is trying to do with this lawsuit is to get Trion to pay him a settlement in pre trial negotiations, he's done it dozens of times in the past.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • SgtFrogSgtFrog Member Posts: 5,001

    He seems so dorky.

    image
    March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon

  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,740

    I trademarked 'Dungeon' , I have a feeling I am about to be rich!

  • lokitrixterlokitrixter Member UncommonPosts: 9

    OMG Aion has Rifts it must be ripping off the table top RPG as well!!! /sarcasm

    To say that because the cover of a book has a being that could very well be a Karken, on it and a game that has a rift that opens to the plane of water that appears to have a Kraken in it,  it is ripping it off is stupid. Aion has rifts, does that mean that Aion is ripping off on Rifts as well? Or is Rift stealing from Aion?

    OMG the world is in peril!!! That is the single bases for oh MOST games. And almost ALL RPGs. The only thing i see that they have in common are rifts and the elements. And neither of these things can truly be trademarked. Now had Regulous and the BloodStorm been mentioned in Rifts I would think more on that Rift: Planes of Telara was taking something from them. Rifts has many factions and a lot of tech and aliens and none of that is in Rift: Planes of Telara (formerly called Heroes of Telara).

    Onto the fact that until recently (April 26, 2010) Rift: Planes of Telara was known as Heroes of Telara. They changed their name because the rifts in the game was were most of the game focused around. So the lore and story that they had prior to the name change is the same. So the rifts were in the game then and just decided to change the name because they felt that if they called everyone Heroes then no one is special. (I am paraphrasing from podcast, dev interviews and Q&As that I have read on Rift: Planes of Telara)

  • HornitosHornitos Member Posts: 38

    I have most of the original Palladium Rifts books.  Rfit: Planes of Telara doesn't seem to have anything in common other than the concept of a 'rfit' opening and some baddies coming out of it.

    The Rifts world created by Palladium has a LOT of technology.  They had massive powered armor suits called Glitterboys and used weapons like rail guns and particle beams (much like FASA's Battlemechs :p)  They had some crazy drugged up classes called Juicers, cybernetic augmentations etc. - actually it's too bad the Palladium world wasn't used as the basis for an MMOG.

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,150

    They didn't "fail" with the lawsuit.  It was thrown out because the place they filed the suit didn't have jurisdiction.  That is different.  They could refile it elsewhere.  The judge didn't judge the merits of the case. .. just said. . wrong place to file it.  that was the last I heard anyway.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415

    Originally posted by Aethaeryn

    They didn't "fail" with the lawsuit.  It was thrown out because the place they filed the suit didn't have jurisdiction.  That is different.  They could refile it elsewhere.  The judge didn't judge the merits of the case. .. just said. . wrong place to file it.  that was the last I heard anyway.

    Do some more searching.  That was several weeks ago, both parties just filed to have the case dismissed. *generally* that means a settlement of some sort was reached, but given the verbiage submitted in the dismissal request, i dont think anything was paid out.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,150

    Originally posted by Hrimnir

    Originally posted by Aethaeryn

    They didn't "fail" with the lawsuit.  It was thrown out because the place they filed the suit didn't have jurisdiction.  That is different.  They could refile it elsewhere.  The judge didn't judge the merits of the case. .. just said. . wrong place to file it.  that was the last I heard anyway.

    Do some more searching.  That was several weeks ago, both parties just filed to have the case dismissed. *generally* that means a settlement of some sort was reached, but given the verbiage submitted in the dismissal request, i dont think anything was paid out.

    Ah thanks.  I just hate when people suggest something has no merit because it does or does not win in court. . take the OJ trial for example.  There are many technical reasons for an outcome that does not suggest that the intent of the suit was not valid.

     

    But yes this is old news anyway.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by Aethaeryn

    Ah thanks.  I just hate when people suggest something has no merit because it does or does not win in court. . take the OJ trial for example.  There are many technical reasons for an outcome that does not suggest that the intent of the suit was not valid.

    But yes this is old news anyway.

    Agreed, courts have been known to make errors in the past...

    I think that Trion probably paid a little money to Palladium, or made some other kind of deal. The real R.I.F.T.S game is still looking for someone to turn it into a MMO, maybe Trion agreed to do it, that would have solved everything.'

    While many thing have been borrowed from Palladium it is only the name that is worse than any other game. Wow have taken more from EQ than this and same goes for EQ and Meridian 59.

    But the name was too much, they should have used another one instead.

    But I wish the luck to both companies, and I wouldn't mind a R.I.F.T.S MMO in the future, Kevin have talked about it in the long time.

  • drgrandrgran Member UncommonPosts: 192

    http://icv2.com/articles/news/18230.html

    well here is the Court information. ( that the guy in the youtube video put on)

    ASUS G74sx
    i7 quad core
    16gb ddr3 ram
    3gb ram Nvidia 560M
    240GB SSD & 750GB

  • IrishoakIrishoak Member Posts: 633

    I used to play Rifts, heck all of their games, back when we rolled dice and to be honest both of them rip off fantasy/sci-fi staples. From what I remember, asides from somehow all the TMNT books getting involved, it seemed to be pretty much a sci-fi event with nazi robots trying to kick our collective asses mostly.

    It's ok to borrow, and from what I have seen of the new Rifts game it doesn't look like it's trying to emulate the old game that much. When dealing with sci-fi and fantasy some things will be similar because the genre has sort of a shared mythos we all accept. As someone said before, elves, dwarves, orcs, swords and spells, how many IPs contain that? How many "rifts" of one sort or another have you seen in sci-fi or fantasy?

  • HystericHysteric Member UncommonPosts: 51

    Donkey, are you that really idiotic dude from the Youtube video who gets all bent over the term Rift appearing in both games?

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by Hysteric

    Donkey, are you that really idiotic dude from the Youtube video who gets all bent over the term Rift appearing in both games?

    He do have a point still, imagine Morhaimes look if someone made a "War of Worldcraft"...

    It is fine to borrow stuff but stealing names is at best rude. Using ideas from Palladium RPG is fine, using the name from Rifts isn't.

  • EmhsterEmhster Member UncommonPosts: 913

    Originally posted by Loke666

    He do have a point still, imagine Morhaimes look if someone made a "War of Worldcraft"...

    It is fine to borrow stuff but stealing names is at best rude. Using ideas from Palladium RPG is fine, using the name from Rifts isn't.

    I would understand if it was a case where 'Tera' was borrowed from another game, or if a game company would use 'Guilds of Wars', as both cases do not represent a common word. Know to say Rift: Planes of Telara is a ripoff of Rifts is a bit of a stretch, rift being a common word especially around the concept of having 'dimension'. But we'll see how that legal case concludes.

    In the case of donkeys, he made few posts that sounded trollish against Rift: Planes of Telara within a short time window, making it clear about his own agenda. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but it's easily gets obnoxious to the other forum users.

  • grimfallgrimfall Member UncommonPosts: 1,153

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Hysteric

    Donkey, are you that really idiotic dude from the Youtube video who gets all bent over the term Rift appearing in both games?

    He do have a point still, imagine Morhaimes look if someone made a "War of Worldcraft"...

    It is fine to borrow stuff but stealing names is at best rude. Using ideas from Palladium RPG is fine, using the name from Rifts isn't.

    Actually he doesn't have a good point.  Just because a company puts a word in the name of their product doesn't precluded every other company in the world (or country in this case) from using the same word.

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,908

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Hysteric

    Donkey, are you that really idiotic dude from the Youtube video who gets all bent over the term Rift appearing in both games?

    He do have a point still, imagine Morhaimes look if someone made a "War of Worldcraft"...

    It is fine to borrow stuff but stealing names is at best rude. Using ideas from Palladium RPG is fine, using the name from Rifts isn't.

     

    No Loke, as has been said to you repeatedly, he dosent.

    This is  the same as if GW had gone after Blizz for WoW, based on their theft from the Warhammer IP, or WotC had gone after BioWare for the obvious thefts in tone, content, and spirit of D&D in Dragon Age (both use words from the titles of their 'inspiration' as well, you will notice). Neither did you will notice, because neither are money grubbing vultures like Seimbedia with blatantly failing IPs. They understood how they are clearly trading in common ideas and concepts, and words for that matter, and such actions would have been ridiculous.

    The only people who argue in favour of Palladium's stupid claim are those too ignorant of one or both of the IPs to make an informed point.

    Plus, imo ofc, Rifts is one of the worst PnP RPGs I have ever played.

  • IrishoakIrishoak Member Posts: 633

    GW already went after Blizz for Warcraft and Starcraft, long ago. Done and settled. Nowadays they would have went after them harder and fought longer, GW is creepy about their IP, almost tot he point of Edge creepy.

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,908

    Originally posted by Irishoak

    GW already went after Blizz for Warcraft and Starcraft, long ago. Done and settled. Nowadays they would have went after them harder and fought longer, GW is creepy about their IP, almost tot he point of Edge creepy.

     

     

    Fair point.

    Though, tbh, the fact that Blizz paid them an out of court settlement obviously meant they had a case, as I think we all know anyhow.

Sign In or Register to comment.