You know what interests me the most about that pic. It's not whether there's 50 or 100 characters at any given time to cause lag in an alpha build of an event held remotely oversees that shared bandwidth with a bunch of other games. No it's the fact that each of those characters has quite a unique look to them.
You know what interests me the most about that pic. It's not whether there's 50 or 100 characters at any given time to cause lag in an alpha build of an event held remotely oversees that shared bandwidth with a bunch of other games. No it's the fact that each of those characters has quite a unique look to them.
Yeah, that's what I like about GW2. It's really the simple things, like being able to dye each piece of armor in 3 different colours really brings a whole new level to character customization and making yourself look like an individual, in the massively multiplayer online world. Sure no game will top the level of customization found in APB, but it's just the simple things that make a world of difference.
I wonder if they'll have customizable Guild capes?
Back on the topic of WvWvW... I wonder if the actual World map would show how much influence each particular server has over the land. Kinda like in the turn-based map of the Total War series, where the influence from all the cities & towns you've conquered are reprensented by your colour. Would be great in GW2, if same thing applied to every keep, mine & lumberyard you've captured.
It is closer to 50 than 100 people on screen casting causing video lag.
blah, blah, bitch, moan....
As I said before, you can tell yourself whatever you want but the video speaks for itself, massive video lag when around 50 people in a concentrated area spam spells.
...
Just like Robert says, there's definitely about 50 players in that farewell video. ^_^
I counted about 73 in the picture shown not including the animals running around. Do you have a full picture? One that doesn't have people only half showing on either side? Maybe zoomed out a bit so that we can see everyone?
Thanks for link to article, Avery. Everything I read about GW2 just whets my appetite. Nice to know they've been making it since 2007; I knew it was years ago I first heard about GW2, but wasn't sure when, nor how long I'd been waiting expectantly for this game.
Reading the to-and-fro arguments is pretty depressing, actually. It seems like neither "side" wants to listen to the other and try to understand their point of view. Seems to boil down to forum aggression and competitiveness rather than a meaningful exchange of ideas. Shame.
I think it's safe to say that there is one person in this thread who can't count.
Everyone who has watched the video to the point where the spells were cast sees clearly that it's about 100 people gathered there. Except one person. Shrug.
I think it's also safe to say that still claiming that it is around 50 persons when every reasonable person that can count sees that it's far more serves no other purpose than to derail the topic into a senseless flame war again. It's trolling, simply put, designed to evoke a reaction of other posters and to put a lot of noise into each constructive thread about GW2.
For everyone else who has seen the video unbiased, it's evident that GW2 is already holding up well for even a demo stage with large numbers of people gathered together, the only moment of serious lag kicking in in all the footage around, when 100+ people and their pets are gathered around within 10-20m, and massive spellcasting is being done.
With the amount of time that is still there for optimisation and finetuning until launch - especially needed for the mass scale World vs World PvP, this is a promising sign indeed.
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
I counted about 73 in the picture shown not including the animals running around. Do you have a full picture? One that doesn't have people only half showing on either side? Maybe zoomed out a bit so that we can see everyone?
Better yet, here's the Gamescom farewell video, the same happening where that screenshot was taken from.
At 4:00 you see the player stepping back to take in the whole group, at 6:55 they all start casting spells, that's when you'll also notice the lag.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You know what interests me the most about that pic. It's not whether there's 50 or 100 characters at any given time to cause lag in an alpha build of an event held remotely oversees that shared bandwidth with a bunch of other games. No it's the fact that each of those characters has quite a unique look to them.
I agree, especially since it's low level armor, but even when a lot of characters have the same armor, the choice in dyes makes the armor distinct from each other anyway.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You know what interests me the most about that pic. It's not whether there's 50 or 100 characters at any given time to cause lag in an alpha build of an event held remotely oversees that shared bandwidth with a bunch of other games. No it's the fact that each of those characters has quite a unique look to them.
Yeah, that's what I like about GW2. It's really the simple things, like being able to dye each piece of armor in 3 different colours really brings a whole new level to character customization and making yourself look like an individual, in the massively multiplayer online world. Sure no game will top the level of customization found in APB, but it's just the simple things that make a world of difference.
I wonder if they'll have customizable Guild capes?
I'd be very surprised if there were no customizable guild capes since that was in the original from the beginning.
Sorry fellas dropping down to below 10fps for a long period of time is considered massive video lag.
I suggest people take a very objective approach to the footage. I remember when the video lag was first pointed out by me, people watched the video over and over and were still in denial, while the more objective people saw it clearly.
It's amazing how biases can augment one's perception so drastically.
Hey when they pointed out that it was 100+ players much more than you said. You think you would have realized that was mr bias . But I guess not oh well hopeful-thinking.
But ill agree with you they do need to make sure that a 300 person battle plays well. I think options like daoc should be noted (decress/turn off spell effects, and other sliders seen in other mmos). They very well may be using a distance / graphics scaling code that is not very effective when 100+ people sit on each other. But i doubt in pvp that many people will sit on each other unless there is a follow command (even then everyone breaks to fight , aoes are bad).
But it is a valid point that the game must work massive pvp.
Quotes from RD from this thread,
"The demo itself seemed to struggle when some players gathered together and spammed spells with no pvp involved,"
"As we saw in the demo when players were away from mobs and just spamming spells in clumped spots the fps dropped down to 10 or less for good amounts of time. "
"There were at most 50 people in that clump, and the game was already suffering from severe video lag. "
Just think robert as long as you stick to playing TOR you'll never have to be around more than 4 other players. Lucky for you.
Good points on this from jezvin,
"Video lag in large scale PvP? omg I have to lower the graphics so I don't get lag? O wait I remeber I'm a pvper I already did that no lag gg."
From mumbojumbo,
"I'm most surprised by this as there appears to be a lot of confidence (inferred) from these statements that ArenaNet really are intending to put the MMO back into mmorpg. That's not just on the social philosophy but the technology underpinning it. It's a bold claim and I'm very keen to see it in practise not just in theory as it is fundamental to the game."
Honeslty this is what sounds cool about GW2 , they are not just making and morpg , they are attempting to make a mmorpg, which many recent mmorpgs just lack the massive.
Jezvins point about daoc are rather correct, for the most part there was no/little lag/lat, however, witht he 600-700+ fights there was major issues w/o execption. And the 400+ would give you bits of lag. Even also has had poitns where 100 people ona screen is super lag , and other times where 400 is running fine. Its really about how they have their graphic and effect code and scaling code set up, as well as, the network code (king). But its been done 10 years ago successfully. So if a new team wanted to do its its more than possible with today's technology.
An additional point: the area this was conducted at was not a pvp or massive encounter area, sometiems network code and resources are unevenly divided by location. This may or may not be the case, but its worth noting. (However, i feel its unlikely)
But do look at that in alpha stage , super impressive and not recognizing that is sad, however, into mid closed beta (depending on length, a few months, 4ish, before release) if the lag is still there i will complian about massive pvp lag worries (a lot). But know that i can normally play the game fine. Below is the video and its impressive not worrisome.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I counted about 73 in the picture shown not including the animals running around. Do you have a full picture? One that doesn't have people only half showing on either side? Maybe zoomed out a bit so that we can see everyone?
Better yet, here's the Gamescom farewell video, the same happening where that screenshot was taken from.
At 4:00 you see the player stepping back to take in the whole group, at 6:55 they all start casting spells, that's when you'll also notice the lag.
Okay thanks for the link cyphers, I previously saw I different vid from a different perspective and this vid just cleared up my fears. First of all... Robert... you're nothing but a troll, because that vid evidentally shows framerate drops not latency. If it was latency then that whole vid would have been an utter lagfest, due to the close proximity of all the players throughout the entire vid. However the framerate only drops slightly when the majority of players were in view and dropped immensely when you could see them using their spells and do you know why? It's because the PC's cpu and graphics card are struggling to process and render all the crap that is on screen.
All you need to do is go to 7:55, to see the drastic differences between looking at the spell casting and not looking at the spell casting. Simple.
I don't really expect RobertDick to accept what I've just said, since he's nothing but an Internet troll but at least the majority of people will see sense. As for me, when this game comes out I'll adjust my graphics card appropriately to combat the framerate drops. Looking to get a Radeon HD 5570 (low profile) to replace my current shit Radeon HD 4350 (low profile), unless someone knows of a superior low profile graphics card for £90 or less.
But ill agree with you they do need to make sure that a 300 person battle plays well. I think options like daoc should be noted (decress/turn off spell effects, and other sliders seen in other mmos). They very well may be using a distance / graphics scaling code that is not very effective when 100+ people sit on each other. But i doubt in pvp that many people will sit on each other unless there is a follow command (even then everyone breaks to fight , aoes are bad).
I at least hope there's a setting to decrease the particle effects, because that's the main thing that affects the FPS during spell casting.
But ill agree with you they do need to make sure that a 300 person battle plays well. I think options like daoc should be noted (decress/turn off spell effects, and other sliders seen in other mmos). They very well may be using a distance / graphics scaling code that is not very effective when 100+ people sit on each other. But i doubt in pvp that many people will sit on each other unless there is a follow command (even then everyone breaks to fight , aoes are bad).
I at least hope there's a setting to decrease the particle effects, because that's the main thing that affects the FPS during spell casting.
Yeah like i said daoc did this 7-8 years ago they should be able to now. Lets hope.
Acctually it looks like their aoe spells are not just particles so they are going to have to scale the aeos abilities down also (much like they would with a model) Along with the particles. Pain but honestly i think i counted 12 twisters , and way too much fire.
Also anyone notice how walking through grass, fields moves the corn/grass liek aside. Thats pretty cool.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Ok I hate that word video lag, call it what it is a frame rate drop. The word lag has become to ambiguous.
I think it is hilarious people are bringin up latency and frame rate drop on a game that is still in a internal alpha test. This stuff won't be addressed and even possible be fixed until atleast closed beta. Not to mention most of this stuff gets fixed when they start doing stress tests of the game. We also have no view of the world vs. world area and how scenarios play out in relationship to population movement.
This is only half the problem anyways with mass pvp. We don't know what counter measures Anet is putting in place to controll focus fire, if they are. since these mass pvp maps decrease in fun the more people you add due to focus fire. eventually it turns into people on both sides getting focus fired and being oneshot if you add to many people. being oneshot is the most unfun thing you can have in a game; I actually think it is one of the other main reasons why really large scale pvp hasn't happened ontop of latency and framerate issues. As far as I know the only hints of controlling Focus fire is the dodge roll and the possibility of dodging every attack in the game.
Plainly it is to early to tell what is going to happen with any of this, there isn't enough data to form a conclusion on. There isn't even enough data for Anet to adress the problem yet.
Ok I hate that word video lag, call it what it is a frame rate drop. The word lag has become to ambiguous.
...
This is only half the problem anyways with mass pvp. We don't know what counter measures Anet is putting in place to controll focus fire, if they are. since these mass pvp maps decrease in fun the more people you add due to focus fire. eventually it turns into people on both sides getting focus fired and being oneshot if you add to many people. being oneshot is the most unfun thing you can have in a game; I actually think it is one of the other main reasons why really large scale pvp hasn't happened ontop of latency and framerate issues. As far as I know the only hints of controlling Focus fire is the dodge roll and the possibility of dodging every attack in the game.
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You're right there, framerate drop is the more appropriate term and I'll edit my post accordingly.
As for the focus fire issue, I doubt there's even a way to combat that because if, let's say, 10 Eles all attack the same player and said player doesn't dodge, then you can expect the player end up dead. Downed. Defeated. Whatever. So dodging is pretty much the only thing you can do, unless they do figure out a way to combat said issue during beta.
Ok I hate that word video lag, call it what it is a frame rate drop. The word lag has become to ambiguous.
...
This is only half the problem anyways with mass pvp. We don't know what counter measures Anet is putting in place to controll focus fire, if they are. since these mass pvp maps decrease in fun the more people you add due to focus fire. eventually it turns into people on both sides getting focus fired and being oneshot if you add to many people. being oneshot is the most unfun thing you can have in a game; I actually think it is one of the other main reasons why really large scale pvp hasn't happened ontop of latency and framerate issues. As far as I know the only hints of controlling Focus fire is the dodge roll and the possibility of dodging every attack in the game.
...
You're right there, framerate drop is the more appropriate term and I'll edit my post accordingly.
As for the focus fire issue, I doubt there's even a way to combat that because if, let's say, 10 Eles all attack the same player and said player doesn't dodge, then you can expect the player end up dead. Downed. Defeated. Whatever. So dodging is pretty much the only thing you can do, unless they do figure out a way to combat said issue during beta.
well i have no problem with focused fire obliterating a single target fast, i mean would you expect 5 anti tank missiles being shot at a tank to wipe it off the face of this earth?(unless they missed or the target moved out of the way etc) i understand there are implications in pvp but it would be a serious drop in realism that would lessen how great this game can be.
that aside a single player going down fast isnt a problem in this game because if he was performing a crucial role then there is more than likely someone in their group that is more than capable of filling in for him untill he can be revived so i realy dont see much of a problem here at all
Ok I hate that word video lag, call it what it is a frame rate drop. The word lag has become to ambiguous.
...
This is only half the problem anyways with mass pvp. We don't know what counter measures Anet is putting in place to controll focus fire, if they are. since these mass pvp maps decrease in fun the more people you add due to focus fire. eventually it turns into people on both sides getting focus fired and being oneshot if you add to many people. being oneshot is the most unfun thing you can have in a game; I actually think it is one of the other main reasons why really large scale pvp hasn't happened ontop of latency and framerate issues. As far as I know the only hints of controlling Focus fire is the dodge roll and the possibility of dodging every attack in the game.
...
You're right there, framerate drop is the more appropriate term and I'll edit my post accordingly.
As for the focus fire issue, I doubt there's even a way to combat that because if, let's say, 10 Eles all attack the same player and said player doesn't dodge, then you can expect the player end up dead. Downed. Defeated. Whatever. So dodging is pretty much the only thing you can do, unless they do figure out a way to combat said issue during beta.
Focus fire I assume is remedied by defensive skills (I.E. Fire Ward against 8 Fireballs) and actively dodging. Plus we do not yet know what kind of other classes protection skills will bring to the table. There are just a lot of variables.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
well i have no problem with focused fire obliterating a single target fast, i mean would you expect 5 anti tank missiles being shot at a tank to wipe it off the face of this earth?(unless they missed or the target moved out of the way etc) i understand there are implications in pvp but it would be a serious drop in realism that would lessen how great this game can be.
GW had some pretty nifty spells to killl off focused fire spikes.
In the early days after launch there was a trend of spiking air elementalist groups in arena battles, but protection wards that reduce any incoming damage to a 10% cap and spells like backfire were pretty effective to reduce those specialised spike teams to a minor threat.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
GW had some pretty nifty spells to killl off focused fire spikes.
In the early days after launch there was a trend of spiking air elementalist groups in arena battles, but protection wards that reduce any incoming damage to a 10% cap and spells like backfire were pretty effective to reduce those specialised spike teams to a minor threat.
And likely the new Traits would be able to work like protection wards, since I've even heard of an Elementalist trait that prevents knockback attacks. So who knows oh the kind of possibilities for PvP battles, because right now it can be anyone's guess.
GW had some pretty nifty spells to killl off focused fire spikes.
In the early days after launch there was a trend of spiking air elementalist groups in arena battles, but protection wards that reduce any incoming damage to a 10% cap and spells like backfire were pretty effective to reduce those specialised spike teams to a minor threat.
And likely the new Traits would be able to work like protection wards, since I've even heard of an Elementalist trait that prevents knockback attacks. So who knows oh the kind of possibilities for PvP battles, because right now it can be anyone's guess.
please note that my theoretical situation had no protection around the target and is assumeing massive amounts of dammage via normal damage from 10+ sources.
i am aware of the defensive wards and defensive stuff in general that helps mitigate dmg and as that makes sense in the games world and lore have no problem with that at all. my only problem was with the idea of removeing damage spikes from a lot of people attacking a target at once from the realms of possibility would be an immersion breaker.
and you are right it realy is anyones guess about that cause we lack knowledge of 4 classes among many other things so we will have to wait and see.
Originally posted by bazak Originally posted by Master10K
Originally posted by cyphers
GW had some pretty nifty spells to killl off focused fire spikes. In the early days after launch there was a trend of spiking air elementalist groups in arena battles, but protection wards that reduce any incoming damage to a 10% cap and spells like backfire were pretty effective to reduce those specialised spike teams to a minor threat.
And likely the new Traits would be able to work like protection wards, since I've even heard of an Elementalist trait that prevents knockback attacks. So who knows oh the kind of possibilities for PvP battles, because right now it can be anyone's guess. please note that my theoretical situation had no protection around the target and is assumeing massive amounts of dammage via normal damage from 10+ sources.
i am aware of the defensive wards and defensive stuff in general that helps mitigate dmg and as that makes sense in the games world and lore have no problem with that at all. my only problem was with the idea of removeing damage spikes from a lot of people attacking a target at once from the realms of possibility would be an immersion breaker. and you are right it realy is anyones guess about that cause we lack knowledge of 4 classes among many other things so we will have to wait and see.
Since we know many of the damage effects are directional, and going with your hypothetical situation where there is no protection and the guy is caught off guard, there are other ways to deal with it.
For one, a warrior that is more aware, could run into the missile path and take the ranged damage. Any melee damage is still the spike target's to deal with.
Another way would be to just let the unawares guy go into downed state. Now that your team knows the enemy is focus firing, the wars could set up defensive banners while the eles throw out defensive spells/buffs while the rangers swap to defensive pets, and a necro in death shroud revives the downed guy (shroud will prolong his life while working on reviving).
And those are tactics just using the known classes and skill sets.
I'm thinking that the downed mechanic will play a large role in deterring the spike meta, not only do you have to spike a target once to get him downed, you would have to spike him a second time to actually kill him. And as we saw in the demo, the powerful spike skills have a long recharge, so consecutive spikes would be really difficult to achieve. Not to mention that spiking wouldn't be sustainable in a long battle given that energy is now a long-term resource rather than a fast recharge.
My comment wasn't really about organized team focus fire. the problem with this large scale pvp is if you get the group sizes large enough everyone is constantly being focused fired due to how large the fight is. you can almost guarantee everyone is always getting targeted by atleast 4 people with large scale pvp, and this number can grow fast. we are talking everyone getting spiked without any coordination, because the team size is so large it is to be expected. that is the problem with large scale pvp, the zerg scenario. even if you are good you will be mowed down. this is something they will have to address for large open world fights to work. Blizzard tried to do it with siege equipment, tanacity for wintergrasp, and making healers really overpowered where you couldn't solo one. none of this worked and created problems. It is a very real problem in order for this large scale pvp to work.
It will unfortunately affect organized small scale pvp as well. although they may come up with something that scales well with both small and large scale groups. I think they are eventually going to create a seperate balance system for W vs. W from the current PVE system they are using now in my opinion.
well, if a team 'organises' everyone enough to get a big enough zerg onto one objective then they're going to win that fight. It's just how it is. You can't expect some godlike buff for the 3 guys standing around defending. However they will lose a lot of ground zerging because every other objective will then be taken!
It was like this in alliance battles, you could never beat a zerg (well, without a good team dug in at an advantageous position, holding the bridge on the end luxon and kurzick maps with 4 rangers is particularly easy with good players) , but you can quite easily win the game if the enemy zergs.
Since we know many of the damage effects are directional, and going with your hypothetical situation where there is no protection and the guy is caught off guard, there are other ways to deal with it.
For one, a warrior that is more aware, could run into the missile path and take the ranged damage. Any melee damage is still the spike target's to deal with.
Another way would be to just let the unawares guy go into downed state. Now that your team knows the enemy is focus firing, the wars could set up defensive banners while the eles throw out defensive spells/buffs while the rangers swap to defensive pets, and a necro in death shroud revives the downed guy (shroud will prolong his life while working on reviving).
And those are tactics just using the known classes and skill sets.
I'm thinking that the downed mechanic will play a large role in deterring the spike meta, not only do you have to spike a target once to get him downed, you would have to spike him a second time to actually kill him. And as we saw in the demo, the powerful spike skills have a long recharge, so consecutive spikes would be really difficult to achieve. Not to mention that spiking wouldn't be sustainable in a long battle given that energy is now a long-term resource rather than a fast recharge.
arg again your just overcomplicating my scenario it is a very simple base scenario 10 guys vs 1 the one guy goes bye bye its as simple as that. there is no team for said one guy nor did i ever say there was therefore no banners he will simply go into a downed state and then be taken down especialy considering that if the whole team of 10 eles actualy has some skill their power will be multiplied exponentialy through the use of tactics easily blocking off anything a single person can do (one person has a large limit on what kind of tactics they can use especialy in a downed state).
now please stop arguing on a pointless topic in a thread about world size where this is so obviously off topic. not to be rude but you are adding way to much stuff on to my simple scenario and i understand that your scenarios are also plausible but that is not why i posted what i did i just wanted to state that a completely unprotected guy with no team mates would be obliterated by a 10 man team and that it would almost ruin the game for me if they made it otherwise because on a large expanse of flat terrain with no nearby objects its just not plausible for the lone player to win. now can we move on please?
Comments
You know what interests me the most about that pic. It's not whether there's 50 or 100 characters at any given time to cause lag in an alpha build of an event held remotely oversees that shared bandwidth with a bunch of other games. No it's the fact that each of those characters has quite a unique look to them.
Actually, know what - RobertDinh would you mind being on a podcast I do from time to time?
It would be one I would make available here, in it's raw form.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
Yeah, that's what I like about GW2. It's really the simple things, like being able to dye each piece of armor in 3 different colours really brings a whole new level to character customization and making yourself look like an individual, in the massively multiplayer online world. Sure no game will top the level of customization found in APB, but it's just the simple things that make a world of difference.
I wonder if they'll have customizable Guild capes?
Back on the topic of WvWvW... I wonder if the actual World map would show how much influence each particular server has over the land. Kinda like in the turn-based map of the Total War series, where the influence from all the cities & towns you've conquered are reprensented by your colour. Would be great in GW2, if same thing applied to every keep, mine & lumberyard you've captured.
I counted about 73 in the picture shown not including the animals running around. Do you have a full picture? One that doesn't have people only half showing on either side? Maybe zoomed out a bit so that we can see everyone?
Thanks for link to article, Avery. Everything I read about GW2 just whets my appetite. Nice to know they've been making it since 2007; I knew it was years ago I first heard about GW2, but wasn't sure when, nor how long I'd been waiting expectantly for this game.
Reading the to-and-fro arguments is pretty depressing, actually. It seems like neither "side" wants to listen to the other and try to understand their point of view. Seems to boil down to forum aggression and competitiveness rather than a meaningful exchange of ideas. Shame.
I think it's safe to say that there is one person in this thread who can't count.
Everyone who has watched the video to the point where the spells were cast sees clearly that it's about 100 people gathered there. Except one person. Shrug.
I think it's also safe to say that still claiming that it is around 50 persons when every reasonable person that can count sees that it's far more serves no other purpose than to derail the topic into a senseless flame war again. It's trolling, simply put, designed to evoke a reaction of other posters and to put a lot of noise into each constructive thread about GW2.
For everyone else who has seen the video unbiased, it's evident that GW2 is already holding up well for even a demo stage with large numbers of people gathered together, the only moment of serious lag kicking in in all the footage around, when 100+ people and their pets are gathered around within 10-20m, and massive spellcasting is being done.
With the amount of time that is still there for optimisation and finetuning until launch - especially needed for the mass scale World vs World PvP, this is a promising sign indeed.
Better yet, here's the Gamescom farewell video, the same happening where that screenshot was taken from.
At 4:00 you see the player stepping back to take in the whole group, at 6:55 they all start casting spells, that's when you'll also notice the lag.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Sorry for the out-of-topic question: What comic is this and where can I see it? It seems to be really funny
Noobcomic, a must-read
I agree, especially since it's low level armor, but even when a lot of characters have the same armor, the choice in dyes makes the armor distinct from each other anyway.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'd be very surprised if there were no customizable guild capes since that was in the original from the beginning.
Hey when they pointed out that it was 100+ players much more than you said. You think you would have realized that was mr bias . But I guess not oh well hopeful-thinking.
But ill agree with you they do need to make sure that a 300 person battle plays well. I think options like daoc should be noted (decress/turn off spell effects, and other sliders seen in other mmos). They very well may be using a distance / graphics scaling code that is not very effective when 100+ people sit on each other. But i doubt in pvp that many people will sit on each other unless there is a follow command (even then everyone breaks to fight , aoes are bad).
But it is a valid point that the game must work massive pvp.
Quotes from RD from this thread,
"The demo itself seemed to struggle when some players gathered together and spammed spells with no pvp involved,"
"As we saw in the demo when players were away from mobs and just spamming spells in clumped spots the fps dropped down to 10 or less for good amounts of time. "
"There were at most 50 people in that clump, and the game was already suffering from severe video lag. "
Just think robert as long as you stick to playing TOR you'll never have to be around more than 4 other players. Lucky for you.
Good points on this from jezvin,
"Video lag in large scale PvP? omg I have to lower the graphics so I don't get lag? O wait I remeber I'm a pvper I already did that no lag gg."
From mumbojumbo,
"I'm most surprised by this as there appears to be a lot of confidence (inferred) from these statements that ArenaNet really are intending to put the MMO back into mmorpg. That's not just on the social philosophy but the technology underpinning it. It's a bold claim and I'm very keen to see it in practise not just in theory as it is fundamental to the game."
Honeslty this is what sounds cool about GW2 , they are not just making and morpg , they are attempting to make a mmorpg, which many recent mmorpgs just lack the massive.
Jezvins point about daoc are rather correct, for the most part there was no/little lag/lat, however, witht he 600-700+ fights there was major issues w/o execption. And the 400+ would give you bits of lag. Even also has had poitns where 100 people ona screen is super lag , and other times where 400 is running fine. Its really about how they have their graphic and effect code and scaling code set up, as well as, the network code (king). But its been done 10 years ago successfully. So if a new team wanted to do its its more than possible with today's technology.
An additional point: the area this was conducted at was not a pvp or massive encounter area, sometiems network code and resources are unevenly divided by location. This may or may not be the case, but its worth noting. (However, i feel its unlikely)
But do look at that in alpha stage , super impressive and not recognizing that is sad, however, into mid closed beta (depending on length, a few months, 4ish, before release) if the lag is still there i will complian about massive pvp lag worries (a lot). But know that i can normally play the game fine. Below is the video and its impressive not worrisome.
Just look - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkRdSy0KkUE
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Okay thanks for the link cyphers, I previously saw I different vid from a different perspective and this vid just cleared up my fears. First of all... Robert... you're nothing but a troll, because that vid evidentally shows framerate drops not latency. If it was latency then that whole vid would have been an utter lagfest, due to the close proximity of all the players throughout the entire vid. However the framerate only drops slightly when the majority of players were in view and dropped immensely when you could see them using their spells and do you know why? It's because the PC's cpu and graphics card are struggling to process and render all the crap that is on screen.
All you need to do is go to 7:55, to see the drastic differences between looking at the spell casting and not looking at the spell casting. Simple.
I don't really expect RobertDick to accept what I've just said, since he's nothing but an Internet troll but at least the majority of people will see sense. As for me, when this game comes out I'll adjust my graphics card appropriately to combat the framerate drops. Looking to get a Radeon HD 5570 (low profile) to replace my current shit Radeon HD 4350 (low profile), unless someone knows of a superior low profile graphics card for £90 or less.
I at least hope there's a setting to decrease the particle effects, because that's the main thing that affects the FPS during spell casting.
Yeah like i said daoc did this 7-8 years ago they should be able to now. Lets hope.
Acctually it looks like their aoe spells are not just particles so they are going to have to scale the aeos abilities down also (much like they would with a model) Along with the particles. Pain but honestly i think i counted 12 twisters , and way too much fire.
Also anyone notice how walking through grass, fields moves the corn/grass liek aside. Thats pretty cool.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Ok I hate that word video lag, call it what it is a frame rate drop. The word lag has become to ambiguous.
I think it is hilarious people are bringin up latency and frame rate drop on a game that is still in a internal alpha test. This stuff won't be addressed and even possible be fixed until atleast closed beta. Not to mention most of this stuff gets fixed when they start doing stress tests of the game. We also have no view of the world vs. world area and how scenarios play out in relationship to population movement.
This is only half the problem anyways with mass pvp. We don't know what counter measures Anet is putting in place to controll focus fire, if they are. since these mass pvp maps decrease in fun the more people you add due to focus fire. eventually it turns into people on both sides getting focus fired and being oneshot if you add to many people. being oneshot is the most unfun thing you can have in a game; I actually think it is one of the other main reasons why really large scale pvp hasn't happened ontop of latency and framerate issues. As far as I know the only hints of controlling Focus fire is the dodge roll and the possibility of dodging every attack in the game.
Plainly it is to early to tell what is going to happen with any of this, there isn't enough data to form a conclusion on. There isn't even enough data for Anet to adress the problem yet.
You're right there, framerate drop is the more appropriate term and I'll edit my post accordingly.
As for the focus fire issue, I doubt there's even a way to combat that because if, let's say, 10 Eles all attack the same player and said player doesn't dodge, then you can expect the player end up dead. Downed. Defeated. Whatever. So dodging is pretty much the only thing you can do, unless they do figure out a way to combat said issue during beta.
well i have no problem with focused fire obliterating a single target fast, i mean would you expect 5 anti tank missiles being shot at a tank to wipe it off the face of this earth?(unless they missed or the target moved out of the way etc) i understand there are implications in pvp but it would be a serious drop in realism that would lessen how great this game can be.
that aside a single player going down fast isnt a problem in this game because if he was performing a crucial role then there is more than likely someone in their group that is more than capable of filling in for him untill he can be revived so i realy dont see much of a problem here at all
Focus fire I assume is remedied by defensive skills (I.E. Fire Ward against 8 Fireballs) and actively dodging. Plus we do not yet know what kind of other classes protection skills will bring to the table. There are just a lot of variables.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
Indeed, team based spikes have always been there in every MMO game. The only way to avoid spikes is to make every skill worthless.
In gw1 you could pretty much down any caster with even just a 4 burning arrow spike from rangers.
GW had some pretty nifty spells to killl off focused fire spikes.
In the early days after launch there was a trend of spiking air elementalist groups in arena battles, but protection wards that reduce any incoming damage to a 10% cap and spells like backfire were pretty effective to reduce those specialised spike teams to a minor threat.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
And likely the new Traits would be able to work like protection wards, since I've even heard of an Elementalist trait that prevents knockback attacks. So who knows oh the kind of possibilities for PvP battles, because right now it can be anyone's guess.
please note that my theoretical situation had no protection around the target and is assumeing massive amounts of dammage via normal damage from 10+ sources.
i am aware of the defensive wards and defensive stuff in general that helps mitigate dmg and as that makes sense in the games world and lore have no problem with that at all. my only problem was with the idea of removeing damage spikes from a lot of people attacking a target at once from the realms of possibility would be an immersion breaker.
and you are right it realy is anyones guess about that cause we lack knowledge of 4 classes among many other things so we will have to wait and see.
please note that my theoretical situation had no protection around the target and is assumeing massive amounts of dammage via normal damage from 10+ sources.
i am aware of the defensive wards and defensive stuff in general that helps mitigate dmg and as that makes sense in the games world and lore have no problem with that at all. my only problem was with the idea of removeing damage spikes from a lot of people attacking a target at once from the realms of possibility would be an immersion breaker.
and you are right it realy is anyones guess about that cause we lack knowledge of 4 classes among many other things so we will have to wait and see.
Since we know many of the damage effects are directional, and going with your hypothetical situation where there is no protection and the guy is caught off guard, there are other ways to deal with it.
For one, a warrior that is more aware, could run into the missile path and take the ranged damage. Any melee damage is still the spike target's to deal with.
Another way would be to just let the unawares guy go into downed state. Now that your team knows the enemy is focus firing, the wars could set up defensive banners while the eles throw out defensive spells/buffs while the rangers swap to defensive pets, and a necro in death shroud revives the downed guy (shroud will prolong his life while working on reviving).
And those are tactics just using the known classes and skill sets.
I'm thinking that the downed mechanic will play a large role in deterring the spike meta, not only do you have to spike a target once to get him downed, you would have to spike him a second time to actually kill him. And as we saw in the demo, the powerful spike skills have a long recharge, so consecutive spikes would be really difficult to achieve. Not to mention that spiking wouldn't be sustainable in a long battle given that energy is now a long-term resource rather than a fast recharge.
My comment wasn't really about organized team focus fire. the problem with this large scale pvp is if you get the group sizes large enough everyone is constantly being focused fired due to how large the fight is. you can almost guarantee everyone is always getting targeted by atleast 4 people with large scale pvp, and this number can grow fast. we are talking everyone getting spiked without any coordination, because the team size is so large it is to be expected. that is the problem with large scale pvp, the zerg scenario. even if you are good you will be mowed down. this is something they will have to address for large open world fights to work. Blizzard tried to do it with siege equipment, tanacity for wintergrasp, and making healers really overpowered where you couldn't solo one. none of this worked and created problems. It is a very real problem in order for this large scale pvp to work.
It will unfortunately affect organized small scale pvp as well. although they may come up with something that scales well with both small and large scale groups. I think they are eventually going to create a seperate balance system for W vs. W from the current PVE system they are using now in my opinion.
well, if a team 'organises' everyone enough to get a big enough zerg onto one objective then they're going to win that fight. It's just how it is. You can't expect some godlike buff for the 3 guys standing around defending. However they will lose a lot of ground zerging because every other objective will then be taken!
It was like this in alliance battles, you could never beat a zerg (well, without a good team dug in at an advantageous position, holding the bridge on the end luxon and kurzick maps with 4 rangers is particularly easy with good players) , but you can quite easily win the game if the enemy zergs.
arg again your just overcomplicating my scenario it is a very simple base scenario 10 guys vs 1 the one guy goes bye bye its as simple as that. there is no team for said one guy nor did i ever say there was therefore no banners he will simply go into a downed state and then be taken down especialy considering that if the whole team of 10 eles actualy has some skill their power will be multiplied exponentialy through the use of tactics easily blocking off anything a single person can do (one person has a large limit on what kind of tactics they can use especialy in a downed state).
now please stop arguing on a pointless topic in a thread about world size where this is so obviously off topic. not to be rude but you are adding way to much stuff on to my simple scenario and i understand that your scenarios are also plausible but that is not why i posted what i did i just wanted to state that a completely unprotected guy with no team mates would be obliterated by a 10 man team and that it would almost ruin the game for me if they made it otherwise because on a large expanse of flat terrain with no nearby objects its just not plausible for the lone player to win. now can we move on please?