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Undead Labs: Current MMOs are "barely even games"
ThomasN7
87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690
Link: http://www.massively.com/2010/11/03/undead-labs-current-mmos-are-barely-even-games/
[mod edit - please do not repost articles in their entirety, a short excerpt is fine]
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Comments
It sounds as if to him, MMOs can only succeed gameplay-wise on a console, or at least that's what I get from the quote.
But there's just so many things wrong in what he said...
EDIT: Reading more about his article, and it seems like he hasn't taken a look at the MMO industry for the past 2 years. Lots of PC action/skill-based MMORPGs coming out or have launched already...
Seems more like he's trying to pull a cheap publicity stunt /be controversial. But they're working on a MMO for console, not like there's any competition over there outside of FFXI.
This guy makes a great point tbh.
It's a shame MMOs are either heavily geared to nerds or are just plain shit. Only now are we really starting to see 'action' MMOs coming out and not surprisingly, they're getting condemned by the button bar club.
Some of his claims are a little iffy, but I think he's got a fair point overall. You just know he's gonna get flame-raped on these forums for saying it though...
Playing: Ableton Live 8
~ ragequitcancelsubdeletegamesmashcomputerkillself ~
Yikes.
I doubt he'll say other wise, he released his game for console, of course he have to say good thing about it.
Anyway, all this talk from the developers, I'll wait until I see the actual game to pass judgement.
I think the important thing to look at here is that it is going to be something different, something that really has potential to be good. It isn't just a rise to power but more or less this mmo will give a reason why we are doing things, to survive the zombie horde and to build a community. Sure he will get flamed but he makes good points and the pc elitsts hates hearing it. These guys have Jeff Strain and James Phinney both who worked at Blizzard and ArenaNet. They never have failed at anything they have released. This is a good thing and a win for everyone if they do it right.
Most mmo released last year , problem is they released it too soon , without enough contents .
Sorry lets take red dead redemption and GTA for example , those games are like old style MMO´s just without the levelup system . those worlds are sandbox to a degree , imagine connection all the areas together with a levelup system .
Would blow away most of the current so called new releases of mmo´s .
Now sadly i do not agree mmo´s to be played on consoles .
MMO´s are about social interactions , trough typing or teamspeak or what ever needed to get that social interaction .
For longer period of time say 4-6 hours ? or lets say 10-20 hours a week atleast .
Imagine that time holding a controller (now before saint you say we can purchase a keyboard etc )
There is another factor you forgot about console mmo´s .
Console market target short term players , the need to buy the next console game is what keeps them afloat.
MMO is a long term investment , time spend on playing a console mmo , wouldn´t suddece most console gamers.
(yes your target you talk about are those who switch from a pc to a console , that might be valid , but its not a big group)
Example how much i love wow , i cannot play it on my wii or ps3 , even if i bought a keyboard .
My consoles is just for that , gaming short time gaming , get the last release game play it or discard it . finish it within a week , then move on .
Or Maybe i am wrong and you are right , that console gamers have evolved .
I stoppped reading right about here
Undead Labs' first MMO, a zombie-themed romp through the post-apocalyptic world.
No thanks!
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
It's actually an interesting idea. But I think they are wrong to think Console is the future of the MMO.
I bet many who have Xbox 360 in their living room already have a microphone headset that one can attach to their controller. The keyboard isn't necessary.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I kind of look at this from the money side of the deal and ask, can the console give me a game that has equal mouse/keyboard action? I am just not into the controler thing, it feels so robotic to me where the mouse/keyboard feels like I am more in control. If this can be accomplished I look at the cost factor viewing PC GFX cards/upgrades and such. In short, can they deliver the amount of games on a console costing less than what I am paying via PC with m/k adapatility? If they are able to produce equal ability, this guy may have a strong point, considering the economic status of today.
I think he wants it to be true, but wants... yeah. Consoles may be easier to design for, have a huge player base and all similar consoles share the same networking front, but I see them as far from ideal for a few reasons, and this is my opinion, as a PC gamer, a MMO player and a console(s) owner.
People who play consoles will pay for DLC but not so much a monthly fee. If it's an action game especially, they have action games they play constantly with enough players playing to keep the action frantic and fast. I've never played an online shooter and thought there were too few players, usually there is always one too many, namely that asshole who just shot me in the back. There is just so much free multi-player action it's hard to charge for it.
Some folks who play consoles may not have played an MMO before, or played one seriously. The concept of paying for a game then paying every month for the same game so as to keep their "saves" and allow them to chat may seem absurd.
He goes on about design but he seems to avoid the things people do like about an MMO and the draw of it. It's almost as if he's being willfully ignorant of the good things about a MMO. Socializing, large player bases, massive worlds, lore, lewt, exploring, role playing and a sense the game world is evolving to name a few.
Control options, the complexity and the ability to actually upgrade the software.
It's fragmented, just got off work and I'm tired.
The solution, he thinks, is to skew more toward console action titles. "What if we replaced all the math with action?" he muses.
Ummm they are called mmoRPG's. Of course they are going to have math involved in them. All RPGs do. Compared to other RPGs MMO's arent that bad. They are holding their own. He obviously thinks MMO's should be geared towards action. Well then as you can see he is making an action MMO. Good for him but no need to give our poor math a hard time. MMO's left right and center are just hacking away at stats, soon most of them with just have health, mana/actions, and maybe 3 other core ones. Stats are not bad! In RPG's they can help customise your character.
This comment seemed kind of odd to me. MMO games have not been geared toward "nerds" since the days of UO and EQ. Just about every successful MMO game to be released stating with WoW has been targed at the general gaming public, the non-nerd crowd, if you will.
How do I know this? Because I'm a huge nerd.
Princeton Dictionary: nerd = "an intelligent but single-minded expert in a particular technical field or profession". In the case of gaming, this would basically translate to a hardcore gamer.
We like video games. All of my "nerd" friends fit the definition above and are looking foward to games like TERA because they are more action oriented.
I believe you may be confusing nerds with the general MMO gaming public (read: WoW players) who only got into this genre because WoW was super easy and takes no skill to play. In contrast everyone I know who played MMO games before WoW is really excited about the changes to the genre and can't wait to take more of an active role in controlling their characters.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I am thoroughly repulsed and horrified at this frame of thinking. The Elder Scrolls went into Supernova Derpdom with Oblivion being dumbed down to bedrock for Console tards, RPG's of the last 5 years have been on a steady decline, now these bastards want to retard up MMO's. I am dissapoint, and quite frightened.
I dont mind there being a nice big chasm between PC gaming and Console gaming (Constantly eroded by dual platform release, aka, Lazy devs making a console port to PC with all its limited capabilities and lack of keybindings) trying to bridge that gap is a challenge, when the console hardware is outdated and outperfromed by PC's as soon as the console hits the market, it makes it even harder to jump that chasm. Making a game for PC and the inferior, yet more stable (and easy to code for) console is a harrowing task, and I can see that developing for the console only would be an incredibly easy shortcut and provide faster production. Faster development time, system requirements already known and programmed for, play MMO from your couch, hrm, I can see a problem here, maybe this guy is also a chiropracter....
You know what, give them their MMO's, let them game from their couch's and beanbags, when E3 comes around, you will know the Console MMO crowd by the back braces and wheelchairs. Just dont give the MMO any dance animations, that would be an incredible insult.
Whats wrong with this guy, almost everything he mentions is complete shiat.
"he "loves the idea of MMOs" but isn't satisfied with the current market."
mmkk this I can agree with...
"In a recent manifesto on Undead Labs' site, Foge professes his love for console games and his puzzlement as to why MMOs haven't advanced as far: "MMOs get breaks because of their social nature, but if you really look at them closely they're barely even games. Mario 64 (nearly 15-years-old at this point) feels better than any MMO I've ever played. MMOs aren't even close to keeping up with cutting edge videogames from a gameplay or presentation perspective." The solution, he thinks, is to skew more toward console action titles. "What if we replaced all the math with action?" he muses."
While once again I agree current mmo's are bad, his solution? consoles? action? remove the math?... Derp much? Honestly his ideas are sooo bad I wouldnt know where to begin. Even mentioning consoles he lost all credibility.
Swinging around with vague, subjective terms and calling it 'no-brainer'...eh, yeah.
Reminds me of Star Vault a lot...
Oh how super original.
A game developer who claims people want "more action".
Like we never heard that one before.
MMORPGs need "slowed down" action because people have a ping to the game. If you just make everything realtime, the guy with ping 500 ms wont be able to compete with the guy with ping 200 ms anymore.
That i do know , i didn´t buy a xbox 360 for simple reason , i have a higher grade PC then a xbox who i could cook a egg on it .
Sorry games i like on the Xbox i can get on the pc later , games i like on the PS3 PSP DS or Wii aren´t available for the pc .
Well one of the reasons Xbox or microsoft scrapped tons of MMO cause it wasn´t profitable enough .
Anyway people are socialising on the Xbox already ,without having to pay a monthly fee .
So what aspect you want them to force them to pay for socialising in a game ?
Different kinds of gameplay. I'm surprised that someone like a game developer doesn't get something so basic. You don't want homogenization of every genre out there, especially not MMOs. Yeah, they have their problems (for example, the RPG part in MMORPG is nowhere to be found in almost all of them) but to argue they're bad or not even games just because they're not twitch based? Please.
well yeah hes right, mmorpgs still have a way to go gameplay wise. Fighting braindead creatures, or doing fedex quests isn't exactly gameplay rich. PvP though is more gameplay-rich however.
I know that Jeff Strain, their CEO said that he thinks MMOs like FPS games should be as popular on consoles as PC if someone makes them right.
That sounds logical to me. But I think in this case do they mean that that there is a lot o potential new MMO players for consoles but the same does not go for PC since most potential players are already playing MMOS.
I think they have a point in many ways, MMOs are more or less the same now as 10 years ago, very little have happened and there must be ways to make combat a lot more fun. Companies like this who try to reinvent the genre have the potential to make some new and really exiting things instead of the same old copies of EQ and UO.
I am not so sure that console MMOs is something for me personal, while I actually own a PS3 it has not even been on for the last year and I only used it for Guitar hero at parties and some fighting games. But it is good that someone actually understands that you just can't port a MMO to a console and assume it will be successful.
[quote] I think they have a point in many ways, MMOs are more or less the same now as 10 years ago, very little have happened and there must be ways to make combat a lot more fun. [/quote] Thats not what he said at all.
He said he wanted to make it more action - based.
Meaning the guy with the better ping should win.
for most games i've played online on my x box/playstation 3 ping has never been a problem. If ping was a problem then i wonder why the hell they made a game like MAG where you can play with 256 players on 1 server ? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAG_%28video_game%29)
now if you have crappy internet which can't even handle todays consoles thats another story but still it's your own problem not someone elses. Besides anyone who chooses to play an MMO knows they will need a decent internet connection.
"And I believe consoles are the perfect place for MMOs to make this stand."
I do not agree but i also can't disagree, games like fable if done right could be awesome mmo's however most console gamers i know tend to play different games rather then stick with one. Also a sub would most definitely be a no no for them since that means they have to give up on other games. just my 49 cents.
Well he makes an excellent point. MMO's are so far behind any other game genre in terms of actual intrigueing gameplay it is hard to question that point. Firefall, Tribes Universe, and this game might change it up a bit, but right now is a perfect time for MMO's to bridge over into the console market. They are already becoming more casual which is perfect for console players, and most consoles are now online and have the hardware to support an MMO.
Another great thing about consoles is the games have to be in a releasable state to get approval with a console. You can't throw out a piece of crap unfinished, unpolished project and expect your paying users to pay for your beta testing. It will have to come out in a solid polished state.
Most consoles now support keyboard and mouse so the difference is what really? Playing on your more comfortable couch over a computer chair?
I think the upsides far outweigh the downsides of his approach. Consoles will hold developers accountable, and can tie MMO's more into the mainstream and in a casual manner.
I believe you're reading it wrong, He says; a more action-oriented game works better on consoles not "MMOs can only succeed gameplay-wise on a console". I do believe if he said that then there would be a much larger uproar.
This is not a game.