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How to take a popular Lore IP and make a Sandbox?
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,400
How can a sandbox be made from a IP with a strong lore standpoint? Like Warcraft and LoTR?
LOTRO had middle earth, but how would something like that play out? why was it changed?
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I've wondered if you could have 2 games in one, operating side by side in the same "Universe". You'd have people doing essentially what they do in Eve; gathering, manufacturing, fighting over resources, etc. to produce all the stuff used by the people in the Theme Park to fight the respawning bosses.
So in LotR, you'd have a bunch of hobbits farming, a bunch of Dwarves mining and a bunch of humans doing a variety of things, leading to weapons, armor, buff foods, etc. used by the players who are logging to do the stuff that is happening in the LotR game that exists as it stands now. Not sure this would even be workable, especially considering that there is only one faction in LotR, but in a game like WoW, you might be able to add a sandbox or some sandbox features to feed the theme park. The sandbox profits off of the theme park and the theme park is fed by the sandbox.
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It depends how that IP plays itself out.
For instance, a sandbox Lord of the Rings game might very well be able to work after the events of the books. However, the problem there is that the story leaves things at a place that really paints things in a corner.
Elves are leaving if not all but left. Dwarves are delving deeper and not caring about the outside world and Sauron and Saruman are defeated.
So is the world that is left a world that is attractive to play in?
Or
If the game is placed during the story then having an open game allows for complete rewriting of the story. In which case is it still lord of the rings and is it something that the IP holders want to see?
If it happens before the story then none of the conflicts that make middle earth attractive (in the context of the characters and storyline) are there.
Might be fun for some just to be in middle earth but for others they might be more enamored of the war of the ring and less about hanging around lothlorien without a care in the world except hunting bears or whatnot.
However, if the IP doesn’t paint the story into a corner, if the IP is pretty open then I can see it being done. Also, with regards to warcraft, it’s Blizzard’s IP so they can write the story any way they’d like.
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Vanguard Saga of Heroes Already did something like this except without a popular Lore IP to back it up..And less than stellar story telling along with it.
Vanguard gave you a massive open world sandbox game. Filled to the brim with quests and background with different areas having entirely different stories going on. You didnt have anyone holding you hand guiding you thru the game.
Using this type of model but with a more popular or familiar and better written Lore to go along with it would win in Spades. I have a feeling Everquest Next might be going this route. I hope they do, and to me EQ is as Iconic as WOW..
i used to play midle earth roleplaying game PnP, obviously there only your imagination is your limit but to somehow translate all that into virtual world MMO sandbox style.. gah one can dream right? it wouldnt need any story of sort just the background what is already there.
craft middle earth aswhole players free to go where ever they want, explore, craft, looking for fights or just hunting some mithril deep in long forgotten cave just to be greeted by some ancient evil.
you could choose from any race there is from hobbit to uruk-hai and anything between even troll but youd turn into stone if you go in sunlight. there would be ongoing fight between the good and the bad, and who you fight for is your choise well as much as the lore allows.. might be easy as hobbit to ally himself with mordor but not so much with orc allying with good side.
able to conquer places in world for the side you following, isengard, moria, even towns like bree only to leave one footspet for both factions like mordor for evil and good guys somewhere that i cant think of now. these would not be easy tasks by no means but doable still. and lots of other stuff, imagine it and then try to aply it to MMO.
items wise there would be your standart MMO stuff but also hidden in world somesort of unique forgotten artifacts or spellbooks etc .that players can have. there would not be quest for it but maybe a hint there and another here, riddles and mysteries you to solve. comparable maybe to really epic quest line would take weeks, months, well .. heck even years to complete, these would give immense power for the player but also if used wrongly they would destroy you.
players making theyr own adventures like this but sure theres no reason that some warcamp wouldnt offer reward for 10 orc heads or elf ears. and thus gaining popularity in said faction and to be offered even more dangerous jobs like recon some orc camp deep in mordor.
faction system would pit player against player like said above control of strategic points all over world and there would not be full loot system but maybe money and some other minor stuff or just totaly artificial. no orc can use elven eguipment or hobbit uruk-hai weapons anway.
and so on..
edit. this game should be made by roleplayers for roleplayers not to shun the "progaming pvp fanatics" but from a get go a roleplaying game.
As for how it can be done you need one ingrradiant in your chosen IP, Open possabilaties. LOTRO is an example of a closed one where you have very little you can do with it without destroying the feel of the ip.
An example of an open IP where you can do anything to it is say an obscure D&D IP which generally speaking are designed for open world ideas.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Using an IP for background is easy. But for what is happening while you are playing is hard, because it is not really much of a sandbox if both sides are forced to react like they did in the books or movies.
You could make a LOTRO sandbox where everyone played good and were forced to work together in any way they want to defeat Sauron, it would still be a sandbox more or less at least since you can decide what to do even if you are threaten by evil NPCs. It wouldn't be a traditional sandbox but at least close enough.
But you can't make a sandbox where NPCs (like Gandalf and Elrond) tells you what to do, players are suppose to play them in anything resembling a sandbox.
They would react to what Sauron does or think out ways to outsmart him...
But the best way is probably just to take the background to what has happened before and let the players lose to choose which side they want to be on, or make their own sides and then let them run wild.
I think George R R Martins "A game of throne" would make an excellent sandbox game if you let the game start about where the first books starts. Let the players plot, steal the crown and go to war against eachothers.
You can still base a sandbox game off of a story/IP.
How is it accomplished? Easy
Have the setting in a predetermined part of the story like Loke said "Book 1". The story is going on as usual however at certain intervals once the "however they determine expansions/updates" point arises the whole game takes a turn with the story. I think Blizzard got this part right with Cataclysm, not the theme park part. Change the area all together however it still has the same things you can do as you did in the original or add more stuff if you want. Don't just add another area on top of the original, change everything, make it new again and do it with every change of the story.
Actually, you can keep the feel of it without destroying it. You just have to write a new chapter basically, or rather let the players write it.
It's blah many years after the events told in Tolkien's books. Elve's have left the world of men but there could logically be half breeds, not as magical as the elven folk that left but still retain some of there distant kinfolks traits. Dwarfs have known to resurface from time to time and even be exiled.
Not only that but Sauron alone wasn't the threat. The army he raised and controlled was the bulk of it. Those orc's are still out there, even the grey orcs. The mountain trolls and other creatures are still out there. With the magic done to create the grey orcs who's to say one of them didn't become more intelligent? They certainly showed signs of being more intelligent than their brethren.
One emerges and gathers the scattered orcish armies. He's bent on tearing down the world of men. The scattered settlements of the half breed elves and the surface dwelling dwarfs seek shelter and aid. They band together against this new threat. So on and so on.
It's not like it can't be done. Aside from that Tolkien didn't just stop at telling a story. He first created a world for that story to take place in. There is so much lore and history laid out that the possibilities are basically endless. So many things could have happened after the events of the lord of the rings books, it just needs a creative individual to think of them.
Remaking SWG pre-cu, THATS HOW!
Talking bout the issues..and keepin it funky.
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For the record: A Sandbox in the LOTR-universe would be really easy, even in the timeline with Sauron. You just don't make all the players fucking heroes (the biggest problem with pretty much every mmorpg).
There's always one of you in a thread like this.
Talking bout the issues..and keepin it funky.
Not all IP's are created Equal. Some, while good IP's just don't make an engaging MMO (or even PnP world).
First and most importantly an IP must be able to exist WITHOUT the main story. This can be trickier than thought of at first. But basically that world needs to be able to still be coherent and interesting without the main characters in it. Often times a book or show will have a very good story, but when you sit down to look at letting other people tell stories in it, you find that once the main story is stripped out, the world falls apart. Its places don't really seem to exist except as a place for the main characters to go do something in. (The Belgariad by david eddings is one of those story worlds). If the world can't hold together without the main characters/story, then odds are its the wrong IP to play with.
Second, once you strip out the main story, is the world all that special? While it may still be coherent, is the world without that main story still interesting? If you strip out the great story, but leave all the trappings, does the world simply become a generic genre type? If it does, you might want to consider passing it up as well.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Why? To produce a POS clone of a POS swg game?
To make money and provide jobs by creating something you love?
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