Paratus (fan that made the crappy patcher) closes thread after argueing with customer, says that MO

davmac22

Just more evidence of the mods on the MO forums randomly erasing closing threads...

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/55311-reason-mo-pvp-will-never-skill-based.html

 

 

 

 

Full thread in a pic in case they delete it

thorppes

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/55311-reason-mo-pvp-will-never-skill-based.html

Guys nerd rages over dying ingame and blames it on client hit detection...

Guy is corrected that even from west-coast america the ping is very low...

Kooteny;

'If the ping was so low, it wouldn't matter if it was client side hit detection now would it? The problem is there is no MMORPG that has server side hit detection, because it would be to much for the server to handle, even if it was a peta supercomputer (well maybe not if it was a peta supercomputer, but that would be expensive, I mean really expensive.). This is mostly due to the amount of hitboxes that are in the game on one person.



We have seen that as more people are in an area, the slower movement is updated by the server to your client aka the lagger it is. Now if you include the sider side hit detection, the amount of players in an area before the lag becomes to much to handle, is decreased by quite a bit (possibly double, if not more). This is due to more calculations that need to be done, and more data sent out to the players.



Now SV has plans to slowly add in server side checks for the hit detection, which will greatly lower the load than if it was completely server side. But still have it act like it is server side, while still having it client side. Which this will bring it up to par with what other MMOs have done, since most have server side checks on them.'

Paratus;

'I ping the server at 72ms from Canada. That's not far off instant, especially considering distance. The network code and servers need work, sure, but we don't need a north american server.'

 

See what's going on here? The person is corrected that it's not client side hit detection, it's the fact more tweeking is needed and probably just his skill level in general. It was closed because after having an offical answer from a Mod and Paratus there was nothing else to discuss because what they said wasn't an opinion it was fact.

 

Edit; the patcher is great and works fine... so why crappy patcher?

davmac22

Originally posted by thorppes

 

See what's going on here? The person is corrected that it's not client side hit detection, it's the fact more tweeking is needed and probably just his skill level in general. It was closed because after having an offical answer from a Mod and Paratus there was nothing else to discuss because what they said wasn't an opinion it was fact.

 

Closing the thread is good?  Why not keep the discussion going hoping the guy that is wrong will understand?

davmac22

Originally posted by thorppes

Edit; the patcher is great and works fine... so why crappy patcher?

 

It is the worst patcher ever made in any mmo...  Even the F2P asian mmos have better patchers...

Toferio

Originally posted by thorppes

after having an offical answer from a Mod and Paratus

Edit; the patcher is great and works fine... so why crappy patcher?

Um, and what does it matter if a mod answers? They are just another community member, knowing as much as everyone else about games code.

As for the patcher.. are you joking? It takes people 3 days to patch up the game when they buy it atm, you call that working great?

davmac22

Originally posted by Toferio

Originally posted by thorppes

after having an offical answer from a Mod and Paratus

Edit; the patcher is great and works fine... so why crappy patcher?

Um, and what does it matter if a mod answers? They are just another community member, knowing as much as everyone else about games code.

As for the patcher.. are you joking? It takes people 3 days to patch up the game when they buy it atm, you call that working great?

 

1 hour to patch a 15 meg patch.. one of the negative points on the massively.com review...

thorppes

Bundeled many of the patches into larger patches was my understanding / higher speed.

But MO doesn't need a NA server because the ping is good enough for west-coast americans to compete with europeans equally...

davmac22

Originally posted by thorppes

Bundeled many of the patches into larger patches was my understanding / higher speed.

But MO doesn't need a NA server because the ping is good enough for west-coast americans to compete with europeans equally...

 

What ping are you getting from the west coast?  Ping is everything in a FPS FFA mmo

thorppes

Originally posted by davmac22

Originally posted by thorppes

Bundeled many of the patches into larger patches was my understanding / higher speed.

But MO doesn't need a NA server because the ping is good enough for west-coast americans to compete with europeans equally...

 

What ping are you getting from the west coast?  Ping is everything in a FPS FFA mmo

I'm from Europe but the american people from my clan have never moaned about any disadvantage from playing in america. Generally americans claim 40-80 ping from east/west coast.

lathaan

nice nerd rage there - keep it going.

On the other hand, evidence that you shouldnt hit children too early and too hard.

davmac22

Originally posted by thorppes

Originally posted by davmac22

Originally posted by thorppes

Bundeled many of the patches into larger patches was my understanding / higher speed.

But MO doesn't need a NA server because the ping is good enough for west-coast americans to compete with europeans equally...

 

What ping are you getting from the west coast?  Ping is everything in a FPS FFA mmo

I'm from Europe but the american people from my clan have never moaned about any disadvantage from playing in america. Generally americans claim 40-80 ping from east/west coast.

 

40 - 80 ping from the west coast?   That is not true at all...  west coast gets about 150 - 200....

davmac22

Just ran a test coming from Louisiana...  163ms ping...  West cost would be even higher...

 

 

 

 

150ms pinging mortalonline.com...

Slapshot1188

Here is mine from Florida:

 

 

mrw0lf

Pings of 150 or so are fine for fps if the network code works well. The are a number of other problemsthat come with higher pings though, a ping of 700 is unplayable, personally I wouldn't bother with anything over 180ish you will start to notice at that point even without loss.

All of that is irrelavent though, the fact is with cshd your ping is secondary to packet manipulation and it's preyy easy to cheat. You are then totally reliant on the server checks which are performed to scrutinise your packets, the obvious problem with this is though that the more checks there are the greater the server delay and the greater the lag between clients.

It's a balancing act and much of the time I'm affraid to say devs are happy to live with a certain amount of hacking to reduce server load. The problem is long term people will expect you to maintain the same level of lag but greatly increasing the level at which cheats are looked at and this can only ever go so far before having a detrimental effect on performance.

The problem was pointed out when both DFO and MO were released there is absolutely NO WAY OUT of this simple fact. They can tweak their server detections and they can tweak their predictive code to cover it but both of these come at pretty recognisable costs.

Having said all that, being a fact, it has to be accepted if you want to play an mmofps game, because the alternative is not playing one.

davmac22

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Here is mine from Florida:

 

 

 

That looks too high, you sure you aren't downloading anything?  It shouldn't go over 300 or 400

HerculesSAS

FYI, the Mortal Online website is going to usually return a *better* ping than the game server. The webserver only services HTTP requests, and then stops after delivery. The game server is delivering information constantly, so the ping times will likely take a back seat as the server plays catchup.

davmac22

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

FYI, the Mortal Online website is going to usually return a *better* ping than the game server. The webserver only services HTTP requests, and then stops after delivery. The game server is delivering information constantly, so the ping times will likely take a back seat as the server plays catchup.

 

Didn't they change everything to TCP or is it still UDP?

Loke666

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Here is mine from Florida:

 

 

That can't be right... It would not be possible to play anything over 300 m/s at all. 

150 M/s is fine, 200 is about the limit for a game like this.

Try again but close down all your programs in the background first. You might have just been very unlucky or have a regular modem instead of broadband of course but I think something is wrong here.

The idea of having a bunch of people writing in their ping is good.¨

Just pinged it myself, 3 times: 234,117 & 177. What really sucks with that is the fact that I live in Malmö, same place as SV.

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by Loke666

 

150 M/s is fine, 200 is about the limit for a game like this.

Try again but close down all your programs in the background first. You might have just been very unlucky or have a regular modem instead of broadband of course but I think something is wrong here.

The idea of having a bunch of people writing in their ping is good.¨

Just pinged it myself, 3 times: 234,117 & 177. What really sucks with that is the fact that I live in Malmö, same place as SV.

 Perhaps it is related to the 27 hops required to reach the server?

 

 

Dunno.. I'm not an expert but that looks messy to me...

 

And of course I have broadband.. ping to google.com is 29ms.... but that's just 16 hops...

And I fully realize that distance is not the sole factor in ping.. number of hops and quality of those hops drive the latency.. in my case the number and quality of hops to the MO server in Malmo is ver bad.  Curiously when I do speedtest to a stockholm server I get a ping around 185ms...

 

Slapshot1188

FYI.. another thread is created by a customer to discuss the topic since the first one was closed...

 

..this one is also closed almost immediately:

 

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/55334-client-side-hit-detection.html#post1051111

maharet

Thorrpes you must of rode the special bus to school.  The patcher is one of the worst patches for an MMO I have ever used.  

 

Also the thread was closed because psychobilly made paratus look like an idiot.  But that shouldn't be hard to do.

davmac22

Originally posted by xxzibitt

lol

Are you guys serious? You are pinging the website and expects the website to have the same ping as the server? They pay ALOT of money for the server to have good ping all over the world. The website don't need good ping.

 

I don't know the ip to the server. Maybe someone else does? Post it and then ping it... And then stop the whine please.

 

Are you serious?

 

Pinging mortalonline.com (which is hosted in malmo, sweden) is a very good way to check out the general ping.  If you think a game server is going to have less ms pinging than a regular hosting server, you don't know what your talking about.

 

You can't say they pay ALOT of money to have low ping around the world when all of that is affected by geometry on where the server is located.  Even though both the web server and the game server are using the SAME internet backbone every other company uses... it can have less ping because they pay more?  LOL! 

 

Please use google or even wikipedia before you say something like that, no offense... 

Toferio

Paratus does not have ability to moderate any threads, you can view all who have under "View forum leaders" option at bottom of the forums. It was probably Kootenay or whatever mod parcipiated in the discussion.

paratus

I'm not going to read this entire thread, but I wanted to give a quick response here to explain how wrong and ignorant the OP is in this case.  Seriously, guys.. some of you act like a bunch of 12 year old drama queens just looking for something to argue about.

First, I'm not a forum moderator.  I don't have access to lock a thread, so the entire topic of this thread is simply false.

As for the ping times, if you're pinging the website you're not only pinging the wrong servers, you're pinging the wrong datacenter and host all together.  I ping the game servers from here in Ottawa (my ISP is Rogers Cable, for anyone wondering) in the upper 60's to low 70's.  I ping the website around 125-175ms.  Anyone with a moderate understanding of how the internet works will know that location isn't even close to the most important factor in determining network latency.  I could ping a server in europe twice as fast as I do one here on the east coast.  It's the path the data takes, not where it's physically located.  Star Vault pays a lot of money to make sure that the game servers are on one of the best backbones money can buy.

And, while this is a bit off topic, for those of you who are interested in knowing the technicalities, the launcher itself performs quite well; the slow patch installations are due to the patching engine used.  SV's well aware that it needs to be faster, though, and has plans on changing that engine in the future.  Installing from scratch will get you up to the epic patch MUCH faster now since it does simple decompression and does not need to do any differential patching.

 

PS: I don't have the authority to release any of the game server IPs, but if you run the launcher and have 5-6 bars, you're likely under the 100ms mark.

ange10

Originally posted by paratus

I'm not going to read this entire thread, but I wanted to give a quick response here to explain how wrong and ignorant the OP is in this case.  Seriously, guys.. some of you act like a bunch of 12 year old drama queens just looking for something to argue about.

First, I'm not a forum moderator.  I don't have access to lock a thread, so the entire topic of this thread is simply false.

As for the ping times, if you're pinging the website you're not only pinging the wrong servers, you're pinging the wrong datacenter and host all together.  I ping the game servers from here in Ottawa (my ISP is Rogers Cable, for anyone wondering) in the upper 60's to low 70's.  I ping the website around 125-175ms.  Anyone with a moderate understanding of how the internet works will know that location isn't even close to the most important factor in determining network latency.  I could ping a server in europe twice as fast as I do one here on the east coast.  It's the path the data takes, not where it's physically located.  Star Vault pays a lot of money to make sure that the game servers are on one of the best backbones money can buy.

And, while this is a bit off topic, for those of you who are interested in knowing the technicalities, the launcher itself performs quite well; the slow patch installations are due to the patching engine used.  SV's well aware that it needs to be faster, though, and has plans on changing that engine in the future.  Installing from scratch will get you up to the epic patch MUCH faster now since it does simple decompression and does not need to do any differential patching.

 

PS: I don't have the authority to release any of the game server IPs, but if you run the launcher and have 5-6 bars, you're likely under the 100ms mark.

Haha you would not believe how hard I was laughing, should have not said anything. im sure others would have been laughing also.

eyeswideopen

Originally posted by paratus

 PS: I don't have the authority to release any of the game server IPs, but if you run the launcher and have 5-6 bars, you're likely under the 100ms mark.

Like they're a national secret under heavy guard and must be protected at all cost. lol

I don't have an MO client as I have no interest in wasting money, but I would imagine that if anyone really wants to know the server IP, it will be in an .ini file in the game folder. If by some rare chance it isn't, a simple trace can be done while the launcher is running and connected to the server.