i am hoping that they have huge epic pvp spliced in somewhere, my favorite part of wow pvp was the 40 v 40 and the least favorite part was the small group pvp which led to too much disparity in gear and skill level. It also appears that they are going to make some attempt to eliminate the high level low level gank. When I did a pure pvp server on wow i always thought it was crazy that something was not built in to the game that only relatively similiar levels can fight each other
Not trying to make this off-topic, but how will the open world pvp work? To start with, is there even an open world? (Im terribly behind with info, since I don't follow SWTOR too closely) And if yes, will there be a PvP and PvE server? Because if they "force" PvP on everyone, I can already hear many people complaining. I do think the vast majority are PvE players who enjoy some casual, instanced PvP every once in a while. But isn't SWTOR aimed to garner to as many as possible? If so, how will they include open world PvP without scaring away a vast amount of people who do not like getting ganked while leveling? Will you be able to flag yourself for PvP? Or will there be only "zones" (which wouldn't really be open world PvP). Again, sorry to go off-topic, but I'm really not sure how they will make this one work out.
a small war zone isn't necessarily bad though since if it's only 8 vs 8 then your bound to have to use your wits and skill more likely then when its a mass scale battle.
Anyways let's hope they put in some truly epic space war zones where you can fly around in a fighter/transport/bomber like in battlefront and board the enemy flagship and take it out from the inside or something similar. star wars always has done well on that front and if they do make war zones like that then lets hope they make aleast thoset at a grand scale (50 VS 50 or something).
Not trying to make this off-topic, but how will the open world pvp work? To start with, is there even an open world? (Im terribly behind with info, since I don't follow SWTOR too closely) And if yes, will there be a PvP and PvE server? Because if they "force" PvP on everyone, I can already hear many people complaining. I do think the vast majority are PvE players who enjoy some casual, instanced PvP every once in a while. But isn't SWTOR aimed to garner to as many as possible? If so, how will they include open world PvP without scaring away a vast amount of people who do not like getting ganked while leveling? Will you be able to flag yourself for PvP? Or will there be only "zones" (which wouldn't really be open world PvP). Again, sorry to go off-topic, but I'm really not sure how they will make this one work out.
PVP
List of Warzones so far:
Alderaan
Alderaan is split into faction houses as either Sith or Republic you support and fight for one. - E3 Gamereactor June 2010
While there is no Space Combat PvP at launch it, and Co-Op, will be added at a later date - PC Gamer Oct 2010
PvP can be fought in Warzones which are specific team-vs.-team scenarios - E3 1up June 2010
Quote Rich Vogel: We will have open PvP play and we will have instances, I'll just put it that way. - E3 Massively June 2010
Warzones were presented as distinct zones that are separate from the persistent Alderaan world map. - E3 Darth Hater June 2010 (B)
Quote: We’ve explored a lot of those endgame PvP mechanics and that is another area where I think people will be excited - VG247 March 2010
Quote: Yes, we have anti-twink measures. Yes, high level players get shut out if they kill creatures too far below them. - XP Damion Schubert
Quote: We don’t support the high level character killing the low level player, but it’s safe to say that we’re going to make sure that that does not happen. - VG247 March 2010
It looks possible that Open World PvP is available in game as seen in Video (ofc it could just be a PvP Server)- Combat Dev. Vid.
Quote from James Olhen: "We're going to have open world PvP, As for the more structured PvP, I can't going into details but we will have it" - PC Gamer UK April 2010
Small amount of PvP action shown between 3 players during Dev. Video (4.00) - Designing the Darkside
Confirmed that you do NOT have to PvP in TOR, its an option if you want too - IGN Q & A
Richard Vogal during an interview said that Battlegrounds were available - Games Reactor
Loot sets also seem to be in game, possible mutliple PvP sets mentioned - Gamespot Smuggler
Servers/Hardware
Quote from James Olhen: "The number of players per server will be comparable to WoW" - PC Gamer UK April 2010
Mentioned by Sean in an Interview that they are considering that if your in Europe and want to play on a US server they will allow it - SWTOR-Station (Sean)
They are looking into seperate servers for PvP, RP etc as an option. - StarWarsMMO
For someone who is a blog writer for MMOS you are really out of touch aren't you. Since when success or failure of MMO depends upon open world RVR? if anything open world PVP games fail to attract players. The only exception is EVE but it is also successful because it gives enough oppertunities to those who are not hardcore pvp players like ability to stay in higher sector space, insurance etc.
It doesn't matter if a company spend 1 million or 100 million on a game. Open world PVP has been never been something thats one of the major selling point for MMOS.
I think your missing my point. Your making an MMORPG and you decide to introduce a PvP element to the game. I would argue the purpose of adding this feature is to attract players who have appeal to PvP. There is undeniably a large chunk of MMO players out there who like and persue PvP in MMOs. This makes your game marketable to another portion of the marketplace that it otherwise would not have attracted. Final Fantasy XI and XIV make no qualms about the fact that their game has no real PvP and as such, nobody looking for a PvP experience would consider either of those titles as a viable pruchase.
Now this being said, you have the attention of the PvP MMO player market share. These are the same people who played DAOC and Warhammer. Both of these game were built around the premise of some sort of gain or reward from PvPing, but they took different approaches. DAOC was much more focused on an open world PvP system which flourished and led to constant fighting over the control of various areas.
Warhammer on the other hand uses 2 system, an open world and an instanced-based scenario system. When confronted with 2 possible means of advancement, Warhammer players ran like cattle into the instanced versions of PvP because it was fast and convenient. This sucked the oxygen out of their Overworld combat system. People looking for fights in the overworld often struggled to find people to fight because everyone was too busy Queuing up for scenarios int he safety of their cities.
Even if you look at old school World of Warcraft before and after the intoduction of their battlegrounds you will see a similar result. Before battlegrounds there was constant fighting over area control (infamous Tauren Mill vs. Southshore blowouts), and as soon as battlegrounds came out, the overworld dried up quickly.
Most PvP players do not like instanced PvP because it is meaningless in the effect it has on the world, and frankly it gets old fighting inside the same little box all the time as it allows a very finite amount of strategy and variation. So if you are adding PvP to your MMO and you want to attract another type of player, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to use the same formula that has turned off members of this target market repeatedly over the last few years.
Thats not entirely true. The basic concept between the two is to PVP for fun, for a reason, and for a reward. Open World PvP had none of these things in WAR. Sure some of the keep sieges were fun, but I only really experienced one that had 50+ players in it. Ultimately the rewards were slim, and the victor was always the one with more players. As the factions were extremely unbalanced even from early on, it was always a one sided battle.
So in essence you took away the fun.. the reasons, and the rewards from open world PvP, and you made scenarios even, accessible, and rewarding.
There are ways apart from totally cutting out instanced PvP to encourage open world PvP. One would be, actually make the open world PvP worth something. TOR could easily do that with the amount of planets, faction control, NPC faction alignment, and so on. You could also put limits and timers on Warzones for certain areas, limit the rewards for warzones, and even integrate warzones into the Open World PvP.
Of course this is all just supposition, but in the end there is so much we don't know about the rewards for open world PvP, what areas, if any, will be contested and captured through it, and so on.
Ultimately open world PvP ONLY isn't that popular not just because games with instanced PvP don't "cater" to it, but because often times its just not fun. You can easily be outnumbered or you can easily not have enough people in a particular area to make a battle worth fighting. You get griefed a lot easier, and if the design isn't right you can be spawn camped simply if the other team wishes it. Open world PvP does have its high points though. Catering to ONLY the open world PvPers is suicide and pointless. Having the option for open world PvP and giving incentive to play it alongside the instanced PvP is the best option.
STOR has gone for graphics which are not first rate, WoW did the same. The idea is any system can run it. That worked for WoW but players now are even more sold on graphics first and not gameplay, so I am not sure it will work for STOR.
Lotro has companions which only appear in skirmishes, that works quite well but they are not PvP. I don't see issues with companions turning up in 8x8, but in 16x16 (if they have that) it could get a bit confusing.
STOR has gone for graphics which are not first rate, WoW did the same. The idea is any system can run it. That worked for WoW but players now are even more sold on graphics first and not gameplay, so I am not sure it will work for STOR.
Yeah, I'm not buying that. Besides if that were the case, TOR still looks great, you can choose to dislike the art direction but to say the graphics suck would be asinine.
Lotro has companions which only appear in skirmishes, that works quite well but they are not PvP. I don't see issues with companions turning up in 8x8, but in 16x16 (if they have that) it could get a bit confusing.
Good point. I was honestly hoping companions wouldn't play a role in PvP, so this kinda upset me. Something I'll have to deal with. I don't think they'll stop at 8 vs. 8 though. I don't expect players to move around grouped together like that at all times either. If there are multiple objective points, I figure players will spread out, try to capture/defend them. But if that isn't the case, hopefully, there is something to show you in the clutter of players and companions which is what. Have to wait and see or wait for more information at this point.
I have only one question. Dont you all feel like we have done this before? I have had access to battlegrounds, scenarios Bla bla bla for 6 years running now.
Its boring to see that this game is just another clone.. Yawn it be dead within a year...
I really feel that most of you, who find this announcement so objectionable, should just forget about SWTOR. As it seems obvious that what BioWare wants to make is not going to please you. I don't say this to offend anyone. But I really don't think your posts do much beside help you vent your frustrations. And I seriously doubt BioWare is listening.
The flip side is that your posts remind me of the petulant children I sometimes see in the Store. Who are crying and screaming because their mom's won't buy them what they want... Just my 2¢ worth. Still I don't think you want to make that impression.
This is MMORPG.com mate, you will get people complining all the time and others lavishing praise on every MMO. You are new here but you will get used to it.
Welcome on board the rollercoaster ride that this site gives you!
I did not mean STOR graphics are bad btw, just that they are not top notch and that was done on purpose I think so that the game appeals to all regardless of PC power.
well, i will skip this part of SWTOR for sure. i like open pvp in persistent zones. you call 16 vs 16 an epic-fight? epic-fights are starting somewhere at 500 vs 500 from my point of view.
i remember that they said once, that there will be open-pvp in persistent zones as well. did they cancel this feature, or am i wrong?
What game is out there that has 500 vs. 500? The most I've ever seen is 30 vs. 30, and that happened twice. I'm hoping they will still have open world pvp, but you're expectations are unrealistic if you expect to see more than 60-100 people total in any fight.
The real kicker is people like him expect these gigantic battles to run on their piece of shit Celerons and GeForce 3 TIs.
Unrealistic expectations indeed.
Not really.
Planetside had 133 vs 133 vs 133 (and even more before) player battles and that is a first person shooter.
Which can run easily on a 5 year old PC.
If a FPS can have 400 player battles which require actual aiming and such why shouldn't a RPG be able to do the same.
Hmm, well I guess I still need some more convincing because it still looks like WoW in space....of course, I like WoW so I guess that's ok but nothing revolutionary that's for sure.
Like many of us, I'm still waiting for a new MMO to do something different.
Sorry, but 8v8 is just pre-mades versus casual slaughterfests. Boring, unless they have a mechanic to only put pre-mades against each other.
Furthermore, I'm completely stumped as to how PvP can even remotely be balanced between classes. If you want to PvP, how can you NOT take a force sensitive character? All PvP is just jedi versus sith, unless they have seperate ques for non-force sensitive players.
I'll probably play the game once from the Rebel side and once from the empire side to see the 2 stories, and then go do something else.
The Warzone trailer looks... lacking. People running, people shooting, hacking and people falling over. Nothing really new or inspiring when it comes to MMO gameplay.
Sorry, but 8v8 is just pre-mades versus casual slaughterfests. Boring, unless they have a mechanic to only put pre-mades against each other.
Furthermore, I'm completely stumped as to how PvP can even remotely be balanced between classes. If you want to PvP, how can you NOT take a force sensitive character? All PvP is just jedi versus sith, unless they have seperate ques for non-force sensitive players.
I'll probably play the game once from the Rebel side and once from the empire side to see the 2 stories, and then go do something else.
What? Makes no sense what so ever. Its not hard to balance force sensitives with non-force sensitives.
well, i will skip this part of SWTOR for sure. i like open pvp in persistent zones. you call 16 vs 16 an epic-fight? epic-fights are starting somewhere at 500 vs 500 from my point of view.
i remember that they said once, that there will be open-pvp in persistent zones as well. did they cancel this feature, or am i wrong?
What game is out there that has 500 vs. 500? The most I've ever seen is 30 vs. 30, and that happened twice. I'm hoping they will still have open world pvp, but you're expectations are unrealistic if you expect to see more than 60-100 people total in any fight.
The real kicker is people like him expect these gigantic battles to run on their piece of shit Celerons and GeForce 3 TIs.
Unrealistic expectations indeed.
Not really.
Planetside had 133 vs 133 vs 133 (and even more before) player battles and that is a first person shooter.
Which can run easily on a 5 year old PC.
If a FPS can have 400 player battles which require actual aiming and such why shouldn't a RPG be able to do the same.
PS looked terrible graphically. Both the world and the character models.
Originally posted by maskedweasel Originally posted by thekid1
Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
Originally posted by nightfallrob
Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak
well, i will skip this part of SWTOR for sure. i like open pvp in persistent zones. you call 16 vs 16 an epic-fight? epic-fights are starting somewhere at 500 vs 500 from my point of view. i remember that they said once, that there will be open-pvp in persistent zones as well. did they cancel this feature, or am i wrong?
What game is out there that has 500 vs. 500? The most I've ever seen is 30 vs. 30, and that happened twice. I'm hoping they will still have open world pvp, but you're expectations are unrealistic if you expect to see more than 60-100 people total in any fight.
The real kicker is people like him expect these gigantic battles to run on their piece of shit Celerons and GeForce 3 TIs. Unrealistic expectations indeed. Not really. Planetside had 133 vs 133 vs 133 (and even more before) player battles and that is a first person shooter. Which can run easily on a 5 year old PC. If a FPS can have 400 player battles which require actual aiming and such why shouldn't a RPG be able to do the same. PS looked terrible graphically. Both the world and the character models.
Sorry, but 8v8 is just pre-mades versus casual slaughterfests. Boring, unless they have a mechanic to only put pre-mades against each other.
Furthermore, I'm completely stumped as to how PvP can even remotely be balanced between classes. If you want to PvP, how can you NOT take a force sensitive character? All PvP is just jedi versus sith, unless they have seperate ques for non-force sensitive players.
I'll probably play the game once from the Rebel side and once from the empire side to see the 2 stories, and then go do something else.
There is a story for each class and there are eight classes. The game isn't limited to just one story for each faction.
Also, as stated often, there is more than this one warzone and each will play differently and have different numbers, just like the bg's of WoW. Also, it's been stated that skill level matters. Those of a certain skill level will be matched with those of the same skill level, so pre-mades won't have that much of an impact.
Comments
I think we should jump to more conclusions before the game comes out. We don't have enough conclusion jumping.
Lots of jumping in this thread.
i am hoping that they have huge epic pvp spliced in somewhere, my favorite part of wow pvp was the 40 v 40 and the least favorite part was the small group pvp which led to too much disparity in gear and skill level. It also appears that they are going to make some attempt to eliminate the high level low level gank. When I did a pure pvp server on wow i always thought it was crazy that something was not built in to the game that only relatively similiar levels can fight each other
WoW has open world pvp and yet it's never happening. I just hope they put some meaning to it.
Not trying to make this off-topic, but how will the open world pvp work? To start with, is there even an open world? (Im terribly behind with info, since I don't follow SWTOR too closely) And if yes, will there be a PvP and PvE server? Because if they "force" PvP on everyone, I can already hear many people complaining. I do think the vast majority are PvE players who enjoy some casual, instanced PvP every once in a while. But isn't SWTOR aimed to garner to as many as possible? If so, how will they include open world PvP without scaring away a vast amount of people who do not like getting ganked while leveling? Will you be able to flag yourself for PvP? Or will there be only "zones" (which wouldn't really be open world PvP). Again, sorry to go off-topic, but I'm really not sure how they will make this one work out.
a small war zone isn't necessarily bad though since if it's only 8 vs 8 then your bound to have to use your wits and skill more likely then when its a mass scale battle.
Anyways let's hope they put in some truly epic space war zones where you can fly around in a fighter/transport/bomber like in battlefront and board the enemy flagship and take it out from the inside or something similar. star wars always has done well on that front and if they do make war zones like that then lets hope they make aleast thoset at a grand scale (50 VS 50 or something).
PVP
List of Warzones so far:
Alderaan
Alderaan is split into faction houses as either Sith or Republic you support and fight for one. - E3 Gamereactor June 2010
While there is no Space Combat PvP at launch it, and Co-Op, will be added at a later date - PC Gamer Oct 2010
PvP can be fought in Warzones which are specific team-vs.-team scenarios - E3 1up June 2010
Quote Rich Vogel: We will have open PvP play and we will have instances, I'll just put it that way. - E3 Massively June 2010
Warzones were presented as distinct zones that are separate from the persistent Alderaan world map. - E3 Darth Hater June 2010 (B)
Quote: We’ve explored a lot of those endgame PvP mechanics and that is another area where I think people will be excited - VG247 March 2010
Quote: Yes, we have anti-twink measures. Yes, high level players get shut out if they kill creatures too far below them. - XP Damion Schubert
Quote: We don’t support the high level character killing the low level player, but it’s safe to say that we’re going to make sure that that does not happen. - VG247 March 2010
It looks possible that Open World PvP is available in game as seen in Video (ofc it could just be a PvP Server)- Combat Dev. Vid.
Quote from James Olhen: "We're going to have open world PvP, As for the more structured PvP, I can't going into details but we will have it" - PC Gamer UK April 2010
Small amount of PvP action shown between 3 players during Dev. Video (4.00) - Designing the Darkside
Confirmed that you do NOT have to PvP in TOR, its an option if you want too - IGN Q & A
Richard Vogal during an interview said that Battlegrounds were available - Games Reactor
Loot sets also seem to be in game, possible mutliple PvP sets mentioned - Gamespot Smuggler
Servers/Hardware
Quote from James Olhen: "The number of players per server will be comparable to WoW" - PC Gamer UK April 2010
Mentioned by Sean in an Interview that they are considering that if your in Europe and want to play on a US server they will allow it - SWTOR-Station (Sean)
They are looking into seperate servers for PvP, RP etc as an option. - StarWarsMMO
Source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=33345
Warzones for 8vs8? Not really... a bigger arena, yes. But far from a battlefield if you ask.
BTW it has already been confirmed companions will be usable in PvP => 16vs16 but as half of is AI it doesn't really counts, does it?
In what way is 16 people a war? It's more like Scrimmage Grounds.. or tag...
Faction vs Faction - War
A place for MP PvP with objectives - Zone
Hell it could be 4v4 and it would still be a warzone.
First warzone announced is 8v8, are you assuming there aren't more?
You want 100v100, set it up. It's called world PvP.
This. This is what I was trying to say ^
In Bioware we trust!
STOR has gone for graphics which are not first rate, WoW did the same. The idea is any system can run it. That worked for WoW but players now are even more sold on graphics first and not gameplay, so I am not sure it will work for STOR.
Lotro has companions which only appear in skirmishes, that works quite well but they are not PvP. I don't see issues with companions turning up in 8x8, but in 16x16 (if they have that) it could get a bit confusing.
I have only one question. Dont you all feel like we have done this before? I have had access to battlegrounds, scenarios Bla bla bla for 6 years running now.
Its boring to see that this game is just another clone.. Yawn it be dead within a year...
Big deal so they have a instanced PvP zone.
Show me some world pvp or WOW keeps my monthly fee.
I really feel that most of you, who find this announcement so objectionable, should just forget about SWTOR. As it seems obvious that what BioWare wants to make is not going to please you. I don't say this to offend anyone. But I really don't think your posts do much beside help you vent your frustrations. And I seriously doubt BioWare is listening.
The flip side is that your posts remind me of the petulant children I sometimes see in the Store. Who are crying and screaming because their mom's won't buy them what they want... Just my 2¢ worth. Still I don't think you want to make that impression.
This is MMORPG.com mate, you will get people complining all the time and others lavishing praise on every MMO. You are new here but you will get used to it.
Welcome on board the rollercoaster ride that this site gives you!
I did not mean STOR graphics are bad btw, just that they are not top notch and that was done on purpose I think so that the game appeals to all regardless of PC power.
Not really.
Planetside had 133 vs 133 vs 133 (and even more before) player battles and that is a first person shooter.
Which can run easily on a 5 year old PC.
If a FPS can have 400 player battles which require actual aiming and such why shouldn't a RPG be able to do the same.
Hmm, well I guess I still need some more convincing because it still looks like WoW in space....of course, I like WoW so I guess that's ok but nothing revolutionary that's for sure.
Like many of us, I'm still waiting for a new MMO to do something different.
Sorry, but 8v8 is just pre-mades versus casual slaughterfests. Boring, unless they have a mechanic to only put pre-mades against each other.
Furthermore, I'm completely stumped as to how PvP can even remotely be balanced between classes. If you want to PvP, how can you NOT take a force sensitive character? All PvP is just jedi versus sith, unless they have seperate ques for non-force sensitive players.
I'll probably play the game once from the Rebel side and once from the empire side to see the 2 stories, and then go do something else.
The Warzone trailer looks... lacking. People running, people shooting, hacking and people falling over. Nothing really new or inspiring when it comes to MMO gameplay.
What? Makes no sense what so ever. Its not hard to balance force sensitives with non-force sensitives.
PS looked terrible graphically. Both the world and the character models.
What game is out there that has 500 vs. 500? The most I've ever seen is 30 vs. 30, and that happened twice. I'm hoping they will still have open world pvp, but you're expectations are unrealistic if you expect to see more than 60-100 people total in any fight.
The real kicker is people like him expect these gigantic battles to run on their piece of shit Celerons and GeForce 3 TIs.
Unrealistic expectations indeed.
Not really.
Planetside had 133 vs 133 vs 133 (and even more before) player battles and that is a first person shooter.
Which can run easily on a 5 year old PC.
If a FPS can have 400 player battles which require actual aiming and such why shouldn't a RPG be able to do the same.
PS looked terrible graphically. Both the world and the character models.
So does SW:TOR, what's your point?
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
There is a story for each class and there are eight classes. The game isn't limited to just one story for each faction.
Also, as stated often, there is more than this one warzone and each will play differently and have different numbers, just like the bg's of WoW. Also, it's been stated that skill level matters. Those of a certain skill level will be matched with those of the same skill level, so pre-mades won't have that much of an impact.