All Stats cap at 100, +10 for passive and +6 for title (only 1 stat at a time). So the cap is 110-116. There is no skill cap though, so everyone is a Jack-Of-All-Trade-Master-Of-All, meaning that you will have to grind everything to survive every situation :P
Which is ironic since many players will say "You don't need to grind everything", but then you post about how bunnyhopping (Stormblast, Shrapnel, Begone) is broken and a necessity to survive for exemple, and you are told "Grind those skills". Anyway. Try it out, there's a free trial anyway.
Yeah skill cap would make a few people leave likely. . if they degrade what they have spent a year or two grinding. . but I think it would also lead to a lot more players trying it out.
All Stats cap at 100, +10 for passive and +6 for title (only 1 stat at a time). So the cap is 110-116. There is no skill cap though, so everyone is a Jack-Of-All-Trade-Master-Of-All, meaning that you will have to grind everything to survive every situation :P
Which is ironic since many players will say "You don't need to grind everything", but then you post about how bunnyhopping (Stormblast, Shrapnel, Begone) is broken and a necessity to survive for exemple, and you are told "Grind those skills". Anyway. Try it out, there's a free trial anyway.
If you like UO, you will love Darkfall (even if like me you wish Darkfall would add pets).
You do not need to grind anything at all to have a huge amount of fun in this game. Trying to be a Jack-Of-All means that you *would* have to grind it all to be a master of all, so instead screw magic and just pick the skills Destroyer and Magekiller (which you can get rid of later to learn magic when you are rich), work up archery and 2H melee. Make some friends, and go start beating the crap out of the veteran mages, then sell them their own reagents back
There really is only a grind in Darkfall in two situations #1, you want everything, and #2, you want it all now. Try the game, make friends, and don't get sucked into the 'must grind must gring must grind' midset - it's an illusion, and very likely to result in massive wasted time when Prestige classes get added (which is very likely to be based on current selectable 'class' skills, picking one thing will make you better in that area, but 'lock out' other skills until you abandon the selection skill). If they add Paladin for example, that locks out witchcraft and necromacy spells, you will look really foolish if you grinded to 100 necro just because someone you met said you need Eye Rot to pvp. You don't - it's a great spell, but you don't need it, especailly if you have 3 buddies and you can all use bows, and he's alone ....
Yeah skill cap would make a few people leave likely. . if they degrade what they have spent a year or two grinding. . but I think it would also lead to a lot more players trying it out.
I think you guys should try to get those type of people that will leave to understand it doesn't degrade anything. It just forces players to be something, and lowers the amount of skills needed to be competitive at something. Vets still have a huge edge by being able to have more choices as to what they want to be.
Yeah skill cap would make a few people leave likely. . if they degrade what they have spent a year or two grinding. . but I think it would also lead to a lot more players trying it out.
I think you guys should try to get those type of people that will leave to understand it doesn't degrade anything. It just forces players to be something, and lowers the amount of skills needed to be competitive at something. Vets still have a huge edge by being able to have more choices as to what they want to be.
Exactly, you do as you like. You can buy a school, train some of the magic up and use it if it suits you. If you don't like it you can drop it and never use it again, or pick it up again at a later time no big deal. Its about freedom, and getting off the skill gain/loss teeter totter. Don't beleive the people who say there is one play style. Come duel and see the multitude of techniques and ideas brought into the game. Adapt into your style those that fit and leave out what doesn't.
Exactly, you do as you like. You can buy a school, train some of the magic up and use it if it suits you. If you don't like it you can drop it and never use it again, or pick it up again at a later time no big deal. Its about freedom, and getting off the skill gain/loss teeter totter. Don't beleive the people who say there is one play style. Come duel and see the multitude of techniques and ideas brought into the game. Adapt into your style those that fit and leave out what doesn't.
Exactly, you do as you like. You can buy a school, train some of the magic up and use it if it suits you. If you don't like it you can drop it and never use it again, or pick it up again at a later time no big deal. Its about freedom, and getting off the skill gain/loss teeter totter. Don't beleive the people who say there is one play style. Come duel and see the multitude of techniques and ideas brought into the game. Adapt into your style those that fit and leave out what doesn't.
Specializations (if done right) > Skill Cap
You mean prestige class. Because this is what is coming next.
Exactly, you do as you like. You can buy a school, train some of the magic up and use it if it suits you. If you don't like it you can drop it and never use it again, or pick it up again at a later time no big deal. Its about freedom, and getting off the skill gain/loss teeter totter. Don't beleive the people who say there is one play style. Come duel and see the multitude of techniques and ideas brought into the game. Adapt into your style those that fit and leave out what doesn't.
Specializations (if done right) > Skill Cap
You mean prestige class. Because this is what is coming next.
No, there are no caps in this game for skill/stats.
And thats the great problem, everybody around is almost the same, a MageFigtherArcherCrafterGatherer.
In the beginning of beta DF had soft skill cap. Also - you were unable to buy opposing schools of magic (Witchcraft / Spell Chanting, Fire / Water, etc.). DF even has skill degradation code ready. It was implemented quickly after launch, but eventually was not enabled.
Why ?
Because skill cap is just lazy way to hide the problem of unbalanced skills. It "kind of works" in games where PvP aspect is not that important.
The right way to solve the problem is to balance magic / archery / melee / heavy armor / light armor / rays / bolts / nukes / AOEs / mounted combat in such way that even limited set of skills is sufficient to compete.
No, there are no caps in this game for skill/stats.
And thats the great problem, everybody around is almost the same, a MageFigtherArcherCrafterGatherer.
In the beginning of beta DF had soft skill cap. Also - you were unable to buy opposing schools of magic (Witchcraft / Spell Chanting, Fire / Water, etc.). DF even has skill degradation code ready. It was implemented quickly after launch, but eventually was not enabled.
Why ?
Because skill cap is just lazy way to hide the problem of unbalanced skills. It "kind of works" in games where PvP aspect is not that important.
The right way to solve the problem is to balance magic / archery / melee / heavy armor / light armor / rays / bolts / nukes / AOEs / mounted combat in such way that even limited set of skills is sufficient to compete.
This makes no sense. How does a skill cap hide unbalanced skills?? If anything, it makes them ever more blatantly obvious because people can't switch to something else if what they're doing isn't working.
A skill cap would make it so that no one could be everything... people would have to fill special roles rather than being jacks of all trade. This would mean that every different role would need to be balanced. The laziness you refer to is in the design AV decided to use. By letting everyone be everything, AV is just basically saying "screw this, lets just not balance anything". So now everyone has to be everything so that they can take advantage of whatever skill is overpowered at any given time. When it eventually gets nerfed, everyone can then be whatever else is OP without losing the other skills they trained. For a new player, the idea of having to basically train up everything is extremely daunting... and frankly not worth it for the majority.
No, there are no caps in this game for skill/stats.
And thats the great problem, everybody around is almost the same, a MageFigtherArcherCrafterGatherer.
In the beginning of beta DF had soft skill cap. Also - you were unable to buy opposing schools of magic (Witchcraft / Spell Chanting, Fire / Water, etc.). DF even has skill degradation code ready. It was implemented quickly after launch, but eventually was not enabled.
Why ?
Because skill cap is just lazy way to hide the problem of unbalanced skills. It "kind of works" in games where PvP aspect is not that important.
The right way to solve the problem is to balance magic / archery / melee / heavy armor / light armor / rays / bolts / nukes / AOEs / mounted combat in such way that even limited set of skills is sufficient to compete.
This makes no sense. How does a skill cap hide unbalanced skills?? If anything, it makes them ever more blatantly obvious because people can't switch to something else if what they're doing isn't working.
A skill cap would make it so that no one could be everything... people would have to fill special roles rather than being jacks of all trade. This would mean that every different role would need to be balanced. The laziness you refer to is in the design AV decided to use. By letting everyone be everything, AV is just basically saying "screw this, lets just not balance anything". So now everyone has to be everything so that they can take advantage of whatever skill is overpowered at any given time. When it eventually gets nerfed, everyone can then be whatever else is OP without losing the other skills they trained. For a new player, the idea of having to basically train up everything is extremely daunting... and frankly not worth it for the majority.
You have a point, but why should roles or a collection of skills be balanced?
Most people play a mmo(rpg) to play with others against others. If a succesfull build is working, a lot of people will pick that build. Still every build have it flaws or it counterpart. So the team that has the best mix of builds will win in theory. There's your balance.
I never heard the Germans listen to the Allies complaining about the fact the German tanks were overpowered.
Gaming is all about learning of your mistakes, improve your tactics, work on teamplay and be flexible during combat. So don't use the balance card. Trying to enforce balance, has destroyed a lot of games.
Balance can also be achieved by altering items, instead of altering skills. For example if archery is too overpowered, implent arrow weight. A person can only carry 50 arrows. Ofc he can carry more, but where do you put 1000 arrows? He would have his hands full and can't fire his bow till he drops those 1000 arrows.
Magic too overpowered? Increase the regen time for mana. The wizard can kill most of your group with his spell, but when he's out of mana, he has to defend himself with his staff.
This makes no sense. How does a skill cap hide unbalanced skills?? If anything, it makes them ever more blatantly obvious because people can't switch to something else if what they're doing isn't working.
A skill cap would make it so that no one could be everything... people would have to fill special roles rather than being jacks of all trade. This would mean that every different role would need to be balanced. The laziness you refer to is in the design AV decided to use. By letting everyone be everything, AV is just basically saying "screw this, lets just not balance anything". So now everyone has to be everything so that they can take advantage of whatever skill is overpowered at any given time. When it eventually gets nerfed, everyone can then be whatever else is OP without losing the other skills they trained. For a new player, the idea of having to basically train up everything is extremely daunting... and frankly not worth it for the majority.
First of all - in DF you've got 300 skills. No matter how hard you try you cannot use more than 20 in single fight. So you're using "build" just by deciding what skills to put on the hotbars.
Skill cap hides problems by allowing for one-trick ponies:
"Dex warrior" from UO wasn't unbalanced in group fights - but with low ping he could defeat anyone in 1vs1 without any player skill - just by spamming attacks.
Sprinting mage from early Mortal Online did not have any chance in 1vs2, because of limited mana, and couldn't even properly loot his opponents because of limited strength - but in proper conditions he would defeat armored warrior 99% of time.
The same goes for mounted mage. Or for swimming tamers, hunting people near the lakes. Or mounted warriors knocking down players 10 times in a row. Crafters and gatherers are basically walking loot bags.
If you think that it's OK to be killed for role-playing reasons, without any chance to fight back, because you've chosen wrong build for given situation and your player skills don't matter - there are plenty of games with skill cap.
There are no cheesy, unfair tactics in DF. If some skill seems OP - you can try it yourself and usually find out that it is balanced by casting time, magic encumbrance, cooldown, shared cooldown, necessity to land the spell perfectly, cost of equipment etc.
First of all - in DF you've got 300 skills. No matter how hard you try you cannot use more than 20 in single fight. So you're using "build" just by deciding what skills to put on the hotbars.
Skill cap hides problems by allowing for one-trick ponies:
Without skill cap everyone can and will use melee, magic, archery all mixed together in every fight. Zero specialization. Boring.
This makes no sense. How does a skill cap hide unbalanced skills?? If anything, it makes them ever more blatantly obvious because people can't switch to something else if what they're doing isn't working.
A skill cap would make it so that no one could be everything... people would have to fill special roles rather than being jacks of all trade. This would mean that every different role would need to be balanced. The laziness you refer to is in the design AV decided to use. By letting everyone be everything, AV is just basically saying "screw this, lets just not balance anything". So now everyone has to be everything so that they can take advantage of whatever skill is overpowered at any given time. When it eventually gets nerfed, everyone can then be whatever else is OP without losing the other skills they trained. For a new player, the idea of having to basically train up everything is extremely daunting... and frankly not worth it for the majority.
First of all - in DF you've got 300 skills. No matter how hard you try you cannot use more than 20 in single fight. So you're using "build" just by deciding what skills to put on the hotbars.
Skill cap hides problems by allowing for one-trick ponies:
"Dex warrior" from UO wasn't unbalanced in group fights - but with low ping he could defeat anyone in 1vs1 without any player skill - just by spamming attacks.
Sprinting mage from early Mortal Online did not have any chance in 1vs2, because of limited mana, and couldn't even properly loot his opponents because of limited strength - but in proper conditions he would defeat armored warrior 99% of time.
The same goes for mounted mage. Or for swimming tamers, hunting people near the lakes. Or mounted warriors knocking down players 10 times in a row. Crafters and gatherers are basically walking loot bags.
If you think that it's OK to be killed for role-playing reasons, without any chance to fight back, because you've chosen wrong build for given situation and your player skills don't matter - there are plenty of games with skill cap.
There are no cheesy, unfair tactics in DF. If some skill seems OP - you can try it yourself and usually find out that it is balanced by casting time, magic encumbrance, cooldown, shared cooldown, necessity to land the spell perfectly, cost of equipment etc.
You cannot use everything in one battle, you right. Still, everyone can be a jack of all trade, meaning that they got the option to use all the useful skills for each roles and not raise the useless one like Frality for example. How does it make DF seem like?
I wont respond to the rest of your post because its obvious that you are more fps gamer then RPG, so there is no point to argue. Plus, you really dont see that fact as a problem like most of us do. Prestige class will fix that anyway...
Comments
Theres always been a cap on stats. There no cap on the total number of skill you can have maxed tho, if thats what u meant.
No, there are no caps in this game for skill/stats.
And thats the great problem, everybody around is almost the same, a MageFigtherArcherCrafterGatherer.
But, but, but he attacked me when I was low life!
Yes, HE DID, why you cant do the same to him?
Uf that will take me a lot of time...
HERE IS YOUR QUEST!
All Stats cap at 100, +10 for passive and +6 for title (only 1 stat at a time). So the cap is 110-116. There is no skill cap though, so everyone is a Jack-Of-All-Trade-Master-Of-All, meaning that you will have to grind everything to survive every situation :P
Which is ironic since many players will say "You don't need to grind everything", but then you post about how bunnyhopping (Stormblast, Shrapnel, Begone) is broken and a necessity to survive for exemple, and you are told "Grind those skills". Anyway. Try it out, there's a free trial anyway.
Yeah skill cap would make a few people leave likely. . if they degrade what they have spent a year or two grinding. . but I think it would also lead to a lot more players trying it out.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
If you like UO, you will love Darkfall (even if like me you wish Darkfall would add pets).
You do not need to grind anything at all to have a huge amount of fun in this game. Trying to be a Jack-Of-All means that you *would* have to grind it all to be a master of all, so instead screw magic and just pick the skills Destroyer and Magekiller (which you can get rid of later to learn magic when you are rich), work up archery and 2H melee. Make some friends, and go start beating the crap out of the veteran mages, then sell them their own reagents back
There really is only a grind in Darkfall in two situations #1, you want everything, and #2, you want it all now. Try the game, make friends, and don't get sucked into the 'must grind must gring must grind' midset - it's an illusion, and very likely to result in massive wasted time when Prestige classes get added (which is very likely to be based on current selectable 'class' skills, picking one thing will make you better in that area, but 'lock out' other skills until you abandon the selection skill). If they add Paladin for example, that locks out witchcraft and necromacy spells, you will look really foolish if you grinded to 100 necro just because someone you met said you need Eye Rot to pvp. You don't - it's a great spell, but you don't need it, especailly if you have 3 buddies and you can all use bows, and he's alone ....
Besides ... free trial!!
I think you guys should try to get those type of people that will leave to understand it doesn't degrade anything. It just forces players to be something, and lowers the amount of skills needed to be competitive at something. Vets still have a huge edge by being able to have more choices as to what they want to be.
I think you guys should try to get those type of people that will leave to understand it doesn't degrade anything. It just forces players to be something, and lowers the amount of skills needed to be competitive at something. Vets still have a huge edge by being able to have more choices as to what they want to be.
Key word, forces.As opposed to to players being forced to do everything now?
I'll take multiple choices to make a playstyle over the single choice of doing everything.
As opposed to to players being forced to do everything now?
I'll take multiple choices to make a playstyle over the single choice of doing everything.
I don't feel forced to do anything.I have not touched any magic higher than spellchanting and witchcraft. I do however, want the ability to touch them if I so wish to.
Exactly, you do as you like. You can buy a school, train some of the magic up and use it if it suits you. If you don't like it you can drop it and never use it again, or pick it up again at a later time no big deal. Its about freedom, and getting off the skill gain/loss teeter totter. Don't beleive the people who say there is one play style. Come duel and see the multitude of techniques and ideas brought into the game. Adapt into your style those that fit and leave out what doesn't.
Specializations (if done right) > Skill Cap
You mean prestige class. Because this is what is coming next.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Prestige classes are a form of that so yes.
In the beginning of beta DF had soft skill cap. Also - you were unable to buy opposing schools of magic (Witchcraft / Spell Chanting, Fire / Water, etc.). DF even has skill degradation code ready. It was implemented quickly after launch, but eventually was not enabled.
Why ?
Because skill cap is just lazy way to hide the problem of unbalanced skills. It "kind of works" in games where PvP aspect is not that important.
The right way to solve the problem is to balance magic / archery / melee / heavy armor / light armor / rays / bolts / nukes / AOEs / mounted combat in such way that even limited set of skills is sufficient to compete.
This makes no sense. How does a skill cap hide unbalanced skills?? If anything, it makes them ever more blatantly obvious because people can't switch to something else if what they're doing isn't working.
A skill cap would make it so that no one could be everything... people would have to fill special roles rather than being jacks of all trade. This would mean that every different role would need to be balanced. The laziness you refer to is in the design AV decided to use. By letting everyone be everything, AV is just basically saying "screw this, lets just not balance anything". So now everyone has to be everything so that they can take advantage of whatever skill is overpowered at any given time. When it eventually gets nerfed, everyone can then be whatever else is OP without losing the other skills they trained. For a new player, the idea of having to basically train up everything is extremely daunting... and frankly not worth it for the majority.
You have a point, but why should roles or a collection of skills be balanced?
Most people play a mmo(rpg) to play with others against others. If a succesfull build is working, a lot of people will pick that build. Still every build have it flaws or it counterpart. So the team that has the best mix of builds will win in theory. There's your balance.
I never heard the Germans listen to the Allies complaining about the fact the German tanks were overpowered.
Gaming is all about learning of your mistakes, improve your tactics, work on teamplay and be flexible during combat. So don't use the balance card. Trying to enforce balance, has destroyed a lot of games.
Balance can also be achieved by altering items, instead of altering skills. For example if archery is too overpowered, implent arrow weight. A person can only carry 50 arrows. Ofc he can carry more, but where do you put 1000 arrows? He would have his hands full and can't fire his bow till he drops those 1000 arrows.
Magic too overpowered? Increase the regen time for mana. The wizard can kill most of your group with his spell, but when he's out of mana, he has to defend himself with his staff.
First of all - in DF you've got 300 skills. No matter how hard you try you cannot use more than 20 in single fight. So you're using "build" just by deciding what skills to put on the hotbars.
Skill cap hides problems by allowing for one-trick ponies:
"Dex warrior" from UO wasn't unbalanced in group fights - but with low ping he could defeat anyone in 1vs1 without any player skill - just by spamming attacks.
Sprinting mage from early Mortal Online did not have any chance in 1vs2, because of limited mana, and couldn't even properly loot his opponents because of limited strength - but in proper conditions he would defeat armored warrior 99% of time.
The same goes for mounted mage. Or for swimming tamers, hunting people near the lakes. Or mounted warriors knocking down players 10 times in a row. Crafters and gatherers are basically walking loot bags.
If you think that it's OK to be killed for role-playing reasons, without any chance to fight back, because you've chosen wrong build for given situation and your player skills don't matter - there are plenty of games with skill cap.
There are no cheesy, unfair tactics in DF. If some skill seems OP - you can try it yourself and usually find out that it is balanced by casting time, magic encumbrance, cooldown, shared cooldown, necessity to land the spell perfectly, cost of equipment etc.
Without skill cap everyone can and will use melee, magic, archery all mixed together in every fight. Zero specialization. Boring.
Aventurine-hater since December 5, 2009
You cannot use everything in one battle, you right. Still, everyone can be a jack of all trade, meaning that they got the option to use all the useful skills for each roles and not raise the useless one like Frality for example. How does it make DF seem like?
I wont respond to the rest of your post because its obvious that you are more fps gamer then RPG, so there is no point to argue. Plus, you really dont see that fact as a problem like most of us do. Prestige class will fix that anyway...
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif