Never played LOTR but can't help thinking about turbines other game; DDO. That game has debuffs to the point where anger is replaced by stupified laughter. Like when you are in a dungeon and a random caster mob casts blind on you.
You are now blind, your whole screen is black. Yep it is going to stay that way. You give up and come out of the dungeon and stand in the city and guess what, that black screen isn't going away by itself hahaha.
The most ludicrous thing is if you go to their forums- Yes, I did that- such choices are furiously defended by people who happen to think this is a good way to increase a games difficulty level. What kind of shoots it all down though, is that it turns out they are all carrying work-arounds. These being "clickables" which are put on cloth pieces, and so you realise you will be walking around with 5 pairs of shoes, 3 capes and 7 chainmails in your backpack to be ready for all eventualities.
I can't respect people who defend something like permadeath in a game, when it turns out they have a workaround. An ill developed and microheavy workaround.
The game is called Dungeons and Dragons Online, the spell blindess is directly taken from the pen and paper rules. DDo players does not want the system to be dumbed down just because some people don't like to prepare for a dungeon by buying potions of remove blindness.
Same goes for the OP. Lotro vendors sell disease/wound/poison/fear potions to remove the debuff, if it's such a big deal for you.
Granted, they're mostly minor inconveniences, but the sheer number of them is really high. It's throughout the game as well. If you're not seeing them, you're simply not paying attention.
That's the thing. Most weren't saying they aren't prevalent in this game simply that they're (for the most part) insignificant.
Pretty ironic you say that, considering the OP wasn't discussing how many are significant versus insignificant. They were discussing the fact that there are so many of them, how frequently they're landed and how annoying it can be.
Others in the thread, like yourself, spun it into the whole "they're not all signficant, so who cares?" thing into it, no doubt to dismiss the complaint.
Personally, I know exactly what Dreamscaper and the OP are talking about because it's something I noticed too. LoTRO, back when I played it, was a debuff fest while out hunting. Yes, it did become annoying, especially while fighting some of the more debuff happy mobs.
Turbine - at least back then - also had a hard-on for knocking players off their horses. I was pretty regularly knocked from my horse in two hits by mobs that would barely reward xp when I killed them.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
^That one can be annoying especially if you accidentally fall from a rather far height. Seems to take forever to go away. Suppose it beats the alternative of simply dying, but it can still be annoying.
I suppose, in the spirit of the responses the OP is getting to their remarks, I'll respond to you and SuperXero in kind...
"It's not that big of a deal, man. Stop complaining about it. The run speed de-buff is only temporary and you can easily avoid it by just being more careful or not falling from such heights. Don't blame the game because you don't know how to navigate terrain more carefully".
See how that works?
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
haha, my record was 15 debuffs on my guardian from 4 mobs, 2 of them were -250 to two stats. Yeah, they are debuff happy. Don't really care to much except the timers on them are rediculously long. Any debuff longer then a minute should have a seperate leaves combat timer that is significantly shorter that I can agree with the OP. Fighting wargs and knowing that your going to be crippled and can't run is interesting. Knowing that its going to take you forever to walk over to hit that next mob is not fun.
Insignificant debuffs are insignificant. So what if there where no debuffs and you could kill stuff 15% faster but Turbine instead raised morale on all mobs 15%? Whats the point? Apart from eliminating yet another facet of choosing your groupsetup in instances?
What you want is plainly called dumbing down. No, you won't level faster or have an easier time without these debuffs because they are taken into account when tuning the difficulty of the game. Without them Turbine would just make fights harder in some other way and the only thing accomplished is making the game more boring by removing a mechanic.
There are plenty of classes that can remove or prevent debuffs on others: Burglar, Hunter, LM, Captain, RK, Minstrel. Some even can dispel more than one type of debuff, or simply put don't really care about debuffs like the warden.
Granted, they're mostly minor inconveniences, but the sheer number of them is really high. It's throughout the game as well. If you're not seeing them, you're simply not paying attention.
That's the thing. Most weren't saying they aren't prevalent in this game simply that they're (for the most part) insignificant.
Pretty ironic you say that, considering the OP wasn't discussing how many are significant versus insignificant. They were discussing the fact that there are so many of them, how frequently they're landed and how annoying it can be.
Others in the thread, like yourself, spun it into the whole "they're not all signficant, so who cares?" thing into it, no doubt to dismiss the complaint.
Personally, I know exactly what Dreamscaper and the OP are talking about because it's something I noticed too. LoTRO, back when I played it, was a debuff fest while out hunting. Yes, it did become annoying, especially while fighting some of the more debuff happy mobs.
Turbine - at least back then - also had a hard-on for knocking players off their horses. I was pretty regularly knocked from my horse in two hits by mobs that would barely reward xp when I killed them.
I think what alot of people are trying to impart on the op or in my case understand is when it really only amounts to a difficulty slider does it matter? I've pointed out a few times that maybe if you were the type of player who just can't stand seeing the little buttons under your portrait that I could understand a complaint about the debuffs. But as far as I can tell the op never said that so for me my thinking is maybe this is a player who hasn't made it to a high enough level to see how little the debuffs or the cures matter.
I am an altaholic who sets goals for myself like "having a supreme master crafter of every profession (which I now do). At this time I have two scholars both of whom are supreme masters and I don't think on Brandywine I have ever even made a potion because the debuffs mean so little.
At the end of the day though my feeling is if it bothers you that much it may not be the game for you as most of the player base there ignores it completely and as others have stated may actually prefer this type of difficulty slider to the fifteen percent increase in damage or mob hit points we would see from this.
Other considerations I like to make when discussing the debuffing in LOTRO which I can readily admit is one of the most debuff happy games I've played is that there are quite a few debuffs that really do nothing to you such as a poison/disease/wound debuff that just makes you more succeptible to poison/disease/wound.
The only debuffs that seem to have any actual effect on quality of play and ease of combat are the slow debuffs, and the mana drains, otherwise they can all be ignored pretty universally.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
^That one can be annoying especially if you accidentally fall from a rather far height. Seems to take forever to go away. Suppose it beats the alternative of simply dying, but it can still be annoying.
I suppose, in the spirit of the responses the OP is getting to their remarks, I'll respond to you and SuperXero in kind...
"It's not that big of a deal, man. Stop complaining about it. The run speed de-buff is only temporary and you can easily avoid it by just being more careful or not falling from such heights. Don't blame the game because you don't know how to navigate terrain more carefully".
See how that works?
Not really since saying something can be annoying at times is rather different from saying the game is ruined because of it or people that it doesn't bother must be complete fanboys or working for Turbine, which is what the OP has said in his/her posts.
Wouldn't bother me in the least that it doesn't phase some people. Then again I don't expect everyone to feel the exact same way I do about a game or gameplay in general.
Nice try though.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Pretty ironic you say that, considering the OP wasn't discussing how many are significant versus insignificant. They were discussing the fact that there are so many of them, how frequently they're landed and how annoying it can be.
Others in the thread, like yourself, spun it into the whole "they're not all signficant, so who cares?" thing into it, no doubt to dismiss the complaint.
Personally, I know exactly what Dreamscaper and the OP are talking about because it's something I noticed too. LoTRO, back when I played it, was a debuff fest while out hunting. Yes, it did become annoying, especially while fighting some of the more debuff happy mobs.
Turbine - at least back then - also had a hard-on for knocking players off their horses. I was pretty regularly knocked from my horse in two hits by mobs that would barely reward xp when I killed them.
They are insiginificant to some players so to some it isn't a big deal. So for them it isn't annoying, not fun, etc.
Not sure why that appears to be an issue, ironic, or not a valid response but whatever floats your boat. I would think you of all people would be willing to accept that not everyone has to feel the same way on a subject matter because for the most part your posts seem pretty even handed but apparently not.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
If you think its bad now, you should have played in the early days. I call it "the night of the hounding fear" - every mob in the game had a 30 sec, 25% run debuff
The debuff don't bother me that much, its about 90% at the level it should be
i found everything in the game decent, i found the way that turbine rolled out the F2p to be the biggest lie I have ever seen in gaming. I subbed because I wanted the whole package, however when i went to look for the xpacks i couldnt find them anywhere, only in thier store for stupid prices, I had started a fellowship with a decent amount of members but as people realized how shady turbine set up f2p they left in large numbers, the only company that i know that does business like this is SOE and i personally will never give another dime to either company.
to be directly on topic, I found the debuffs to be a bit extreme, but doable. good game poor implementation just like 90% of whats out there now.
i found everything in the game decent, i found the way that turbine rolled out the F2p to be the biggest lie I have ever seen in gaming. I subbed because I wanted the whole package, however when i went to look for the xpacks i couldnt find them anywhere, only in thier store for stupid prices, I had started a fellowship with a decent amount of members but as people realized how shady turbine set up f2p they left in large numbers, the only company that i know that does business like this is SOE and i personally will never give another dime to either company.
to be directly on topic, I found the debuffs to be a bit extreme, but doable. good game poor implementation just like 90% of whats out there now.
Its not a lie if they tell you straight what you get and what you have to pay for. Some of us do not rely on a advertisement slogan as our sole information source in these regards ...
this is the first game where all of my characters are almost permanent debuffed while hunting, either a Wolf slows me and when it wears off the next wolf slows me or a bear debuffs me for 5 mins then the next bear does the same. never mind if playing a low level character or higher level, it only gets worse and the durations are longer the higher level mobs are.
Up to Level 60 i think i was debuffed 90% of my hunting time, sometimes i had 5 mins debuff with -170 Will/Fate or i got all my resists debuffed to Zero.
Sometimes i had 2 Wound Effects, 2 Poison effect on my character and if unlucky a 5 mins resist debuff...
I am not sure why Turbine feels that debuffing players forever while hunting/questing is fun, for me its frustrating to see a 5 mins debuff wearing off and 20 sec later i am having it again. The same counts for all the runspeed slows that are caused by animals and some hunter types of mobs.
its not fun beeing slowed and crawling for 30 mins until a quest goal is achieved Turbine......
p.s btw Potions are way pointless, they dont protect after cureing. The next mob can debuff you again.......... its possible to burn through 30 potions if thats fun for someone.... its not for me.
What, am I the only person who plays LoTRO that knows there is food you can eat??
Look, if your fighting wolves alot and you dont like them debuffing you on fear, then either get some traits that boost your fear reduction, change your gear some, or EAT SOME FOOD that gives you resistances. There are specific foods just for that, come on. Get some Barley Stew or something for fear and maybe Hearty Carrot Soup for the wound resistance.
The game has the stuff there to make this a total non-issue if your willing to learn and use. Being hit by this 90% of the time and refuing to use the stuff already in game to counter it is just your own fault, not the games design at all. Thats like complaining you get hit too hard by every mob but refuse to put on some damn armor to stop it. Palease!
Now I understand everyone tries to tweak thier toon to get the stats cap'd and the most morale or armor or DPS, but far too many times they end up boosting one area at the expense of another. If your gear is all about getting the most from your core stats, ICHR, and ICMR with absolutely no concideration to resistances than you have no room to complain on this issue at all. Afterall you are building your character intentionally to ignore the debuffs, you SHOULD get hit by them all the time if your actually planning your build that way. It all depends on your priorities, if being under a debuff 90% of the time is less important than getting that extra 2% DPS, well then.........
i found everything in the game decent, i found the way that turbine rolled out the F2p to be the biggest lie I have ever seen in gaming. I subbed because I wanted the whole package, however when i went to look for the xpacks i couldnt find them anywhere, only in thier store for stupid prices, I had started a fellowship with a decent amount of members but as people realized how shady turbine set up f2p they left in large numbers, the only company that i know that does business like this is SOE and i personally will never give another dime to either company.
to be directly on topic, I found the debuffs to be a bit extreme, but doable. good game poor implementation just like 90% of whats out there now.
Its not a lie if they tell you straight what you get and what you have to pay for. Some of us do not rely on a advertisement slogan as our sole information source in these regards ...
ok smart ass, i understand how free to play works, but how they worded it was shady. the entire game is supposed to be free to play, how to get the entire game for free, is entirely unreasonable. Considering right before the game went to free to play, you could get both xpacks for 60$ and after the game went free to play, it was 40$ just for 1 xpack because you had to use turbine points to get, is unreasonable.
and incase you are unsure what the actual defination of lie is, I have a copy and pasted quote from a dictionary
lie 2 (l)
n.
1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.
v.lied, ly·ing (lng), lies
v.intr.
1. To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
2. To convey a false image or impression
which is exactly what turbine did. they gave the wrong impression, sure it suckered people in, but as I stated, I just went ahead and did the full subscriber, not expecting it to be impossible to find the expansions in a phyiscal disk form anywhere on the planet. I couldn't even get it through amazon.
Actually you can get the entire game for free, over time.
As you complete traits and deeds you gain turbine points for each. Over time, if you do enough content you can use those free points to turn around and buy the next ex-pac. And by doing the quests, deeds, and traits in that ex-pac you can gain enough free Turbine points to eventually purchase the next ex-pac.
You seem to be under the impression that you SHOULD be given the ENTIRE game and ALL of its content FREE up front and forever. This is an assumption on your part and incorrect. You can however EARN the ENTIRE game and ALL of its content for FREE if you spend the time and put in the effort to do so.
Let's take my original scenario in Mirkwood. Let's say that I'm unlucky and pull a sorceror, a warg, and a shaman all at once. Throughout the course of the fight, I'm going to have to deal with (though probably not all at once unless I'm unlucky):
4 fear debuffs
3 wound debuffs
2 poisons
Lets say i stroll into some jungle irl, and decide to fight various "mobs", then I would most certainly get atleast
+ 7 fear debuffs (probably alot more!)
+5 wound debuffs (also, probably alot more!)
+2 poisons (since im imherently afraid of everything with more than 4 legs, and thus, would avoid them)
which is exactly what turbine did. they gave the wrong impression, sure it suckered people in, but as I stated, I just went ahead and did the full subscriber, not expecting it to be impossible to find the expansions in a phyiscal disk form anywhere on the planet. I couldn't even get it through amazon.
I don't really see how they gave people the wrong impression. I seems to me you thought "OMG the whole game is free!" Which, was never said on any advertisment. Then you just went and subscribed without even going to the official free to play page on the lotro.com website where you could have read over the limitations of each of the subscription levels.
I also don't see how they suckered anyone. As the game is completely free to download if you choose, and the limitations of the free subscription are on exactly the same page where you have to sign up for a free account.
As for the expansions. It is currently possible to earn roughly $35 worth of TP on each character you play before hitting Moria. Not even including the 500 points they give you every month for being a VIP. If you only play 1 character, that makes the Moria expansion $5 through the Turbine Store (or if you play for more than a month or multiple characters). Hardly a bad deal if you ask me. Sure, you can't buy the actual disk any more but Moria was available for purchase for 2 YEARS. You had plenty of time to pick it up.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
ok smart ass, i understand how free to play works, but how they worded it was shady. the entire game is supposed to be free to play, how to get the entire game for free, is entirely unreasonable. Considering right before the game went to free to play, you could get both xpacks for 60$ and after the game went free to play, it was 40$ just for 1 xpack because you had to use turbine points to get, is unreasonable.
and incase you are unsure what the actual defination of lie is, I have a copy and pasted quote from a dictionary
lie 2 (l)
n.
1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.
v.lied, ly·ing (lng), lies
v.intr.
1. To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
2. To convey a false image or impression
which is exactly what turbine did. they gave the wrong impression, sure it suckered people in, but as I stated, I just went ahead and did the full subscriber, not expecting it to be impossible to find the expansions in a phyiscal disk form anywhere on the planet. I couldn't even get it through amazon.
First of all, there are loads of mines of moria copies on Amazon. And, Siege of Mirkwood has always been digital download only.
People have already answered your post, politely I might add, and they are correct. All you are saying is: Turbine lied, because they are being unreasonable with how you can achieve free TP... You do not make any sense.
^That one can be annoying especially if you accidentally fall from a rather far height. Seems to take forever to go away. Suppose it beats the alternative of simply dying, but it can still be annoying.
I suppose, in the spirit of the responses the OP is getting to their remarks, I'll respond to you and SuperXero in kind...
"It's not that big of a deal, man. Stop complaining about it. The run speed de-buff is only temporary and you can easily avoid it by just being more careful or not falling from such heights. Don't blame the game because you don't know how to navigate terrain more carefully".
See how that works?
Not really since saying something can be annoying at times is rather different from saying the game is ruined because of it or people that it doesn't bother must be complete fanboys or working for Turbine, which is what the OP has said in his/her posts.
Wouldn't bother me in the least that it doesn't phase some people. Then again I don't expect everyone to feel the exact same way I do about a game or gameplay in general.
Nice try though.
Actually, the OP says nothing of the sort in their opening post. I just read it again. They're merely pointing out that they find it ridiculous how often you're debuffed in the game and wonders why Turbine felt it necessary to have debuffs occur so much.
From that point, it became a game of pile-on by others telling the OP how wrong he is.
Only after almost 40 posts of people telling them "so what?" "Stop complaining about it.", "you're playing wrong if it's happening that much", "just ignore it", and so forth do they resort to the "fanboy" remark. And, frankly, given how people twisted what he actually said into something he didn't, I think the fanboy label is appropriately used in some cases.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Pretty ironic you say that, considering the OP wasn't discussing how many are significant versus insignificant. They were discussing the fact that there are so many of them, how frequently they're landed and how annoying it can be.
Others in the thread, like yourself, spun it into the whole "they're not all signficant, so who cares?" thing into it, no doubt to dismiss the complaint.
Personally, I know exactly what Dreamscaper and the OP are talking about because it's something I noticed too. LoTRO, back when I played it, was a debuff fest while out hunting. Yes, it did become annoying, especially while fighting some of the more debuff happy mobs.
Turbine - at least back then - also had a hard-on for knocking players off their horses. I was pretty regularly knocked from my horse in two hits by mobs that would barely reward xp when I killed them.
They are insiginificant to some players so to some it isn't a big deal. So for them it isn't annoying, not fun, etc.
Not sure why that appears to be an issue, ironic, or not a valid response but whatever floats your boat. I would think you of all people would be willing to accept that not everyone has to feel the same way on a subject matter because for the most part your posts seem pretty even handed but apparently not.
I'll repeat: whether they're significant or not wasn't the point of the OP. All the OP said was, in a nutshell, "Turbine seems to be very debuff happy and I find it rather absurd/annoying". *Others* in the thread brought in the whole thing about being "significant", "insignificant" and then argued it as though it was the OP's position. That's what you would call a strawman.
Speaking of irony... As for your second paragraph, that is pure ad hominem laced with "gee you disappoint me" condescension. What you 'think" or "expect" of me is irrelevant to the discussion; nor do I really care regardless.
I do respect that others have a difference of opinion when that's what's being expressed. And by *some* in this thread, that was the case. I don't accept when people are given one argument and then try to twist it into something else. Reasonable replies to the OP would simply have been, "Hmm, I never really noticed how many debuffs are occuring" or "I dont' think there are any more in LoTRO than in any other game" or "Yeah, I can see where they happen more often, but I dont' think it's that bad".
Other replies could have been along the lines of, "you know, I've noticed that myself". I do recall reading at least one or two replies like that. I've had that same exact thought quite often while playing LoTRO. Same thing goes for how easily you can be knocked off a horse (or at least could be when I played).
Instead, a number of people immediately jumped on the "let's tell the OP how they're playing wrong" bandwagon. I don't recall the OP ever saying "Hey I seem to be getting debuffed a lot, can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong or give me advice?" He was expressing an opinion, not asking a question, beyond "why did Turbine feel the need to do that?".
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
1. The game is F2P. You can make an account, start playing and it doesn't cost you anything. So how exactly did Turbine hurt you when you spend nothing but time to find out you do not like the product? If your time is so precious maybe you could have spared, oh i don't know, 5 min to actually look what you get during that freaking 10GB download.
2. The amount of debuffs is a nonissue, its about what these debuffs do. I sincerly doubt the op would feel any better if all these debuffs got rolled into a single one that does exactly the same as all the single debuffs combined. Obviously the whole point that makes debuffs bad is their effects, not how many tiny flashy icons are below your healthbar. And if these effects are insignificiant it does not matter wether you have 0, 5 or 50 debuffs in your buffbar since they do not affect your gameplay. Infact you can turn them off in the options probably if the animation bothers you that much.
3. Yes Turbine is debuff happy, they are a major gameplay/combat mechanic in lotro. Because those that are not insignificant can really ruin your day, like silence or disarms. Infact they are are a major element of raid and instance difficulty, Turbine wants you to think, not just bring tank+healer+4xDD. They want you to make sensible grouping descisions that take into account tanking, healing, removing debuffs, dealing with certain encounters etc. Its all part of making instances in this game actually challenging, instead of being so laughable easy that a freaking LFG tool can work out a perfect group composition every time by just throwing the three aspects DPS/HEAL/TANK together in a 4/1/1 ratio for every single instance.
1. The game is F2P. You can make an account, start playing and it doesn't cost you anything. So how exactly did Turbine hurt you when you spend nothing but time to find out you do not like the product? If your time is so precious maybe you could have spared, oh i don't know, 5 min to actually look what you get during that freaking 10GB download.
2. The amount of debuffs is a nonissue, its about what these debuffs do. I sincerly doubt the op would feel any better if all these debuffs got rolled into a single one that does exactly the same as all the single debuffs combined. Obviously the whole point that makes debuffs bad is their effects, not how many tiny flashy icons are below your healthbar. And if these effects are insignificiant it does not matter wether you have 0, 5 or 50 debuffs in your buffbar since they do not affect your gameplay. Infact you can turn them off in the options probably if the animation bothers you that much.
3. Yes Turbine is debuff happy, they are a major gameplay/combat mechanic in lotro. Because those that are not insignificant can really ruin your day, like silence or disarms. Infact they are are a major element of raid and instance difficulty, Turbine wants you to think, not just bring tank+healer+4xDD. They want you to make sensible grouping descisions that take into account tanking, healing, removing debuffs, dealing with certain encounters etc. Its all part of making instances in this game actually challenging, instead of being so laughable easy that a freaking LFG tool can work out a perfect group composition every time by just throwing the three aspects DPS/HEAL/TANK together in a 4/1/1 ratio for every single instance.
I'll repeat: whether they're significant or not wasn't the point of the OP. All the OP said was, in a nutshell, "Turbine seems to be very debuff happy and I find it rather absurd/annoying". *Others* in the thread brought in the whole thing about being "significant", "insignificant" and then argued it as though it was the OP's position. That's what you would call a strawman.
Speaking of irony... As for your second paragraph, that is pure ad hominem laced with "gee you disappoint me" condescension. What you 'think" or "expect" of me is irrelevant to the discussion; nor do I really care regardless.
I do respect that others have a difference of opinion when that's what's being expressed. And by *some* in this thread, that was the case. I don't accept when people are given one argument and then try to twist it into something else. Reasonable replies to the OP would simply have been, "Hmm, I never really noticed how many debuffs are occuring" or "I dont' think there are any more in LoTRO than in any other game" or "Yeah, I can see where they happen more often, but I dont' think it's that bad".
Other replies could have been along the lines of, "you know, I've noticed that myself". I do recall reading at least one or two replies like that. I've had that same exact thought quite often while playing LoTRO. Same thing goes for how easily you can be knocked off a horse (or at least could be when I played).
Instead, a number of people immediately jumped on the "let's tell the OP how they're playing wrong" bandwagon. I don't recall the OP ever saying "Hey I seem to be getting debuffed a lot, can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong or give me advice?" He was expressing an opinion, not asking a question, beyond "why did Turbine feel the need to do that?".
Telling someone they don't see what the big deal is because it doesn't bother them or feel it adversely affects their gameplay seems fine to me. Which is for the most part what people said that didn't agree with the OP.. Regardless whether they worded it in a fashion that you deem is an "appropriate response".
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
1. The game is F2P. You can make an account, start playing and it doesn't cost you anything. So how exactly did Turbine hurt you when you spend nothing but time to find out you do not like the product? If your time is so precious maybe you could have spared, oh i don't know, 5 min to actually look what you get during that freaking 10GB download.
2. The amount of debuffs is a nonissue, its about what these debuffs do. I sincerly doubt the op would feel any better if all these debuffs got rolled into a single one that does exactly the same as all the single debuffs combined. Obviously the whole point that makes debuffs bad is their effects, not how many tiny flashy icons are below your healthbar. And if these effects are insignificiant it does not matter wether you have 0, 5 or 50 debuffs in your buffbar since they do not affect your gameplay. Infact you can turn them off in the options probably if the animation bothers you that much.
3. Yes Turbine is debuff happy, they are a major gameplay/combat mechanic in lotro. Because those that are not insignificant can really ruin your day, like silence or disarms. Infact they are are a major element of raid and instance difficulty, Turbine wants you to think, not just bring tank+healer+4xDD. They want you to make sensible grouping descisions that take into account tanking, healing, removing debuffs, dealing with certain encounters etc. Its all part of making instances in this game actually challenging, instead of being so laughable easy that a freaking LFG tool can work out a perfect group composition every time by just throwing the three aspects DPS/HEAL/TANK together in a 4/1/1 ratio for every single instance.
^^ This - great post, 100% correct!
Oh and to the whoever it is that thinks we shouldnt tell someone who is obviously doing it wrong that they are doing it wrong...well I guess ignorance is bliss, we should just let them complain about stuff instead. Much better than letting them know what they are complaining about is just there because they dont know what they are doing. God forbid they could actually learn to do it right and stop having it bother them at all. Perfectly logical to suffer forever because of ignorance.
Noob carpenter hammering nails, keeps hitting his fingers with the damn hammer. Complains to everyone that his fingers hurt. Standback and laugh everytime he complains about it, or give him the obligatory 'ahhhh you poor thing, I feel so bad for you!'. No reason to bother to try and help the person, especially if he didnt specifically ASK for advice. Just let him suffer.
Comments
The game is called Dungeons and Dragons Online, the spell blindess is directly taken from the pen and paper rules. DDo players does not want the system to be dumbed down just because some people don't like to prepare for a dungeon by buying potions of remove blindness.
Same goes for the OP. Lotro vendors sell disease/wound/poison/fear potions to remove the debuff, if it's such a big deal for you.
REALITY CHECK
Pretty ironic you say that, considering the OP wasn't discussing how many are significant versus insignificant. They were discussing the fact that there are so many of them, how frequently they're landed and how annoying it can be.
Others in the thread, like yourself, spun it into the whole "they're not all signficant, so who cares?" thing into it, no doubt to dismiss the complaint.
Personally, I know exactly what Dreamscaper and the OP are talking about because it's something I noticed too. LoTRO, back when I played it, was a debuff fest while out hunting. Yes, it did become annoying, especially while fighting some of the more debuff happy mobs.
Turbine - at least back then - also had a hard-on for knocking players off their horses. I was pretty regularly knocked from my horse in two hits by mobs that would barely reward xp when I killed them.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I suppose, in the spirit of the responses the OP is getting to their remarks, I'll respond to you and SuperXero in kind...
"It's not that big of a deal, man. Stop complaining about it. The run speed de-buff is only temporary and you can easily avoid it by just being more careful or not falling from such heights. Don't blame the game because you don't know how to navigate terrain more carefully".
See how that works?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
haha, my record was 15 debuffs on my guardian from 4 mobs, 2 of them were -250 to two stats. Yeah, they are debuff happy. Don't really care to much except the timers on them are rediculously long. Any debuff longer then a minute should have a seperate leaves combat timer that is significantly shorter that I can agree with the OP. Fighting wargs and knowing that your going to be crippled and can't run is interesting. Knowing that its going to take you forever to walk over to hit that next mob is not fun.
If you find Lotro too difficult, you'd better not play MMO's at all.
Seriously.
Actually when the game launched it was way worse.It is very mild now in comparison. Just carry some pots with you or become a historian.
Insignificant debuffs are insignificant. So what if there where no debuffs and you could kill stuff 15% faster but Turbine instead raised morale on all mobs 15%? Whats the point? Apart from eliminating yet another facet of choosing your groupsetup in instances?
What you want is plainly called dumbing down. No, you won't level faster or have an easier time without these debuffs because they are taken into account when tuning the difficulty of the game. Without them Turbine would just make fights harder in some other way and the only thing accomplished is making the game more boring by removing a mechanic.
There are plenty of classes that can remove or prevent debuffs on others: Burglar, Hunter, LM, Captain, RK, Minstrel. Some even can dispel more than one type of debuff, or simply put don't really care about debuffs like the warden.
I think what alot of people are trying to impart on the op or in my case understand is when it really only amounts to a difficulty slider does it matter? I've pointed out a few times that maybe if you were the type of player who just can't stand seeing the little buttons under your portrait that I could understand a complaint about the debuffs. But as far as I can tell the op never said that so for me my thinking is maybe this is a player who hasn't made it to a high enough level to see how little the debuffs or the cures matter.
I am an altaholic who sets goals for myself like "having a supreme master crafter of every profession (which I now do). At this time I have two scholars both of whom are supreme masters and I don't think on Brandywine I have ever even made a potion because the debuffs mean so little.
At the end of the day though my feeling is if it bothers you that much it may not be the game for you as most of the player base there ignores it completely and as others have stated may actually prefer this type of difficulty slider to the fifteen percent increase in damage or mob hit points we would see from this.
Other considerations I like to make when discussing the debuffing in LOTRO which I can readily admit is one of the most debuff happy games I've played is that there are quite a few debuffs that really do nothing to you such as a poison/disease/wound debuff that just makes you more succeptible to poison/disease/wound.
The only debuffs that seem to have any actual effect on quality of play and ease of combat are the slow debuffs, and the mana drains, otherwise they can all be ignored pretty universally.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Not really since saying something can be annoying at times is rather different from saying the game is ruined because of it or people that it doesn't bother must be complete fanboys or working for Turbine, which is what the OP has said in his/her posts.
Wouldn't bother me in the least that it doesn't phase some people. Then again I don't expect everyone to feel the exact same way I do about a game or gameplay in general.
Nice try though.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
They are insiginificant to some players so to some it isn't a big deal. So for them it isn't annoying, not fun, etc.
Not sure why that appears to be an issue, ironic, or not a valid response but whatever floats your boat. I would think you of all people would be willing to accept that not everyone has to feel the same way on a subject matter because for the most part your posts seem pretty even handed but apparently not.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
If you think its bad now, you should have played in the early days. I call it "the night of the hounding fear" - every mob in the game had a 30 sec, 25% run debuff
The debuff don't bother me that much, its about 90% at the level it should be
i found everything in the game decent, i found the way that turbine rolled out the F2p to be the biggest lie I have ever seen in gaming. I subbed because I wanted the whole package, however when i went to look for the xpacks i couldnt find them anywhere, only in thier store for stupid prices, I had started a fellowship with a decent amount of members but as people realized how shady turbine set up f2p they left in large numbers, the only company that i know that does business like this is SOE and i personally will never give another dime to either company.
to be directly on topic, I found the debuffs to be a bit extreme, but doable. good game poor implementation just like 90% of whats out there now.
Its not a lie if they tell you straight what you get and what you have to pay for. Some of us do not rely on a advertisement slogan as our sole information source in these regards ...
What, am I the only person who plays LoTRO that knows there is food you can eat??
Look, if your fighting wolves alot and you dont like them debuffing you on fear, then either get some traits that boost your fear reduction, change your gear some, or EAT SOME FOOD that gives you resistances. There are specific foods just for that, come on. Get some Barley Stew or something for fear and maybe Hearty Carrot Soup for the wound resistance.
The game has the stuff there to make this a total non-issue if your willing to learn and use. Being hit by this 90% of the time and refuing to use the stuff already in game to counter it is just your own fault, not the games design at all. Thats like complaining you get hit too hard by every mob but refuse to put on some damn armor to stop it. Palease!
Now I understand everyone tries to tweak thier toon to get the stats cap'd and the most morale or armor or DPS, but far too many times they end up boosting one area at the expense of another. If your gear is all about getting the most from your core stats, ICHR, and ICMR with absolutely no concideration to resistances than you have no room to complain on this issue at all. Afterall you are building your character intentionally to ignore the debuffs, you SHOULD get hit by them all the time if your actually planning your build that way. It all depends on your priorities, if being under a debuff 90% of the time is less important than getting that extra 2% DPS, well then.........
ok smart ass, i understand how free to play works, but how they worded it was shady. the entire game is supposed to be free to play, how to get the entire game for free, is entirely unreasonable. Considering right before the game went to free to play, you could get both xpacks for 60$ and after the game went free to play, it was 40$ just for 1 xpack because you had to use turbine points to get, is unreasonable.
and incase you are unsure what the actual defination of lie is, I have a copy and pasted quote from a dictionary
lie 2 (l
)
n.
1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.
v. lied, ly·ing (l
v.intr.
1. To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
2. To convey a false image or impression
which is exactly what turbine did. they gave the wrong impression, sure it suckered people in, but as I stated, I just went ahead and did the full subscriber, not expecting it to be impossible to find the expansions in a phyiscal disk form anywhere on the planet. I couldn't even get it through amazon.
Actually you can get the entire game for free, over time.
As you complete traits and deeds you gain turbine points for each. Over time, if you do enough content you can use those free points to turn around and buy the next ex-pac. And by doing the quests, deeds, and traits in that ex-pac you can gain enough free Turbine points to eventually purchase the next ex-pac.
You seem to be under the impression that you SHOULD be given the ENTIRE game and ALL of its content FREE up front and forever. This is an assumption on your part and incorrect. You can however EARN the ENTIRE game and ALL of its content for FREE if you spend the time and put in the effort to do so.
Lets say i stroll into some jungle irl, and decide to fight various "mobs", then I would most certainly get atleast
+ 7 fear debuffs (probably alot more!)
+5 wound debuffs (also, probably alot more!)
+2 poisons (since im imherently afraid of everything with more than 4 legs, and thus, would avoid them)
just a thought
I don't really see how they gave people the wrong impression. I seems to me you thought "OMG the whole game is free!" Which, was never said on any advertisment. Then you just went and subscribed without even going to the official free to play page on the lotro.com website where you could have read over the limitations of each of the subscription levels.
I also don't see how they suckered anyone. As the game is completely free to download if you choose, and the limitations of the free subscription are on exactly the same page where you have to sign up for a free account.
As for the expansions. It is currently possible to earn roughly $35 worth of TP on each character you play before hitting Moria. Not even including the 500 points they give you every month for being a VIP. If you only play 1 character, that makes the Moria expansion $5 through the Turbine Store (or if you play for more than a month or multiple characters). Hardly a bad deal if you ask me. Sure, you can't buy the actual disk any more but Moria was available for purchase for 2 YEARS. You had plenty of time to pick it up.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
First of all, there are loads of mines of moria copies on Amazon. And, Siege of Mirkwood has always been digital download only.
People have already answered your post, politely I might add, and they are correct. All you are saying is: Turbine lied, because they are being unreasonable with how you can achieve free TP... You do not make any sense.
Actually, the OP says nothing of the sort in their opening post. I just read it again. They're merely pointing out that they find it ridiculous how often you're debuffed in the game and wonders why Turbine felt it necessary to have debuffs occur so much.
From that point, it became a game of pile-on by others telling the OP how wrong he is.
Only after almost 40 posts of people telling them "so what?" "Stop complaining about it.", "you're playing wrong if it's happening that much", "just ignore it", and so forth do they resort to the "fanboy" remark. And, frankly, given how people twisted what he actually said into something he didn't, I think the fanboy label is appropriately used in some cases.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I'll repeat: whether they're significant or not wasn't the point of the OP. All the OP said was, in a nutshell, "Turbine seems to be very debuff happy and I find it rather absurd/annoying". *Others* in the thread brought in the whole thing about being "significant", "insignificant" and then argued it as though it was the OP's position. That's what you would call a strawman.
Speaking of irony... As for your second paragraph, that is pure ad hominem laced with "gee you disappoint me" condescension. What you 'think" or "expect" of me is irrelevant to the discussion; nor do I really care regardless.
I do respect that others have a difference of opinion when that's what's being expressed. And by *some* in this thread, that was the case. I don't accept when people are given one argument and then try to twist it into something else. Reasonable replies to the OP would simply have been, "Hmm, I never really noticed how many debuffs are occuring" or "I dont' think there are any more in LoTRO than in any other game" or "Yeah, I can see where they happen more often, but I dont' think it's that bad".
Other replies could have been along the lines of, "you know, I've noticed that myself". I do recall reading at least one or two replies like that. I've had that same exact thought quite often while playing LoTRO. Same thing goes for how easily you can be knocked off a horse (or at least could be when I played).
Instead, a number of people immediately jumped on the "let's tell the OP how they're playing wrong" bandwagon. I don't recall the OP ever saying "Hey I seem to be getting debuffed a lot, can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong or give me advice?" He was expressing an opinion, not asking a question, beyond "why did Turbine feel the need to do that?".
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Three points:
1. The game is F2P. You can make an account, start playing and it doesn't cost you anything. So how exactly did Turbine hurt you when you spend nothing but time to find out you do not like the product? If your time is so precious maybe you could have spared, oh i don't know, 5 min to actually look what you get during that freaking 10GB download.
2. The amount of debuffs is a nonissue, its about what these debuffs do. I sincerly doubt the op would feel any better if all these debuffs got rolled into a single one that does exactly the same as all the single debuffs combined. Obviously the whole point that makes debuffs bad is their effects, not how many tiny flashy icons are below your healthbar. And if these effects are insignificiant it does not matter wether you have 0, 5 or 50 debuffs in your buffbar since they do not affect your gameplay. Infact you can turn them off in the options probably if the animation bothers you that much.
3. Yes Turbine is debuff happy, they are a major gameplay/combat mechanic in lotro. Because those that are not insignificant can really ruin your day, like silence or disarms. Infact they are are a major element of raid and instance difficulty, Turbine wants you to think, not just bring tank+healer+4xDD. They want you to make sensible grouping descisions that take into account tanking, healing, removing debuffs, dealing with certain encounters etc. Its all part of making instances in this game actually challenging, instead of being so laughable easy that a freaking LFG tool can work out a perfect group composition every time by just throwing the three aspects DPS/HEAL/TANK together in a 4/1/1 ratio for every single instance.
^ This.
insanex
Telling someone they don't see what the big deal is because it doesn't bother them or feel it adversely affects their gameplay seems fine to me. Which is for the most part what people said that didn't agree with the OP.. Regardless whether they worded it in a fashion that you deem is an "appropriate response".
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
^^ This - great post, 100% correct!
Oh and to the whoever it is that thinks we shouldnt tell someone who is obviously doing it wrong that they are doing it wrong...well I guess ignorance is bliss, we should just let them complain about stuff instead. Much better than letting them know what they are complaining about is just there because they dont know what they are doing. God forbid they could actually learn to do it right and stop having it bother them at all. Perfectly logical to suffer forever because of ignorance.
Noob carpenter hammering nails, keeps hitting his fingers with the damn hammer. Complains to everyone that his fingers hurt. Standback and laugh everytime he complains about it, or give him the obligatory 'ahhhh you poor thing, I feel so bad for you!'. No reason to bother to try and help the person, especially if he didnt specifically ASK for advice. Just let him suffer.