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The REAL problem with mmo's is that they aren't fun to actually play.
Gintoh
Member UncommonPosts: 329
Yes, many complain about the lack of freedom and such which is a problem, but the real problem is that the minute to minute gameplay isn't fun. Lets take WoW. You click on a guy, watch you Avatar hack on him for a little bit, maybe spam a few skill combos, then one of you falls over.
Thrilling.
This is why I would much rather play Fallen Earth then Eve. Yes I like the idea of Sandboxes better, and that's what eve has going for it, the metagame. The metagame is interesting, upgrading your ship and world polotics and such. But is the actual gameplay itself fun? Not really. Yes FE is a Themepark, but imo it's far more entertaining even though it lacks alot of depth. The real problem is that MMO's have crappy, boring gameplay. Not that a game is streamlined or open or whatever.
Comments
I agree, most MMOs aren't real fun in the gameplay department, they're more focused on the grind... skilllevelgearwhatever.
I'm having fun...
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Here's some WOW hacking on mobs till they fall over. If you watch the video with or without sound, you'll get the idea...
WOW - what fun!
This is kind of funny since I was thinking the same thing the other day but it just hit me why eq1 was so much fun for me, was twisting songs it was not the combat it was the challenge and constant twisting that kept the gameplay exciting for me, but then again I had fun with a few others in that game but atleast it had depth and lots of freedom.
Anyways you just basicly described cox one thing it does right is combat and the game is allot better over all now, but I hear champions is doing much better and I hear combat is even more faced paced and refreshing in that game I am downloading it now to try it out, I also hear its really fun for us with alt itis so even with some lack of endgame content I am sure by the time I get a character to max level there will be more content hehe.
I love Rpg combat.
A combat system doesnt have to be twitch to be enjoyable.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Only thing I really had fun with in lotro was monster play, but good for you if you're having fun with the rest of the game.
You are very correct to note that "minute to minute gameplay isn't fun," however you're just not right about World of Warcraft. There is a lot that is wrong with World of Warcraft but, let's face it, it isn't the combat or the incredibly expansive world or the story that the gross majority of former and current WoW players choose to overlook. While there are many problems the main problem is the one that makes what I think you have correct to be true: the mindset of the players. Let me explain.
For some reason, players have come to equate level progression and having the 'best' equipment as success in the game. In WoW we saw this with the whole gearscore issue, but there is more to it than that. Because players have come to equate success in this way there is the extreme prevalence of 'min-maxing,' viz. putting in the least amount of work possible for the maximum possible reward. On the one hand this is smart, after all the idea of work smarter and not harder makes a hell of a lot of sense. On the other hand it's incredibly follish to devolve recreation into sheer numbers, which is exactly what min-maxing is and nothing other than that.
In other words, players are working at the game instead of playing it. Don't misunderstand, natural skill aside one does have to practice to get better and ultimately playing more is practicing. However, the nature of min-max thinking is that it is purely and nothing but work; players aren't practicing to get better at parts of the game but working. They're 'farming' or 'speed running' or whatever else you may want to call it, and this is simply not equivalent to focusing on leveling up. It's not semantics, there is a difference and it is all in the mindset of the player.
Whatever you're playing, it's all a part of how you play the game and the mindset you bring to it. Some games are bad, no getting around that, but anyone can make even a good game terrible by treating it like it's some sort of job instead of something that they either enjoy to relax or are passionately devoted to.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain.
(2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
I don't only play Lotro.
Other games like EvE, Ryzom, Guild wars, DDO and Anarchy Online offer great gameplay imo.
The genre is known for slower combat. Its an acquired taste ill give it that but so are other forms of gameplay.
Fun is subjective. When im not playing mmos I enjoy Manic shooters and Space trading sims.
Everyone is different, I dont even try to question what people find fun anymore.
I mean, there are people in this world that consider collecting miniture stuffed animals exciting...
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
The dirty secret of MMOs: the bulk of players are Achiever-type personalities, and developers have discovered that Achievers will perform repetitive activities that aren't actually fun if there is a reward at the end of it.
I don't share your view that all or even most of MMO's gameplay isn't fun, but you have to be watchful if you want to avoid being sucked into un-fun activities without noticing that it is happening.
I get what your saying but......
I like EVE because i can do other stuff while playing. It is slow but i can surf the web or watch tv or read while playing it....which i like. So that is why i don't want to play a game like FE because it requires my un-devided attention.
so yeah that is the reason why i like EVE even though its "boring"
Playing: PO, EVE
Waiting for: WoD
Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO
Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
Not to mention that alot of mmos out today are catered to the single player experience. Massively Single Player Roleplaying Games.
And will pay 15 bucks a month for the privilege. A lot of MMOs are massively exploitive or try to be, which is probably why the industry is not doing so well overall. Few large successes as they all try to figure out how to exploit the same small population.
We're going to have to accept what the genre has evolved into.
The gamers have spoken, THey want a massively SP RPG.
Just like every damn military shooter has turned into this progressive weapon upgrading/buying shit storm we must accept change if we want to continue with this genre.
If not, you have other options.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Yes it "sucks" but can't argue with the truth...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
I hope some day RPGs, of any type, get back to the role playing roots only in a evolved sense. Players shouldn't be asking pre-written questions or participate in a world that will always be the same no matter the outcome of quest A or quest B. Players should be asking their own questions and setting off events that could cascade all the way to something as drastic as the redemption of the world or the next dark age.
I'm not satisfied at the moment with current MMORPGs version of "Role playing" being that I'm playing as a magician and that's it.
AI developement needs a lot more work so that we as players can interact with NPCs as if they were fellow players. That way players can truely feel like the "Heroes or Heroines" they're supposed to be instead of feeling like another cookie cutter goof off beating up (or getting beat up by) rabbits and warthogs for some measly coin.
Yeah, that's why I like FE, people care less about gear and Min/maxing because the lvling is the game, not the pre-game.
They are trying to work out how to satisfy casual players actually, because scheduling your life around an MMO sucks. I'll grant that some of the solutions have not been perfect, but this is one of the less stagnant areas.
Yeah, i'd like a game that I can have fun playing even if I only play 45 minutes-and hour a day.
On the comment about min-maxers who make the game work. I honestly never understood the motivation of doing such a thing. What are they trying to accomplish by burning through the game so fast? Are they just trying to get to the endgame? But then they basically just do the same thing there, so it doesn't seem like they even want to have fun...it defies all logic.
Yeah, I can see that. But to me that's sorta why I don't like it. It feels like a glorified screensaver or something.
the difference with mmos and other games is you not only improve your skill but you makes "investments"
these investments themselves give you much of your power.
make the right investments and you don't need to strain as much over being quick with skill
you can just sit back and enjoy in your smart investment making skills.
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
I think part of the issue is that some players are perhaps not investing in using their imagination?
Look at when you were a kid. Matchbox cars or army men, etc.
What did they do? nothing. Army men were just static pices of molded plastic. matchbox cars did have wheels but didn't actually do anything.
but, apply that imgaination and you were storming beaches or taking down your plastic Tyrannasaurus or racing down speed ways or chasing spies.
Same with mmo gameplay. If you aren't applying your imagination to what is going on then I can easily see why you are bored.
For me, I'm not whacking on mobs and then rinsing and repeating, I can tell you that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Bah, that was all scripted.
Assume makes an ass of both U and me, you may not be having fun but alot do, I personally don't play any game if it isn't fun.
Eve
(Exploring)Eve has one of the most beautiful graphics engines out there, i've visited most of the monuments i've scanned down wierd shaped asteroids and strange anomolies sometimes if i'm in a mellow mood i'll crank the in game music up and just go see where the gates take me..
(PVE missions)it all depends how you play them, if you see them as an afk grind then yes but why would you do that ? YOU personally chose to fit out a ship that could do missions/plex's semi afk but you blame the game..The only time i've ever fitted a semi afk build for mish's was so I could use the lookat command and see every prrty explosion as my missiles hit the enemy, apart from that I will take a bc over a BS a cruiser over a Bc and i'll stay active in the mission, i'll roleplay it, if i'm in my minmatar char and the mission has a load of amar prefabs etc even if the mission doesn't call for it i'll blow those bastards to hell.
(PVP)Every time I leave dock I class the ship i'm flying as lost actually this is pretty much a mantra in eve "don't undock in anything you can't affort AND accept loosing" we don't want to loose it we don't plan on loosing it but its a very important lesson, I once kitted out my carrier in cheap equipment basically the full fit + insurance meant I lost only 80m when it died, I set myself up in a 0.0 spot and solo camped a gate
, was soo much fun, completely insane and tactically unsound but I enjoyed myself, i've sat at a gate in a 250k efh typhoon letting the local pirates plink me down while singing in local...
The difference is, in a sand box mmo YOU make the fun, they give you the tools they give you the what if's but its you who hasto wake up and realise.
I've been playing eve for over 3 years and to me its still fun i've also done lots of serious stuff like alliance battles etc and pos bashing.
I dissagree i play wow and every night im either doing a raid old or new. Doing some pvp maybe some Bgs, arena maybe get some freinds go gurubashi arena? Some people in my guild need help leveling ill go run them through some instances or help them with a quest. Or i could go get some acheivment points for a new mount i want. People who dont have fun on MMOs dont have fun because they dont know how to. I play WoW about 3-4 hours a day not that much and im barley ever bored so i dont think its the MMOs i think its the people that play them >.>