What REALLY happened with Boomsticks

cirsyndic

Here is the summary of what happened:

~10 people made the dreaded "Boomsticks" and after an innovative brainstorm, decided to make an example just how EASY it is to get away with exploiting in MO. Naturally, AI - Dev's pet guild - was chosen as the target for this example. 2 houses of varying tiers with modules and a Gate were destroyed, total worth in-game translates roughly to 2,500 gold. The catch? This was done in ~1 hour and 30 minutes.

Here is the conversation with GM Discord (replaced other guy's name so he can laugh about it tomorrow):

[16:51] <Choppanko> We just destroyed 2 houses, which were low on HP

[16:52] <Choppanko> You are going to reimburse them, right?

[16:54] <[GM]Discord> I don't know yet

[16:54] <[GM]Discord> I am talking to the CEO

[16:55] <[Choppanko> We know that the CEO is in that guild

[16:56] <[GM]Discord> What?

[16:56] <Choppanko> A friend of mine told me, that you told that Henrik is in AI

[16:56] <Choppanko> I saw the logs

[16:57] <[GM]Discord> Don't belive everything you read

[16:58] <Choppanko> It funny when something of AI gets destroyed Henrik appears, first the CBI keep spot, now this shit

[16:58] <Choppanko> We just brought 50 subs back to Mortal, which we are going to take back if houses are reimbursed

[16:59] <[GM]Discord> your not hearing what I said

[16:59] <[GM]Discord> at all

[16:59] <[GM]Discord> They are affected by the bug, there is no deyning that

[17:00] <Choppanko> Make it more clear, please, i'm russian

[17:00] <[GM]Discord> I don't care what guild they are in

[17:00] <Choppanko> What bug?

[17:00] <[GM]Discord> numbers do not matter to me

[17:00] <[GM]Discord> They are freely attackable by the ones they declared war on

[17:00] <[GM]Discord> This is not how it is supposed to work

[17:00] <Choppanko> What are we talking about?

[17:01] <[GM]Discord> you claim that AI or something

[17:01] <Choppanko> There is no war between AI and us

[17:01] <[GM]Discord> I did not deal with AI

[17:01] <[GM]Discord> is Nearth AI? you went off on AI I have no idea why you even brought them up

[17:01] <Choppanko> We haven't killed a single AI, we just destroyed the houses during early hours

[17:01] <Choppanko> Henrik is AI, Naerth is another case

[17:02] <Choppanko> We are talking about 2 houses we just destroyed

[17:02] <[GM]Discord> Henrik does not have time to be in any guild

[17:02] <Choppanko> Forget Naerth

[17:04] <Choppanko> Let's start again

[17:04] <Choppanko> We just destroyed 2 houses inside Talusian Alliance keep spot

[17:04] <Choppanko> Are you going to reimburse them?

[17:05] <[GM]Discord> Don't know yet

[17:05] <Choppanko> When you gonna know?

[17:07] <Choppanko> If you talking to CEO, tell him, that if houses are reimbursed, then he can kiss 50 subs goodbye

[17:07] <Choppanko> We have everything on fraps, screenshots etc.

[17:08] <Choppanko> And we'll make forums post, so everyone can see that when AI loses anything they get everything back, like they did in Beta

[17:13] <Choppanko> I would appreciate you keeping me updated, cause I have lots of people in voice comm raging

[17:18] <Choppanko> Lots of players waiting

[17:22] <Choppanko> I really ask you to keep me updated, so we can react adequately

[17:23] <[GM]Discord> we are discussing

Now, what happened afterwards?

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/55456-over-power-weapons.html

To quote the important part (in case post "vanishes")

"This has been fixed for the newly created weapons, anyone affected by the old ones will not be reimbursed as they still acted as a sledge hammer would. For the ones currently in game we ask you delete them."

What really happened in that "discussion" with the CEO? He did the math, he can't afford to lose 50 subs. Now, after this post is read they'll maybe refund the guild who got served; but this example of their mentality with dealing with exploits will remain for ALL to see. "Retain subs at ANY cost!"

And a very juicy part of the Chat-Log, which brings my point to a close:

[18:15] <Choppanko> Is it possible to just wipe these beatsticks from the server

[18:15] <Choppanko> ?

[18:16] <[GM]Discord> wipe out of the database is dangerous

[18:16] <Choppanko> Oh, and thank you by the way, I really hope no reparaitions will be made

[18:16] <[GM]Discord> no reason to thank me

[18:17] <[GM]Discord> I only followed what Henrik said to do

If wiping out some weapons from the Database is dangerous (which they tried to do btw the next day, and ended up deleting EVERY melee weapon in-game), what are the odds of 650k duped rubars getting deleted from the database? I wouldn't put money on it.

ElderRat

Originally posted by cirsyndic

Here is the summary of what happened:

~10 people made the dreaded "Boomsticks" and after an innovative brainstorm, decided to make an example just how EASY it is to get away with exploiting in MO. Naturally, AI - Dev's pet guild - was chosen as the target for this example. 2 houses of varying tiers with modules and a Gate were destroyed, total worth in-game translates roughly to 2,500 gold. The catch? This was done in ~1 hour and 30 minutes.

Here is the conversation with GM Discord (replaced other guy's name so he can laugh about it tomorrow):

[16:51] We just destroyed 2 houses, which were low on HP

[16:52] You are going to reimburse them, right?

[16:54] <[GM]Discord> I don't know yet

[16:54] <[GM]Discord> I am talking to the CEO

[16:55] <[Choppanko> We know that the CEO is in that guild

[16:56] <[GM]Discord> What?

[16:56] A friend of mine told me, that you told that Henrik is in AI

[16:56] I saw the logs

[16:57] <[GM]Discord> Don't belive everything you read

[16:58] It funny when something of AI gets destroyed Henrik appears, first the CBI keep spot, now this shit

[16:58] We just brought 50 subs back to Mortal, which we are going to take back if houses are reimbursed

[16:59] <[GM]Discord> your not hearing what I said

[16:59] <[GM]Discord> at all

[16:59] <[GM]Discord> They are affected by the bug, there is no deyning that

[17:00] Make it more clear, please, i'm russian

[17:00] <[GM]Discord> I don't care what guild they are in

[17:00] What bug?

[17:00] <[GM]Discord> numbers do not matter to me

[17:00] <[GM]Discord> They are freely attackable by the ones they declared war on

[17:00] <[GM]Discord> This is not how it is supposed to work

[17:00] What are we talking about?

[17:01] <[GM]Discord> you claim that AI or something

[17:01] There is no war between AI and us

[17:01] <[GM]Discord> I did not deal with AI

[17:01] <[GM]Discord> is Nearth AI? you went off on AI I have no idea why you even brought them up

[17:01] We haven't killed a single AI, we just destroyed the houses during early hours

[17:01] Henrik is AI, Naerth is another case

[17:02] We are talking about 2 houses we just destroyed

[17:02] <[GM]Discord> Henrik does not have time to be in any guild

[17:02] Forget Naerth

[17:04] Let's start again

[17:04] We just destroyed 2 houses inside Talusian Alliance keep spot

[17:04] Are you going to reimburse them?

[17:05] <[GM]Discord> Don't know yet

[17:05] When you gonna know?

[17:07] If you talking to CEO, tell him, that if houses are reimbursed, then he can kiss 50 subs goodbye

[17:07] We have everything on fraps, screenshots etc.

[17:08] And we'll make forums post, so everyone can see that when AI loses anything they get everything back, like they did in Beta

[17:13] I would appreciate you keeping me updated, cause I have lots of people in voice comm raging

[17:18] Lots of players waiting

[17:22] I really ask you to keep me updated, so we can react adequately

[17:23] <[GM]Discord> we are discussing

Now, what happened afterwards?

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/55456-over-power-weapons.html

To quote the important part (in case post "vanishes")

"This has been fixed for the newly created weapons, anyone affected by the old ones will not be reimbursed as they still acted as a sledge hammer would. For the ones currently in game we ask you delete them."

What really happened in that "discussion" with the CEO? He did the math, he can't afford to lose 50 subs. Now, after this post is read they'll maybe refund the guild who got served; but this example of their mentality with dealing with exploits will remain for ALL to see. "Retain subs at ANY cost!"

And a very juicy part of the Chat-Log, which brings my point to a close:

[18:15] Is it possible to just wipe these beatsticks from the server

[18:15] ?

[18:16] <[GM]Discord> wipe out of the database is dangerous

[18:16] Oh, and thank you by the way, I really hope no reparaitions will be made

[18:16] <[GM]Discord> no reason to thank me

[18:17] <[GM]Discord> I only followed what Henrik said to do

If wiping out some weapons from the Database is dangerous (which they tried to do btw the next day, and ended up deleting EVERY melee weapon in-game), what are the odds of 650k duped rubars getting deleted from the database? I wouldn't put money on it.

and you are still playing this game why?

 

sandolainen

My name is unimportant and I approve of this message!

jimbo775

"From this day forward you can not use the ones currently in the world on structures you will be banned if you do."

LOL

Impressive how these idiots have no control whatsoever... "deleting items from a database is dangerous".

Shut this whole joke down, NOW

Qunitillian

Thanks for this intel Syndic. Yeah, I find the favouritism a concern. However, not being able to manipulate their own database is even more of a worry. That database must be a right mess!! Now, how the hell can anyone put credence into their promise to introduce those more advanced features?!?! Most of you know, I hope, that such advanced features from a database standpoint are more complex than simple item associations?

Benthon

 

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Originally posted by jimbo775

Impressive how these idiots have no control whatsoever... "deleting items from a database is dangerous".

---

 

This is just hilarious and shows how amateur they are. I worked with SQL, .Net and databasing for months. Deleting items from a database isn't that dangerous as you're constantly backed up. Maybe it's dangerous because SV has no idea what they're doing at all.

rhinok

Originally posted by Benthon

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Originally posted by jimbo775

Impressive how these idiots have no control whatsoever... "deleting items from a database is dangerous".

This is just hilarious and shows how amateur they are. I worked with SQL, .Net and databasing for months. Deleting items from a database isn't that dangerous as you're constantly backed up. Maybe it's dangerous because SV has no idea what they're doing at all.

In general, deleting a record from a database table (an item table, for example) isn't difficult.  That being said, the concern isn't just with items in a specific table, but in all of the dependent tables, as well.  Unfortunately, MMO databases aren't perfectly relational, which contributes to the complexity of the situation.  It may be that SV simply doesn't have the expertise (and given their patch history, that's probably likely), to do what's necessary to resolve the issue without adversely affecting the game further. 

~Ripper

Qunitillian

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Originally posted by rhinok

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Originally posted by Benthon

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Originally posted by jimbo775
Impressive how these idiots have no control whatsoever... "deleting items from a database is dangerous".

---

This is just hilarious and shows how amateur they are. I worked with SQL, .Net and databasing for months. Deleting items from a database isn't that dangerous as you're constantly backed up. Maybe it's dangerous because SV has no idea what they're doing at all.

---

In general, deleting a record from a database table (an item table, for example) isn't difficult.  That being said, the concern isn't just with items in a specific table, but in all of the dependent tables, as well.  Unfortunately, MMO databases aren't perfectly relational, which contributes to the complexity of the situation.  It may be that SV simply doesn't have the expertise (and given their patch history, that's probably likely), to do what's necessary to resolve the issue without adversely affecting the game further. 
~Ripper

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IMO, just more evidence that they should re-develop with the another package (Hero engine --> I think I am saying this far too often on these boards LOL).

Excalaber2

Oh good LORD.  You cannot delete a single type of weapon from your database without deleting all of it's parent types? (melee weapons)?  I would dread seeing that database.  They probably have hundreds of columns and no normalization what-so-ever.  I just wanted to chime in as I work with databases every day and I've seen dependancies cause problems...but it doesn't take rocket scientist to fix the data.   I can't believe I backed this company so much

SHOE788

Originally posted by rhinok

Originally posted by Benthon

---

Originally posted by jimbo775

Impressive how these idiots have no control whatsoever... "deleting items from a database is dangerous".

This is just hilarious and shows how amateur they are. I worked with SQL, .Net and databasing for months. Deleting items from a database isn't that dangerous as you're constantly backed up. Maybe it's dangerous because SV has no idea what they're doing at all.

In general, deleting a record from a database table (an item table, for example) isn't difficult.  That being said, the concern isn't just with items in a specific table, but in all of the dependent tables, as well.  Unfortunately, MMO databases aren't perfectly relational, which contributes to the complexity of the situation.  It may be that SV simply doesn't have the expertise (and given their patch history, that's probably likely), to do what's necessary to resolve the issue without adversely affecting the game further. 

~Ripper

 It can't be that hard. Each unique item should have an opcode associated with it. Any experienced developer would develop an api so that you can query all of those items that are distributed amongst all the players.

This is just a case of crappy developers.

HanoverZ

So much for cleaning up the duped stuff, MO already needs a wipe!

Hodo

So glad I quit paying for this pile of shit.   I used to think CRS was incompetent but I was wrong, at least DOC knows how to code.   Henrik cant code his way out of a 8bit Nintindo game.

DLangley

Please do create threads on topics already being discussed. Locked.