the war on microtransactions: we win the remap battle but the war is not over

cosy

You've probably all seen or heard about the changes that hit the test server last month where you could buy a neural remap (redistribution of attributes) with a PLEX. The ensuing community discussion and a whole heap of Council of Stellar Management discussions we had, both during their visit to CCP earlier in October and, through the magic of the internet, has led us to revisit that specific change and helped us form a holistic strategy for virtual goods sales moving forward.

Phew, that was a long sentence.

 

There are two things we want to communicate in this blog, in response to all the discussion that's been going on:

First, we've decided to shelve all the changes to neural remaps we had planned. We now have no plans to change things from the way they are currently on Tranquility. No PLEX for remaps, no ISK for remaps, nothing. All code has been reverted, no new code has been written. Nothing will change.

Second, we wanted to explain our thinking a little more. It‘s always been the intent of CCP to continue diversifying EVE Online's business model and we‘ve been looking at various options to do so. This started with the introduction of PLEX, which was an innovative way for players to exchange in-game assets for subscription on a fully player driven marketplace. Since we introduced the PLEX item we've monitored its trading, price and velocity closely. It's now time for us to take the next evolutionary step.

It‘s clear that it‘s the will of the community to keep virtual goods sales outside the spectrum of what we classify as the "merit economy". That refers to skills gained over time or items that have a gameplay impact. So after discussions, designs, brainstorming and all sorts of processes we‘ve come up with a strategy that we‘ve already polished with the help of the CSM and would now want to present to the larger community.

Virtual goods sales in EVE Online will evolve through sales of vanity items, first in Incarna but later in-space features. The scope will be (and there‘s no design be done around this, we‘re just talking strategy now) that anything that doesn‘t affect gameplay directly can be, potentially, sold for PLEX or other means. Ideas that have come up include Incarna clothing and furniture, logos on spaceships and swapping out portraits. This is by no means a comprehensive list, nor is it a commitment that said items will be available for sale, I mention these as an example for what type of items we‘re thinking about.

It‘s important to clarify that virtual goods sales isn‘t an arbitrary - or particularly greedy - decision. There is a constantly decreasing number of MMO‘s out there that don‘t incorporate virtual goods sales at some level. - games that aren't responding to this trend are dying out. Diversifying the business model allows us to offer our players the services and features they desire in ways that are conducive to how they wish to spend their entertainment dollars. The result is that we provide a wider range of options to our subscribers which, in turn, leaves us better positioned to react to future seismic shifts in the market.

If we don‘t react to the wishes of the market we will simply become the dinosaurs of the industry. And everyone knows what happens to dinosaurs. God makes them disappear. Through MAGIC.

 

CCP Zulu

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=815

we win the battle against PLEX for remap now we have another battle to make against CCP greedy behavior, CCP wants to trap your real money in the game, CCP can print the unlimited amount of virtual goods at no cost and your money will be chained to that virtual item until the game close or you dont pay your subscription, there is no way to get ur money back even if you own the item

 

 

So CCP wants you to pay the montly subcription and pay for virtual items, i only can say FU CCP, MMO's that have micro transaction dont have subcription plan, i mean World Of Tanks dont have subscription plans etc etc

Einherjar_LC

Wall of text crits you for 9834268741567430 points of eye strain damage......

cosy

Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

Wall of text crits you for 9834268741567430 points of eye strain damage......

take put some damage control on that eye

Hekket

Whew...maybe this will stop the steady rise in price for PLEX.

Nearing 400m now for one those things...

miagisan

Originally posted by Hekket

Whew...maybe this will stop the steady rise in price for PLEX.

Nearing 400m now for one those things...

i hope they go higher

Kyleran

Good news overall, but this statement reeks of pure bullshit.

It‘s important to clarify that virtual goods sales isn‘t an arbitrary - or particularly greedy - decision. There is a constantly decreasing number of MMO‘s out there that don‘t incorporate virtual goods sales at some level. - games that aren't responding to this trend are dying out. Diversifying the business model allows us to offer our players the services and features they desire in ways that are conducive to how they wish to spend their entertainment dollars. The result is that we provide a wider range of options to our subscribers which, in turn, leaves us better positioned to react to future seismic shifts in the market.

As if any game is dying due to a lack of incorporating virtual goods, just plain nonsense.  He had it right in the opener, the addition of virtual goods most certainly isn't arbitrary, however it is definitely driven by economic motives, greed for a lack of a better word.

Gordon Gecko would be proud.

Wraithone

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Hekket

Whew...maybe this will stop the steady rise in price for PLEX.

Nearing 400m now for one those things...

i hope they go higher

Same here.  Isn't capitalism great?

Wraithone

Originally posted by Kyleran

Good news overall, but this statement reeks of pure bullshit.

It‘s important to clarify that virtual goods sales isn‘t an arbitrary - or particularly greedy - decision. There is a constantly decreasing number of MMO‘s out there that don‘t incorporate virtual goods sales at some level. - games that aren't responding to this trend are dying out. Diversifying the business model allows us to offer our players the services and features they desire in ways that are conducive to how they wish to spend their entertainment dollars. The result is that we provide a wider range of options to our subscribers which, in turn, leaves us better positioned to react to future seismic shifts in the market.

As if any game is dying due to a lack of incorporating virtual goods, just plain nonsense.  He had it right in the opener, the addition of virtual goods most certainly isn't arbitrary, however it is definitely driven by economic motives, greed for a lack of a better word.

Gordon Gecko would be proud.

I would certainly hope so... "Greed IS Good". Nothing wrong with enlightened self interest.  Its when one mixes in government power that things go seriously wrong. 

When its more cost effective to buy politicians, than it is to compete in a given free market sector, thats when the ignorant start speaking of "market failures".

What WAY too many people forget before they lapse into hysterics over microtransactions(or F2P dynamics) is that no one is forcing you to take part.

AlysenMinase

I hope they don't go through with this. A lot of players aren't liking the idea of Incarna, but adding micro-transactions to it can only make the raging worse.

DevilXaphan

I really don't see a big problem but as long as the player base is diligent in making sure that CCP does not introduce game breaking items i see only the player base accepting to buy vanity stuff or not. Change is a strange thing at first but it can also be for the good of the game.

Would have to wait and see when they inplement such a change, what the impact would be.

Kaisen_Dexx

If this goes through I will cancel my subscription. I am a firm believer that the subscription fee alone should entitle me and everyone else the opportunity to attain all items or customizations in the game.

PLEX already straddled the line between barely acceptable and unacceptable. This pushes them over.

Czargio

I don't really buy the "We're only doing it cause everyone else is doing it and we just wanted to be popular" reasoning, but I'm not really surprised. Eve doesn't really lend itself to vanity items in my opinion, and I wouldn't imagine the playerbase is as interested in buying them as CCP may think they are, but to me it's not a big deal. 

Plex for remaps? That would have been a big deal.

cosy

CCP know that Encarna can be used mostly to make money on virtual items and services instead of leting player craft and sell all avatar related items -and this is awesome for the economy- CCP can provide a endless amout of awesome appealing items on the cash shop.

Lesta say for the sake or argument that one can use a PLEX on the cashshop then lets say 100 cash shop points and buy virtual items, anything that is purchased using PLEX create the illusion that you dont buy stuff whit real money because you can buy the PLEX for ISK from the market, CCP will try to add stuff and ways to remove PLEX for the game so they wont need to provide service, each PLEX used or wasted in game is free money for CCP.  

comerb

Originally posted by Czargio

 Eve doesn't really lend itself to vanity items in my opinion

It does with Incarna.  

I'm fine with Vanity items.  And Eve's playerbase isn't likely to let anything more significant slip by without screaming bloody murder.

Gdemami

Plex for remaps was really bad idea. Not that because cash shops are evil but for same reason remaps as such are bad. It beats the purpose of attribute system.

What's the point in distributing your attribute points when you can remap them (anytime)?

It is same type of silliness as Learning skills.

itchmon

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by Kyleran

Good news overall, but this statement reeks of pure bullshit.

It‘s important to clarify that virtual goods sales isn‘t an arbitrary - or particularly greedy - decision. There is a constantly decreasing number of MMO‘s out there that don‘t incorporate virtual goods sales at some level. - games that aren't responding to this trend are dying out. Diversifying the business model allows us to offer our players the services and features they desire in ways that are conducive to how they wish to spend their entertainment dollars. The result is that we provide a wider range of options to our subscribers which, in turn, leaves us better positioned to react to future seismic shifts in the market.

As if any game is dying due to a lack of incorporating virtual goods, just plain nonsense.  He had it right in the opener, the addition of virtual goods most certainly isn't arbitrary, however it is definitely driven by economic motives, greed for a lack of a better word.

Gordon Gecko would be proud.

I would certainly hope so... "Greed IS Good". Nothing wrong with enlightened self interest.  Its when one mixes in government power that things go seriously wrong. 

When its more cost effective to buy politicians, than it is to compete in a given free market sector, thats when the ignorant start speaking of "market failures".

What WAY too many people forget before they lapse into hysterics over microtransactions(or F2P dynamics) is that no one is forcing you to take part.

Ms Rand, I thought you were dead....

sadeyx

Originally posted by Kaisen_Dexx

If this goes through I will cancel my subscription. I am a firm believer that the subscription fee alone should entitle me and everyone else the opportunity to attain all items or customizations in the game.

PLEX already straddled the line between barely acceptable and unacceptable. This pushes them over.

Well, for starters..  like me you probably dont pay for your subscription at all.    So I dont care at ALL about what should be included in my 'subscription' on eve.  since I pay nothing.

For games where there is no other way to subscribe, but to pay real money,  I would agree 100%, however since Wow players have overwhelmingly made it acceptable in the western MMO, there is no avoiding it.  so I can decide to accept it or decide to not play MMO's at all, any more.    Maybe buy a new Call of Duty every 3 months?

 

Second, the biggest complain, the biggest and most damaging problems for all MMO players and companies are gold sellers,  they cause bots, they cause hacks, they desroy the economy in-game meaning people have to buy gold in order to buy stuff and is a never ending cycle.   The PLEX system is the only REAL system which fights gold sellers.   The price of ISK in Eve from a gold seller is only marginally cheaper.. and with out the risk of your account being hacked and losing everything.

So, saying that the plex system is 'barely acceptable' its a very dramatic display of ignorance.

Wraithone

Originally posted by itchmon

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by Kyleran

Good news overall, but this statement reeks of pure bullshit.

It‘s important to clarify that virtual goods sales isn‘t an arbitrary - or particularly greedy - decision. There is a constantly decreasing number of MMO‘s out there that don‘t incorporate virtual goods sales at some level. - games that aren't responding to this trend are dying out. Diversifying the business model allows us to offer our players the services and features they desire in ways that are conducive to how they wish to spend their entertainment dollars. The result is that we provide a wider range of options to our subscribers which, in turn, leaves us better positioned to react to future seismic shifts in the market.

As if any game is dying due to a lack of incorporating virtual goods, just plain nonsense.  He had it right in the opener, the addition of virtual goods most certainly isn't arbitrary, however it is definitely driven by economic motives, greed for a lack of a better word.

Gordon Gecko would be proud.

I would certainly hope so... "Greed IS Good". Nothing wrong with enlightened self interest.  Its when one mixes in government power that things go seriously wrong. 

When its more cost effective to buy politicians, than it is to compete in a given free market sector, thats when the ignorant start speaking of "market failures".

What WAY too many people forget before they lapse into hysterics over microtransactions(or F2P dynamics) is that no one is forcing you to take part.

Ms Rand, I thought you were dead....

 

Oh she is. But some of her observations(self interest and such) are truths that others have discovered as well.  Mise, Rothbard and Rockwell come to mind in that regard.  Its always been amusing that those who go on(and on...) about "greed" have no problem what so ever using other peoples money(through politicians) to achieve their personal goals. ^^

Self interest is much more honest and up front.  CCP isn't doing anything to be concerned about as far as I can see.  But attempting to explain that to some, is rather fruitless.

Daffid011

Originally posted by DevilXaphan

I really don't see a big problem but as long as the player base is diligent in making sure that CCP does not introduce game breaking items i see only the player base accepting to buy vanity stuff or not. Change is a strange thing at first but it can also be for the good of the game.

Would have to wait and see when they inplement such a change, what the impact would be.

Why not tell the company you don't want this in game right now so that players don't have to police what gets put into the cash shop in the future?  Why wait to see what happens when you can just eliminate the potential for something to go wrong right now?  Just look at what their first idea was and how much impact that could have on the game.  I don't think it is a matter of if, but a matter of when.

Not that eve is dying and ccp just now realized it needs microtransactions to save it.  CCP just wants more money for doing the same amount of work and giving players less in return. 

mrw0lf

I don't play EvE, maybe those that do can explain how a game that is largely famed for haveing a successful, complex player run economy and 100% craftable universe can keep it's usp with this and how it will/will not impact on the economy as a whole. Some earlier poster said he hopes PLEX conversion will rise further, surely with this that is guarenteed no?

Also a lot of the games moveing to items malls are games that couldn't survive as p2p, they are basically making the transition because they have nothing to lose. EvE on the other hand is in the position that they desire and is already profitable or are the 300k population claims exaggerated?

Elsabolts

Originally posted by mrw0lf

I don't play EvE, maybe those that do can explain how a game that is largely famed for haveing a successful, complex player run economy and 100% craftable universe can keep it's usp with this and how it will/will not impact on the economy as a whole. Some earlier poster said he hopes PLEX conversion will rise further, surely with this that is guarenteed no?

Also a lot of the games moveing to items malls are games that couldn't survive as p2p, they are basically making the transition because they have nothing to lose. EvE on the other hand is in the position that they desire and is already profitable or are the 300k population claims exaggerated?

 The playing feild is not level and the long time players and corps know this. Item malls will be added when subs start to dwindle. Business is Business all have a bottom line.

Gdemami

---

Originally posted by mrw0lf
I don't play EvE, maybe those that do can explain how a game that is largely famed for haveing a successful, complex player run economy and 100% craftable universe can keep it's usp with this and how it will/will not impact on the economy as a whole.

---

RMT would be happening, with or without PLEX.

The important thing is that the ISK do not spawn in the system. You still trade your real money for ingame money that are already there. That means it does not cause increased inflation.

It is juts another commodity on the market. Just instead of ingame mechanics, it is spawned by out of game activity.

---

Originally posted by mrw0lf

Also a lot of the games moveing to items malls are games that couldn't survive as p2p, they are basically making the transition because they have nothing to lose. EvE on the other hand is in the position that they desire and is already profitable or are the 300k population claims exaggerated?

---

Everyone is looking how to increase their revenues, 'dying' P2P or not.

Mokwee

CCP has its hand in the RMT trade in eve. They allow botting. GM/DEV favoritism with one and only 1 alliance..... Glaring holes in patches/fixes that honestly hurt more than they help.

 

I used to have my hand in botting and the RMT side.... I can safely say RMT and botting contribute to CCP's profits. Im pretty sure we call them kickbacks. I like the term bribe.

 

The whole UI is configured to help botting programs and macros....

 

Eve isnt worth a sub at this point and now they are going the micro model in game. Give it a year, plex for remaps will be back on the table.

 

So WoW up to lich king content 20$ sale >>>> Eve online 20$ new character

 

eve sucks i made quite a bit off my 12bil isk sale :P

mklinic

I guess my thread title from the 22nd wasn't catchy enough (No Remaps for PLEX, but....), so I'll discuss it here.

I'm not a big fan of item shops. I thought the PLEX for remaps was a neat idea as it would provide some level of rebuttal to the infamous "it takes forever to do 'x'" discussions. Certainly, it would also introduce some concerns, but really that's a whole thread on its own.

Overall, this just piles on a theme lately. I mean, much less 'in your face' would be the ability to transport, and subsequently destroy, PLEX. Now, the PLEX can be purchased and destroyed without CCP rendering any further service for it. The semi-recent kestrel kill is probably the posterchild for this.There's no real guarantee that destructible PLEX means more people will spend real money on PLEX (versus the cost of existing PLEX just going up), but I'm sure they expect some increased revenue from it.

Don't take this as bitching about that change. I really don't mind it and player precautions can mitigate any risk. It just seems like CCP has their eye out on how they can increase income lately and this is just another idea along those lines. It's encouraging they have listened to their customers to some extent and that they are making an apparent effort at transparency.

I wonder, if EvE gets an item mall in the semi-near future, would WoD/DUST start out with one? Or maybe that is already the plan.

Einherjar_LC

Originally posted by cosy

Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

Wall of text crits you for 9834268741567430 points of eye strain damage......

take put some damage control on that eye

Hehe, done.

 

Thanks for bringing this up.  It'll be interesting to see how this all pans out.

 

DevilXaphan

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by DevilXaphan

I really don't see a big problem but as long as the player base is diligent in making sure that CCP does not introduce game breaking items i see only the player base accepting to buy vanity stuff or not. Change is a strange thing at first but it can also be for the good of the game.

Would have to wait and see when they inplement such a change, what the impact would be.

Why not tell the company you don't want this in game right now so that players don't have to police what gets put into the cash shop in the future?  Why wait to see what happens when you can just eliminate the potential for something to go wrong right now?  Just look at what their first idea was and how much impact that could have on the game.  I don't think it is a matter of if, but a matter of when.

Not that eve is dying and ccp just now realized it needs microtransactions to save it.  CCP just wants more money for doing the same amount of work and giving players less in return. 

No matter what it's going in eventually so players should have a say in what goes into it. If CCP is true to it's word about working with the players then they will listen.