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WoW needs new classes

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  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806

    Originally posted by Foomerang

    From a pvp viewpoint, i dont want more classes. 10 classes at 3 specs each totaling hundreds of skills is a ridiculous challenge to balance. I think thats half the reason they got rid of hybrid talent builds. Id like to see them balance what they have before adding more classes to the mix.

    Given the experience of the last six years, they would NEVER add another class then. ^^  They never seem able to keep their damn hands off of a given class. I suspect they have long since forgotten the difference between spread sheet numbers, and what makes a class *fun* to play.  They are so fixated on making PvP an esport, that all they can see is their endless data arrays.

    Years ago they should have separated PvP and PvE. Then they could run their endless nerf and buff cycle in PvP, without screwing up PvE.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806

    Originally posted by Wolfy2449

    Originally posted by mmogawd

    Originally posted by DevilXaphan

    You been drinking the spiked Kool-Aid? Why would you want new classes to unbalance the already unstable class system there is?

    They are just getting to the point of balancing classes already and you want to throw in more confusion.

    Balance is stupid.  Not all classes should be as powerful as each other.  They should have pluses and minuses, and rolls to fulfill. 

    Yes so you get pwned by a noob because he plays the counter class... thats the stupidity of rock paper scissors system

     

    Unbalanced pvp=fun because weak and skilless players get to "win"

    Fair 1v1 pvp=difficult but fun when you win a close balanced match, but many people simply cant play competitively and just throw the i just want to have fun argument so they base the game for casuals so they can win in everything in some way

    FUN should be the MAIN focus of any game. Its what keeps the players playing and paying. "Balance" is an illusion thats been fostered by the FPS PvP crowd mentality.  Ask any three players what "balance" is, and you will get four answers. ^^

    Blizzard has LONG since demonstrated that they are so fixated on their spread sheets, that they have lost track of what makes a class fun to play.  Their ETERNAL quest for "balance" has resulted in entire classes being nerfed into the ground.  Then they have to buff them(because so many people have stopped playing that class). Then the cycle repeats...Endlessly.

    If I want "balance" I'll go play an FPS game like UT3 or Quake4.  Or one like Global Agenda thats so phobic about gear, that their "epics" aren't much better than base.  Other than that, I'll focus on games that are fun.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • Ralphie2449Ralphie2449 Member UncommonPosts: 577

    Originally posted by Wraithone

    FUN should be the MAIN focus of any game. Its what keeps the players playing and paying. "Balance" is an illusion thats been fostered by the FPS PvP crowd mentality.  Ask any three players what "balance" is, and you will get four answers. ^^

    Blizzard has LONG since demonstrated that they are so fixated on their spread sheets, that they have lost track of what makes a class fun to play.  Their ETERNAL quest for "balance" has resulted in entire classes being nerfed into the ground.  Then they have to buff them(because so many people have stopped playing that class). Then the cycle repeats...Endlessly.

    If I want "balance" I'll go play an FPS game like UT3 or Quake4.  Or one like Global Agenda thats so phobic about gear, that their "epics" aren't much better than base.  Other than that, I'll focus on games that are fun.

    A deluted non gamer(no, playing games doesnt make you a gamer) can have fun in pretty much anything as long as it doesnt have technical issues(which makes them madlol). Casuals are not a group, they are free money, u advertise well, u add gimmicky and done, u got ppl that pay for your game even if it is fail...

    The skill based community is far more demanding though and isnt interested in casual unbalanced fail and should be one of the main focus of the game(since adding casual money stealing gameplay is easy) so it will have bigger population compared to casual only games.

     

    Perfect balance doesnt exist yes, but they can try make it as balanced as possible compared to games that are made to be unbalanced and make the losers happy because they allow them to win one-sided battles.

    And of course you will get 4 different answers from 4 different people cause randoms are randoms and bad at playing the game, if you ask the top players(the ones that arent trying to buff their class at least consiously or subconsiously) they will have a similar view of balance and will be able to discuss about why and how something must be changed. Balance can be found but its a slow progress especially in a game like wow which had 100 expansion changes in classes etc, it isnt as black and white as you say.

     

    And what about the people who dont want to play those games and prefer an rpg setting?

    I guess u dont like global agenda gear system. It is better system than wow since it makes the difference between higher level and lower level smaller therefore allowing more even pvp(i guess its like that in global agenda cause it doesnt have subscription, since gear progression=money stealing gameplay for subcription model though). But i guess you have fun by killing people which have 10x less health than you and makes you feel better...

  • ShadoedShadoed Member UncommonPosts: 1,459

    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Cloth wearing tank would be interesting.. Battle Mage?.. Monk artist?  However, the problem Blizzard has is that they nerfed all the class defining roles into over simplified Holy Trinity.. It would be hard to add more classes without adding in added class roles that would be useful such as support class that buffs and debuffs.. CC roles like a pure enchanter, it can crowd control ANYTHING.. etc etc.. The pulling role was detroyed because of carebear mobs only chase you 10 feet before they reset.. .. EQ1, those were the good ole days.. lol

    That sorta wraps up what i was getting at, within the current framework of the game there just isn't space to just drop in a couple of new classes, as interesting as it may be. It would be really nice to see the sort of things you speak about there, but i don't see them making wholesale changes to the formula in this title after this amount of time, especially as they already have another in the pipeline.

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • ShadoedShadoed Member UncommonPosts: 1,459

    Originally posted by mklinic
    I would have asked the same question before Death Knights were added. yet, they fill a niche and bring something to groups/raids. I would expect that another class could be designed that would ultimately provide its own utility as well despite the existence of the other classes that may overlap it some.
    Not being a huge lore buff, is there anything in the lore, or the pnp game, that indicates other classes? if so, would those classes have a translation to the MMO?

    DK's are still a largely shunned class in the game, even after this amount of time as there a few people who know how to use them correctly, firstly because they don't have the same learning curve as other classes and secondly because they have been messed about with so much since they joined the game.

    I enjoy playing my DK, but they didn't really bring anything new to the game as such, nothing that couldn't already have been filled by and warrior or paladin for the most part and because of that they have become the poor cousin to both those classes.

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • TazlorTazlor Member UncommonPosts: 864

    i would love to see a new class or two.  maybe even LESS balance.  this way i wont always get the "they're both just as good" answer.

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 4,050

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    But who says perfectly balancing the classes should be the primary goal of an MMORPG game.  I used to play DAOC and the classes there were wonderfully unbalanced at times, kept things interesting and fun.
    Yeah, except horrible class balance was one of the biggest complaints with DAoC and look where its at today.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,069

    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     



    Originally posted by Kyleran



    But who says perfectly balancing the classes should be the primary goal of an MMORPG game.  I used to play DAOC and the classes there were wonderfully unbalanced at times, kept things interesting and fun.



    Yeah, except horrible class balance was one of the biggest complaints with DAoC and look where its at today.

    There's a number of reasons behind DAOC's decline, but class balance, while oft complained about isn't a major reason behind its fall.  Most of us understood classes were balanced from a grouip vs group perspective and knew how to put together a good team.

    it took some effort to be sure, but that's what made it so good, and depending on the realm and classes you chose the playing experience could be quite different in both PVE and PVP.  You didn't have to deal with every situation in exactly the same way.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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  • japojapo Member Posts: 306

    Originally posted by mmogawd

    Originally posted by DevilXaphan

    You been drinking the spiked Kool-Aid? Why would you want new classes to unbalance the already unstable class system there is?

    They are just getting to the point of balancing classes already and you want to throw in more confusion.

    Balance is stupid.  Not all classes should be as powerful as each other.  They should have pluses and minuses, and rolls to fulfill. 

    Thank you!

     

    /signed

  • Frostbite05Frostbite05 Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,880

    Originally posted by japo

    Originally posted by mmogawd

    Originally posted by DevilXaphan

    You been drinking the spiked Kool-Aid? Why would you want new classes to unbalance the already unstable class system there is?

    They are just getting to the point of balancing classes already and you want to throw in more confusion.

    Balance is stupid.  Not all classes should be as powerful as each other.  They should have pluses and minuses, and rolls to fulfill. 

    Thank you!

     

    /signed

    LOL

  • NeVeRLiFtNeVeRLiFt Member UncommonPosts: 380

    Word is Blizz will be adding a monk class that can do hand to hand combat like the monks from "Scarlet Monastery"....

    Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD
    Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE
    Waiting on: Lost Ark
    Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?

  • mklinicmklinic Member RarePosts: 2,014

    Originally posted by jason_webb

     

    DK's are still a largely shunned class in the game, even after this amount of time as there a few people who know how to use them correctly, firstly because they don't have the same learning curve as other classes and secondly because they have been messed about with so much since they joined the game.

    I enjoy playing my DK, but they didn't really bring anything new to the game as such, nothing that couldn't already have been filled by and warrior or paladin for the most part and because of that they have become the poor cousin to both those classes.

    Bah, you could say them same of Hunters :P  Kidding aside, any class created is going to fit into the DPS/Tank/Healer format and will just be a different assortment of skills bundled in a different skin. So, looking at it that way, there's plenty of room for more classes.

    Now, DKs certainly have their utility and saying they "didn't really bring anything new" is more a credit to the "bring the player, not the class" mentality as much as a criticism of the overall design decisions for the class.

    I normally run with 2 DKs in our raids. One is DPS and consistently the top while the other is a tank/OT (depending on the fight) and has done superb in every fight through LK. It is hard for me to consider DKs a poor cousin based on the experience I've had, though certainly, I can understand if other people have developed different views. There is no denying that there are plenty of DKs who are less then great, but that can be said of any class. I believe DKs just have a high visibility due to the overall number of them and the focus they received through their initial implementation and subsequent modifications.

    -mklinic

    "Do something right, no one remembers.
    Do something wrong, no one forgets"
    -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence

  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,628

    they should just make engineer a dedicated class instead of a profession and give them all kinds of crazy ass explosives and mechs and cc devices.

    and a pandaren monk would be tight.

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529

    What area should this 'new' class fill?

    DKs were introduced because WoW had a huge tank shortage (esp in 5mans) at the time.

    As far as I know those shortages are largely done away wtih now and getting groups is fairly easy.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

    Originally posted by jpnz

    What area should this 'new' class fill?

    DKs were introduced because WoW had a huge tank shortage (esp in 5mans) at the time.

    As far as I know those shortages are largely done away wtih now and getting groups is fairly easy.

         And they still have a shortage in tanks.. It's always the last position filled in a 5 man run..  You can add 10 new tanking classes and it will still be a shortage.. Being a tank is not about the class, it's about the mentality of the players.. People just don't like playing the tanking role, same as healing roles.. The dominating mindset of the typical WoW player is  dps dps dps.. Very few want to tank, heal, pull, CC, or any other role you can stick in there..  This is proven by the overused ego focused epeen player using all their "dps" meter addons..  How often do you see tanks comparing "threat" generation numbers?  How often do you see healers bragging about their HPS?   Not that often.. I had 2 healers maxed.. an 80 priest and 80 pally.. When I cancelled WoW I have NO clue what my numbers where.. all I was concerned with was keeping people alive.. PERIOD..

         Currently with WoW's format of holy trinity and nothing else matters.. Adding a new class wouldn't really be enjoyable.. However if they want to backtrack to years ago, and change the game to promote roles such a crowd control, pulling, and giving a purpose to hybrids.. I'm all game for added classes..

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529

    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Originally posted by jpnz

    What area should this 'new' class fill?

    DKs were introduced because WoW had a huge tank shortage (esp in 5mans) at the time.

    As far as I know those shortages are largely done away wtih now and getting groups is fairly easy.

         And they still have a shortage in tanks.. It's always the last position filled in a 5 man run..  You can add 10 new tanking classes and it will still be a shortage.. Being a tank is not about the class, it's about the mentality of the players.. People just don't like playing the tanking role, same as healing roles.. The dominating mindset of the typical WoW player is  dps dps dps.. Very few want to tank, heal, pull, CC, or any other role you can stick in there..  This is proven by the overused ego focused epeen player using all their "dps" meter addons..  How often do you see tanks comparing "threat" generation numbers?  How often do you see healers bragging about their HPS?   Not that often.. I had 2 healers maxed.. an 80 priest and 80 pally.. When I cancelled WoW I have NO clue what my numbers where.. all I was concerned with was keeping people alive.. PERIOD..

          Currently  with WoW's format of holy trinity and nothing else matters.. Adding a new class wouldn't really be enjoyable.. However if they want to backtrack to years ago, and change the game to promote roles such a crowd control, pulling, and giving a purpose to hybrids.. I'm all game for added classes..

    The 'currently' part is actually false in Cata. Pulls, control and CC are back into play like it was back in Vanilla/TBC.

    I am puzzled at the 'purpose to hybrids' comment.

    WoW history shows 'the' main class will always be preferred by the player base so the hybrids had to be as good as that main class or they won't get a spot. If there is one thing that Wrath did well it is the balance of the classes, regardless of pure/hybrids. Skill > "what you selected to play 3 months ago" determined whether people took you and that is a good thing.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Originally posted by jpnz

    What area should this 'new' class fill?

    DKs were introduced because WoW had a huge tank shortage (esp in 5mans) at the time.

    As far as I know those shortages are largely done away wtih now and getting groups is fairly easy.

         (Edit for space) sorry

    The 'currently' part is actually false in Cata. Pulls, control and CC are back into play like it was back in Vanilla/TBC. First.. pulling has never been in the game.. even in vanilla.. I take it WoW was your first mmo? I'm guessing.. I'm old school mmo and to me and others like me, the role of pulling means your job was to go out and find the intended target to pull back to your group.. MOB's back in the day NEVER lost agro after you ran away 50 feet.. Even when mobs lost interest in the chase, they slowly walked back to their path location.. They don't run back "avoiding" any contact from others.. Example EQ1 puller would be a Monk.. A class that does dps, and is great in pulling mobs.. Their ability to keep mob in tow all the way back to the groups location, then feign death to lose agro, waiting for the tank to pick up agro and the group proceeds to kill the mob.. Sometimes CC was required or a bonus..

    I am puzzled at the 'purpose to hybrids' comment.  As for the hybrid comment.. YES. in WoW hybrids have NO use what so ever.. why?  Because of the strict hardcap limit on who groups and raids.. Again I'm old school MMO, where hybrids flourished and often wanted.. What WoW did was give all the hybrid abilities to primary roles .. hence homogenizing the classes.. I'll use EQ1 as an example.. Wizzard were primary dps, but had weak buffs and debuffs and CC.. Enchanters were primary CC, but weak dps.. Pet classes like Necros, shaman and mages shined as hybrids.. I played a druid and kicked butt.. Why?  EQ1 and games back in the day did not have hard capped limits to raiding.. As a druid I was not on the raid to full any "primary" role.. Clerics filled that role, Warriors filled the tanking role.. I filled the role of backup dps, but group raid heals on the side from AOE damage.. 

    WoW history shows 'the' main class will always be preferred by the player base so the hybrids had to be as good as that main class or they won't get a spot.  Exactly TRUE.. When you limit yourself to ONLY 10 or 25 seats on the bus, you have to only take the primaries.. no room for hybrids.. However, if you allow a bigger bus that can hold more, you have room for hybrids..  If there is one thing that Wrath did well it is the balance of the classes, regardless of pure/hybrids. Skill > "what you selected to play 3 months ago" determined whether people took you and that is a good thing. IF WoTLK did it so right, why did they REVAMP every single class talent tree? /shrug

  • QazzQazz Member Posts: 577

    Originally posted by Deviate

    I like everything blizz is doing with Cataclysm and all, but I think the game needs a couple new classes to spice things up. What do you guys think?

    I'm guessing the next xpac will add a class (or classes).  This seems to be a likely pattern:

    BC - New races

    WOTLK - New class

    Cata - New races

    Next Expac (Emerald Nightmare?) - ???

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529

    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Originally posted by jpnz

    What area should this 'new' class fill?

    DKs were introduced because WoW had a huge tank shortage (esp in 5mans) at the time.

    As far as I know those shortages are largely done away wtih now and getting groups is fairly easy.

         (Edit for space) sorry

    The 'currently' part is actually false in Cata. Pulls, control and CC are back into play like it was back in Vanilla/TBC. First.. pulling has never been in the game.. even in vanilla.. I take it WoW was your first mmo? I'm guessing.. I'm old school mmo and to me and others like me, the role of pulling means your job was to go out and find the intended target to pull back to your group.. MOB's back in the day NEVER lost agro after you ran away 50 feet.. Even when mobs lost interest in the chase, they slowly walked back to their path location.. They don't run back "avoiding" any contact from others.. Example EQ1 puller would be a Monk.. A class that does dps, and is great in pulling mobs.. Their ability to keep mob in tow all the way back to the groups location, then feign death to lose agro, waiting for the tank to pick up agro and the group proceeds to kill the mob.. Sometimes CC was required or a bonus..

    I am puzzled at the 'purpose to hybrids' comment.  As for the hybrid comment.. YES. in WoW hybrids have NO use what so ever.. why?  Because of the strict hardcap limit on who groups and raids.. Again I'm old school MMO, where hybrids flourished and often wanted.. What WoW did was give all the hybrid abilities to primary roles .. hence homogenizing the classes.. I'll use EQ1 as an example.. Wizzard were primary dps, but had weak buffs and debuffs and CC.. Enchanters were primary CC, but weak dps.. Pet classes like Necros, shaman and mages shined as hybrids.. I played a druid and kicked butt.. Why?  EQ1 and games back in the day did not have hard capped limits to raiding.. As a druid I was not on the raid to full any "primary" role.. Clerics filled that role, Warriors filled the tanking role.. I filled the role of backup dps, but group raid heals on the side from AOE damage.. 

    WoW history shows 'the' main class will always be preferred by the player base so the hybrids had to be as good as that main class or they won't get a spot.  Exactly TRUE.. When you limit yourself to ONLY 10 or 25 seats on the bus, you have to only take the primaries.. no room for hybrids.. However, if you allow a bigger bus that can hold more, you have room for hybrids..  If there is one thing that Wrath did well it is the balance of the classes, regardless of pure/hybrids. Skill > "what you selected to play 3 months ago" determined whether people took you and that is a good thing. IF WoTLK did it so right, why did they REVAMP every single class talent tree? /shrug

    Have you played WOW? In an instance, mobs will follow you no matter how far away you are as long as you are in the instance.

    I don't know if I should be amazed at your way of thinking on endgame. Maybe different games have different way of thinking?

    I dunno.

    Let me ask, Why should I bring your 'druid' that does less DPS when I can bring this 'wizard' instead?

    Or to group raid heal when I can bring this Cleric?

     

    And having no hard capped limits to raiding means you can't balance the encounter.

    Game Designer1: 'Hey, how many people is going to fighting this boss'?

    Game Designer2: 'Infinite'.

    GD1: 'So how much HP should it have?'

    GD2: 'I dunno. What's 10 times infinite?'

    You want something like FF11 where guilds spent 2 days straight and still not down a raid boss?

     

    Last I checked, they made it easier to balance when they revamped it.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Originally posted by jpnz

    What area should this 'new' class fill?

    DKs were introduced because WoW had a huge tank shortage (esp in 5mans) at the time.

    As far as I know those shortages are largely done away wtih now and getting groups is fairly easy.

         (Edit for space) sorry

    The 'currently' part is actually false in Cata. Pulls, control and CC are back into play like it was back in Vanilla/TBC. First.. pulling has never been in the game.. even in vanilla.. I take it WoW was your first mmo? I'm guessing.. I'm old school mmo and to me and others like me, the role of pulling means your job was to go out and find the intended target to pull back to your group.. MOB's back in the day NEVER lost agro after you ran away 50 feet.. Even when mobs lost interest in the chase, they slowly walked back to their path location.. They don't run back "avoiding" any contact from others.. Example EQ1 puller would be a Monk.. A class that does dps, and is great in pulling mobs.. Their ability to keep mob in tow all the way back to the groups location, then feign death to lose agro, waiting for the tank to pick up agro and the group proceeds to kill the mob.. Sometimes CC was required or a bonus..

    I am puzzled at the 'purpose to hybrids' comment.  As for the hybrid comment.. YES. in WoW hybrids have NO use what so ever.. why?  Because of the strict hardcap limit on who groups and raids.. Again I'm old school MMO, where hybrids flourished and often wanted.. What WoW did was give all the hybrid abilities to primary roles .. hence homogenizing the classes.. I'll use EQ1 as an example.. Wizzard were primary dps, but had weak buffs and debuffs and CC.. Enchanters were primary CC, but weak dps.. Pet classes like Necros, shaman and mages shined as hybrids.. I played a druid and kicked butt.. Why?  EQ1 and games back in the day did not have hard capped limits to raiding.. As a druid I was not on the raid to full any "primary" role.. Clerics filled that role, Warriors filled the tanking role.. I filled the role of backup dps, but group raid heals on the side from AOE damage.. 

    WoW history shows 'the' main class will always be preferred by the player base so the hybrids had to be as good as that main class or they won't get a spot.  Exactly TRUE.. When you limit yourself to ONLY 10 or 25 seats on the bus, you have to only take the primaries.. no room for hybrids.. However, if you allow a bigger bus that can hold more, you have room for hybrids..  If there is one thing that Wrath did well it is the balance of the classes, regardless of pure/hybrids. Skill > "what you selected to play 3 months ago" determined whether people took you and that is a good thing. IF WoTLK did it so right, why did they REVAMP every single class talent tree? /shrug

    Have you played WOW? In an instance, mobs will follow you no matter how far away you are as long as you are in the instance.  As I addressed.. I take you never played a game other then WoW?  Your idea of pulling is that of a new gen, which is different then old school pulling..  What happens if a hunter pulled a mob in an instance , then FD'd? 

    I don't know if I should be amazed at your way of thinking on endgame. Maybe different games have different way of thinking?

    I dunno.

    Let me ask, Why should I bring your 'druid' that does less DPS when I can bring this 'wizard' instead?

    Or to group raid heal when I can bring this Cleric? OK this proves to me you never played EQ1 or similar old school games..  Druids and hygrids brought more to a fight that even clerics and wizzies couldn't do..  However even EQ1 changed over time because of lazy whiners that couldn't have everything wrapped up into 1 toon..  Needed a port?  talk to a druid or a wizzy.. Need run speed?  talk to a shaman or druid.. Back in thet day EQ1 didnt' promote this "instant heath and man" after a fight by eating a mage croisant.. LOL  So if you wanted more challenge to a fight and raid you better have good health and mana regen.. WELCOME hybrids, because NONE of your primary dps, tank or heal classes had that ability..  Group/Raid make up was much more conplex in the old school days..  However a lot of lazy players couldn't handle it..

     

    And having no hard capped limits to raiding means you can't balance the encounter. OH.. it was balance.. Infact I remember many of encounters that it was OVER a year before end game mobs were taken down, not this easy peasy LK down within a month.. LOL  Raids in EQ1 for example stressed you bring 30+ to the fight.. some even demanded 50+   Why do you think vanilla WoW's original big boss raids were 40 mans..  Which got nerfed because the same lazy whiners on EQ1 moved to WoW and Blizzard caved..

    Game Designer1: 'Hey, how many people is going to fighting this boss'?

    Game Designer2: 'Infinite'. actually.. I think there was a true hardcap.. but it was around 50 or 60?

    GD1: 'So how much HP should it have?' a shitload.. so you better bring as many as you can.. 30+

    GD2: 'I dunno. What's 10 times infinite?'

    You want something like FF11 where guilds spent 2 days straight and still not down a raid boss? Each trash mob in a raid took an average of a few minutes or longer.. boss much more.. but not crazy times..

     

    Last I checked, they made it easier to balance when they revamped it. more like dumbed everything down.. HELL.. even crafted food is as dumbed down as you can get..  EAT  FISH  FEAST.. lmaoooo  Can we make stat food any simplier?

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by jpnz

    You sound as if you want to spend a long time outside of the game with the 'meta' stuff. Organsing raids, recruiting that hybrid so you have that 'regen', look at a spreadsheet to figure out if this really is an upgrade for you etc.

     

    I'm seriously scratching my head at this 'group complexity' though. It isn't complex at all, it is just tedious.

    There is nothing complex in saying 'you need Z amount of X class and A amount of B class etc'.

     

    Me? I am glad I don't play your game. If I want to play a game, I want to play a game. Like controlling my char and not look at a spreadsheet or hours trying to organise a 50+ raid. But then again, I did play WoW so I guess i'm one of those 'lazy players' by your definition.

    Good thing us 'lazy players' outnumber you so more games will cater to us. :P

    Exactly. 

    Tedious meta game mechanics don't make actual gameplay more difficult or challenging.  The actual fighting did not get any harder, because it took 2 hours to prepare enough people of the right classes to start.  It is just boring busy work the most people are very capable of doing, but just don't find that it is enjoyable gameplay.

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 4,050

    Originally posted by Rydeson
    As for the hybrid comment.. YES. in WoW hybrids have NO use what so ever..
    What WoW are you playing?!


    There are only 4 "pure" classes in WoW: Hunters, Rogues, Mages and Warlocks. All other classes are hybrids that fulfill 2 or more roles.


    Its quite clear you never played WoW and you have no idea what you are talking about.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     



    Originally posted by Rydeson

    As for the hybrid comment.. YES. in WoW hybrids have NO use what so ever..



    What WoW are you playing?!



    There are only 4 "pure" classes in WoW: Hunters, Rogues, Mages and Warlocks. All other classes are hybrids that fulfill 2 or more roles.



    Its quite clear you never played WoW and you have no idea what you are talking about.

    WOWWWWWWWWWWW .. lol There are only 4 "pure" classes in WoW.. Hunters, rogues, mages and warlocks.. ?????????? I'm even afraid to respond to this.. lmaoooo   I think you have no clue what hybrid classes are..  I think what you are trying to say all classes outside of the ones you just named have " MULTI" roles.. which is NOT to be confused with hybrid classes..

    For us original old timers.. a PURE class is a Warrior, Cleric/Priest as an example.. Traditionally Paladins were considered a hybrid class because they were a mix of warrior and cleric..  They couldn't tank as well as the pure class tank, and couldn't heal as well as the pure class Cleric, but could off tank and off heal..  WoW has homogenized that to a point they redefined hybrid to meaning "multi-role" classes..  [mod edit]

  • DLangleyDLangley Member Posts: 1,407

    There is entirely too much baiting going on in this thread. Please read the RoC before posting. Locked.

This discussion has been closed.