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General: Why Do MMOs Die?

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  • mxmissilemxmissile Member UncommonPosts: 275

    Originally posted by Einherjar_LC



    Originally posted by Nephaerius


    Originally posted by Elidien

    Just curious, what is the second picture from?


     

     AC2

    Nah, that can't be AC2, it looks like the chat is working.....


     

    best comment eva

  • VolcaineVolcaine Member Posts: 1

    I'm waiting for the day that a to be cancelled MMO gets an open source server/mod package released so the customers who remain and are still dedicated to the title can generate their own worlds/quests.  Many times very talented developers/admins/modders can be discovered and tapped by the company for future projects or a rewrite.  As was stated, a MMO that gets canceled prevents anyone out there from taking a nostalgic trip down memory MMO lane.  There is a robust and dedicated Mod community out there who would love to get their hands on AC2 or another in the long lines of forgotten (virtual)friends.

  • RomseRomse Member Posts: 198

    Originally posted by Kyleran



    Others in this thread will do a great job explaining why MMO's die (not rocket science you know), all I wanted to weigh in with is that bad MMO's deserve to die, only way we'll every get the message through to the folks that build them on what we really think of their games.


     

    Pretty much this... we need to cull the crap.

    I'd also like to underline that the current trend to license IPs to make MMOs sort of shows where the industry is at... they are trying to apply the same crappy formula of getting high sales based on a name...

    This might work when you make a single player action / adventure / rpg... but MMOs need long term content... equilibrium... it's a microsphere and you just cannot expect that the simple act of letting people access the same gamespace... doing "action / adventure / rpg" stuff...  makes you game a viable MMO. The game needs to be about how players interract.

    Games like LotRO, DDO, Matrix Online, Conan, Warhammer, are not necessarilly doomed from the get go... but it's quite indicative of what the creators are thinking. Warhammer was almost a great game... the big name attracted EA to them... they released a game that was half-done. Two years later it's finally an awesome game but the player-base has already moved on. Conan is similar... but too little too late.

    Look at Warhammer 40K... Dark Millenium Online. Granted we know very little but, they are just taking the same old formula of an evil faction vs a good faction... something that does not even fit the IP... and slapping on the 40k coat of paint on it... re-using their Darksiders engin.

    Cryptic tried that... they actually pretty much admitted openly that they had this engine and they were just gonna pop out titles by slapping on IPs on top of it.

    What to make of the MMO / TV show Syfy is working on? I think they are once again focusing on an IP rather than focusing on a working MMO.

    Now...

    Eve, Darkfall or Rifts IMO are more on the right track. They have a concept for a world and how things work... and they craft a world around that... same goes for 38 Studios and their MMO project...

    SWTOR on the other hand... we'll have to see. They already showed they can take an IP and make a great "action / adventure / rpg" around it... or even make up an IP... now they want to make an MMO out of this... the question will be can they really create a microcosm or is this just gonna be some sort of game space sharing server... Since it's Bioware, I have to give them the benifit of the doubt... but otherwise all the signs would point to a failure.

  • RamblebrainRamblebrain Member Posts: 52

    I may be wrong but:

    Natural Selection: Reproduction, the choice of who to mate with

    Survival of the Fitest: .. well, that's probably what you ment

  • bisurgebisurge Member UncommonPosts: 168

    Nexon games are just bad. Centered around the cash shop, these games disturbingly reward payers with 2x or 3x development rate and the like.

    LoTRO and DDO cannot be completed Free-to-Play unless you put in hundreds of hours every half a dozen levels to unlock the next quest pack. LoTRO does show some signs of improving though, but by this time the gameplay is already stale.

    Guild Wars makes enough money by selling the game and expansions. The item-shop that's here right now is just cosmetic and is just to glean players of money before Guild Wars 2 is released.

  • UnSubUnSub Member Posts: 252

    I believe that Myst Online and Ryzom are open source MMOs.

    Why do MMOs die? Well, in the case of Hellgate: London, APB and Tabula Rasa, they spent too much on development. APB and Hellgate London had the added bonus of getting their business models completely wrong as well (confusing for players and then giving away too much for free).

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Member UncommonPosts: 4,641

    Originally posted by BioNut



    MMOs die because their consumer demand wanes to a point where it is no longer profitable for a company to keep the servers open. Remember that companies are not charities and they could give a rats ass if you enjoy, love, cherish or despise their game. All they want is $$$ so they can feed their families and live the lives they want to live.

     

    That you ask this question blows my mind.


     

     

    It blows MY mind that you say they don't care if you "enjoy, love, cherish, or despise their game. All they want is money..." in the SAME paragraph.

     

    People who enjoy, love, and/or cherish something....have no problem PAYING for it. So I would say they care VERY MUCH if you have good feelings about their game. Most of the time....I think the problem is not that they don't CARE, it's that they don't know how to make people feel those things about their games.  Some developers have better insight into the psyche of the gamer than others, I'm afraid. And when I say "gamer" I mean whatever their target market of gamers IS, which varies from game to game.

     

    I don't think you will ever in all your life hear a developer or game publisher SAY, "We don't care if anyone enjoys or loves our game." Nope. That's not gonna happen.

     

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • obeloviper95obeloviper95 Member Posts: 84

    Originally posted by Arxon

     

    First off..  I'm not a fan of Free 2 Play games.  It just seems like there is less man-power behind them.  GM responses take forever, innovation seems to go out the window, and updates are virtually non-existent.  It feels like the game is dying and then they are offering things for cash purchase.  Why would I spend cash on a game that feels like it's dying?

    MMOs die.  Why?  Because they jump on the Bandwagon.  When just ONE of them becomes successful with an idea then they all make attempts to implement that idea into their MMO.  UO (Ultima Online) was the best MMO that I have ever played.  It captured my attention for years.  What happened to it?  EverQuest came out with a much simpler game to play that offered gameplay in 3D, with less pvp, and a leveling system.  Here, I would like to make 2 points; 1:  Anything new is going to draw attention; 2:  The easier a game is to play the more people are going to enjoy playing it.  Look at WoW (World of Warcraft) for example.  There has never been an easier MMO to play.  That is what draws people to it.  Once EQ had released, and had become relatively successful, UO had felt the need to imitate EQ's success.  In doing so they ultimately ruined their own masterpiece by making things easier, releasing shitty 3D options (if you're going to do something,do it right!), and end the end of my time anyway; implementing resistances and super powered weaponry thereby removing skill out of the equation and turning the game into an item-based game.  

    Unfortunately, there is the select few of us that enjoy competition.  We enjoy difficulty and challenge.  We don't want things handed to us and we thrive on actual skill and reflex.  This is where the problems arise.  We find it difficult to believe that there are not more out there like us and the MMO market continues to feed the majority what they thrive on.  Thus making each MMO feel very similar if not exactly the same as the last.  Sounds kind of boring, doesn't it??



     

     i cant disagree more about the f2p. Lotro was doing well before it went to f2p now there is even more updates and content planed or at least told to the community then before. who knows if the f2p concept will stick around but it definitly is not hurting.

  • Death1942Death1942 Member UncommonPosts: 2,587

    Originally posted by achmed20

    what bugs me most is that those games just to end up on a backup drive in some1 safe and damned to never been seen aggain.

    why cant they just open Source them? I Allways liked Tabula rasa, even if it had its flaws. im quite sure the OpenSource community would had made something great out of it.

    It would be awesome if they could do this but unfortunately there is company code in the game and they simply can't afford to give away their code (a bit of it moves from project to project).

    MMO wish list:

    -Changeable worlds
    -Solid non level based game
    -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads

  • hogscraperhogscraper Member Posts: 322

    Profits, actual or projected. The problem in understanding that is understanding whatever random equation the creators came up with. 

  • gordiflugordiflu Member UncommonPosts: 757

    Originally posted by obeloviper95



    Originally posted by Arxon

     

    First off..  I'm not a fan of Free 2 Play games.  It just seems like there is less man-power behind them.  GM responses take forever, innovation seems to go out the window, and updates are virtually non-existent.  It feels like the game is dying and then they are offering things for cash purchase.  Why would I spend cash on a game that feels like it's dying?

    MMOs die.  Why?  Because they jump on the Bandwagon.  When just ONE of them becomes successful with an idea then they all make attempts to implement that idea into their MMO.  UO (Ultima Online) was the best MMO that I have ever played.  It captured my attention for years.  What happened to it?  EverQuest came out with a much simpler game to play that offered gameplay in 3D, with less pvp, and a leveling system.  Here, I would like to make 2 points; 1:  Anything new is going to draw attention; 2:  The easier a game is to play the more people are going to enjoy playing it.  Look at WoW (World of Warcraft) for example.  There has never been an easier MMO to play.  That is what draws people to it.  Once EQ had released, and had become relatively successful, UO had felt the need to imitate EQ's success.  In doing so they ultimately ruined their own masterpiece by making things easier, releasing shitty 3D options (if you're going to do something,do it right!), and end the end of my time anyway; implementing resistances and super powered weaponry thereby removing skill out of the equation and turning the game into an item-based game.  

    Unfortunately, there is the select few of us that enjoy competition.  We enjoy difficulty and challenge.  We don't want things handed to us and we thrive on actual skill and reflex.  This is where the problems arise.  We find it difficult to believe that there are not more out there like us and the MMO market continues to feed the majority what they thrive on.  Thus making each MMO feel very similar if not exactly the same as the last.  Sounds kind of boring, doesn't it??



     

     i cant disagree more about the f2p. Lotro was doing well before it went to f2p now there is even more updates and content planed or at least told to the community then before. who knows if the f2p concept will stick around but it definitly is not hurting.


     

    Lotro's population was going down, all guilds recruiting like maniacs becouse, bar the few top guilds, most guilds were struggling to get enough ppl to run 12-man raids, and ALL the end-game was reduced to 1 instance (doable in 20 minutes) and 1 raid (with only 3 bosses), and the latest expansion was completed by tons of players in the very first weekend, with the tiniest expension map that many of us have ever seen.

    We ll see if that changes with the new F2P thing. At least now they have a nice influx of new (free) players. If they Turbine goes back to the standards they set in SoA the game has a bright future now. If they keep delivering as poorly as they did with SoM, all these new players wont last long and wont spend much money.

  • nirvanetnirvanet Member UncommonPosts: 95

    Useless article and this is not true at all to me =)

     

    It's Just an opinion.

  • RequiamerRequiamer Member Posts: 2,034

    I have yet to see a mmo die from anything, Uo is still around and it is the first mmo, so?

     

    HO, you mean tabula rasa, it didn't die, it was shut down because of the dog and cat relationship between R.G and NCsoft.

    And ye i'm one of those that are on the side of NC in this affair.

    Even thought i hate NC as a mmo company, i think they stink really, especially because they somehow braught "The Grind" in mmos. And i kind of like R.G, he kind of look very human to me with a lot of interesting visions and a lot of failed intensions.

    Yet i blame R.G in this affair. First L2 was a fiasco in western country, and his job was to take care of that. He make Uo, and wasn't even able to point out to NC that the fiasco came from the grind, item based system, and security (bots) problem, yet as the main Uo designer he was one of most aware of this kind of stuff in all th mmo world, and i'm sure Nc would have gave him all the power needed to change this in the western version of the game, but he fucking did nothing at all, he was just turning his fingers all the time, big fucking fail all over the place here. And even if NC didn't want to give him any power to do anything, he should have tald them, "if you want me to be your western puppet, go tu fuck off, im' not here to be your punching ball, or you do something to fix your crap, or i leave".

    Second Tabula rasa is a bad game from its core, a mmofps with no pvp LOL. It would be the same as a mmofps without character advancement, that kind of non sense, and Nc did pointed this to R.G, but he was just so stubborn he refused to implement any pvp in Tabula rasa. How could this kind of game interest anyone? It's like trying to sell salty candies to kids, fail.

  • user750user750 Member Posts: 12

    I hope NCsoft will catch a stomach virus and sh*t their guts out for closing TR.

  • BattlestormBattlestorm Member UncommonPosts: 136

    Hrm, I think the answer to questions like this always seem so obvious, but I don't think the failure of an MMO can simply be attributed to a single cause or a series of causes that are always the same case time-and-time again. That being said, of all of the most reasonable answers, the most logical is simply due to standard business viability. If a game breaks-even or makes money, it can be retained until it proves otherwise. When a game loses money and the company is able to sustain it until things can be re-worked, re-vamped and/or re-released, great. If a company decides that they are ashamed, want to cut their losses, can't reasonably come up with a plan for success or don't have the financial backing to take the risk . . . well, sometimes you just have to know when to fold 'em.

    Not every company is going to decide these sorts of things lightly (nor properly, not every time). What we have to realize is that we, as a people, DO indeed control the success or failure of these games. Businesses make decisions based on what we are doing as a whole, not what they want us to do. If it were as simple as telling us what to play I don't think there would be such a things as failure in an MMO. We are being watched, statistically probed and otherwise charted, categorized, plotted, graphed and calculated in so many facets that we don't realize own subscription's power.

    So, just as in life, you have to be (or support, in this case) the change you want to see. Our patterns of subscription will reflect the games we see coming down the line. If you want hard-core gaming, don't just play WoW because you can't find anything else. If you want more WoW, just play it. It's as simple as making the right sacrifices in life to support the things you want to see coming down the line in the future. Taking up the path of least resistance and sub'ing a game you are just "getting by on" will skew the results against you in the long run.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,939

    Originally posted by Battlestorm

    Hrm, I think the answer to questions like this always seem so obvious, but I don't think the failure of an MMO can simply be attributed to a single cause or a series of causes that are always the same case time-and-time again. That being said, of all of the most reasonable answers, the most logical is simply due to standard business viability. If a game breaks-even or makes money, it can be retained until it proves otherwise. When a game loses money and the company is able to sustain it until things can be re-worked, re-vamped and/or re-released, great. If a company decides that they are ashamed, want to cut their losses, can't reasonably come up with a plan for success or don't have the financial backing to take the risk . . . well, sometimes you just have to know when to fold 'em.

    Not every company is going to decide these sorts of things lightly (nor properly, not every time). What we have to realize is that we, as a people, DO indeed control the success or failure of these games. Businesses make decisions based on what we are doing as a whole, not what they want us to do. If it were as simple as telling us what to play I don't think there would be such a things as failure in an MMO. We are being watched, statistically probed and otherwise charted, categorized, plotted, graphed and calculated in so many facets that we don't realize own subscription's power.

    So, just as in life, you have to be (or support, in this case) the change you want to see. Our patterns of subscription will reflect the games we see coming down the line. If you want hard-core gaming, don't just play WoW because you can't find anything else. If you want more WoW, just play it. It's as simple as making the right sacrifices in life to support the things you want to see coming down the line in the future. Taking up the path of least resistance and sub'ing a game you are just "getting by on" will skew the results against you in the long run.

    This is pretty much spot  on.

    I realize that people don't want to support incomplete and buggy games. And in a perfect world they shouldn't have to.

    However, if no one supports them and it looks like all the money is going to the "wow" type games then that's what producers are going to put their money towards.

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  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,404

    These days FTP is an option if AC 2 were failing now Turbine would do that like what they did to DDO and LotRO. Tabula Rasa was shut down out of spite I think to be honest.

    Garrus Signature
  • wizyear2099wizyear2099 Member UncommonPosts: 310

    Depends on how big an how much money the company has to invest into a game in my opinion.

  • GikkuGikku Member Posts: 208

    Originally posted by sloeber

    mmo's die because kids get bored too fast these days....thats why!

    You may be correct for the most part, but the adults get tired after investing time and the game looses its appeal for the many reasons: lag, depletting content, boredom, poor expansions, poor changes, the list goes on. It is the adults that pay for it even if it is a child playing. True kids get bored easy and move on but it is the adults that can do the harm. I think most games depend more on the mature lasting gamer  than the be here gone tomorrow type.

    Gikku

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,607

    Originally posted by wizyear2099

    Depends on how big an how much money the company has to invest into a game in my opinion.

    Pretty much.  The front end expense is, frankly... staggering.  And with more and more games failing, it's harder and harder to find investors that don't demand ridiculous returns that can cripple even a moderately successful MMO.

  • LyramLyram Member Posts: 8

    Shallow article is shallow.  MMOs die because there isn't enough money coming in to even keep one server going.  Game companies are businesses.  Many of them are part of public corporations.  Therefore their executives have to act in the best interest of the owners, shareholders.  Even running one server and fixing critical bugs can cost more than a few thousand subscriptions.  And if there's no potential for growth, a company shouldn't bother keeping that Meridian 59, or Matrix Online going.

  • daffasdaffas Member Posts: 56

    I too would love to see more games go open source.  Even some older games that no one plays anymore.

  • daffasdaffas Member Posts: 56

    Originally posted by achmed20



    what bugs me most is that those games just to end up on a backup drive in some1 safe and damned to never been seen aggain.

    why cant they just open Source them? I Allways liked Tabula rasa, even if it had its flaws. im quite sure the OpenSource community would had made something great out of it.


    Forgot to quote for my last post.

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292

    Originally posted by DevilXaphan



    Got two words on why Tablua Rasa died, "Richard Garriott".

    I believe NCSoft shut it down was because they didn't want to pay him anymore after his fiasco.

    Now as to why other mmo's die is basically very bad lag, constant bugs, and terrible management.

    As for Hellgate: Revival, well last i heard they were having a bit of trouble with publishing for the NA/EU region.

    This is the last news report on Hellgate.


     

    Actually the reason for shutting down Tabula Rasa was totally different... but the bottom line was money.

     

    Tabula Rasa was shut down to re-allocate resources to Aion. It was cheaper to shut down Tabular Rasa, and move the resources than to hire more. The belief was that Aion was a huge cash cow, and that the faster it could be pushed out, the faster they would make all of that money. TR was a game that was in trouble, and had staff that could be better used elsewhere.

  • HyprogloHyproglo Member Posts: 5

    I agree with the money answer 100%.

    They don't make enough money and it will cost too much to fix it= wash hands and fart out another MMO.

    AC2 was the best damn MMO out there and if ony Turbine would have had the marketing they had now days the game would have servived. They had worked out a lot of major bugs after they took the full rights to the game.

    And just to prove the money grasp further, just look at today's MMOs with there so called F2P system. The only reason they al switch to this is because it makes them tons of cash. People are funny, they won't pay for a subscription but they spend hundreds of dollars on the cash shops.

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