I must be too old school of a gamer because this drives me crazy. All I hear it people saying that they endlessly grinder for gear and it was all for nothing. Jesus Kerist. Isn't the point of an mmo to play online with friends and have a good time? Did you hate getting the gear? If so, why did you do it? I have been playing mmo's for a looooong time. So long I had to add all of those Extra o's to the word long. Look at all those o's!
Point is, I have never felt the need to have the best everything. I played the way I wantred, pvped, won some and lost some. But I always had fun... if not, why would I have been playing? This need to have all epic'ed out gear is what's ruining these games. Did you honestly expect to have the best shit forever? If so, you would still be wearing the epics from the original game. They need to make better stuff old what's the point?
Just wear the new greens and try to enjoy getting the epics again. Because if it's not fun, why are you playing?
I don't work to get gear though. I play the parts that I enjoy and whatever gear falls into my lap is a side effect.
I agree with Daff. I do not play WOW for gear, gear is gotten when gear is gotten. I could care less honestly. I play WOW because I enjoy the game and like the story and the little things here and there.
There is so much more to WOW than gear and I would suggest o anyone that you play the game for those reasons and not gear or you will feel like its a treadmill.
mm ok tell me what you do when you have read and done the quest, you have reach max lvl and done crafting? You grind for gears in instance or grind rep for gears and what else?
I play the parts that I enjoy and could not care less what gear drops. To me there is no need to look at a loot list for dungeon A or Boss B and then use that to determine if that part of the game still holds value for me or not. If I enjoy a dungeon or raid, I will repeat them as long as I find them enjoyable. When I want to murder fellow players I head for battlegrouds.
I do not let rewards determine what I will have enjoyment doing or when my game experience should end. The game is already designed to give enough rewards just for playing what you will enjoy that there is no need to stress over what item might or might not drop.
It's not fun having all your progress reset every two years. The game is all about getting gear... Not keeping it. Blizzard has made this clear with every expansion that resets progress and makes content obsolete. Why bother attaining anything if it ultimately becomes worthless? I'm sorry but the actual content that one needs to play through for this gear isn't good enough to stand on it's own. So getting to see the content or knowing you cleared it means nothing once the rewards from that experience mean nothing.
To me, this is the flip side of the same coin with people who think that gear is everything and you'd better get your gear quick or you're not worthy of a spot in our group. This gear oriented mentality drives me nuts. To me, the experiences mean something because of the accomplishment and because of the people you accomplish with. Gear? What the heck is that? The first time I led a group against Frostfire in CoH meant something. The first time I had a group of friends leveling through content together in CoH and finding it easier and easier as we got to know each other's play style meant something. My guild-mates taking me through my first heroic when I finally hit level 80 in WoW meant something. Completing Blackrock Depths with my nephews. The first time I was healing on a successful 25 man. Progressing through ICC with my guild. These meant something. When half the best raiders in a guild that I really liked bailed on us to go with a better geared guild and down the Lich King quicker - that meant something, too. It meant I never got the experience of downing the Lich King. It meant I lost interest in guilds and gear scores. I've done a lot of raiding and have a lot of epic equipment and I honestly couldn't tell you where I got most of the pieces. It's the experience that means something to me, not the gear. I know it's just different mindsets and there isn't necessarily a right or wrong way to look at it, but people like you really have a knack for wrecking games for people like me.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
It's not fun having all your progress reset every two years. The game is all about getting gear... Not keeping it. Blizzard has made this clear with every expansion that resets progress and makes content obsolete. Why bother attaining anything if it ultimately becomes worthless? I'm sorry but the actual content that one needs to play through for this gear isn't good enough to stand on it's own. So getting to see the content or knowing you cleared it means nothing once the rewards from that experience mean nothing.
To me, this is the flip side of the same coin with people who think that gear is everything and you'd better get your gear quick or you're not worthy of a spot in our group. This gear oriented mentality drives me nuts. To me, the experiences mean something because of the accomplishment and because of the people you accomplish with. Gear? What the heck is that? The first time I led a group against Frostfire in CoH meant something. The first time I had a group of friends leveling through content together in CoH and finding it easier and easier as we got to know each other's play style meant something. My guild-mates taking me through my first heroic when I finally hit level 80 in WoW meant something. Completing Blackrock Depths with my nephews. The first time I was healing on a successful 25 man. Progressing through ICC with my guild. These meant something. When half the best raiders in a guild that I really liked bailed on us to go with a better geared guild and down the Lich King quicker - that meant something, too. It meant I never got the experience of downing the Lich King. It meant I lost interest in guilds and gear scores. I've done a lot of raiding and have a lot of epic equipment and I honestly couldn't tell you where I got most of the pieces. It's the experience that means something to me, not the gear. I know it's just different mindsets and there isn't necessarily a right or wrong way to look at it, but people like you really have a knack for wrecking games for people like me.
^^ This
WOW is a de-socializing game. It has become a game of e-peen and l33t speak. It is about superficial competition and drives unnecessary wedges between people. The LFG feature now allows asshats and morons to spread their disease across many groups and venues rather than allowing their actions to cause them to become pariahs.
It's not fun having all your progress reset every two years. The game is all about getting gear... Not keeping it. Blizzard has made this clear with every expansion that resets progress and makes content obsolete. Why bother attaining anything if it ultimately becomes worthless? I'm sorry but the actual content that one needs to play through for this gear isn't good enough to stand on it's own. So getting to see the content or knowing you cleared it means nothing once the rewards from that experience mean nothing.
Playing along with this same logic, why ever bother getting level 2 when it will be made obsolete when you gain level 3? Why bother running dungeons if you are just going to raid once you have complete those? Why bother leveling a tradeskill when 95% of it you will outgrow? Why ever learn firebolt when you will get fireball in 3 more levels?
Games like this are built on the foundation of players constantly updating their characters and experiences. Some will selectively see this and trivializing past efforts and other will see it as just more of what they have been doing for 80 levels already.
Your completely right and this is why I don't play Wow, progression and achievements are completely meaningless and to top it off the content is shit. Atleast in a game like eve my skills mean something, my achievements are long term. When I got into a HAC meant somethng and it was always useful. I can't say the same for my thunderfury or anything else I achieved in wow from reputations to old gear sets to honor rankings... Their simply is no long term achievement in wow and this makes the entire experience soulless and for me it becomes a complete waste of time. I'm play through Lotro right now and Atleast the game masks the scam, through use of the cosmetics tab I can always wear old gear, with crating guilds my craft has an illusion of meaning, with the epic book quests and dungeon scaling content feels meaningful and doesn't feel like it's going obsolete. Blizzard simply comes off like they don't give a shit.
Don't blame the game because of your own gear mentality. There is lot more to game then just gear grind. its the experince of leveling with your friends that counts. If players chose to rush to end game and grind for gear like zombies, its their choice but do not blame the game. You chose how to play and it is your responsibility.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
1) A lot of MMORPG players feel that leveling is the pre-game, and the max level starts the actual game that you spend most of your time playing. Blizzard caters to this.
2) Blizzard wants people to actually experience the content that they spent the last year or two working on. Part of the content is trying on new gear with new stats to see how it works on your character. It's not just the relative power levels they change, it's the balance of how the stats work as well. They want you to play with this.
3) Players get noticably more powerful as they level. This means all lower level content must be weaker than all higher level content.
4) You're going to replace your gear eventually anyway. You may as well replace it right away instead of 5 levels later.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I understand what the OP is talking about. Its a real kick in the balls to raid for months on end (granted enjoying it), but to have a xpac or even just an update (icc) come out and and make all your hard work go down the drain. Green at level 68 in wotlk were better then some blues from 70 in BC. I know I felt like crap when I raided ulduar 5 days a week to have ICC come out after I took a month off break to come back with all the emblem changes and there were people who just started the game not long before that, that had better gear then me. Its fine that they want to bring out knew stuff, but they need to still keep in mind that people have been playing the game for years and have worked hard at achiving something and not just think about money all the time and how they can please the console gamer who wants all purples the day he turns max level. IMO when you reach top level you should have to earn the right to go into heroics or raid. Anyone who tells me that they needed to work hard to get into heroics in wotlk is full of crap. Every one of my 80's started running heroics the same day and it was easy. BC atleast did a bit better and made you get keyed.
I can imagine the fuss there would be (not least among raiders) if a new expansion came out with higher content but without better gear.
The OP's feeling that he wasted his time working hard for the previous best gear is difficult to follow. He presumably enjoyed doing it, otherwise why would he have been playing the game, and that level of gear served its purpose in (a) driving him on and (b) giving him the best means of progressing. The fact that he now starts over in pursuit of even better gear for even higher levels is simply the way in which these games are structured, and presents him with a challenge which is presumably what most people seek from a level-raising expansion?
I understand what the OP is talking about. Its a real kick in the balls to raid for months on end (granted enjoying it), but to have a xpac or even just an update (icc) come out and and make all your hard work go down the drain. Green at level 68 in wotlk were better then some blues from 70 in BC. I know I felt like crap when I raided ulduar 5 days a week to have ICC come out after I took a month off break to come back with all the emblem changes and there were people who just started the game not long before that, that had better gear then me. Its fine that they want to bring out knew stuff, but they need to still keep in mind that people have been playing the game for years and have worked hard at achiving something and not just think about money all the time and how they can please the console gamer who wants all purples the day he turns max level. IMO when you reach top level you should have to earn the right to go into heroics or raid. Anyone who tells me that they needed to work hard to get into heroics in wotlk is full of crap. Every one of my 80's started running heroics the same day and it was easy. BC atleast did a bit better and made you get keyed.
There are essentially two groups of players here:
-those who play for the gear and base their game achievements on that
-those who play the game for the sake of playing the game and base their achievements on what they accomplished personally and/or as part of a team
I raided in vanilla WoW and went through a lot 'blood, sweat and tears' to get a nice set of purple epics. When BC came out I discarded those epics for the new greens without a second thought since the gear really meant nothing to me. The important stuff from vanilla WoW were the memories of the friendships I had and the great teamwork my guild developed over the months of raiding. In order for the expansion to take that away, someone would have to fill the gamebox with rocks and hit me over the head with it to give me amnesia.
Frankly, people who complain that an expansion has destroyed their achievements because their purple gear has become obsolete, seem to me like a bunch of weird losers. They are like those characters in holiday movies who have 'forgotten the true meaning of Christmas'.
I can imagine the fuss there would be (not least among raiders) if a new expansion came out with higher content but without better gear.
The OP's feeling that he wasted his time working hard for the previous best gear is difficult to follow. He presumably enjoyed doing it, otherwise why would he have been playing the game, and that level of gear served its purpose in (a) driving him on and (b) giving him the best means of progressing. The fact that he now starts over in pursuit of even better gear for even higher levels is simply the way in which these games are structured, and presents him with a challenge which is presumably what most people seek from a level-raising expansion?
Agree 100%. The OP seems to be forgetting why he was playing to begin with. The potential alternatives would have probably kept him from playing in the first place.
I understand what your saying, but I think what the OP is saying is that a level 68 green for instance should not be better then a level 70 blue. I also think that something you worked hard for should not be worth less then other gear that someone who started the game can get very easy.
The other side of your statement is that fact that other the raids which even that is starting to get stupid everything else is based on grouping with people that you have never seen before and will never see int he future. It used to be that you could make friends with people on your server and build on that relationship and run instances together. Now its all about joining a queue to group with people that either are so stupid that they dont know there class or they just dont talk. Not that it matters because you will most likely never see them again. I understand that most people will say, Ok then join a guild, but even that is getting dumb with the whole GS fetish.
I understand what your saying, but I think what the OP is saying is that a level 68 green for instance should not be better then a level 70 blue. I also think that something you worked hard for should not be worth less then other gear that someone who started the game can get very easy.
Why should the level and color of an item matter? Each of these items was meant for different content and there is no reason why their stats should be comperable.
Also the items are worth the same: nothing. They are merely tools to get to the content. Once you move on from the content, they are merely trophies that remind you that you have done the content.
I understand what your saying, but I think what the OP is saying is that a level 68 green for instance should not be better then a level 70 blue. I also think that something you worked hard for should not be worth less then other gear that someone who started the game can get very easy.
Why should the level and color of an item matter? Each of these items was meant for different content and there is no reason why their stats should be comperable.
Also the items are worth the same: nothing. They are merely tools to get to the content. Once you move on from the content, they are merely trophies that remind you that you have done the content.
In a way, you are correct. The greens do come from WotLK and the blues he speaks of come from BC. Blizz has been doing screwy item disparity since thier first expansion. It's just something you gotta get use to until they deside to get their head out their asses.
Comments
I must be too old school of a gamer because this drives me crazy. All I hear it people saying that they endlessly grinder for gear and it was all for nothing. Jesus Kerist. Isn't the point of an mmo to play online with friends and have a good time? Did you hate getting the gear? If so, why did you do it? I have been playing mmo's for a looooong time. So long I had to add all of those Extra o's to the word long. Look at all those o's!
Point is, I have never felt the need to have the best everything. I played the way I wantred, pvped, won some and lost some. But I always had fun... if not, why would I have been playing? This need to have all epic'ed out gear is what's ruining these games. Did you honestly expect to have the best shit forever? If so, you would still be wearing the epics from the original game. They need to make better stuff old what's the point?
Just wear the new greens and try to enjoy getting the epics again. Because if it's not fun, why are you playing?
I play the parts that I enjoy and could not care less what gear drops. To me there is no need to look at a loot list for dungeon A or Boss B and then use that to determine if that part of the game still holds value for me or not. If I enjoy a dungeon or raid, I will repeat them as long as I find them enjoyable. When I want to murder fellow players I head for battlegrouds.
I do not let rewards determine what I will have enjoyment doing or when my game experience should end. The game is already designed to give enough rewards just for playing what you will enjoy that there is no need to stress over what item might or might not drop.
To me, this is the flip side of the same coin with people who think that gear is everything and you'd better get your gear quick or you're not worthy of a spot in our group. This gear oriented mentality drives me nuts. To me, the experiences mean something because of the accomplishment and because of the people you accomplish with. Gear? What the heck is that? The first time I led a group against Frostfire in CoH meant something. The first time I had a group of friends leveling through content together in CoH and finding it easier and easier as we got to know each other's play style meant something. My guild-mates taking me through my first heroic when I finally hit level 80 in WoW meant something. Completing Blackrock Depths with my nephews. The first time I was healing on a successful 25 man. Progressing through ICC with my guild. These meant something. When half the best raiders in a guild that I really liked bailed on us to go with a better geared guild and down the Lich King quicker - that meant something, too. It meant I never got the experience of downing the Lich King. It meant I lost interest in guilds and gear scores. I've done a lot of raiding and have a lot of epic equipment and I honestly couldn't tell you where I got most of the pieces. It's the experience that means something to me, not the gear. I know it's just different mindsets and there isn't necessarily a right or wrong way to look at it, but people like you really have a knack for wrecking games for people like me.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
^^ This
WOW is a de-socializing game. It has become a game of e-peen and l33t speak. It is about superficial competition and drives unnecessary wedges between people. The LFG feature now allows asshats and morons to spread their disease across many groups and venues rather than allowing their actions to cause them to become pariahs.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
Don't blame the game because of your own gear mentality. There is lot more to game then just gear grind. its the experince of leveling with your friends that counts. If players chose to rush to end game and grind for gear like zombies, its their choice but do not blame the game. You chose how to play and it is your responsibility.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
1) A lot of MMORPG players feel that leveling is the pre-game, and the max level starts the actual game that you spend most of your time playing. Blizzard caters to this.
2) Blizzard wants people to actually experience the content that they spent the last year or two working on. Part of the content is trying on new gear with new stats to see how it works on your character. It's not just the relative power levels they change, it's the balance of how the stats work as well. They want you to play with this.
3) Players get noticably more powerful as they level. This means all lower level content must be weaker than all higher level content.
4) You're going to replace your gear eventually anyway. You may as well replace it right away instead of 5 levels later.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I understand what the OP is talking about. Its a real kick in the balls to raid for months on end (granted enjoying it), but to have a xpac or even just an update (icc) come out and and make all your hard work go down the drain. Green at level 68 in wotlk were better then some blues from 70 in BC. I know I felt like crap when I raided ulduar 5 days a week to have ICC come out after I took a month off break to come back with all the emblem changes and there were people who just started the game not long before that, that had better gear then me. Its fine that they want to bring out knew stuff, but they need to still keep in mind that people have been playing the game for years and have worked hard at achiving something and not just think about money all the time and how they can please the console gamer who wants all purples the day he turns max level. IMO when you reach top level you should have to earn the right to go into heroics or raid. Anyone who tells me that they needed to work hard to get into heroics in wotlk is full of crap. Every one of my 80's started running heroics the same day and it was easy. BC atleast did a bit better and made you get keyed.
I can imagine the fuss there would be (not least among raiders) if a new expansion came out with higher content but without better gear.
The OP's feeling that he wasted his time working hard for the previous best gear is difficult to follow. He presumably enjoyed doing it, otherwise why would he have been playing the game, and that level of gear served its purpose in (a) driving him on and (b) giving him the best means of progressing. The fact that he now starts over in pursuit of even better gear for even higher levels is simply the way in which these games are structured, and presents him with a challenge which is presumably what most people seek from a level-raising expansion?
There are essentially two groups of players here:
-those who play for the gear and base their game achievements on that
-those who play the game for the sake of playing the game and base their achievements on what they accomplished personally and/or as part of a team
I raided in vanilla WoW and went through a lot 'blood, sweat and tears' to get a nice set of purple epics. When BC came out I discarded those epics for the new greens without a second thought since the gear really meant nothing to me. The important stuff from vanilla WoW were the memories of the friendships I had and the great teamwork my guild developed over the months of raiding. In order for the expansion to take that away, someone would have to fill the gamebox with rocks and hit me over the head with it to give me amnesia.
Frankly, people who complain that an expansion has destroyed their achievements because their purple gear has become obsolete, seem to me like a bunch of weird losers. They are like those characters in holiday movies who have 'forgotten the true meaning of Christmas'.
Agree 100%. The OP seems to be forgetting why he was playing to begin with. The potential alternatives would have probably kept him from playing in the first place.
I understand what your saying, but I think what the OP is saying is that a level 68 green for instance should not be better then a level 70 blue. I also think that something you worked hard for should not be worth less then other gear that someone who started the game can get very easy.
The other side of your statement is that fact that other the raids which even that is starting to get stupid everything else is based on grouping with people that you have never seen before and will never see int he future. It used to be that you could make friends with people on your server and build on that relationship and run instances together. Now its all about joining a queue to group with people that either are so stupid that they dont know there class or they just dont talk. Not that it matters because you will most likely never see them again. I understand that most people will say, Ok then join a guild, but even that is getting dumb with the whole GS fetish.
Why should the level and color of an item matter? Each of these items was meant for different content and there is no reason why their stats should be comperable.
Also the items are worth the same: nothing. They are merely tools to get to the content. Once you move on from the content, they are merely trophies that remind you that you have done the content.
In a way, you are correct. The greens do come from WotLK and the blues he speaks of come from BC. Blizz has been doing screwy item disparity since thier first expansion. It's just something you gotta get use to until they deside to get their head out their asses.
Yes OP, it is just you.