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Why does every MMO game have to be mainstream crap?
sfly2000
Member Posts: 168
This is from my blog post found here: http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/sfly2000/122010/21276_Why-does-every-MMO-game-have-to-be-mainstream-crap
As I am always interested in playing multiplayer games...and lately mostly fantasy roleplaying games I must say I am terribly dissapointed at all the new games.
This has forced me to stick to a 9 years old game like Neverwinter Nights 1.
It is like an intelligent and non-manga looking version of WoW.
Every MMO game seems to be the same also. It is like the target audience is always the same.
I'm not talking about that I want an "indie" game. I just want a proper hardcore D&D fantasy MMO. How hard can it be?
Dungeons & Dragons Online is more like a joke. Yet another mainstream MMO game made for kids. No - I don't want to run around shooter style with a bunch of kids.
I'll stick to NWN. Wake me up if something actually worthy of my time shows up.
EVE is the only MMO game that dares to nibble on the edge of the MMO mainstream conciense.
I guess one reason is that only super big companies are involved in the development of theese games.
People need to stop and think about what MMO really means. Back to basics. All it says is that it is "Massively" and its "Multiplayer" and its "Online". Nowhere does it say that massive means a specific number of players on the server...or describes exactly how the game needs to work....so this actually gives the game developers a lot of freedom. If only the public could stop screaming "That is not an MMO!" whenever a company tries to do something remotely different....
I am probably the only one but I have big hopes for the next upcoming Neverwinter game by Cryptic Studios. It is probably grasping after straws...but it is all I have for now.
Comments
I personally thoguht DDO does a pretty good job for it was trying to do its a dungeon crawling mmo with a plot its voiced over and i felt pretty immeresed if the graphics were better or i had joined sooner i probably would have it as my main mmo i think indie mmos dont survive because they all include one game breaking idea like Darkfall has no skill cap so people can continue to lvl up or thats at least how i understand it. So noobs like myself never feel like they can catch up.
If your going to ban the trolls please for our sake ban the Fan Boys too.
I don't see where Neverwinter nights is an intelligent non-manga version of wow.
It's a completely different animal.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The only answer i can think of to your question (thread title) is that developers are trying to do what WoW did. not gonna happen, i can't stand WoW personally but it's success is the reason for all the jumk being thrown out these days.
The only question i would like answering is "Why do developers choose to make crap like whats coming out instead of putting the RPG back into the original title of the genre?" of course i have already answered my own question by the first paragraph in my post.
Ahh well.
First and foremost, the best adaption of Dungeons and Dragons ever made in my eyes and opinion knowing 2nd and 3rd edition rules is Neverwinter Nights. That one really balanced out the classes, but take notice how expansions made characters into super characters.
The problem with MMORPGs is that they are given the right to take money from you as you play the game through monthly fees or cash shops. Due to this the content is shaped to send the message of "if you don't cough up the cash, you will be made to suffer" attitude.Makea mistake and you pay with real money like buying scrolls to remove death penalty or buying in-game items to kill certain bosses. In the process that drains your bank account.
What I did was to buy a lot of steam packs and some other games on steam, so now I have around 70 - 80 games on steam along with 100+ Hard Copies of other games I own along with my console games and rather than waste my time playing MMORPGs that STEAL my TIME and years away, I have been going from one world to the next.
When you do that, you become a real gamer who has played games in many genres, platforms and divisions. I have been doing stuff like that since the 90s. Its an eye opener because you get these kids who think they know a game because they have PWNED players in 1 - 2 games for 1000 - 10000 hours but have no "REAL" gaming experience outside that game and that really is sad. To miss out so much for the sake of that one game they play, and call themselves gamers...
Bioware is trying to make a successor to Dungeons and Dragons called Dragon Age. The Game Dragon Age Origins, Awakenenings and all the DLC can be found for $37 on steam. Its a 25GB game, but the game will serve as the backdrop for a major story like Dragon Age II. Of course that is not all.....Bioware plans on releasing Table Top RPG book versions of the game and its world as well as many entities. They are out to try to make a "Superior" Dungeons and Dragons. I am happy because all that Wizards of the Coast have done is change the rules and rerelease the books over and over again....rather than adding a lot of content to the game. Its been one disaster after another...
I agree that MMORPGs are MMO, but they are FAR from being RPGs. Sorry, but giving me a "Warrior" or a "Mage" and having me cast spells or swing a sword does not EQUAL an RPG experience. I find more "roleplaying" involved in a battlefield in Modern Warfare I when my team is trying to survive the attacks of another team in Team Deathmatch and we are all communicating on trying to stay alive and tactics....while MMORPG gamers play against some crappy AI on bosses, standing 10 ft away from a boss, spamming skills in a certain order and if you mess up the order of spamming, everyone dies, while we KNOW we are facing opponents who can kill us since they are OTHER HUMAN PLAYERS who are in the same leagues we are in and know the game inside and out...and even if we have 100 health and the highest damaging weapons, we can get sniped and killed....We have mortality involved.
That makes a lot more sense than endless spamming near-dead AI opponents. Seriously, if a team of 15 year olds can own up AIs like that, what are adults doing defending the "greatness" of this genre? On top of all that, how can I take MMORPGs seriously when all the Advertisements to the games feel like soft-core porn of a girl saying "play me" indirectly and throwing a tease at male players?
Obviousley never played DnD before, either that or you never actually tried to like any of them, heres a hint, $E DnD is great, best D&D sustem yet, apparently you dont get how games like this work, ill happily sit here and watch your nerd rage as they bring out more rpg books for the dragon age game, because, you know, thats kinda what people want from games like these.
Again, you obviousley never played much DnD if you think they havnt added anything.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
> Why does every MMO game have to be mainstream crap?
I think it boils down to money. From what I've seen, it is too expensive to produce high-end content and not chase mainstream players. Even the majority of low-end games chase mainstream for the same reason. Price versus Earnings.
Why do companies go mainstream? its simple - MONEY
its where most of the potential customers lie.
It's not an MMO anymore, it is now literally a single-player game with co-op optional. There was an article about this a while ago. My guess is after the flop of both CO and STO, they realized their MMO-ness is not up to snuff and didn't want to chance it. Hate to burst your bubble, dude.
Here's the article: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6041/not_so_cryptic_neverwinter_and_a_.php
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
for the same thing to keep coming out over and over and over and over and over agaIn. they must be making money somehow because they keep doing the same damn thing time and time again. Everyone wants to make as much money as possible as quick as possible. no one is interested in the long haul it seems like.
just hype it up, get the box out the door, subscriptions are a plus.
They know they will sell too because just about every mainstream MMO player is foaming at the mouth for the next world of warcraft. and that is exactly what they will get every time.
They think they can earn money but every new mainstream MMO that comes along always seems to fail.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
I also think a contributing factor is companies see these indie games come out, games people claim they want, then see that people really don't play them.
If all these games were so great(and whatever game you think would be great) then the market would provide it.
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
Very few MMOs fail financially.
Granted they may not make what Blizzard gets from WoW or what the money men wanted but thats a different thing altogether.
WAR for example is considered a huge failure by the MMO community at large, but is still making enough of a profit for conitnued milking (I like WAR btw).
Yeah, why don't more companies invest millions of dollars of venture capital to develop games that will only appeal to a handful of players?
darkfall online is not your normal commercial or mainstream mmo. It consider darkfall the best mmo i have ever played. most people have no idea what the game is about or how it is but once they try it they will not be able to play any other type of mmo. believe me although people say there is to much grind in reality what mmo doesnt have grind. Its overexagarated i say you check it out. Its not mainsteam and they even built there own game engine.
AAA companies design mainstream mmos because that where the safest money is. We the mmo community are such a finicky bunch no one in their right mind would toss millions of dollars towards us without playing it safe.
Then you have indie companies that do release non-mainstream crap but it is buggy, glichy and not AAA standard. So we bitch, complain and rant. Then we all dive off like rats from a sinking ship and the indie game goes under.
God I remember when I started UO it was a complete mess at times.
Define fail? they make enough proft to keep servers on. As long as they are making money they could care less. Not every MMO needs 12 million subs to be successful.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
This game has more grind then usual..hence the offline skillups, or the afk grinders. Otherwise, yes this game could be fun and different. And one day they will have a fun sandbox game that isn't full loot. (Still missing pre cu swg)
It is so funny that people suggest the same mainstream MMO crap games as what I am talking about.
It seems that what THEY think differs from WoW...for me looks all the same.
Don't take this the wrong way...not disrespecting here...just pointing out that we are not on the same planet.
Then it is this about the action. Why does everything have to move towards action...or shooters if you like. Just because your character can levelup doesn't automatically mean it is a roleplaying game. I think people seriously should take a look at how roleplaying is going on a Neverwinter Nights server. I'm not talking hardcore roleplaying...but just your normal "medium" roleplaying where most people actually stay immersed on an adventure trip.
The most important part of all theese games is that they are not designed for this at all. They just look childish, sci-fi or whatever...even though they are supposed to be fantasy. The controls, camera, maps, spawns, NPC's...everything is designed against that kind of gameplay that I like.
I know I can not whine about this forever. I am just saying....and I am just saying that I have to wait for something different....and please....stop posting about other mainstream crap MMO games here please....lol (irony - read whole text).
Buy Neverwinter Nights 1 here! | Unofficial NWN1 homepage | NWN1 guild on X-Fire
I agree that Biowares NWN is the best multiplayer RPG ever made and I played if for a rather long while. Now I do however play Guildwars instead, it is actually not that bad and at times rather challenging.
The reason that most MMOs are so mainstream is of course that MMOs cost a lot of money, I am not sure that you can do one with acceptable quality under 50M$ even with a great crew. And it is the investors that is the problem, they don't like gambling 50-150 million dollars so they don't take any chances.
There are a few companies that makes different games, even some with competent people on like CCP/WW, Arenanet and Bethesda (who have been working on a MMO for a few years now.
I myself wish some companies would try from the beginning and take a pen and paper RPG and turn it into a online game instead of just continuing with what everyone else is doing but with a few small differences. CCP is doing that together with white wolf and World of darkness online will probably come out in 1-3 years.
I wouldn't keep my breath on NWNO. I remember how Obsidian messed up NWN2 and Cryptic are worse then them, I wish Atari never got the license and Bioware stayed with forgotten realms instead of Ferelden.
The fact that something is mainstream doesn't make it bad BTW, NWN is also mainstream but it made it's own standard at the time. The problem is more that the companies have so few ideas and just copy and paste from earlier games.
I want an online version of Runequest or Shadowrun based on the mechanics of the P&P game. A Shadowrun with levels and hitpoints would be so bad and probably what we get however if someone ever makes it into a MMO (I am happy Microsoft lost the license).
Microsoft did by far the worse ever with Shadowrun...They got off easy losing the license. I am surprise that development team wasn't shot with how poor of a development that was....ouch!
OP for the same reason a hamburger is 2 pieces of bread with some fried/grilled/cooked ground brahmin meat in the middle
This guy provides a very neat answer in this blog:
http://nilsmmoblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/market-segmentation.html
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
I suggest playing Vanguard and Fallen Earth.
I'm currently sub'ing both after ending my WoW sub last month and I'm loving my time in both games.
Both have a ton of depth and basically kick "mianstream" in the teeth lol
And YES, Vanguard does have a solid community of players and a good influx of new players checking out the game.
Play on the Telon (NA) server and you'll be fine!
Good Hunting!
"It'll be dark soon."
"Aye...that it will."