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Is grouping better and more frequent since expansion?
Angelbound
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,437
Title saids it all thanks.
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No , only for dungeons. . . Another single player online game
Sighs in frustration thank you.
Grouping? Well, if you like you can group in dungeons, but there's absolutely no need unless you feel a need to maximize your gear. (Not that you need to, the random green stuff that drops is more than adequate to level up your character.
So I'd have to say no, there is not more frequent grouping, much less than we used to do in vanilla W'OW days.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Where the hek are the good mmos!?????? I am going to explode all.
More frequent? That question is what I'm curious about. There's ALWAYS been grouping. Raids, Dungeons, Battlegrounds, Arenas... what more could there be? You want more group quests? Group quests are only good at the initial start of the expansion. Once the mass majority has leveled then it's almost impossible to find groups for it... this is evident in ALL games.
Yep what he said. I resubbed recently to have a look at the revamped zones and new quests. I'm quite enjoying it as it does a better job at story telling now and there are some pretty amusing things that pop up from time to time. Thats the problem though. Everyone is too busy reading/playing the story Blizzard has prepared for them individually. There just isnt any incentive or reason to group with anyone else unless you teleport yourself into a dungeon, but even then half the time people dont talk and just rush through it as fast as they can. I can read a book without assistance and the same applies to WoW.
Like Wrender said the bulk of World of Warcraft is just an online single player game dumped on a server where the player reads a story and levels up and watches other players running around doing the same. The option to team up is there but completely unnecessary, as Blizzard has already decided on your behalf what you will be doing in the game and has made it extremely easy to do it. Thats why Blizzard are focusing so much on making their stories as entertaining as possible. They know very well what WoWs limitations are, and the big one is that it simply hasnt been designed as a proper multiplayer game. It never has been. Also with the introduction of lots of quests that use phasing, it seperates the players even further. Half the time other players cant even see the content you are seeing based on what stage of Blizzards story you are in.
Its a shame really. I was playing WoW last night and the game world just looks so interesting and alive......and yet the "world" aspect of WoW is the part where the players matter the least. The whole world could be instanced like in Guildwars and I dont think it would matter too much. All I would lose is being able to see other avatars running around. The other players only have any relevance when you go into the real multiplayer parts of the game in dungeons and battlegrounds.
A good mmo? I dont think I've seen one of those for years. Keep your fingers crossed for next year.
Ummm, not to derail this thread or anything, but give me the name of an MMORPG that doesn't do this. The bulk of the game is the end-game really, not the leveling IMO. There's nothing in place to prevent you from joining a guild and interacting with them while you level. I honestly don't know what to tell you guys. It's always been this way in all games. The only game that comes to mind that tried to break this cycle was Warhammer: Online by having the little event things in certain zones, but even that grew stale as the mass majority of the player base out leveled them.
If you want a multi-player experience right out of the box, then RPGs aren't the type for you. Go play team based games like FPSs or RTSs.
So you where around older mmorpgs like everquest, anarchy online, ashrons call, dark ages of camelot? You are way off base there bud plenty of mmorpgs did this in the beggening cox still does this.
I've played those games in the past and saw no such thing. If you could please elaborate on your claim I'll see what I missed.
All those games almost had forced grouping, and games like eq1,vangaurd, even ac where about the joruney as much as endgame dont believe me go ask in the pub. I doubt you played them back in the day either.
I have and quite frankly don't remember any of that. To be honest "forced" grouping sounds much worse than no grouping at all... How would one deal with needing to group when there is no one to group with?
And please elaborate more on what exactly you needed to group for, you've made me curious now.
I've read a lot people saying, that even the 5-man, perhaps the most fun and most used way grouping, is getting even worse now that players are kicking certain classes constantly and being easily all bitchy about everything, due to bigger chance for wiping and the nature of dungeon search tool. All WoW has now is the 10-man PuG or guild raids, in my opinion. Only reason worth coming back for, I feel. Logging in twice a week for guild raid is probably best way to enjoy WoW.
How is running a dungeon not grouping? Just because your grouping with people from other realms doesn't make it less of a group. Or am I missing something? You still need to work together to finish the dungeon. Also, you can queue for dungeons as a group. So if you know a few people but is missing say a healer, you just get a random healer. I think the dungeon finder is great. Back in the day it would usually take about an hour or more only to assemble a group to do a dungeon. Now it can in best case be almost instant.
So many people just bitch and moan anymore.
These games can be played solo for sure. And when you hit max level guess what? You will have 0 people that have played with you or have any reason in the world to worry or care about you at all.
You want groups? It is really easy. Just bring along a family member or a real life friend or 2 and lo..you have a group. Here is where people will say that then the content is trivial for groups:) well duh. Refer to first line..
Any game will be more fun with a group of people that actualy talk to each other:) No matter how hard or easy.
Seriously, if people spent as much time looking for real life people that they actualy know to play games with, as they do moaning about how there are no games like the good old days..
Ok my friends do not play mmos so no its not that easy for me, secondaly there was allot of forced grouping in those games these are the first mmorpgs and espically everquest 1 not 2 if you thought I was talking about 2, cannot believe you did not see how allot of content requires grouping, espically vangaurd.
Now dungoens I can live with, it was a question it was not bitching or moeaning as you say, I just prefer to group that is my choice that is what is fun for me is to group while leveling up endgame is not everything to me.
Anyways I may give it a try again.
You really cannot judge the game by it's leveling... the VAST majority of the people playing are already max level. Get to that point before you choose whether or not you like it.
Well I am not going to judge a game by its leveling b ut I am going to look for what I personally enjoy in mmorpgs, its not my problem if you disagree with that.
its the same grouping as its always been, why mess with something that works.
judging by your posts you like games like lineage 2 and the such, where you run around in a group grinding for hours. Lineage 2 is still going strong maybe its better suited to you?
City of Heroes
Eve Online
Lord of the Rings Online
If you want something like WoW, LotRO is your best bet. It has a better story, but more grouping. Eve is great if you prefer scifi or sandbox games, and has a massive universe that is player-driven. City of Heroes is pretty much universally great. There are plenty of great MMOs beyond WoW, you just have to look for them.
I wanted to add in something to think about.. It just doesnt' apply to WoW but others using the same quest driven gameplay.. In my opinion a game that focuses on questing is one of the key factors of why people "solo" WoW and avoid group play unless they are doing a dungeon or raid.. In fact I would say that questing in WoW is the number one reason why people prefer soloing then grouping.. Why? Actually pretty simple.. Other then powerleveling, questing is the fastest way to level, in addition many need to quest to unlock content in the game, or to "phase" through it.. The problem comes when not everyone is on the same quest.. I can't begin to count how many times I've tried grouping, and it always seemed that everyone wanted to do something else.. Player A has quest 1,2, 4 and 5.. Player B has quest 2, 3, and 7 and Player C has quest 4, 6, 8 and 9.. The potential group is split on what to do first.. Most people that play this game will choose to solo "THEIR OWN" quest, instead of helping others when they have already done that questline..
So in conclusion, a game that is primarly about questing actually HURTS the social community.. YES, end game heroics and raiding forces people together NOT because they want to, but because they HAVE to.. Think about it.. if people could pug the raids as easily as guids, How many guilds do you think would still be in existance? I would suspect that many guilds would fold and close up shop.. I prefer being social becasue I want to, not because I have to.. Big Difference and I think many devs today can't see the difference.. Just like when I go golfing.. SURE I could go solo and play 18 holes by myself, but it's much more enjoyable to play with friends.. Same with amusement parks, do you prefer to go alone or with friends?
OK I take on the challenge here:
So let's compare >Lotro with WOW then in a typical post Cata quest.
Main Questing line: your end goal must be to destroy the camp of an enemy breed.
First step: you need to assemble a bomb: Can be done in both: you do a collecting quest of several mats.
Second step: you need to do it in a PvP zone with enemy players lurking around you: impossible with Lotro (no extra suspension at all).
Third Step: the final mechanism of the bomb lays on the bottom of a river : impossible to design in Lotro, because no underwater/swimming. (Oh did I forgot to mention the ring WAS found on the bottom of a river in the original story).
Fourth step: once all parts are collected and assembled, you are put on a flying mount to bomb the target from the air on top of that mountain: impossible to do in Lotro - no full designed 3D world, never mind climbing that painted mountain, it can't be done: no flying creatures either (Oh sorry if the original story had flying mounted creatures).
Fifth step : after you bombed the place there is a HUGE crater forever in post Cata questing Changing the zone to a more friendly place for your character... Impossible in Lotro, the place is the same as before, no friendly new place possible.
Sixth step: you are directed to a nearby dungeon to down the big boss of those breed. You call upon a mechanism that supplements for you the needed players IF your guildies and friends are not all on line, searching in auto mode for 2, 3 or more player 24/24 Hrs a day. You randomly meet those adventurers taking all the risks of meeting with strangers (great extra challenge like the old days of RPG's).
So only the first step of a very traditional 6 step MMO questing line can be implemented in Lotro.
-----
And to end on topic:
Notice that only the LAST step implied a grouping tool (excellent tool by the way to find "holes" in the friends availability groups).
Video games are individually played for the most part. The grouping has to be automatic and never should it put a stress on the time consument of the player.
MMO's are on line games with a twist. Blizzard was the first to find that twist.
That's why one game now has 40 times more players than the "free to pay" ones. Stunning financial conclusions.
Op said 'forced grouping' atleast 4 times. Sorry but forced grouping doesn't make grouping fun or MMO fun by any means. i think you are looking for a wrong game here because MMO's have done away with this old concept of forcing players in to grouping. You should play FFXI, it will suit your needs more.
The only part where I have fun in wow is in the dungeons. So yeah forced grouping does make it fun for me.
True story,
I was in a group the other day as a healer, The pally tank, would not use rightious fury after many hails. Now the twist is, the other members of the group were defending him saying "its his choice".....I was kicked from that group because i would not let the problem go...
Now, I could speculate that the tank, May not have any group experience because he was out there "questing all day" but such claims are unprovable, and therefore speculative.
Problem is, i encounter this all the time on a variety of classes, People not knowing the mechanics of there classes. this occurs in the whole leveling spectrum, even at 85 heroics, people dont interupt, or CC.
Im not an elitist, i give people a fair chance at stuff i even offer to help them. but Seems to me that the community (sry for the generalization) seem fair too ignorant these days to care.
So no. I dont think grouping is better, and I think the quality of groups will decline even more.
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