Why our perfect sandbox MMO ain't out yet?

Manasu

I guess all of you understand what I am going to express in this thread.And I am really

sorry if it's a "repost".So let's start from the theme-park MMOs..Big companies,HUGE

budgets and countless developers just for the sake of them..And arguably a really big part of MMO industry is based on them.Many many different titles,themes,backrounds but..slightly differences between them,and bla bla bla you all know...

But what about the sandbox MMOs? Undoubtedly there are some succeeded ones...or two actually..EVE and Ultima Online.Talking about completely freedom ofcourse.(And by the way note that, none of them is based on the likes of the majority of teenagers, the first one made on a really complicated sci-fi world,and the second an "old-fashioned" 2D graphics game.While most teens like nice-looking darkelves,trolls,gnomes etc. hack'n'slash/bloody combat system,stunning graphics/landscapes, and something that feels "epic" as they say,but this is not the subject).

So I was just wondering why the best themepark MMO is already out on the 3th expansion,and the best sandbox MMO ain't even on beta yet? Sure,the PvP-addicts found their paradise on Darkfall.The crafting-addicts/creative builders on Tale in the Desert/Wurm online.But what about the others,who I guess are the biggest amount?..Just a MMO that combines Darkfall's combat system/graphics with all UO's features.Or a PvE/PvP based Xsyon/Wurm with a realistic FPS combat system..

Where is our sandbox paradise?

 

 

(P.S: I am really sorry for the bad use of language!)

ProfRed

Arche Age maybe?

Manasu

Originally posted by ProfRed

Arche Age maybe?

I had a look at it already,but I'm afraid that there is not much information released about it yet.

VengeSunsoar

What reason or evidence have we offered that would convince investors that this type of game is worth spending millions on?  We won't get a really good sandbox until we can convince them that they stand a reasonable shot of getting their money back.

Venge Sunsoar

kishe

Making a proper sandbox MMO with modern technology would take three times as many resources as making theme park would.

 

Just take a look at how much SWG development cost and think about how much more expensive developing mmos have come since then.

AlysenMinase

Ultima Online is still running. I return every now and then, and each time I log in there's people in the starting town.

Manasu

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

What reason or evidence have we offered that would convince investors that this type of game is worth spending millions on?  We won't get a really good sandbox until we can convince them that they stand a reasonable shot of getting their money back.

Venge Sunsoar

Exactly,I suppose that sandbox MMO is burried under the money pressure of the gaming industry.

Manasu

Originally posted by AlysenMinase

Ultima Online is still running. I return every now and then, and each time I log in there's people in the starting town.

Yeah no doubts about it, I already stated that EVE and UO are really succeeded concerning playerbase mostly.

Manasu

Originally posted by kishe

Making a proper sandbox MMO with modern technology would take three times as many resources as making theme park would.

 

Just take a look at how much SWG development cost and think about how much more expensive developing mmos have come since then.

Indeed,but when I'm talking about a "sandbox paradise" I also include a big community(=people that pay),but still I'm not sure if devs will "take their money back"..

VooDoo_Papa

Earthrise

Its due out in February.  Although, its a sci-fi (or post appocolyptic to be 100% correct) its going to be one of the better sandboxes to have have come out since Eve which is shares a lot in common with.

Manasu

Originally posted by VooDoo_Papa

Earthrise

Its due out in February.  Although, its a sci-fi (or post appocolyptic to be 100% correct) its going to be one of the better sandboxes to have have come out since Eve which is shares a lot in common with.

Fingers crossed? Have to try first..

Cik_Asalin

Originally posted by Manasu

Originally posted by VooDoo_Papa

Earthrise

Its due out in February.  Although, its a sci-fi (or post appocolyptic to be 100% correct) its going to be one of the better sandboxes to have have come out since Eve which is shares a lot in common with.

Fingers crossed? Have to try first..

Agreed...but we can only hope...I'm anticipating it as well, and hope my expectations don't blow it for me....I'm keeping them in check.

VooDoo_Papa

Originally posted by Manasu

Originally posted by VooDoo_Papa

Earthrise

Its due out in February.  Although, its a sci-fi (or post appocolyptic to be 100% correct) its going to be one of the better sandboxes to have have come out since Eve which is shares a lot in common with.

Fingers crossed? Have to try first..

ya I got my fingers crossed too, man

I followed the game for a really long time then just forgot about it.  Hearing the release news really surprises me, I had no idea they were even beta testing it.  All I can figure is it must be all in-house because something would have leaked about it by now.

Excalaber2

Answer to the original question:  Because I'm not done making it yet....duh!

Axehilt

Originally posted by Excalaber2

Answer to the original question:  Because I'm not done making it yet....duh!

Which then transitions into a discussion of the details of your perfect sandbox MMO...

...which then devolves into dispute over it being the perfect sandbox...

...and that debate itself would answer the question of why "our" perfect sandbox MMO doesn't exist yet.

Manasu

Hmm I see your point Axehilt,but as I've stated at the top; g.e. A MMO with DF's combat system/graphics combined with UO features would be close to perfect for a vast amount of people.

ProfRed

Originally posted by Manasu

Originally posted by ProfRed

Arche Age maybe?

I had a look at it already,but I'm afraid that there is not much information released about it yet.

http://aaportal.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=72⟨=en

http://aaportal.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65&Itemid=83⟨=en

http://aaportal.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57&Itemid=78⟨=en

Some people think it's a indie korean MMORPG, but that isn't true.  Jake Song is a huge player from Lineage and Aion, and the project already has a Chinese publishing contract worth 50-60 million making it the 2nd biggest Korean game export deal only behind Aion/NCSoft.

There is no news of an America publisher yet, but it will be here.  He has been doing exclusive American interviews so he definitely will bring it over here. 

It uses the Cry 2 engine from Crysis with a full physics system and destructable terrain.  Huge open world with crafted houses, ships, and player settlements.  I think castles were mentioned as well.  The ship combat looks great already, and there is physics with players such as if you are riding a horse and the horse is killed the player will fall off, and everyone that dies falls based on their animation, their corpses can be kicked, and they can tumble down cliffs.  It is a skill based system with skill caps.  It is hugely based on Ultima Online systems, but with a robust PvE system built in to accompany it as well.  There was also hinting at being able to burn others houses down.

There is also a really cool map editing system in where I believe you can create, save, and sell maps and be a cartographer.

Lots of info actually out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt894aENUiE&feature=related

Greymoor

Many may not agree but Darkfall does have good PvE content to be had and is sandbox. Perfect? Nah. Enjoyable? Definately.

From basic to high end mobs having a good AI makes it challenging, it feels like they don't want to die by any cost.

Difficult and rare mobs are spread around Agon, Deathless mages, Devils, Demons, Red Dragon, Ice Dragon, All rare-golems, KRAKKEN!!, infact there's so many difficult mobs that require team work or mobs that need you to be on your toes.

Less demanding dungeons are good for soloing or a small group. Some dungeons have their own quests for good rewards.

Dungeons where you'd take 5-10 people in, mobs are very dangerous but the loot is worth it. Not to mention the chests in there too.

The middle dungeon, that place is crazy. Most definately a good PvE experience.

 

However what seems to detract from the PvE experience for most hardcore PvErs is the possibility of being ganked and PvP happening. Personal choice really.

Germaximus_S

Sandbox is enjoyed by a much smaller community of gamers.

I left Everquest for WoW because i knew WoW would be more casual friendly. Everquest drove me insane, it is the devil.

If you truly want a sandbox game just pick up whats available now. I know of 2 sandbox games planned for 2011 (i forget the names) but if you take a step back and look at it, 2 sandbox games announced for 2011 while 10 more "WoW clones" will come out.

Theres just more money in a more casual friendly game because its easier for people to obtain their goals in these games and actually feel  rewarded.

Side note: WoW felt less and less rewarding with every single expansion, still very fun content but no reward.

 

So why isnt your perfect sandbox game out? It wont make as much money as the other games.

Thats my opinion anyways.

 

Ive been trying to check out Mortal Online but they fail at helping me with account recovery so i say f*** em. If a simple thing like that takes so long to do then i just dont know.

Manasu

@Greymoor

 Actually I have played Darkfall for a long time...I'm not saying that I didn't like it, I loved its comat system and the PvP.But apparently the crafting system/economy is something that I did not enjoy,nor the PvE which doesn't really have any wise tactics/strategies-just circle the mob and kill it.And arguably this game is almost perfect for many.

Manasu

Originally posted by monstermmo

Sandbox is enjoyed by a much smaller community of gamers.

I left Everquest for WoW because i knew WoW would be more casual friendly. Everquest drove me insane, it is the devil.

If you truly want a sandbox game just pick up whats available now. I know of 2 sandbox games planned for 2011 (i forget the names) but if you take a step back and look at it, 2 sandbox games announced for 2011 while 10 more "WoW clones" will come out.

Theres just more money in a more casual friendly game because its easier for people to obtain their goals in these games and actually feel  rewarded.

Side note: WoW felt less and less rewarding with every single expansion, still very fun content but no reward.

 

So why isnt your perfect sandbox game out? It wont make as much money as the other games.

Thats my opinion anyways.

 

Ive been trying to check out Mortal Online but they fail at helping me with account recovery so i say f*** em. If a simple thing like that takes so long to do then i just dont know.

 You really have a point man,and I totally agree.But I doubt that there is found yet a sandbox MMO that would attract all  the audience of this kind of MMOs,that's why communities are and will stay small..

Zoulz

...because there is no such thing as perfect. Utopia does not exist.

Greymoor

Originally posted by Manasu

@Greymoor

 Actually I have played Darkfall for a long time...I'm not saying that I didn't like it, I loved its comat system and the PvP.But apparently the crafting system/economy is something that I did not enjoy,nor the PvE which doesn't really have any wise tactics/strategies-just circle the mob and kill it.And arguably this game is almost perfect for many.

Crafting system... it's meh. Could use more freedom and variables to be a real sandbox crafting system.

Economy, player vendors and easier travel has made many players very rich. Easy to buy and sell the majority of items but apprently that doesn't count as a real economy. Not sure how to improve myself but i'm sure it's possible.

Circling a mob and killing it only works on lower end solo mobs really, higher mobs will have special abilities, kill you in a few hits, place deadly dots, pop out of the ground ect.

- You most certainly don't circle and wack the mob here.

Nor do you with any higher lvl mob really, they're more intelligent than they were at launch. Careful healing is the key.

Too many people around the Gorr Darr for example causes it to start spamming a high damage aoe knockback, most ranged moves do little damage.

 

Krakken. Don't melee strafe this mob. Hilarious vid incoming.

Manasu

Originally posted by Zoulz

...because there is no such thing as perfect. Utopia does not exist.

So f****cking damn true.But always seek for the best one,right?

Manasu

Originally posted by Greymoor

Originally posted by Manasu

@Greymoor

 Actually I have played Darkfall for a long time...I'm not saying that I didn't like it, I loved its comat system and the PvP.But apparently the crafting system/economy is something that I did not enjoy,nor the PvE which doesn't really have any wise tactics/strategies-just circle the mob and kill it.And arguably this game is almost perfect for many.

Crafting system... it's meh. Could use more freedom and variables to be a real sandbox crafting system.

Economy, player vendors and easier travel has made many players very rich. Easy to buy and sell the majority of items but apprently that doesn't count as a real economy. Not sure how to improve myself but i'm sure it's possible.

Circling a mob and killing it only works on lower end solo mobs really, higher mobs will have special abilities, kill you in a few hits, place deadly dots, pop out of the ground ect.

- You most certainly don't circle and wack the mob here.

Nor do you with any higher lvl mob really, they're more intelligent than they were at launch. Careful healing is the key.

Too many people around the Gorr Darr for example causes it to start spamming a high damage aoe knockback, most ranged moves do little damage.

 

Krakken. Don't melee strafe this mob. Hilarious vid incoming.

Arguably the videos are just stunning...And would be fantatsic if  I could actually take part.But from my PoV, this ain't any tactic-wise PvE, it is mostly based on the special effects(on Ice Dragon) which are fucking astonishing sure,but it desn't really include any strategic or tactics..It is based mostly on the effects and on the combat system (targeting,healing,spells etc).And don't get my wrong,I do play DF-but in my opinion it lacks some features.

P.S: The Krakken video is pure epic!!