Get over ourselves? We're not the ones asking for a whole world to be completely killable by ourselves without the need of others' help..
Get over yourself..
But it's cool that you found that arrogant and stupid, most solo players will.. you are just saying what I predicted you would.. Anywho, as I said before, i really hate the term "Endgame".. So lets just use "epic loot".. You are right, everyone should be able to grab some epic loot.. But really should you be able to just go kill a simple solo mob to get it? Would it really be "epic" loot if everyone could just run out and kill the same mob and get the same item the same way you did?
You know during raids that there is a chance that you will not even get an item? hell, it might not even be for your class.. But when you help kill that epic boss, you are helping EVERYONE in your party get a chance at getting epic loot. Not only does this encourage teamwork, it actually makes epic items "epic" because of how rare they could actually end up being..
Yeah.. True story..
Endgame is not the same thing as epic loot.
Endgame is whatever you do after you are done leveling up.
It is usually grind instances until you have enough gear to raid or play battlegrounds or some other type of PvP.
I don't think soloplayers should get as good gear as group players. It is harder to co ordinate many people and the reward should be in proportion with the risk.
But that does not mean that soloplayers and crafters should have nothing to do once their character are maxed out. They need stuff to do as well.
I prefer that you can just look on a avatar and see if she solos, craft, groups or raids, like in AoC.But that is not the issue here, the issue is if there should be an endgame for soloplayers or not.
I personally think we need a lot more endgame options, or that we need to get rid of levels altogether.
Exactly, well said.
Well there’s tons of solo end game content, this is about being able to solo group and raid content.
Being part of a raiding guild: For everyone who ever wanted to live under a brutal dictatorship but prefers garish colors to communism's drab greys.
Lol, some are worse than others (like the one kicking the poor guy who lost his hearing). Some guilds are just strict while others are close to tyrannical.
Yeah, some start out with great intentions but grow ever more bitter as time goes on. That was my case, the more I realized the type of people I had to deal with every day, the worse I got until I finally realized I had become something I didnt' like. Thats when I gave up raiding all together. I still play WoW, but now I play solo and find the game far more enjoyable to be honest. A game should never engulf you to the point of taking away what you stand for.
Or are you wanting solo raid bosses that drop equal quality loot?
Yep.. i truly think this is what alot of people mean..
Basically, "how come I can't get epic loot (considered "endgame" equips) from solo mobs?"
I mean, like I said before. its not like the developers are doing that to just YOU.. EVERYONE has to group up and do epic bosses for epic loot.. No one is picking on the solo gamer, but the law of the land is that there are monsters that will (and rightfully should) kick your ass if you fight them alone.. There should really never be (unless it is a PvP-centric game) a point in the game where the hero is god like and there are no enemies stronger than him alone..
But this is why developers started giving mobs ranks. You always have your "basic" mobs that are soloable, and then you have your "champion" mobs that are tougher than basic mobs and require at least 2 people. These mobs can be grouped in the same area of mobs and can be avoided as well by any solo players that wish to remain in solitude.
This comment here is just arogant and stupid really. I'm sorry if that offends you but yeah really, it is. Wanting to experience Endgame is not about getting free/easy reward over others that have to work for it. You guys really need to get over yourselves on this one.
Get over ourselves? We're not the ones asking for a whole world to be completely killable by ourselves without the need of others' help..
Get over yourself..
But it's cool that you found that arrogant and stupid, most solo players will.. you are just saying what I predicted you would.. Anywho, as I said before, i really hate the term "Endgame".. So lets just use "epic loot".. You are right, everyone should be able to grab some epic loot.. But really should you be able to just go kill a simple solo mob to get it? Would it really be "epic" loot if everyone could just run out and kill the same mob and get the same item the same way you did?
You know during raids that there is a chance that you will not even get an item? hell, it might not even be for your class.. But when you help kill that epic boss, you are helping EVERYONE in your party get a chance at getting epic loot. Not only does this encourage teamwork, it actually makes epic items "epic" because of how rare they could actually end up being..
Yeah.. True story..
See this is where you and I are way off. End game to me is end game content, end game to you is freakin loot. Which one of us is right, hmm lets see. Oh yeah, if your greedy, and all you care about it your own self, then all you care about is putting better crap on so you can call yourself better than others. That would be the loot person right there. Me, I dont care about loot, period. End game to me is the content itself, the experience of the dungeon, the accomplishement of completing the challenge, proving that you can actually DO IT, not look like you can.
I can see why you would hate the term end game, since it doesn't mean anything to you. Top gear at level 14 is just as important to you as top gear at level 85. As long as its better crap then Joe standing next to you, and you can gloat about how freakin EPIC you are, well isn't that all that matters in your world?
Dude, I would have so kicked your ass from my guild if you ever got in it in WoW. Of course I wouldnt until I humilitated you and used you for months first though. Someone like you deserves nothing less I swear.
Yeah I bet you wish i woulda tried to join your guild in WoW.. As much as your sensative ass would like a pedestal to play on and people you know in RL to play with, it just isnt going to happen.. Now we can go as far as you want to take this.. I never said that all I care about is loot.. But I do think that for you to think that everything should be "tailor made for you and your wife" is rediculous.. Don't come to a party and demand that you have a room setup for you and your wife to chill in.. You are not that special.. get over it..
But yeah, while we are on the topic.. yeah.. i like gear.. i see it as a form of progression.. When you stop leveling, you go for the absolute BEST gear available.. That IS part of the endgame.. A WoW "guild leader" as prestigious as you are should have known this, as WoW is one of those games where it is most prominent.. All that grinding for gear at the end of the leveling treadmill.. Oh my bad, i forgot, you dont raid or anything because you hate everyone so you didn't get any right?
Go ahead.. kick me from your guild.. And while your at it.. lets have a toast for the douchebags..
Get over ourselves? We're not the ones asking for a whole world to be completely killable by ourselves without the need of others' help..
Get over yourself..
But it's cool that you found that arrogant and stupid, most solo players will.. you are just saying what I predicted you would.. Anywho, as I said before, i really hate the term "Endgame".. So lets just use "epic loot".. You are right, everyone should be able to grab some epic loot.. But really should you be able to just go kill a simple solo mob to get it? Would it really be "epic" loot if everyone could just run out and kill the same mob and get the same item the same way you did?
You know during raids that there is a chance that you will not even get an item? hell, it might not even be for your class.. But when you help kill that epic boss, you are helping EVERYONE in your party get a chance at getting epic loot. Not only does this encourage teamwork, it actually makes epic items "epic" because of how rare they could actually end up being..
Yeah.. True story..
Endgame is not the same thing as epic loot.
Endgame is whatever you do after you are done leveling up.
It is usually grind instances until you have enough gear to raid or play battlegrounds or some other type of PvP.
I don't think soloplayers should get as good gear as group players. It is harder to co ordinate many people and the reward should be in proportion with the risk.
But that does not mean that soloplayers and crafters should have nothing to do once their character are maxed out. They need stuff to do as well.
I prefer that you can just look on a avatar and see if she solos, craft, groups or raids, like in AoC.But that is not the issue here, the issue is if there should be an endgame for soloplayers or not.
I personally think we need a lot more endgame options, or that we need to get rid of levels altogether.
Exactly, well said.
Well there’s tons of solo end game content, this is about being able to solo group and raid content.
Ask yourself this, if you are someone who has played WoW since BETA and never liked to team with anyone, would you know what it looks like inside Nax? Does it matter if it doesn't have the raid bosses in it, if all you want to do is go in there and play? Maybe your willing to spend your entire weekend, 16 hours each day, just doing that one place by yourself. Maybe you dont care if you get anything but green drops. Maybe all you want to do is say you were there, and maybe just to yourself. How does that hurt anyone at all? Thats what I'm talking about when I say endgame content should be soloable. Not that I should be able to solo a raid boss by myself as he is presented to a raid. The dungeon itself is the content, not that one boss or what he drops. There are probably 30-35% of the 13 million subscribers in WoW that have never set foot in half the high end dungeons, not even once. Its an experience I think they should be allowed to have, even at a lower context with a lower reward. Those dungeons are what makes WoW, WoW.
EDIT: and for that other guy, no gear is not what WoW is all about. Grinding that high end gear to get better gear is not what end game is there for. Thats what the shallow people think its there for, thats where the gear score people came from. The game itself is about the experience of playing the game, being able to say you were there, that you did it. Not about whether or not you have the top teir gear within a week of it coming out. People who think its all about the gear have no loyalty to anyone but themselves. Thats why I said you would be used and discarded if in my guild. Because I know people who have no loyalty take what they want until they think they no longer need you then jump to the next raiding guild to use them for thier next fix. And the best thing for a guild overall is building loyalty and trust among its members. Getting rid of the users and takers as fast as you find out what they are can only help keep that loyalty and trust amongst those that are not. A guild full of people who trust each other, know how they play, why they play, and like to work together can accomplish far more than any guild built on the EPICness of thier gear.
Get over ourselves? We're not the ones asking for a whole world to be completely killable by ourselves without the need of others' help..
Get over yourself..
But it's cool that you found that arrogant and stupid, most solo players will.. you are just saying what I predicted you would.. Anywho, as I said before, i really hate the term "Endgame".. So lets just use "epic loot".. You are right, everyone should be able to grab some epic loot.. But really should you be able to just go kill a simple solo mob to get it? Would it really be "epic" loot if everyone could just run out and kill the same mob and get the same item the same way you did?
You know during raids that there is a chance that you will not even get an item? hell, it might not even be for your class.. But when you help kill that epic boss, you are helping EVERYONE in your party get a chance at getting epic loot. Not only does this encourage teamwork, it actually makes epic items "epic" because of how rare they could actually end up being..
Yeah.. True story..
Endgame is not the same thing as epic loot.
Endgame is whatever you do after you are done leveling up.
It is usually grind instances until you have enough gear to raid or play battlegrounds or some other type of PvP.
I don't think soloplayers should get as good gear as group players. It is harder to co ordinate many people and the reward should be in proportion with the risk.
But that does not mean that soloplayers and crafters should have nothing to do once their character are maxed out. They need stuff to do as well.
I prefer that you can just look on a avatar and see if she solos, craft, groups or raids, like in AoC.But that is not the issue here, the issue is if there should be an endgame for soloplayers or not.
I personally think we need a lot more endgame options, or that we need to get rid of levels altogether.
Exactly, well said.
Well there’s tons of solo end game content, this is about being able to solo group and raid content.
Ask yourself this, if you are someone who has played WoW since BETA and never liked to team with anyone, would you know what it looks like inside Nax? Does it matter if it doesn't have the raid bosses in it, if all you want to do is go in there and play? Maybe your willing to spend your entire weekend, 16 hours each day, just doing that one place by yourself. Maybe you dont care if you get anything but green drops. Maybe all you want to do is say you were there, and maybe just to yourself. How does that hurt anyone at all? Thats what I'm talking about when I say endgame content should be soloable. Not that I should be able to solo a raid boss by myself as he is presented to a raid. The dungeon itself is the content, not that one boss or what he drops. There are probably 30-35% of the 13 million subscribers in WoW that have never set foot in half the high end dungeons, not even once. Its an experience I think they should be allowed to have, even at a lower context with a lower reward. Those dungeons are what makes WoW, WoW.
then dont play the games which have end game group content? there are plenty of different "end games" out there in mmos. just need to find one which fits your play style. But until you start your own mmo company and make an mmo that you want, you have to remember these games are a business, and modeled after what the developer wants. No game will cater to every single person out there.
Get over ourselves? We're not the ones asking for a whole world to be completely killable by ourselves without the need of others' help..
Get over yourself..
But it's cool that you found that arrogant and stupid, most solo players will.. you are just saying what I predicted you would.. Anywho, as I said before, i really hate the term "Endgame".. So lets just use "epic loot".. You are right, everyone should be able to grab some epic loot.. But really should you be able to just go kill a simple solo mob to get it? Would it really be "epic" loot if everyone could just run out and kill the same mob and get the same item the same way you did?
You know during raids that there is a chance that you will not even get an item? hell, it might not even be for your class.. But when you help kill that epic boss, you are helping EVERYONE in your party get a chance at getting epic loot. Not only does this encourage teamwork, it actually makes epic items "epic" because of how rare they could actually end up being..
Yeah.. True story..
Endgame is not the same thing as epic loot.
Endgame is whatever you do after you are done leveling up.
It is usually grind instances until you have enough gear to raid or play battlegrounds or some other type of PvP.
I don't think soloplayers should get as good gear as group players. It is harder to co ordinate many people and the reward should be in proportion with the risk.
But that does not mean that soloplayers and crafters should have nothing to do once their character are maxed out. They need stuff to do as well.
I prefer that you can just look on a avatar and see if she solos, craft, groups or raids, like in AoC.But that is not the issue here, the issue is if there should be an endgame for soloplayers or not.
I personally think we need a lot more endgame options, or that we need to get rid of levels altogether.
Exactly, well said.
Well there’s tons of solo end game content, this is about being able to solo group and raid content.
Ask yourself this, if you are someone who has played WoW since BETA and never liked to team with anyone, would you know what it looks like inside Nax? Does it matter if it doesn't have the raid bosses in it, if all you want to do is go in there and play? Maybe your willing to spend your entire weekend, 16 hours each day, just doing that one place by yourself. Maybe you dont care if you get anything but green drops. Maybe all you want to do is say you were there, and maybe just to yourself. How does that hurt anyone at all? Thats what I'm talking about when I say endgame content should be soloable. Not that I should be able to solo a raid boss by myself as he is presented to a raid. The dungeon itself is the content, not that one boss or what he drops. There are probably 30-35% of the 13 million subscribers in WoW that have never set foot in half the high end dungeons, not even once. Its an experience I think they should be allowed to have, even at a lower context with a lower reward. Those dungeons are what makes WoW, WoW.
If you would have read all the posts then you would have noticed me say that I it would be cool to make group instances and raids soloable or completed with small groups as long as the loot reflected the difficulty and the scripting was different for a raid.
I also said that those who find it easy to make friends and find likeminded individuals also feel ripped off when their content is getting dumb downed for the me me me easy crowd which is the route devs seem to take and would most likley take instead of writing the code needed to make it scalable
None of this would be a problem if they'd make games with group-centered endgames be group-centered throughout the entirety of the game. It's the bait & switch that pisses people off.
Rift has a solo-potential endgame. You do NOT need to join a raid to do the rifts -- so if you are a solo player you can find an active rift that is being fought and either fight around the periphery of it or actively fight the monsters that other people are doing and help them all without joining a group. At the same time you get your rewards just fine -- it is just not determined so much by the other people. Of course if the monster turns on you, you do not have the healing support that way and you very well may die -- but such is the life of the devout soloist. I know -- I live it sometimes.
But at least it has an option unlike a lot of other games. EQ2 is kind of notorious that way by example -- you hit a brick wall at the endgame as a soloist. In the old old games there was often solo content somewhere and crafting was a very viable solo endgame as well -- it isnt so much with the recent games. Of course there was also Asherons call where solo was fine start to end.
None of this would be a problem if they'd make games with group-centered endgames be group-centered throughout the entirety of the game. It's the bait & switch that pisses people off.
i find that most games have suitable group content over all levels, but most choose to pass it by to reach end game faster.
Get over ourselves? We're not the ones asking for a whole world to be completely killable by ourselves without the need of others' help..
Get over yourself..
But it's cool that you found that arrogant and stupid, most solo players will.. you are just saying what I predicted you would.. Anywho, as I said before, i really hate the term "Endgame".. So lets just use "epic loot".. You are right, everyone should be able to grab some epic loot.. But really should you be able to just go kill a simple solo mob to get it? Would it really be "epic" loot if everyone could just run out and kill the same mob and get the same item the same way you did?
You know during raids that there is a chance that you will not even get an item? hell, it might not even be for your class.. But when you help kill that epic boss, you are helping EVERYONE in your party get a chance at getting epic loot. Not only does this encourage teamwork, it actually makes epic items "epic" because of how rare they could actually end up being..
Yeah.. True story..
Endgame is not the same thing as epic loot.
Endgame is whatever you do after you are done leveling up.
It is usually grind instances until you have enough gear to raid or play battlegrounds or some other type of PvP.
I don't think soloplayers should get as good gear as group players. It is harder to co ordinate many people and the reward should be in proportion with the risk.
But that does not mean that soloplayers and crafters should have nothing to do once their character are maxed out. They need stuff to do as well.
I prefer that you can just look on a avatar and see if she solos, craft, groups or raids, like in AoC.But that is not the issue here, the issue is if there should be an endgame for soloplayers or not.
I personally think we need a lot more endgame options, or that we need to get rid of levels altogether.
Exactly, well said.
Well there’s tons of solo end game content, this is about being able to solo group and raid content.
Ask yourself this, if you are someone who has played WoW since BETA and never liked to team with anyone, would you know what it looks like inside Nax? Does it matter if it doesn't have the raid bosses in it, if all you want to do is go in there and play? Maybe your willing to spend your entire weekend, 16 hours each day, just doing that one place by yourself. Maybe you dont care if you get anything but green drops. Maybe all you want to do is say you were there, and maybe just to yourself. How does that hurt anyone at all? Thats what I'm talking about when I say endgame content should be soloable. Not that I should be able to solo a raid boss by myself as he is presented to a raid. The dungeon itself is the content, not that one boss or what he drops. There are probably 30-35% of the 13 million subscribers in WoW that have never set foot in half the high end dungeons, not even once. Its an experience I think they should be allowed to have, even at a lower context with a lower reward. Those dungeons are what makes WoW, WoW.
then dont play the games which have end game group content? there are plenty of different "end games" out there in mmos. just need to find one which fits your play style. But until you start your own mmo company and make an mmo that you want, you have to remember these games are a business, and modeled after what the developer wants. No game will cater to every single person out there.
So let me see if I got this right. Blizzard has already figure dout how to make a dungeon function for a team of 5 on normal mode with appropriate drop levels. The same dungeon function differently for a team of raid of 10 and a raid of 20/25/40 with appropriate drops. The same dungeon again with a team of 5 on hardmode with again appropriate loot to the difficulty. But for some reason they can't figure out how ot make the same dungeon for 1?
Turbine has Skirmishes, similar to dungeon type content (in thier own little way), that can be set up for 1 person, 3 people, 5 people, or 10 people. Scalable mobs dificulty based on the group size, and scalable loot based off the group size. Dungeons that can be entered at levels 20-65, mob levels change depending on the level of the player going in, loot changes to go along with that. So why cann't Blizzard handle this agian? Turbine devs are smarter than WoW devs? Turbine devs get payed more? Turbine has a bigger budget than Blizzard?
The 'no game will cater to every single person' argument is really not a good one. Some games can and do scale thier content already. WoW already does just not to EVERYONE. The only reason I can see they dont is they dont want to. Converting a dungeon they already have set to 5 man, 10 man, 20/25/40 man, hardcore and making one more that is for 1 person shouldnt be a difficult feat on thier part.
Get over ourselves? We're not the ones asking for a whole world to be completely killable by ourselves without the need of others' help..
Get over yourself..
But it's cool that you found that arrogant and stupid, most solo players will.. you are just saying what I predicted you would.. Anywho, as I said before, i really hate the term "Endgame".. So lets just use "epic loot".. You are right, everyone should be able to grab some epic loot.. But really should you be able to just go kill a simple solo mob to get it? Would it really be "epic" loot if everyone could just run out and kill the same mob and get the same item the same way you did?
You know during raids that there is a chance that you will not even get an item? hell, it might not even be for your class.. But when you help kill that epic boss, you are helping EVERYONE in your party get a chance at getting epic loot. Not only does this encourage teamwork, it actually makes epic items "epic" because of how rare they could actually end up being..
Yeah.. True story..
Endgame is not the same thing as epic loot.
Endgame is whatever you do after you are done leveling up.
It is usually grind instances until you have enough gear to raid or play battlegrounds or some other type of PvP.
I don't think soloplayers should get as good gear as group players. It is harder to co ordinate many people and the reward should be in proportion with the risk.
But that does not mean that soloplayers and crafters should have nothing to do once their character are maxed out. They need stuff to do as well.
I prefer that you can just look on a avatar and see if she solos, craft, groups or raids, like in AoC.But that is not the issue here, the issue is if there should be an endgame for soloplayers or not.
I personally think we need a lot more endgame options, or that we need to get rid of levels altogether.
Exactly, well said.
Well there’s tons of solo end game content, this is about being able to solo group and raid content.
Ask yourself this, if you are someone who has played WoW since BETA and never liked to team with anyone, would you know what it looks like inside Nax? Does it matter if it doesn't have the raid bosses in it, if all you want to do is go in there and play? Maybe your willing to spend your entire weekend, 16 hours each day, just doing that one place by yourself. Maybe you dont care if you get anything but green drops. Maybe all you want to do is say you were there, and maybe just to yourself. How does that hurt anyone at all? Thats what I'm talking about when I say endgame content should be soloable. Not that I should be able to solo a raid boss by myself as he is presented to a raid. The dungeon itself is the content, not that one boss or what he drops. There are probably 30-35% of the 13 million subscribers in WoW that have never set foot in half the high end dungeons, not even once. Its an experience I think they should be allowed to have, even at a lower context with a lower reward. Those dungeons are what makes WoW, WoW.
then dont play the games which have end game group content? there are plenty of different "end games" out there in mmos. just need to find one which fits your play style. But until you start your own mmo company and make an mmo that you want, you have to remember these games are a business, and modeled after what the developer wants. No game will cater to every single person out there.
So let me see if I got this right. Blizzard has already figure dout how to make a dungeon function for a team of 5 on normal mode with appropriate drop levels. The same dungeon function differently for a team of raid of 10 and a raid of 20/25/40 with appropriate drops. The same dungeon again with a team of 5 on hardmode with again appropriate loot to the difficulty. But for some reason they can't figure out how ot make the same dungeon for 1?
Turbine has Skirmishes, similar to dungeon type content (in thier own little way), that can be set up for 1 person, 3 people, 5 people, or 10 people. Scalable mobs dificulty based on the group size, and scalable loot based off the group size. Dungeons that can be entered at levels 20-65, mob levels change depending on the level of the player going in, loot changes to go along with that. So why cann't Blizzard handle this agian? Turbine devs are smarter than WoW devs? Turbine devs get payed more? Turbine has a bigger budget than Blizzard?
The 'no game will cater to every single person' argument is really not a good one. Some games can and do scale thier content already. WoW already does just not to EVERYONE. The only reason I can see they dont is they dont want to. Converting a dungeon they already have set to 5 man, 10 man, 20/25/40 man, hardcore and making one more that is for 1 person shouldnt be a difficult feat on thier part.
ok, my understanding was that the op wanted the same end game and rewards for the single player as well as the group play. If i read it wrong then i apologize.
I agree you should be able to solo - not everyone has the ability to organize a really good group of people - not everyone has the same schedule - everyone has a different objective so on and so forth if someone wants to solo it should be accesible to them and not voided to the generic comment you shouldn't play MMOs - if someone wants to do it let them do it - I do both but if there was an option to do something solo I would so i can do it on my own paste and not worry that im holding someone else back from there free time to play the game
ok, my understanding was that the op wanted the same end game and rewards for the single player as well as the group play. If i read it wrong then i apologize.
Oh no, your right on that part, it does look like the OP also wants the same gear solo that groups get. I'm agreeing with everyone here on that he is wrong to think he should get that. But, he also says he should be able to 'encounter' the villian as a 'hero' on his own if he wants to. To experience the game in its entirety on the content side as well. This part I agree with him on, as I think everyone should be able to experience the game as a whole. The difficulty would be lower, and loot definately not up to par as that earned by the team/raid. It does take a lot of effort to coordinate a good raid to victory, and that can never be justifiably rewarded equally to a solo player, no matter how godly they may be. 20 people playing thier characters flawlessly together is just not the same as one person doing so.
So let me see if I got this right. Blizzard has already figure dout how to make a dungeon function for a team of 5 on normal mode with appropriate drop levels. The same dungeon function differently for a team of raid of 10 and a raid of 20/25/40 with appropriate drops. The same dungeon again with a team of 5 on hardmode with again appropriate loot to the difficulty. But for some reason they can't figure out how ot make the same dungeon for 1?
Turbine has Skirmishes, similar to dungeon type content (in thier own little way), that can be set up for 1 person, 3 people, 5 people, or 10 people. Scalable mobs dificulty based on the group size, and scalable loot based off the group size. Dungeons that can be entered at levels 20-65, mob levels change depending on the level of the player going in, loot changes to go along with that. So why cann't Blizzard handle this agian? Turbine devs are smarter than WoW devs? Turbine devs get payed more? Turbine has a bigger budget than Blizzard?
The 'no game will cater to every single person' argument is really not a good one. Some games can and do scale thier content already. WoW already does just not to EVERYONE. The only reason I can see they dont is they dont want to. Converting a dungeon they already have set to 5 man, 10 man, 20/25/40 man, hardcore and making one more that is for 1 person shouldnt be a difficult feat on thier part.
Why is that so hard for you to understand? The content is made for a group. It's made for a tank dps and healer. Don't be naive and pretend like it's the same thing to scale something from a group event to an even bigger group event is the same is scaling something for each individual class/role, you're only fooling yourself.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that making that available to each squishy dps, and no dps healer/tank will simply not be cost effective. Could it be possible? Yes, but could you imagine the amount of tweaking for each instance and all of it's encounters to accomodate each role/class? Just for the off chance that some queen doesn't want to take part in the way it's meant to be played?
You were talking about "We want to experience the content". The content requires a group. It's made for that. Why is that so hard to understand?
I agree you should be able to solo - not everyone has the ability to organize a really good group of people - not everyone has the same schedule - everyone has a different objective so on and so forth if someone wants to solo it should be accesible to them and not voided to the generic comment you shouldn't play MMOs - if someone wants to do it let them do it - I do both but if there was an option to do something solo I would so i can do it on my own paste and not worry that im holding someone else back from there free time to play the game
so if i can get the "epic sword of slaying immortals" solo, why on earth would i want to do it in a group and have to "share" the loot?
ok, my understanding was that the op wanted the same end game and rewards for the single player as well as the group play. If i read it wrong then i apologize.
Oh no, your right on that part, it does look like the OP also wants the same gear solo that groups get. I'm agreeing with everyone here on that he is wrong to think he should get that. But, he also says he should be able to 'encounter' the villian as a 'hero' on his own if he wants to. To experience the game in its entirety on the content side as well. This part I agree with him on, as I think everyone should be able to experience the game as a whole. The difficulty would be lower, and loot definately not up to par as that earned by the team/raid. It does take a lot of effort to coordinate a good raid to victory, and that can never be justifiably rewarded equally to a solo player, no matter how godly they may be. 20 people playing thier characters flawlessly together is just not the same as one person doing so.
i agree, thats why finding a good group of people/guild is essential for any good gaming experience. I been with my guild since swg beta, we play everything together. Right now we are all digging EVE, but at the same time we are all casual and very close. We dont care if we are awesome or a powerhouse. long as we have fun thats all that matters. So as alway, if you find a good group (in my case casual group) why cant you experience everything? I never played wow....but our little rag tag bunch has seen end game in many a game, even if we didnt finish it :P
So let me see if I got this right. Blizzard has already figure dout how to make a dungeon function for a team of 5 on normal mode with appropriate drop levels. The same dungeon function differently for a team of raid of 10 and a raid of 20/25/40 with appropriate drops. The same dungeon again with a team of 5 on hardmode with again appropriate loot to the difficulty. But for some reason they can't figure out how ot make the same dungeon for 1?
Turbine has Skirmishes, similar to dungeon type content (in thier own little way), that can be set up for 1 person, 3 people, 5 people, or 10 people. Scalable mobs dificulty based on the group size, and scalable loot based off the group size. Dungeons that can be entered at levels 20-65, mob levels change depending on the level of the player going in, loot changes to go along with that. So why cann't Blizzard handle this agian? Turbine devs are smarter than WoW devs? Turbine devs get payed more? Turbine has a bigger budget than Blizzard?
The 'no game will cater to every single person' argument is really not a good one. Some games can and do scale thier content already. WoW already does just not to EVERYONE. The only reason I can see they dont is they dont want to. Converting a dungeon they already have set to 5 man, 10 man, 20/25/40 man, hardcore and making one more that is for 1 person shouldnt be a difficult feat on thier part.
Why is that so hard for you to understand? The content is made for a group. It's made for a tank dps and healer. Don't be naive and pretend like it's the same thing to scale something from a group event to an even bigger group event is the same is scaling something for each individual class/role, you're only fooling yourself.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that making that available to each squishy dps, and no dps healer/tank will simply not be cost effective. Could it be possible? Yes, but could you imagine the amount of tweaking for each instance and all of it's encounters to accomodate each role/class? Just for the off chance that some queen doesn't want to take part in the way it's meant to be played?
You were talking about "We want to experience the content". The content requires a group. It's made for that. Why is that so hard to understand?
Its not hard to understand your point of view at all, I just feel its flawed. You make the argument that it would be to labor intensive, to difficult, too costly. Yet there are gaming companies out there with less profits, less developers/programmers, less funding, less experience who already do this. You think these encounters HAVE to be done in a group, they dont. Before Cataclysm I would solo pretty much every vanilla and BC 5 man by myself and farm drops. I didnt need a healer, no DPS, no tank combo. All I needed is the content scaled back in dificulty so I could survive it (me being higher level than them). All they need to do is lower the mob difficulty, remove a few of the 'required' tricks to defeat them, and lower the loot tables down. Sure not every cloth caster is going to be able to take down everything solo, but some may. Right now none can, because they aren't even given a chance to try it.
The only reason the content is 'made for' groups is because they have chosen to make it that way. All they have to do to change that is to 'chose' to change that. Then your entire argument falls apart.
I dont understand why endgame in MMO's is not soloable.
I enjoy talking to other people and the occasional group but it shouldnt be necessary to beat the endgame bosses.
My preferred playstyle is that of a solo hero. I think MMO developers need to value my playstyle as much as anyone else. We all pay the same subscription fees so we should all have access to the same content and have the same ability to beat that content and get all the rewards.
Raiding with other people at endgame is frustrating because most people are not very skilled and they screw things up and cause wipes. It also takes way to long to gear up because you have to split loot with lots of other people when you could have just kept it for yourself. Why should I have to share with anyoen if i do not want to? As a solo player I am very against this. Its basically socialism in gaming and thats wrong.
When i play MMO's i see myself as the hero who sets out on a great adventure who slowly gets more powerful until he defeats the greatest evil in the world. I should be able to go 1 on 1 with just my hero and tyhe great villain bosses and defeat them. Thats heroic. Its why we all play MMO's to be the hero! Its not very heroic for 10+ people to gang up on 1 enemy. Thats thug tactics IMO and its not heroic.
I am tired of MMO developers which ignore solo playstyles at endgame and it needs to change. There is no Group in MMORPG.
I can agree that there should be a solo end game alternative. But not the same as group content. Group content such as raids should stay group only. It is part of a MMO experience, even if you don't like it or will never take part yourself.
I can see solo instances along side the rest of the content. A way for the many solo players that sub to MMO's to have a way to cotinue to progress. There should not be a way to obtain the same gear as raids, but an upgrade in gear is fine. They can make it like the midway games at the fair. Everytime you complete the instance, you get a cheap reward. After you collect 10, you turn it in for a less cheap reward. So 3 months down the line, you will have a nice set of gear.
No matter how you want to play, you shouldn't want to exclude players and their play style. But you shouldn't take something away either. So the best solution is to add a solo addition to the current end game structure in themepark games. An option to play if you want. More options at end game can only make a game better IMO.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
I dont understand why endgame in MMO's is not soloable.
I enjoy talking to other people and the occasional group but it shouldnt be necessary to beat the endgame bosses.
My preferred playstyle is that of a solo hero. I think MMO developers need to value my playstyle as much as anyone else. We all pay the same subscription fees so we should all have access to the same content and have the same ability to beat that content and get all the rewards.
Raiding with other people at endgame is frustrating because most people are not very skilled and they screw things up and cause wipes. It also takes way to long to gear up because you have to split loot with lots of other people when you could have just kept it for yourself. Why should I have to share with anyoen if i do not want to? As a solo player I am very against this. Its basically socialism in gaming and thats wrong.
When i play MMO's i see myself as the hero who sets out on a great adventure who slowly gets more powerful until he defeats the greatest evil in the world. I should be able to go 1 on 1 with just my hero and tyhe great villain bosses and defeat them. Thats heroic. Its why we all play MMO's to be the hero! Its not very heroic for 10+ people to gang up on 1 enemy. Thats thug tactics IMO and its not heroic.
I am tired of MMO developers which ignore solo playstyles at endgame and it needs to change. There is no Group in MMORPG.
I can agree that there should be a solo end game alternative. But not the same as group content. Group content such as raids should stay group only. It is part of a MMO experience, even if you don't like it or will never take part yourself.
I can see solo instances along side the rest of the content. A way for the many solo players that sub to MMO's to have a way to cotinue to progress. There should not be a way to obtain the same gear as raids, but an upgrade in gear is fine. They can make it like the midway games at the fair. Everytime you complete the instance, you get a cheap reward. After you collect 10, you turn it in for a less cheap reward. So 3 months down the line, you will have a nice set of gear.
No matter how you want to play, you shouldn't want to exclude players and their play style. But you shouldn't take something away either. So the best solution is to add a solo addition to the current end game structure in themepark games. An option to play if you want. More options at end game can only make a game better IMO.
to the red text i ask
(not wanting to troll just to make a point)
why not?
i would not change the rules of soccer because one person wants to use his hands to score a goal, i simply tell him to go play football(american) or rugby where he is allowed to use his hands.
same thing for a video game, why would you change a multiplayer game because someone wants to play solo? simply guide him to play a solo game such as oblivion...
edit: though i will agree that in linear storyline themepark MMOGs should allow everyone to see the story to the end how he sees fit, but retrograde the reward acordingly, if he does it solo (easier end boss easier to get to , basically easy mode), give him a pat on the back and a few gold coins. if done in a 5 man raid, give yourself a clap and 20 gold coins. if done in a 50 man raid now we get the immortal sword of the godslayers and one has to figure out who gets it
I agree you should be able to solo - not everyone has the ability to organize a really good group of people - not everyone has the same schedule - everyone has a different objective so on and so forth if someone wants to solo it should be accesible to them and not voided to the generic comment you shouldn't play MMOs - if someone wants to do it let them do it - I do both but if there was an option to do something solo I would so i can do it on my own paste and not worry that im holding someone else back from there free time to play the game
well if you dont have time, or cant do A B or C then you really should not play MMOGs!!
a 600lbs man does not sign up for an advanced spinning class and then goes at his own pace just because hes fat! Hell! the instructor will go and tell him out right, you should not sign up for this advanced spinning class, maybe you should start somewhere you fit better, like a walking group. then as he looses weight he goes on to activities that best suit his situation!
so yeah if you dont have the same schedule, or another objective or time, then dont play games that REQUIRES a SCHEDULE OBJECTIVE AND TIME!
No matter how you want to play, you shouldn't want to exclude players and their play style. But you shouldn't take something away either. So the best solution is to add a solo addition to the current end game structure in themepark games. An option to play if you want. More options at end game can only make a game better IMO.
to the red text i ask
(not wanting to troll just to make a point)
why not?
i would not change the rules of soccer because one person wants to use his hands to score a goal, i simply tell him to go play football(american) or rugby where he is allowed to use his hands.
same thing for a video game, why would you change a multiplayer game because someone wants to play solo? simply guide him to play a solo game such as oblivion...
edit: though i will agree that in linear storyline themepark MMOGs should allow everyone to see the story to the end how he sees fit, but retrograde the reward acordingly, if he does it solo (easier end boss easier to get to , basically easy mode), give him a pat on the back and a few gold coins. if done in a 5 man raid, give yourself a clap and 20 gold coins. if done in a 50 man raid now we get the immortal sword of the godslayers and one has to figure out who gets it
But in this case the soccer player is allow to play for all the matches but not the finale. The problem is that there is solocontent in the games but no endgame and that is what isn't fair.
If they take away all solocontent it is fair but it is unfair to have the rest of the game for them but not allowing them to do smack after they maxed their character out.
Either you allow solo playing or you don't, excluding a playstyle from the endgame but encouraging it in the rest of the game is both stupid and unfair.
So let me see if I got this right. Blizzard has already figure dout how to make a dungeon function for a team of 5 on normal mode with appropriate drop levels. The same dungeon function differently for a team of raid of 10 and a raid of 20/25/40 with appropriate drops. The same dungeon again with a team of 5 on hardmode with again appropriate loot to the difficulty. But for some reason they can't figure out how ot make the same dungeon for 1?
Turbine has Skirmishes, similar to dungeon type content (in thier own little way), that can be set up for 1 person, 3 people, 5 people, or 10 people. Scalable mobs dificulty based on the group size, and scalable loot based off the group size. Dungeons that can be entered at levels 20-65, mob levels change depending on the level of the player going in, loot changes to go along with that. So why cann't Blizzard handle this agian? Turbine devs are smarter than WoW devs? Turbine devs get payed more? Turbine has a bigger budget than Blizzard?
The 'no game will cater to every single person' argument is really not a good one. Some games can and do scale thier content already. WoW already does just not to EVERYONE. The only reason I can see they dont is they dont want to. Converting a dungeon they already have set to 5 man, 10 man, 20/25/40 man, hardcore and making one more that is for 1 person shouldnt be a difficult feat on thier part.
Why is that so hard for you to understand? The content is made for a group. It's made for a tank dps and healer. Don't be naive and pretend like it's the same thing to scale something from a group event to an even bigger group event is the same is scaling something for each individual class/role, you're only fooling yourself.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that making that available to each squishy dps, and no dps healer/tank will simply not be cost effective. Could it be possible? Yes, but could you imagine the amount of tweaking for each instance and all of it's encounters to accomodate each role/class? Just for the off chance that some queen doesn't want to take part in the way it's meant to be played?
You were talking about "We want to experience the content". The content requires a group. It's made for that. Why is that so hard to understand?
Its not hard to understand your point of view at all, I just feel its flawed. You make the argument that it would be to labor intensive, to difficult, too costly. Yet there are gaming companies out there with less profits, less developers/programmers, less funding, less experience who already do this. You think these encounters HAVE to be done in a group, they dont. Before Cataclysm I would solo pretty much every vanilla and BC 5 man by myself and farm drops. I didnt need a healer, no DPS, no tank combo. All I needed is the content scaled back in dificulty so I could survive it (me being higher level than them). All they need to do is lower the mob difficulty, remove a few of the 'required' tricks to defeat them, and lower the loot tables down. Sure not every cloth caster is going to be able to take down everything solo, but some may. Right now none can, because they aren't even given a chance to try it.
The only reason the content is 'made for' groups is because they have chosen to make it that way. All they have to do to change that is to 'chose' to change that. Then your entire argument falls apart.
These so called less funded games also don't have the same degree of scripting that WoW has. Your whole argument is quite frankly silly. I'm not denying that the devs chose to make the content for groups. That's exactly what I've been saying. You're the one that can't seem to grasp why they have chosen this.
Half of that paragraph is you talking about what YOU want to do. I won't even begin to scrape the surface to the amount of whining you would do if YOUR class was one of the classes that couldn't solo the content.
No matter how you want to play, you shouldn't want to exclude players and their play style. But you shouldn't take something away either. So the best solution is to add a solo addition to the current end game structure in themepark games. An option to play if you want. More options at end game can only make a game better IMO.
to the red text i ask
(not wanting to troll just to make a point)
why not?
i would not change the rules of soccer because one person wants to use his hands to score a goal, i simply tell him to go play football(american) or rugby where he is allowed to use his hands.
same thing for a video game, why would you change a multiplayer game because someone wants to play solo? simply guide him to play a solo game such as oblivion...
edit: though i will agree that in linear storyline themepark MMOGs should allow everyone to see the story to the end how he sees fit, but retrograde the reward acordingly, if he does it solo (easier end boss easier to get to , basically easy mode), give him a pat on the back and a few gold coins. if done in a 5 man raid, give yourself a clap and 20 gold coins. if done in a 50 man raid now we get the immortal sword of the godslayers and one has to figure out who gets it
But in this case the soccer player is allow to play for all the matches but not the finale. The problem is that there is solocontent in the games but no endgame and that is what isn't fair.
If they take away all solocontent it is fair but it is unfair to have the rest of the game for them but not allowing them to do smack after they maxed their character out.
Either you allow solo playing or you don't, excluding a playstyle from the endgame but encouraging it in the rest of the game is both stupid and unfair.
Who is to say it shouldn't be the other way around? Actually it is, and many people post here complaining about how they have to solo through a game just to get to the group content. It works both ways chief.
Define end game? You mean raids and group content? My ex gf used to have a blast doing solo quests and such for achievements. She loved fishing and preparing flasks/food buffs to sell and for the raids. She liked hunting down those little vanity pets and titles.
So don't say there's no solo endgame. You can even BG solo and do just fine.
Comments
Well there’s tons of solo end game content, this is about being able to solo group and raid content.
Yeah, some start out with great intentions but grow ever more bitter as time goes on. That was my case, the more I realized the type of people I had to deal with every day, the worse I got until I finally realized I had become something I didnt' like. Thats when I gave up raiding all together. I still play WoW, but now I play solo and find the game far more enjoyable to be honest. A game should never engulf you to the point of taking away what you stand for.
Yeah I bet you wish i woulda tried to join your guild in WoW.. As much as your sensative ass would like a pedestal to play on and people you know in RL to play with, it just isnt going to happen.. Now we can go as far as you want to take this.. I never said that all I care about is loot.. But I do think that for you to think that everything should be "tailor made for you and your wife" is rediculous.. Don't come to a party and demand that you have a room setup for you and your wife to chill in.. You are not that special.. get over it..
But yeah, while we are on the topic.. yeah.. i like gear.. i see it as a form of progression.. When you stop leveling, you go for the absolute BEST gear available.. That IS part of the endgame.. A WoW "guild leader" as prestigious as you are should have known this, as WoW is one of those games where it is most prominent.. All that grinding for gear at the end of the leveling treadmill.. Oh my bad, i forgot, you dont raid or anything because you hate everyone so you didn't get any right?
Go ahead.. kick me from your guild.. And while your at it.. lets have a toast for the douchebags..
Ask yourself this, if you are someone who has played WoW since BETA and never liked to team with anyone, would you know what it looks like inside Nax? Does it matter if it doesn't have the raid bosses in it, if all you want to do is go in there and play? Maybe your willing to spend your entire weekend, 16 hours each day, just doing that one place by yourself. Maybe you dont care if you get anything but green drops. Maybe all you want to do is say you were there, and maybe just to yourself. How does that hurt anyone at all? Thats what I'm talking about when I say endgame content should be soloable. Not that I should be able to solo a raid boss by myself as he is presented to a raid. The dungeon itself is the content, not that one boss or what he drops. There are probably 30-35% of the 13 million subscribers in WoW that have never set foot in half the high end dungeons, not even once. Its an experience I think they should be allowed to have, even at a lower context with a lower reward. Those dungeons are what makes WoW, WoW.
EDIT: and for that other guy, no gear is not what WoW is all about. Grinding that high end gear to get better gear is not what end game is there for. Thats what the shallow people think its there for, thats where the gear score people came from. The game itself is about the experience of playing the game, being able to say you were there, that you did it. Not about whether or not you have the top teir gear within a week of it coming out. People who think its all about the gear have no loyalty to anyone but themselves. Thats why I said you would be used and discarded if in my guild. Because I know people who have no loyalty take what they want until they think they no longer need you then jump to the next raiding guild to use them for thier next fix. And the best thing for a guild overall is building loyalty and trust among its members. Getting rid of the users and takers as fast as you find out what they are can only help keep that loyalty and trust amongst those that are not. A guild full of people who trust each other, know how they play, why they play, and like to work together can accomplish far more than any guild built on the EPICness of thier gear.
then dont play the games which have end game group content? there are plenty of different "end games" out there in mmos. just need to find one which fits your play style. But until you start your own mmo company and make an mmo that you want, you have to remember these games are a business, and modeled after what the developer wants. No game will cater to every single person out there.
If you would have read all the posts then you would have noticed me say that I it would be cool to make group instances and raids soloable or completed with small groups as long as the loot reflected the difficulty and the scripting was different for a raid.
I also said that those who find it easy to make friends and find likeminded individuals also feel ripped off when their content is getting dumb downed for the me me me easy crowd which is the route devs seem to take and would most likley take instead of writing the code needed to make it scalable
None of this would be a problem if they'd make games with group-centered endgames be group-centered throughout the entirety of the game. It's the bait & switch that pisses people off.
Rift has a solo-potential endgame. You do NOT need to join a raid to do the rifts -- so if you are a solo player you can find an active rift that is being fought and either fight around the periphery of it or actively fight the monsters that other people are doing and help them all without joining a group. At the same time you get your rewards just fine -- it is just not determined so much by the other people. Of course if the monster turns on you, you do not have the healing support that way and you very well may die -- but such is the life of the devout soloist. I know -- I live it sometimes.
But at least it has an option unlike a lot of other games. EQ2 is kind of notorious that way by example -- you hit a brick wall at the endgame as a soloist. In the old old games there was often solo content somewhere and crafting was a very viable solo endgame as well -- it isnt so much with the recent games. Of course there was also Asherons call where solo was fine start to end.
i find that most games have suitable group content over all levels, but most choose to pass it by to reach end game faster.
There shouldn't be an endgame, thereby removing the need to rush through things (Amongst other).
But I guess that's a genre thing.
So let me see if I got this right. Blizzard has already figure dout how to make a dungeon function for a team of 5 on normal mode with appropriate drop levels. The same dungeon function differently for a team of raid of 10 and a raid of 20/25/40 with appropriate drops. The same dungeon again with a team of 5 on hardmode with again appropriate loot to the difficulty. But for some reason they can't figure out how ot make the same dungeon for 1?
Turbine has Skirmishes, similar to dungeon type content (in thier own little way), that can be set up for 1 person, 3 people, 5 people, or 10 people. Scalable mobs dificulty based on the group size, and scalable loot based off the group size. Dungeons that can be entered at levels 20-65, mob levels change depending on the level of the player going in, loot changes to go along with that. So why cann't Blizzard handle this agian? Turbine devs are smarter than WoW devs? Turbine devs get payed more? Turbine has a bigger budget than Blizzard?
The 'no game will cater to every single person' argument is really not a good one. Some games can and do scale thier content already. WoW already does just not to EVERYONE. The only reason I can see they dont is they dont want to. Converting a dungeon they already have set to 5 man, 10 man, 20/25/40 man, hardcore and making one more that is for 1 person shouldnt be a difficult feat on thier part.
ok, my understanding was that the op wanted the same end game and rewards for the single player as well as the group play. If i read it wrong then i apologize.
I agree you should be able to solo - not everyone has the ability to organize a really good group of people - not everyone has the same schedule - everyone has a different objective so on and so forth if someone wants to solo it should be accesible to them and not voided to the generic comment you shouldn't play MMOs - if someone wants to do it let them do it - I do both but if there was an option to do something solo I would so i can do it on my own paste and not worry that im holding someone else back from there free time to play the game
Oh no, your right on that part, it does look like the OP also wants the same gear solo that groups get. I'm agreeing with everyone here on that he is wrong to think he should get that. But, he also says he should be able to 'encounter' the villian as a 'hero' on his own if he wants to. To experience the game in its entirety on the content side as well. This part I agree with him on, as I think everyone should be able to experience the game as a whole. The difficulty would be lower, and loot definately not up to par as that earned by the team/raid. It does take a lot of effort to coordinate a good raid to victory, and that can never be justifiably rewarded equally to a solo player, no matter how godly they may be. 20 people playing thier characters flawlessly together is just not the same as one person doing so.
Why is that so hard for you to understand? The content is made for a group. It's made for a tank dps and healer. Don't be naive and pretend like it's the same thing to scale something from a group event to an even bigger group event is the same is scaling something for each individual class/role, you're only fooling yourself.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that making that available to each squishy dps, and no dps healer/tank will simply not be cost effective. Could it be possible? Yes, but could you imagine the amount of tweaking for each instance and all of it's encounters to accomodate each role/class? Just for the off chance that some queen doesn't want to take part in the way it's meant to be played?
You were talking about "We want to experience the content". The content requires a group. It's made for that. Why is that so hard to understand?
so if i can get the "epic sword of slaying immortals" solo, why on earth would i want to do it in a group and have to "share" the loot?
edit: why would anyone for that matter?
i agree, thats why finding a good group of people/guild is essential for any good gaming experience. I been with my guild since swg beta, we play everything together. Right now we are all digging EVE, but at the same time we are all casual and very close. We dont care if we are awesome or a powerhouse. long as we have fun thats all that matters. So as alway, if you find a good group (in my case casual group) why cant you experience everything? I never played wow....but our little rag tag bunch has seen end game in many a game, even if we didnt finish it :P
Its not hard to understand your point of view at all, I just feel its flawed. You make the argument that it would be to labor intensive, to difficult, too costly. Yet there are gaming companies out there with less profits, less developers/programmers, less funding, less experience who already do this. You think these encounters HAVE to be done in a group, they dont. Before Cataclysm I would solo pretty much every vanilla and BC 5 man by myself and farm drops. I didnt need a healer, no DPS, no tank combo. All I needed is the content scaled back in dificulty so I could survive it (me being higher level than them). All they need to do is lower the mob difficulty, remove a few of the 'required' tricks to defeat them, and lower the loot tables down. Sure not every cloth caster is going to be able to take down everything solo, but some may. Right now none can, because they aren't even given a chance to try it.
The only reason the content is 'made for' groups is because they have chosen to make it that way. All they have to do to change that is to 'chose' to change that. Then your entire argument falls apart.
I can agree that there should be a solo end game alternative. But not the same as group content. Group content such as raids should stay group only. It is part of a MMO experience, even if you don't like it or will never take part yourself.
I can see solo instances along side the rest of the content. A way for the many solo players that sub to MMO's to have a way to cotinue to progress. There should not be a way to obtain the same gear as raids, but an upgrade in gear is fine. They can make it like the midway games at the fair. Everytime you complete the instance, you get a cheap reward. After you collect 10, you turn it in for a less cheap reward. So 3 months down the line, you will have a nice set of gear.
No matter how you want to play, you shouldn't want to exclude players and their play style. But you shouldn't take something away either. So the best solution is to add a solo addition to the current end game structure in themepark games. An option to play if you want. More options at end game can only make a game better IMO.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Sure, you should be able to do end game things, and be rewarded with solo gear/items.
Those that do dungeons/heroics/raids should get much better gear/items.
to the red text i ask
(not wanting to troll just to make a point)
why not?
i would not change the rules of soccer because one person wants to use his hands to score a goal, i simply tell him to go play football(american) or rugby where he is allowed to use his hands.
same thing for a video game, why would you change a multiplayer game because someone wants to play solo? simply guide him to play a solo game such as oblivion...
edit: though i will agree that in linear storyline themepark MMOGs should allow everyone to see the story to the end how he sees fit, but retrograde the reward acordingly, if he does it solo (easier end boss easier to get to , basically easy mode), give him a pat on the back and a few gold coins. if done in a 5 man raid, give yourself a clap and 20 gold coins. if done in a 50 man raid now we get the immortal sword of the godslayers and one has to figure out who gets it
well if you dont have time, or cant do A B or C then you really should not play MMOGs!!
a 600lbs man does not sign up for an advanced spinning class and then goes at his own pace just because hes fat! Hell! the instructor will go and tell him out right, you should not sign up for this advanced spinning class, maybe you should start somewhere you fit better, like a walking group. then as he looses weight he goes on to activities that best suit his situation!
so yeah if you dont have the same schedule, or another objective or time, then dont play games that REQUIRES a SCHEDULE OBJECTIVE AND TIME!
But in this case the soccer player is allow to play for all the matches but not the finale. The problem is that there is solocontent in the games but no endgame and that is what isn't fair.
If they take away all solocontent it is fair but it is unfair to have the rest of the game for them but not allowing them to do smack after they maxed their character out.
Either you allow solo playing or you don't, excluding a playstyle from the endgame but encouraging it in the rest of the game is both stupid and unfair.
These so called less funded games also don't have the same degree of scripting that WoW has. Your whole argument is quite frankly silly. I'm not denying that the devs chose to make the content for groups. That's exactly what I've been saying. You're the one that can't seem to grasp why they have chosen this.
Half of that paragraph is you talking about what YOU want to do. I won't even begin to scrape the surface to the amount of whining you would do if YOUR class was one of the classes that couldn't solo the content.
Who is to say it shouldn't be the other way around? Actually it is, and many people post here complaining about how they have to solo through a game just to get to the group content. It works both ways chief.
Define end game? You mean raids and group content? My ex gf used to have a blast doing solo quests and such for achievements. She loved fishing and preparing flasks/food buffs to sell and for the raids. She liked hunting down those little vanity pets and titles.
So don't say there's no solo endgame. You can even BG solo and do just fine.