DC Universe Online: Does It Live Up to the IP

Drew

This weekend, Drew Wood has taken a look at how DC Universe Online incorporates the IP, and fans thereof, into the locales of Metropolis, Gotham City and beyond.

When Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel created Superman back in 1932, it would be hard to believe that these two gentlemen would have had any idea where the Man of Steel would be going throughout his now storied presence in comics. In 1939, Bob Kane and Bill Finger probably had no idea as to the depth to which future writers and artists would take their own creation, Batman. William Moulton Marston and Harry G. Peter's feminine icon, Wonder Woman, made strides for female characters when she came on the scene in 1941, but she has come so far even since. If these six men had been told, when they sat to create their icons, the impact that these three characters would have not only for pop culture, but on an individual level with hundreds of thousands of people, they would have thrown their drinks in your face and laughed until the war was over.

Read more here.

UnsungToo

How does that redefining heroism thing work in DCUO?

michaelmnn

^ I think its simply to explain the ultimate reason for the game, Not so much something to be implemented inside the game persay

dnarris

It's too hard to really exemplify an IP that is pretty much larger than life.

There's so many over the top, incredibly powerful characters in an immense universe.

I think that it's impossible to really capture the essence of the DC Universe in a game like this, because it's not easily translated into a playable and balanced form.

The game's great and the cities (Gotham and Metropolis) are visually stunning, but people will be disappointed with the translation of grandiose characters such as Superman.

It comes down to whether or not you're willing to compromise with your expectations and what the DC Universe offers in the comics and what is playable and balanced in a MMO.

UnsungToo

Yeah I reckon a big ole new mmo world would redefine what we already can experience with DC characters.

XenOshade

An example of what the author is talking about can be found in the quests. You start out given tasks as a possibility and are spoken to as though you might not be able to handle things. As the game progresses these iconic NPCs start talking to you with more and more familiarity and renowned. The progression PVE wise in this game really does give you that rise to iconic hero feeling as you progress.

UnsungToo

Yeah, that's pretty cool, I like it when games do that  

XenOshade

And as far as the DC universe being to big and powerful to balance into a game..... You are correct!, but this happens in many games (wow is an excellent example as 25 people slay the old god of DEATH and the great lich king himself [granted with some help] remember the the Titan Sargoras was no longer as powerful as his creation the lich king). The question you pose is two sided..... the other side of this could be are you going to let any changes in representation stray you from trying to enjoy this game? I myself am still undecided.

Yamota

"Head to Madame Xanadu's Magic Shop and save Zatanna, because, really, who doesn't want to save Zatanna?"

And when 100s of heroes, in the same "world" save Zatanna, are they all being heroic?

This game may capture the lore of DC universe but it can never capture the immersion of it where you have houndreds of heroes performing the exact same deed.

Massive Single Player Online is what they should rename the genre for games like this.

XenOshade

Originally posted by Yamota

"Head to Madame Xanadu's Magic Shop and save Zatanna, because, really, who doesn't want to save Zatanna?"

And when 100s of heroes, in the same "world" save Zatanna, are they all being heroic?

This game may capture the lore of DC universe but it can never capture the immersion of it where you have houndreds of heroes performing the exact same deed.

Massive Single Player Online is what they should rename the genre for games like this.

Every MMO to date including wow and rifts has used this to some extent., during quests and instances this type of gameplay has not been completely broken.... Ever.

 

On that note I do like how GW2 is attempting to start the divergence from  this type of gameplay.

Yamota

Originally posted by XenOshade

Originally posted by Yamota

"Head to Madame Xanadu's Magic Shop and save Zatanna, because, really, who doesn't want to save Zatanna?"

And when 100s of heroes, in the same "world" save Zatanna, are they all being heroic?

This game may capture the lore of DC universe but it can never capture the immersion of it where you have houndreds of heroes performing the exact same deed.

Massive Single Player Online is what they should rename the genre for games like this.

Every MMO to date including wow and rifts has used this to some extent., during quests and instances this type of gameplay has not been completely broken.... Ever.

 

On that note I do like how GW2 is attempting to start the divergence from  this type of gameplay.

I am not commenting on what other games does or that this game play is broken. What I am trying to point out is that it is very hard to get immersed or feel that you are part of a bigger "whole" where you see a million, identical pararell quests being done. None which has any effect on the "whole" what so ever.

MMORPGs, like this, are in fact just single player games running on a central server.

nalamon

Originally posted by Yamota

"Head to Madame Xanadu's Magic Shop and save Zatanna, because, really, who doesn't want to save Zatanna?"

And when 100s of heroes, in the same "world" save Zatanna, are they all being heroic?

This game may capture the lore of DC universe but it can never capture the immersion of it where you have houndreds of heroes performing the exact same deed.

Massive Single Player Online is what they should rename the genre for games like this.

 Yeah I don't like this argument at all. every single mmo ever has done the same thing.. I mean I've raided a ton in my life but the same end boss, same story all of it stays the same.

knyghttearer

basically, they only way to avoid the "parrellel questing" distraction would be a game where u and ur party spend the entire game instanced away from all other players... or u could always just buy a console and a multi-player game

midmagic

Originally posted by knyghttearer

basically, they only way to avoid the "parrellel questing" distraction would be a game where u and ur party spend the entire game instanced away from all other players... or u could always just buy a console and a multi-player game

So, in your mind, a quest structured game is the only possible format for an MMO?

Yamota

Originally posted by knyghttearer

basically, they only way to avoid the "parrellel questing" distraction would be a game where u and ur party spend the entire game instanced away from all other players... or u could always just buy a console and a multi-player game

Or they could make quests affect the world. Like killing XX of YY mob would actually matter in the bigger picture. Or you could have legendary monsters that were indeed legendary and if you would, against all odds kill it, then you would become legendary. Like Gandalf killing the Balrog of Moria and becoming Gandalf the White or Superman, getting rid of doomsday and getting killed in the process.

But then ofcourse people would have to accept that not everyone can be the number 1, which I think is what most people have a problem with. But those people, I would argue, dont "get" what MMORPGs should be about.

A persistant world, not one where there are thousands of pararell quests and where everyone is the hero.

And what has this got to do with this thread? Well in DC there is, with some exceptions, only one Batman and one Superman and they commit unique feats. DC Universe should reflect that, but instead they take the easy road out and produce yet another themepark, linear, instanced game where the world is static and unchangeable and everyone is the hero (by finishing identical feats).

Amaranthar

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by knyghttearer

basically, they only way to avoid the "parrellel questing" distraction would be a game where u and ur party spend the entire game instanced away from all other players... or u could always just buy a console and a multi-player game

Or they could make quests affect the world. Like killing XX of YY mob would actually matter in the bigger picture. Or you could have legendary monsters that were indeed legendary and if you would, against all odds kill it, then you would become legendary. Like Gandalf killing the Balrog of Moria and becoming Gandalf the White or Superman, getting rid of doomsday and getting killed in the process.

But then ofcourse people would have to accept that not everyone can be the number 1, which I think is what most people have a problem with. But those people, I would argue, dont "get" what MMORPGs should be about.

A persistant world, not one where there are thousands of pararell quests and where everyone is the hero.

It would be a change if the Boss's were in the background for the most part, sending their lackies out to do the dirty work. Until players figure out how to get to said Boss. In the meantime, give that Boss escape mechanisms and let players actually try to get him before he escapes.

By the way, UO didn't have quests, and it was a lot more fun than this stuff. Except for the PKing that went on.

youngkg

Originally posted by midmagic

Originally posted by knyghttearer

basically, they only way to avoid the "parrellel questing" distraction would be a game where u and ur party spend the entire game instanced away from all other players... or u could always just buy a console and a multi-player game

So, in your mind, a quest structured game is the only possible format for an MMO?

I dont think well see a different successful format this gen or even the gen after this one seeing as how  the industry is leaning alot more toward "Action MMO's" for most "next gen" titles...

 

But as far as DCUO goes the open world Hero vs Villain pvp server should add to the immersion...Sony could and should have quarterly updates that take us deeper into the DC lore like when superman died for example, And 7? Supermen replacements started poping up everywhere with there own story/agenda etc, And would ultimately lead to an Instanced event where a handfull of villains and heroes would have to fight there way to a battle between superman and cyborg superman and or Doomsday...Or hell find a way to make it a 1 time event that the server could participate in till theres an outcome.

 

But as far as immersion goes this game suffers the same limits as all current gen titles and most likely next gen also...Or am i missing something?

XenOshade

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by XenOshade

Originally posted by Yamota

"Head to Madame Xanadu's Magic Shop and save Zatanna, because, really, who doesn't want to save Zatanna?"

And when 100s of heroes, in the same "world" save Zatanna, are they all being heroic?

This game may capture the lore of DC universe but it can never capture the immersion of it where you have houndreds of heroes performing the exact same deed.

Massive Single Player Online is what they should rename the genre for games like this.

Every MMO to date including wow and rifts has used this to some extent., during quests and instances this type of gameplay has not been completely broken.... Ever.

 

On that note I do like how GW2 is attempting to start the divergence from  this type of gameplay.

I am not commenting on what other games does or that this game play is broken. What I am trying to point out is that it is very hard to get immersed or feel that you are part of a bigger "whole" where you see a million, identical pararell quests being done. None which has any effect on the "whole" what so ever.

MMORPGs, like this, are in fact just single player games running on a central server.

What successful MMORPG does not have this element? Seriously you say that you are not comment on any other games out there yet you blame this game for giving mmos a bad name.

HitechLolife

DCU has a real advantage over other IPs. It has a long history of reinterpretation, reimaginging, alternate universes and so on. There is so much rich lore in the game it's incredibly rewarding to a DC reader. This is something I found with LOTRO too, however you had to accept that things aren't the same as the books, as they needed room for the players. DC doesn't have this problem. There's 52 Earths in DC, all with a slightly different history. We're playing on one of those.

The thing that makes it work for me is the voice cast. Kevin Conroy and Mark Hammil have been voicing their characters for 20 years now so when I hear them, I hear Batman and Joker. ( as opposed to for eg: STO, where when I hear Leonard Nimoy narrating, it doesn't quite land as Spock for me.).

severius

I think it all depends on what really makes the DC Universe special to each fan.  Every fan is different, some do not recognize different changes, some give more prevalence to one timeline over another etc etc etc.  DCUo I am sure will make some fans happy, some for a long time, some for just long enough to go wtf?! lol.  As with all games, especially where IPs are concerned, what one fan likes another will hate.

For myself, DCUo was fun, for about 20 minutes.  I saw pretty much everything I wanted to see, and it was more than enough to see that the game is not for me.  Has little to do with the "universe" has everythign to do with the arcade-y gameplay.  The greatest setting in the world means jack squat if the gameplay and story aren't up to par and that is the case here, in my opinion.

maskedweasel

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by knyghttearer

basically, they only way to avoid the "parrellel questing" distraction would be a game where u and ur party spend the entire game instanced away from all other players... or u could always just buy a console and a multi-player game

Or they could make quests affect the world. Like killing XX of YY mob would actually matter in the bigger picture. Or you could have legendary monsters that were indeed legendary and if you would, against all odds kill it, then you would become legendary. Like Gandalf killing the Balrog of Moria and becoming Gandalf the White or Superman, getting rid of doomsday and getting killed in the process.

But then ofcourse people would have to accept that not everyone can be the number 1, which I think is what most people have a problem with. But those people, I would argue, dont "get" what MMORPGs should be about.

A persistant world, not one where there are thousands of pararell quests and where everyone is the hero.

And what has this got to do with this thread? Well in DC there is, with some exceptions, only one Batman and one Superman and they commit unique feats. DC Universe should reflect that, but instead they take the easy road out and produce yet another themepark, linear, instanced game where the world is static and unchangeable and everyone is the hero (by finishing identical feats).

 

I think this is unrealistic in an environment that revolves around big name characters for an IP.   To Review:  DOES IT LIVE UP TO THE IP?  

 

Well,  Batman and Superman have defeated their villains numerous times, yet the IP revolved very much so around defeating these same enemies.   How would it work for ME to defeat the joker, and have him just disappear from the world for a time until he "breaks out of arkham" again.   The missions revolve around a system that dictates a story.  While there are some named heroes and villains in the world that you will defeat,  receive a headline for,  and they respawn some time later,   it wouldn't make sense for big named heroes and villains to be removed from the game for an indefinite amount of time.

 

While that might be good for a few events,  like Doomsday destroying metropolis and a number of heroes and villains have to respond,  and taking him out would ultimately quell the assault for a long time,  killing random big boss A doesn't mesh with the IP.

 

Now where the main non-linear uninstanced gameplay lies is in the open world, with other players.  Fighting other players, repelling assaults on a police precinct or fighting off a mob of players while trying to take down Bizarro is not only challenging but dynamic enough that it changes the way you move through the world.

 

Thats the point of PvP servers,  and DCUO caters to that play very well.  Restricting yourself to one style of MMORPG play may be the MMORPG Purists way of looking at MMOs,  but as a Gamer,  this world IS very immersive for DC, and its also incredibly fun and rewarding,  even the linear parts.

Yamota

Originally posted by XenOshade

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by XenOshade

Originally posted by Yamota

"Head to Madame Xanadu's Magic Shop and save Zatanna, because, really, who doesn't want to save Zatanna?"

And when 100s of heroes, in the same "world" save Zatanna, are they all being heroic?

This game may capture the lore of DC universe but it can never capture the immersion of it where you have houndreds of heroes performing the exact same deed.

Massive Single Player Online is what they should rename the genre for games like this.

Every MMO to date including wow and rifts has used this to some extent., during quests and instances this type of gameplay has not been completely broken.... Ever.

 

On that note I do like how GW2 is attempting to start the divergence from  this type of gameplay.

I am not commenting on what other games does or that this game play is broken. What I am trying to point out is that it is very hard to get immersed or feel that you are part of a bigger "whole" where you see a million, identical pararell quests being done. None which has any effect on the "whole" what so ever.

MMORPGs, like this, are in fact just single player games running on a central server.

What successful MMORPG does not have this element? Seriously you say that you are not comment on any other games out there yet you blame this game for giving mmos a bad name.

No, I am commenting on the article saying that there is immersion and being part of a bigger whole where in fact it is not possible in this game as nothing you do will affect the bigger whole and it is kinda hard to get immersed when houndreds of "heroes" are doing the exact same deeds you are, in the same "world".

Yamota

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Or they could make quests affect the world. Like killing XX of YY mob would actually matter in the bigger picture. Or you could have legendary monsters that were indeed legendary and if you would, against all odds kill it, then you would become legendary. Like Gandalf killing the Balrog of Moria and becoming Gandalf the White or Superman, getting rid of doomsday and getting killed in the process.

But then ofcourse people would have to accept that not everyone can be the number 1, which I think is what most people have a problem with. But those people, I would argue, dont "get" what MMORPGs should be about.

A persistant world, not one where there are thousands of pararell quests and where everyone is the hero.

And what has this got to do with this thread? Well in DC there is, with some exceptions, only one Batman and one Superman and they commit unique feats. DC Universe should reflect that, but instead they take the easy road out and produce yet another themepark, linear, instanced game where the world is static and unchangeable and everyone is the hero (by finishing identical feats).

 

I think this is unrealistic in an environment that revolves around big name characters for an IP.   To Review:  DOES IT LIVE UP TO THE IP?  

 

Well,  Batman and Superman have defeated their villains numerous times, yet the IP revolved very much so around defeating these same enemies.   How would it work for ME to defeat the joker, and have him just disappear from the world for a time until he "breaks out of arkham" again.   The missions revolve around a system that dictates a story.  While there are some named heroes and villains in the world that you will defeat,  receive a headline for,  and they respawn some time later,   it wouldn't make sense for big named heroes and villains to be removed from the game for an indefinite amount of time.

 

While that might be good for a few events,  like Doomsday destroying metropolis and a number of heroes and villains have to respond,  and taking him out would ultimately quell the assault for a long time,  killing random big boss A doesn't mesh with the IP.

 

Now where the main non-linear uninstanced gameplay lies is in the open world, with other players.  Fighting other players, repelling assaults on a police precinct or fighting off a mob of players while trying to take down Bizarro is not only challenging but dynamic enough that it changes the way you move through the world.

 

Thats the point of PvP servers,  and DCUO caters to that play very well.  Restricting yourself to one style of MMORPG play may be the MMORPG Purists way of looking at MMOs,  but as a Gamer,  this world IS very immersive for DC, and its also incredibly fun and rewarding,  even the linear parts.

It is immersive if you play it as a single player game, not as an MMORPG. MMORPGs are by definition not about YOU but rather you and the rest of the thousands of players in the same world. Atleast they used to be.

At Batman etc beating their villains numerous times is not the same as Hero X, Y, Z perform the EXACT same deed in the same world. You did not in the DC world have several different heroes, defeat the same heroes or rescue the same people, in nearly identical ways.

Superman killed Doomsday, not Batman and Green Lantern and Bloodwynd etc.

Ikeda

Originally posted by Yamota

Superman killed Doomsday, not Batman and Green Lantern and Bloodwynd etc.

Not really.  Just so you know.  Superman didn't kill Doomsday.  Doomsday actually recessitates himself becoming more powerful.  Superman (Cybord) THEN shot him out on an asteroid after the death of Superman.  Doomsday then starts to mess with Darkseid and long-story-short Superman "strands" Doomsday at the VERY end of time since he can't be killed (thus leaving it WELL open for him to come back over and over and over).  Brainiac later travelled to the end of time, grabbed him and brought him back.  Green Lantern stopped him with a BIG BANG in Zero Hour.  Lex Luthor THEN regrew Doomsday by using his skeleton to battle Supes AGAIN.

You see how this works?

 

No matter HOW many times these villains are killed they wiggle back in.  Otherwise most of these villains would just be one off's.  That's no fun.  Same thing with heroes.  How many times have they killed off people and brought them back.  This IP was BUILT for this kinda respawning idea.

Ozmodan

Originally posted by Yamota

"Head to Madame Xanadu's Magic Shop and save Zatanna, because, really, who doesn't want to save Zatanna?"

And when 100s of heroes, in the same "world" save Zatanna, are they all being heroic?

This game may capture the lore of DC universe but it can never capture the immersion of it where you have houndreds of heroes performing the exact same deed.

Massive Single Player Online is what they should rename the genre for games like this.

Yep, but when you get down to it, most of these games with their quest series have the same issue.  I had far more immersion in UO which had no quests.  I will say this though, some of these games actually change the game world after you have done a specific quest.

Yamota

Originally posted by Ikeda

Originally posted by Yamota

Superman killed Doomsday, not Batman and Green Lantern and Bloodwynd etc.

Not really.  Just so you know.  Superman didn't kill Doomsday.  Doomsday actually recessitates himself becoming more powerful.  Superman (Cybord) THEN shot him out on an asteroid after the death of Superman.  Doomsday then starts to mess with Darkseid and long-story-short Superman "strands" Doomsday at the VERY end of time since he can't be killed (thus leaving it WELL open for him to come back over and over and over).  Brainiac later travelled to the end of time, grabbed him and brought him back.  Green Lantern stopped him with a BIG BANG in Zero Hour.  Lex Luthor THEN regrew Doomsday by using his skeleton to battle Supes AGAIN.

You see how this works?

 

No matter HOW many times these villains are killed they wiggle back in.  Otherwise most of these villains would just be one off's.  That's no fun.  Same thing with heroes.  How many times have they killed off people and brought them back.  This IP was BUILT for this kinda respawning idea.

You dont get the point. The point is that during a scenario, Superman (not Batman or hero X) incapacitates (there, you happy?) Doomsday. And this scenario is done ONCE.

The fact that Doomsday is in other scenarios is not relevant. Those are other scenarios, not identical instances of this scenario.