Just wanted to say thanks for writing a truly thought provoking piece. Many times I get caught up in game mechanics and features about new releases. None of them keep me interested for this long.
It would be nice to see games that focus on rp again. Now, there is very little thought set aside for immersion. Its all about ease of access. Still, if games were to turn the corner again, it would still be up to each individual to actually take interest in a grander scope in their gaming.
Rp in an mmo only really works in a sandbox, open world type of setting. But that doesn't mean it's impossible to find.
There are even some groups to be found in WoW, such as the Shadowclan Orcs, who always stay in character, run events,etc..
But it's tougher when you play in a game like WoW or EQ which is basically level based and on rails ( play this area till x lvl, then move on to area b till you're xx level) .
My first game experience was back in Ultima Online on the Catskills server which was known for rp pvp groups like The Shadowclan and others.
I remember back then thinking how cool the games in the next 10 years were going to be, how much more advanced from UO they would get.Sheesh, was I wrong.
As the games have actually devolved becoming simpler, easier to play/level, my tastes have brought me full circle back to pen and paper games ( although nowadays you do a lot of your playing on wet/dry erase battlemaps with minis).I spend more time a week playing and GMing Pathfinder than playing online, though I do have a sub to Fallen Earth.
However online rp in a persistent graphical setting isn't completely dead. You can still fire up Bioware's Neverwinter Nights game and check out some of the excellent player run PWs.It's not massive, as the most players I've ever seen on a server has been around 50- 60 players back when the game was more popular, but still..The graphics are definitely showing their age in that game, but they're not too bad especially if the world is using some of the awesome player made content that's available.
Instead of bleating on about the lack of RP in MMORPGs, which incidentally is not true as there is a world of RP out there in many games ranging from the likes of pvpfests EvE and Darkfall to the carebear worlds of WoW and Aion, go and seek it out and ye shall find.
Should you fail in that quest simply roll a barbarian in AoC and go chop some-one's head off.
I'm currently playing EQ2 at the moment and you can label yourself a role player. So far I've met a handful of people interested (as in also RP tagged) but nothing has panned out yet. Still, its a way to improve the chances of meeting like-minded people.
I heard that there is a strong RP community in LOTRO (server Laurelin?) but I became too attached to my guild on another server for me to take advantage of it.
Generally I'm interested in giving RP a go in every MMO I play, but very rarely have I had the chance. In that sense, your article is spot on.
There's a reason that both companies and players increasingly use the term MMO instead of MMORPG - the RPG part is getting removed from the genre - and that's true for both definitions of RPG: the actual role-playing itself and the RPG-like character progression.
That's just how the industry developed over the last years. FPS and RTS games always had a larger market share than RPGs, thus from a business point-of-view it makes sense to develop MMOs in a way that makes them attractive for players with a RTS or FPS preference.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Hmmm, interesting to say the least. There is still roleplay in some games. Like in EQ2 when Im on my rotunga (rat race) I will be asking for cheese running from kerra race making sqeeking sounds at my fellow rotunga in the guild hall. Same as when I am on my kerra I will chase fellow guild mates around meow at them and pretend to be a bad cat.
However a lot of these newer games there is no role play, they are very shallow.
I would think the RP crowd (which I'm not a part of) would flock to the "sandbox" games where they actually can play a part in the overall story of the server and impact the world. In a game like Darkfall, you can lead an uprising, be mercenaries who tip the scales in battle for the highest bidder, create an evil empire set on taking over the world, etc etc etc. For example, during the launch of the game we had King Manus and his giant Hyperion army swallowing up 1/3 of the very large world, before several other groups banded together to put a stop to them. That is a part of the history of our world that the players themselves created through their actions in game.
I'm not advertising for Darkfall here, I'm sure there are plenty of other games where the same thing is possible. I just can't understand how RPing in a "themepark" game could compare.
Roleplaying is one of the few things that is different in each MMO becasue each MMO has a different story. Questing and PvP are pretty similar across games, I think roleplaying is what makes a game extra unique
Roleplayers are being creative, PvPers are being violent, PvEers are reading, and grinders are saluting an NPC somewhere until their arm falls off.
Rp'ing is really more of a guild thin in most games than a server wide thing. It would really be nothing short of a miracle to have that many people stay in character. I actually prefer to play RP servers: not because of the RP, but because its generally older people that roll there.
I've tried rp'ing, and even LARP'ing, (to my eternal shame), but its always feels just a little too wierd.
I am surprised however, that RP'ing hasn't taken off as mush in other genre's like the super hero niche. COH/COV is tailor made for it during character creation and power choice and even has a notepad to create your own backstory and share with others.
I also as a pen & paper RPGer have also found it difficult to RP in MMOs. As stated above, it was really easy to do in CoH, and I did RP my favorite character. But in other MMOs like WoW, D&D, or even EQ. I just couldn't get the feel of RPing a character.
Perhaps it was the rails that dictated everything I did in Wow, maybe it was the grinding in EQ, Dungeon crawling all the time in D&D didn't really help either. But I think it really comes down to the fact that I could not feel unique in in these games. I looked like everyoe else. In CoH/CoV I felt like I had my own character, instead of feeling like I had a copy of a character that devs designed for me to play.
Ye rpg isn't really great in mmorpg, in fact the rpg in mmorpg is more of a source inspiration than anything else.
The only real valid rp i found in all themmorpg was acted rp. Contrary to talked rp in the pen&paper games. In very few mmorpg you could rp with your character behavior. Would he act like the good guy or like an ass, would he make friends or be solitary, what kind of profession and template he would have... All those kind of behavior are in fact the food for your role playing in mmorpg. So ye its more acted than talked, which is not bad at all in fact, i enjoyed it a lot in UO for exemple, and a lot of people did.
But this never even developed that much, because mmorpg are just designed as computer games most of the time, apart from Ultima online, and NeverWinterNights, none of the mmorpg i played really wanted you to role play anything. None of the mmorpg where designed around the idea to have your charcater being an actor in the world he is living in, as i said the only exceptions for me was UO and NWN, in 10 years of mmorpgs gaming. Thats so low.
Designer don't want you to act in their games, they want you to play, thats quiet different point of view. No wonder why rp is anything else but a source of inspiration to those games, its a shame really, those games could have been so much more interesting, if they just tryed to developed the superb aspect rp turned to be in the first mmorpg that was UO; You can read the old school web pages of that time, rp was mainly acted as i said, with force screenshot and imaginated concept. Did you evr saw that later on, in an other mmorpg? i didn't.
Like many replies here - I echo the nostalgia of a concept that seems at first glance, to have worn out it's welcome in the modern online game age. Roleplaying in the MMORPG setting is possible but I agree that's getting harder and harder to find. I'm an old school tabletop gamer and I moved into the virtual world with UO and then EverQuest over a decade ago. I've tried every popular game out there - some made it, others didn't; but in all of the games, I made an honest effort to roleplay my characters. I still do.
I believe in the notion that "if you roleplay - they will come". When you hide in private channels or keep roleplay to specific groups or homes, no one sees it. No one can then remember 'oh hey! I used to enjoy that!' and join you. If you make an effort to roleplay in public channels or to even go a step further and announce it on a channel "hey, anyone who wants to RP, there's some happening here" - people will start to come out of the woodwork. Will there be non-rpers who try to spoil things? Sometimes - there's always going to be some toolbag who thinks it's funny to ruin someone else's game. You have that in real life too. I use my blacklist /ignore feature without mercy.
When enough people start actively roleplaying together, a community forms. On that note - I will toss in some props for the upcoming game Rift: Planes of Telara. There IS a growing Roleplay community forming - Faeblight is our server of choice. There are even some guilds forming pre-launch who are specific to Roleplay or RP friendly. I haven't found this kind of sense of belonging and anticipation since EverQuest first released. Check out RiftRP.net
~The Lost, the Weary, the Defiant; be welcome among us. We are The Forgotten.~
First to the scientist guy who tried to define roleplaying as acting and then lampooned online roleplaying I'd he/she has some learning to do about how online roleplaying works. Or even tabletop roleplaying. In many ways it's far more about the creative writing/thought process then the "acting". I won't argue that actors aren't roleplayers, they are, but there are dozens of ways one can express oneself as "someone else".
To those who think online Roleplaying is dying, I say, "Stop the pessimism." It's not dying. It's far from dead. There are fervent roleplaying communities in dozens of titles. Roleplayers are, however, a severe minority and always have been. The more popular the game the more obvious this is. Finding the roleplayers can, in many cases, be a challenge. I agree that the communities tend to be reclusive, they don't advertise their presence. Partially because there's an equal sized community of insecure idiots who find roleplayers easy targets for griefing and partly because I think, roleplayers want you to have to find them. Mainly because that means you're actually serious about trying to RP.
Some games make it harder than others. Lack of instances or private housing, inability to form community chat channels, zone size limits, lack of character outfit tools can all take a serious ding out of RP'ing. Setting and familiarity also tend to create challenges. Regardless, the RP'ers are out there, but you need to be prepared to deal with small communities, often casual players with eradic schedules etc. And like all gamers, their community sizes tendt o be large at game launches and wane rapidly as time goes on.
Theres just a lack of rp'ers. RP tend to be to serious at all times and the serious rper's can be the biggest jerks in the game when they think someone isn't following their perceived role of a RPer. I think most people have outgrown the rules that RPers enforce.
Regretfully there will always be haters...RP haters, fanbois haters, haters haters (IMO troll haters are A-OK). I remember a few years back when I was saying 'chars' or 'characters' and so many people questioned me or downright laughed, I started using the terms 'toons' just to avoid the need to explain.
*shrug*
Playing on Faeblight in Rift ATM (and after launch). While I don't feel the need to flower my every sentence with thees and thous, I find myself hoping that the RP servers there are policed for OOC chat and stepped on when it occurs (when used beyond a minimum) If nothing else, it will keep the general chat quiet of the 'HRR HRR HRR YER MOM' stuff.
Sigh
I'm from the days of D&D (yeah prior to the A in front of that) and have very fond memories of those days. The thing that sets it all apart in the roleplay side is the character itself. I knew many guys I played with who were the nicest guys in life but played the most depraved characters imaginable. They were so seperate personalities that the character was its own living being when we sat down to play, the player just was a vessel for it during those hours. Its somethign you dont see these days in the MMO market.
I feel the death of RP has been hastened by the voice chat systems to be honest. Before the voice chat systems (Ventrilo), it was easier to get into a mindset and play the character the way you felt they should be, and everyone seen your character as you presented them. With the voice chat, you just dont get that anymore. I like playing multiple character in the same guild, all with different personalities, all known for 'who' they are, well who the characters are not who I am. I have 4 in my kinship in LoTRO, and the members still insist they are different players even after I tell them they are all me. I dont use the voice chat there though and thats why I can do that. If they talked to me, then I would be the guy with the voice named ******* and all those characters persona would just melt away into mechanics that I have at MY disposal.
On another point, and why I quoted this particular message here is not that I will be playing on Faeblight (which I will be but not important to the issue), but how to keep the community in check for the RP element. SImply the use of in character/out of character etiquet. Use of (( )) around out of character text helps tremendously to clean up the non RP elements. If people respect that one simple function it usually causes the entire communications system on a server to be more amicable to the RP element. And really it isnt that hard to abide by for those that dont RP, but it does show a lot of respect to those that do/try, especially on an RP designated server in any game.
EDIT: oh just had to comment on the guy above me, love how he calls people the RP jerks, and then goes on to believe he is not after he just said that. But, if he was a roleplayer and said all that, then just his character is a jerk. Maybe the guy playing the character might be cool afterall, but...unfortunately he isnt an RPer, so well...means its all him afterall huh.
I had more immersion playing table top Dungeons and Dragons at work, than I ever did playing any MMORPG. They are devoid of half the equation and there are NO MMOs past, present or in the near future that are going to fill that gap. That other half I am refering to is the Dungeon Master who actually creates the story around the characters and either pushes or guides them in the direction of the main goal. That doesn't happen in MMORPGs. They consist of drones all formed out of the dirt with a singular purpose in life. That's to follow the predictable/linear paths set in front of them or to stand over in la la land twiddling their thumbs till they get bored to death. Not exactly what I would call adventure in the making.
It's a problem that is killing new games, as they become more heavily populated, the less focus goes into the individual player. The smaller the community, the easier it is for the game to mold itself around the player rather than bleeding out all sponaneous creativity in order to shallowly amuse a mass of people with stale content that will be repeated to death.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
“I think it's almost impossible to meet new people you like without wanting to share some of yourself outside the game”
Is it? I wonder if many guys will say that is the case, I have no problem with making online friends and realising its best they remain online.
“The RP in MMORPG is definitely not a given these days, and I'm not sure it ever really was anything but a minority interest, even though most of the initial MMO players were probably gamers, at least a decade ago. There's just too much else going on in MMOs, socially and experientially, to utterly enforce a rigid separation between who's onscreen and who's in the chair directing.”
As Ms Parsley said earlier we came from a tabletop and single player rpg background, roleplaying was our main interest in MMORPG’s. We were the majority in the beginning, but that did not last long. Gamers from all walks of life joined us. It was WoW and the introduction of console gamers that made us the minority we are today.
“I'm also starting to realise that my own paradigm of what online gaming is probably isn't relevant to the current, evolved majority paradigm, especially with the rise of Facebook games and the like, which to me seem to be little more than social and marketing containers.”
I think those that replaced the roleplayers are in for a bit of a shock. Already hardcore gamers are becoming marginalised in MMO’s. What next? In a bid to appeal to the majority MMO’s are still transforming. I think we will have less of an open world, less PvP and raids. More housing, achievements, instancing, fluff crafting. Evolution is a good thing, but does what has happened so far strike your as evolution? Devolution more like and there is more to come.
Awesome article! I find myself bemoaning the loss of RP in MMOGs almost as soon as I join a new game's "unofficial" RP server only to find none to be had. Almost equally awesome was this:
I remember meeting a strange fellow named XxXDeathMasterXxX and for obvious reasons I could not pronounce his name, so I called him Dim. He took offense to my mispronounciation of his name, to which I apoligized and called him Dum instead. His rage excalated and he swore at me in hopes that I would cower from his rage. I aptly took his head. I never was much for conversation.
Heheh. BRAVO! Hopefully we'll meet sometime in a game somewhere and decapitate idiots by the score.
Thanks for this article, it reminded me of the times I used to get very verbal discussing it...
I better not elaborate *grin*
By now, I have accepted the fact that we (mostly older) roleplayers in "RPGs" nowadays are very much a minority to become extinct, starved to extinction.
But there will always be those sole moments when we remember. When the Matar Brutor spreads his wisdom of peak recharge rates, words this illeterate character wouldn't even be able to spell half way, normally. When the large ork-like creature with the giant mace poses in front of the group of juvenile wanderers bragging about the "dps" of this weapon he shows off, whatever that might mean in his native tongue of grunting primitives.
In those moments, you can find comfort in the simple insight: They must be roleplaying idiots.
Don't get me wrong, though - it's still as much fun today (if you are able to blank out the mass of short term consumers running alongside) and noone will be able to reasonably argue that "everything was better, back then"™ for it was not ;-)
...activating morph from silent reader to active poster... ...pending... ...pending... ...pending...
My best role playing is when I try to think of clever insults to hurl at people, always using game lore, people make fun of me for insulting NPCs, but I don't give a ****.
I have way too many macro'd. e.g.
"How you like that loose excrement of a prairie chicken for brains?"
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
I think the realy reason there is a lack of the old RP is becuase playing games now is RP. Every two seconds there are quests with roles and objectives. There is little to no need to make up your own story when one is handed to you. If this is a possitive aspect to new games or not is up for debate, but black ops is an rpg you are playing a role, that role follows a story etc. Its not a traditional rpg but it has more role playign than many traditional rpg games.
When i look into my mmo experience i remember all the rp that occured in daoc, i mean in a way they moved towared this implicit form of RP where you just were roling playign and didn't have to go out of your way to do it. If you were a hib you probly disliked middies and played and talked accordingly. Most games do this natually now, but a result is you miss what you still saw a lot in daoc eq uo in the way of ad hoc or player generated rp. Still wow has plenty of rp'ers and even more ability via items to rq (other than houses but that comparison would be unfair. as we coudl say wow has pet,etc. overall it well supports rp).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
By now, I have accepted the fact that we (mostly older) roleplayers in "RPGs" nowadays are very much a minority to become extinct, starved to extinction.
I'd agree, but I'm not satisfied.
(And I keep reading the word "doomed" into the above, as in "a minority doomed to become extinct", and have assumed it is only missing by accident. My addition to the discourse proceeds from there.)
Two points:
First, the minority is sizable. It can be counted or at least estimated. From the general tone of discussions precisely like this one, it's small but not vanishingly small; not yet. Maybe it's not big enough to be an entire market for a game. But isn't it big enough to be the majority of the base for a niche game every couple of years? (Not that I would jump games that often, given one that really pleased me.)
Is there no-one out there lusting after our money, and the possibility of our loyalty to their product, in particular? And if there is, why does there seem to be a lack of understanding of or concern for what would be enabling for us in pursuit of this (extra) dimension to some (otherwise good, solid) game?
(Disclaimer: I've only been looking recently for full- or nearly-full loot PvP games, and maybe that isn't the place to look for RP support.)
Second, maybe the game industry itself doesn't want roleplayers as customers. Seriously.
We might be, for reasons related to our interest in lore and drama and in characterising our actions in a game, less likely to be addicted to games, or to a particular game-- less likely to keep playing through what we perceive as diminishing returns, more critical of changes that game companies make to try to attract new customers. We might be quicker than those to whom RP is not a consideration to quit a game that fails to deliver the things that we (alone) are after.
We might be less likely to buy games on impulse and on the strength of hype. As pointed out in much detail elsewhere in these forums, if not for people buying on the strength of potential and ideals, some companies would apparently never make it.
We might be much less likely to directly pay cash as we go for 'game tokens' (items, useful to game progression or not). We might demand more content and in-game action in order to earn our shiny things than the increasingly popular item store model is designed to make necessary.
We might be the twenty percent (or much, much less) of a game's population that produces 80 percent (or more) of the tickets with which GMs / mods / developers / etc. have to deal-- especially if they make the mistake of giving us rules that, if enforced, would cut down on /OOC and harassment. If this is true, then we not only cost them more in time and effort, but in time and effort spent supporting a sub-community of their players whose presence does often seem like it might keep some other players away. (To some haters, "this game has no rp community" might be a selling point.)
We might be lousy customers / consumers, from the industry's point of view. Maybe we're articulate and outspoken, even influential in gaming communities (not because of the RP, and perhaps in spite of it, but because of our sense of history and veteran credibility) far out of proportion to our number$, and the sooner we're not in those communities muddying up the issues that are presented by the customers that (all things considered) they'd most like to keep, the better for them.
Casilda Tametomo, Priestess of Soldeus | AKA Lepida Aegis-Imperium.com
«Si oblitus fuero usque ad finem omnia opera eorum»
I don't think it's just the older community that is into this sort of thing.
I'm relatively young just into my 20's and I was brought up in a somewhat sheltered religious community where watching card captor sakura would make people worry about you. Playing something like D&D was just far too out there for me up until a couple years ago when I got to uni, even now I've only ever played a couple of 1 shot arena's.
Yet what I yearn for is those sort of table top rpg's and it drives me insane the lack of RP in most of the MMO's out there. Even in single player games I try to enforce it, my oblivion game has mods so my character actually needs sleep etc. Half the mods for it are to improve the look and feel and I stay well away from any mods that break the feeling of the game.
The reason I don't roleplay is not cause I don't want to but I can't find the right group. Also as I'm very particular about what games I play that makes it harder as the main one I play atm is eve, getting insulted for RP'ing is one thing getting hunted down and podded is another =s
Also I think Yatzhee was right MMORPG should just be changed to MOG
I don't think it's just the older community that is into this sort of thing.
I'm relatively young just into my 20's and I was brought up in a somewhat sheltered religious community where watching card captor sakura would make people worry about you. Playing something like D&D was just far too out there for me up until a couple years ago when I got to uni, even now I've only ever played a couple of 1 shot arena's.
Yet what I yearn for is those sort of table top rpg's and it drives me insane the lack of RP in most of the MMO's out there. Even in single player games I try to enforce it, my oblivion game has mods so my character actually needs sleep etc. Half the mods for it are to improve the look and feel and I stay well away from any mods that break the feeling of the game.
The reason I don't roleplay is not cause I don't want to but I can't find the right group. Also as I'm very particular about what games I play that makes it harder as the main one I play atm is eve, getting insulted for RP'ing is one thing getting hunted down and podded is another =s
Also I think Yatzhee was right MMORPG should just be changed to MOG
Nah, we just need to split up the genre more. There will always be some games more aimed for RPGers (keep your eyes out for World of darkness online, half the devs make and play P&P RPGs) while others are more action based.
MMORPG, CORPG, MMOFPS, Action MMOs and possibly MMORTS games would be genres you could split it into, that is why most people just say MMOs today.
I think anyways that you should advertise after a RPG guild, almost all games and servers have some and most of them are happy for new members.
Off topic: You do know that Bethesda is working on a MMO? Possibly in the same world as Oblivion, or so the rumors say. I know this because they hired in people for a unnamned MMO 2 years ago.
Comments
Just wanted to say thanks for writing a truly thought provoking piece. Many times I get caught up in game mechanics and features about new releases. None of them keep me interested for this long.
It would be nice to see games that focus on rp again. Now, there is very little thought set aside for immersion. Its all about ease of access. Still, if games were to turn the corner again, it would still be up to each individual to actually take interest in a grander scope in their gaming.
Rp in an mmo only really works in a sandbox, open world type of setting. But that doesn't mean it's impossible to find.
There are even some groups to be found in WoW, such as the Shadowclan Orcs, who always stay in character, run events,etc..
But it's tougher when you play in a game like WoW or EQ which is basically level based and on rails ( play this area till x lvl, then move on to area b till you're xx level) .
My first game experience was back in Ultima Online on the Catskills server which was known for rp pvp groups like The Shadowclan and others.
I remember back then thinking how cool the games in the next 10 years were going to be, how much more advanced from UO they would get.Sheesh, was I wrong.
As the games have actually devolved becoming simpler, easier to play/level, my tastes have brought me full circle back to pen and paper games ( although nowadays you do a lot of your playing on wet/dry erase battlemaps with minis).I spend more time a week playing and GMing Pathfinder than playing online, though I do have a sub to Fallen Earth.
However online rp in a persistent graphical setting isn't completely dead. You can still fire up Bioware's Neverwinter Nights game and check out some of the excellent player run PWs.It's not massive, as the most players I've ever seen on a server has been around 50- 60 players back when the game was more popular, but still..The graphics are definitely showing their age in that game, but they're not too bad especially if the world is using some of the awesome player made content that's available.
Instead of bleating on about the lack of RP in MMORPGs, which incidentally is not true as there is a world of RP out there in many games ranging from the likes of pvpfests EvE and Darkfall to the carebear worlds of WoW and Aion, go and seek it out and ye shall find.
Should you fail in that quest simply roll a barbarian in AoC and go chop some-one's head off.
Enjoyable read - thank you Isabelle.
I'm currently playing EQ2 at the moment and you can label yourself a role player. So far I've met a handful of people interested (as in also RP tagged) but nothing has panned out yet. Still, its a way to improve the chances of meeting like-minded people.
I heard that there is a strong RP community in LOTRO (server Laurelin?) but I became too attached to my guild on another server for me to take advantage of it.
Generally I'm interested in giving RP a go in every MMO I play, but very rarely have I had the chance. In that sense, your article is spot on.
Good topic.
There's a reason that both companies and players increasingly use the term MMO instead of MMORPG - the RPG part is getting removed from the genre - and that's true for both definitions of RPG: the actual role-playing itself and the RPG-like character progression.
That's just how the industry developed over the last years. FPS and RTS games always had a larger market share than RPGs, thus from a business point-of-view it makes sense to develop MMOs in a way that makes them attractive for players with a RTS or FPS preference.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Hmmm, interesting to say the least. There is still roleplay in some games. Like in EQ2 when Im on my rotunga (rat race) I will be asking for cheese running from kerra race making sqeeking sounds at my fellow rotunga in the guild hall. Same as when I am on my kerra I will chase fellow guild mates around meow at them and pretend to be a bad cat.
However a lot of these newer games there is no role play, they are very shallow.
I would think the RP crowd (which I'm not a part of) would flock to the "sandbox" games where they actually can play a part in the overall story of the server and impact the world. In a game like Darkfall, you can lead an uprising, be mercenaries who tip the scales in battle for the highest bidder, create an evil empire set on taking over the world, etc etc etc. For example, during the launch of the game we had King Manus and his giant Hyperion army swallowing up 1/3 of the very large world, before several other groups banded together to put a stop to them. That is a part of the history of our world that the players themselves created through their actions in game.
I'm not advertising for Darkfall here, I'm sure there are plenty of other games where the same thing is possible. I just can't understand how RPing in a "themepark" game could compare.
Role = character class or function while in a raid or party to many. There is no sense of individual, personality, or true 'personal communication'.
Roleplaying is one of the few things that is different in each MMO becasue each MMO has a different story. Questing and PvP are pretty similar across games, I think roleplaying is what makes a game extra unique
Roleplayers are being creative, PvPers are being violent, PvEers are reading, and grinders are saluting an NPC somewhere until their arm falls off.
Rp'ing is really more of a guild thin in most games than a server wide thing. It would really be nothing short of a miracle to have that many people stay in character. I actually prefer to play RP servers: not because of the RP, but because its generally older people that roll there.
I've tried rp'ing, and even LARP'ing, (to my eternal shame), but its always feels just a little too wierd.
I am surprised however, that RP'ing hasn't taken off as mush in other genre's like the super hero niche. COH/COV is tailor made for it during character creation and power choice and even has a notepad to create your own backstory and share with others.
I also as a pen & paper RPGer have also found it difficult to RP in MMOs. As stated above, it was really easy to do in CoH, and I did RP my favorite character. But in other MMOs like WoW, D&D, or even EQ. I just couldn't get the feel of RPing a character.
Perhaps it was the rails that dictated everything I did in Wow, maybe it was the grinding in EQ, Dungeon crawling all the time in D&D didn't really help either. But I think it really comes down to the fact that I could not feel unique in in these games. I looked like everyoe else. In CoH/CoV I felt like I had my own character, instead of feeling like I had a copy of a character that devs designed for me to play.
Ye rpg isn't really great in mmorpg, in fact the rpg in mmorpg is more of a source inspiration than anything else.
The only real valid rp i found in all themmorpg was acted rp. Contrary to talked rp in the pen&paper games. In very few mmorpg you could rp with your character behavior. Would he act like the good guy or like an ass, would he make friends or be solitary, what kind of profession and template he would have... All those kind of behavior are in fact the food for your role playing in mmorpg. So ye its more acted than talked, which is not bad at all in fact, i enjoyed it a lot in UO for exemple, and a lot of people did.
But this never even developed that much, because mmorpg are just designed as computer games most of the time, apart from Ultima online, and NeverWinterNights, none of the mmorpg i played really wanted you to role play anything. None of the mmorpg where designed around the idea to have your charcater being an actor in the world he is living in, as i said the only exceptions for me was UO and NWN, in 10 years of mmorpgs gaming. Thats so low.
Designer don't want you to act in their games, they want you to play, thats quiet different point of view. No wonder why rp is anything else but a source of inspiration to those games, its a shame really, those games could have been so much more interesting, if they just tryed to developed the superb aspect rp turned to be in the first mmorpg that was UO; You can read the old school web pages of that time, rp was mainly acted as i said, with force screenshot and imaginated concept. Did you evr saw that later on, in an other mmorpg? i didn't.
Like many replies here - I echo the nostalgia of a concept that seems at first glance, to have worn out it's welcome in the modern online game age. Roleplaying in the MMORPG setting is possible but I agree that's getting harder and harder to find. I'm an old school tabletop gamer and I moved into the virtual world with UO and then EverQuest over a decade ago. I've tried every popular game out there - some made it, others didn't; but in all of the games, I made an honest effort to roleplay my characters. I still do.
I believe in the notion that "if you roleplay - they will come". When you hide in private channels or keep roleplay to specific groups or homes, no one sees it. No one can then remember 'oh hey! I used to enjoy that!' and join you. If you make an effort to roleplay in public channels or to even go a step further and announce it on a channel "hey, anyone who wants to RP, there's some happening here" - people will start to come out of the woodwork. Will there be non-rpers who try to spoil things? Sometimes - there's always going to be some toolbag who thinks it's funny to ruin someone else's game. You have that in real life too. I use my blacklist /ignore feature without mercy.
When enough people start actively roleplaying together, a community forms. On that note - I will toss in some props for the upcoming game Rift: Planes of Telara. There IS a growing Roleplay community forming - Faeblight is our server of choice. There are even some guilds forming pre-launch who are specific to Roleplay or RP friendly. I haven't found this kind of sense of belonging and anticipation since EverQuest first released. Check out RiftRP.net
~The Lost, the Weary, the Defiant; be welcome among us. We are The Forgotten.~
the-forgotten.info
First to the scientist guy who tried to define roleplaying as acting and then lampooned online roleplaying I'd he/she has some learning to do about how online roleplaying works. Or even tabletop roleplaying. In many ways it's far more about the creative writing/thought process then the "acting". I won't argue that actors aren't roleplayers, they are, but there are dozens of ways one can express oneself as "someone else".
To those who think online Roleplaying is dying, I say, "Stop the pessimism." It's not dying. It's far from dead. There are fervent roleplaying communities in dozens of titles. Roleplayers are, however, a severe minority and always have been. The more popular the game the more obvious this is. Finding the roleplayers can, in many cases, be a challenge. I agree that the communities tend to be reclusive, they don't advertise their presence. Partially because there's an equal sized community of insecure idiots who find roleplayers easy targets for griefing and partly because I think, roleplayers want you to have to find them. Mainly because that means you're actually serious about trying to RP.
Some games make it harder than others. Lack of instances or private housing, inability to form community chat channels, zone size limits, lack of character outfit tools can all take a serious ding out of RP'ing. Setting and familiarity also tend to create challenges. Regardless, the RP'ers are out there, but you need to be prepared to deal with small communities, often casual players with eradic schedules etc. And like all gamers, their community sizes tendt o be large at game launches and wane rapidly as time goes on.
Theres just a lack of rp'ers. RP tend to be to serious at all times and the serious rper's can be the biggest jerks in the game when they think someone isn't following their perceived role of a RPer. I think most people have outgrown the rules that RPers enforce.
I'm from the days of D&D (yeah prior to the A in front of that) and have very fond memories of those days. The thing that sets it all apart in the roleplay side is the character itself. I knew many guys I played with who were the nicest guys in life but played the most depraved characters imaginable. They were so seperate personalities that the character was its own living being when we sat down to play, the player just was a vessel for it during those hours. Its somethign you dont see these days in the MMO market.
I feel the death of RP has been hastened by the voice chat systems to be honest. Before the voice chat systems (Ventrilo), it was easier to get into a mindset and play the character the way you felt they should be, and everyone seen your character as you presented them. With the voice chat, you just dont get that anymore. I like playing multiple character in the same guild, all with different personalities, all known for 'who' they are, well who the characters are not who I am. I have 4 in my kinship in LoTRO, and the members still insist they are different players even after I tell them they are all me. I dont use the voice chat there though and thats why I can do that. If they talked to me, then I would be the guy with the voice named ******* and all those characters persona would just melt away into mechanics that I have at MY disposal.
On another point, and why I quoted this particular message here is not that I will be playing on Faeblight (which I will be but not important to the issue), but how to keep the community in check for the RP element. SImply the use of in character/out of character etiquet. Use of (( )) around out of character text helps tremendously to clean up the non RP elements. If people respect that one simple function it usually causes the entire communications system on a server to be more amicable to the RP element. And really it isnt that hard to abide by for those that dont RP, but it does show a lot of respect to those that do/try, especially on an RP designated server in any game.
EDIT: oh just had to comment on the guy above me, love how he calls people the RP jerks, and then goes on to believe he is not after he just said that. But, if he was a roleplayer and said all that, then just his character is a jerk. Maybe the guy playing the character might be cool afterall, but...unfortunately he isnt an RPer, so well...means its all him afterall huh.
I had more immersion playing table top Dungeons and Dragons at work, than I ever did playing any MMORPG. They are devoid of half the equation and there are NO MMOs past, present or in the near future that are going to fill that gap. That other half I am refering to is the Dungeon Master who actually creates the story around the characters and either pushes or guides them in the direction of the main goal. That doesn't happen in MMORPGs. They consist of drones all formed out of the dirt with a singular purpose in life. That's to follow the predictable/linear paths set in front of them or to stand over in la la land twiddling their thumbs till they get bored to death. Not exactly what I would call adventure in the making.
It's a problem that is killing new games, as they become more heavily populated, the less focus goes into the individual player. The smaller the community, the easier it is for the game to mold itself around the player rather than bleeding out all sponaneous creativity in order to shallowly amuse a mass of people with stale content that will be repeated to death.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
“I think it's almost impossible to meet new people you like without wanting to share some of yourself outside the game”
Is it? I wonder if many guys will say that is the case, I have no problem with making online friends and realising its best they remain online.
“The RP in MMORPG is definitely not a given these days, and I'm not sure it ever really was anything but a minority interest, even though most of the initial MMO players were probably gamers, at least a decade ago. There's just too much else going on in MMOs, socially and experientially, to utterly enforce a rigid separation between who's onscreen and who's in the chair directing.”
As Ms Parsley said earlier we came from a tabletop and single player rpg background, roleplaying was our main interest in MMORPG’s. We were the majority in the beginning, but that did not last long. Gamers from all walks of life joined us. It was WoW and the introduction of console gamers that made us the minority we are today.
“I'm also starting to realise that my own paradigm of what online gaming is probably isn't relevant to the current, evolved majority paradigm, especially with the rise of Facebook games and the like, which to me seem to be little more than social and marketing containers.”
I think those that replaced the roleplayers are in for a bit of a shock. Already hardcore gamers are becoming marginalised in MMO’s. What next? In a bid to appeal to the majority MMO’s are still transforming. I think we will have less of an open world, less PvP and raids. More housing, achievements, instancing, fluff crafting. Evolution is a good thing, but does what has happened so far strike your as evolution? Devolution more like and there is more to come.
Awesome article! I find myself bemoaning the loss of RP in MMOGs almost as soon as I join a new game's "unofficial" RP server only to find none to be had. Almost equally awesome was this:
I remember meeting a strange fellow named XxXDeathMasterXxX and for obvious reasons I could not pronounce his name, so I called him Dim. He took offense to my mispronounciation of his name, to which I apoligized and called him Dum instead. His rage excalated and he swore at me in hopes that I would cower from his rage. I aptly took his head. I never was much for conversation.
Heheh. BRAVO! Hopefully we'll meet sometime in a game somewhere and decapitate idiots by the score.
Thanks for this article, it reminded me of the times I used to get very verbal discussing it...
I better not elaborate *grin*
By now, I have accepted the fact that we (mostly older) roleplayers in "RPGs" nowadays are very much a minority to become extinct, starved to extinction.
But there will always be those sole moments when we remember. When the Matar Brutor spreads his wisdom of peak recharge rates, words this illeterate character wouldn't even be able to spell half way, normally. When the large ork-like creature with the giant mace poses in front of the group of juvenile wanderers bragging about the "dps" of this weapon he shows off, whatever that might mean in his native tongue of grunting primitives.
In those moments, you can find comfort in the simple insight: They must be roleplaying idiots.
Don't get me wrong, though - it's still as much fun today (if you are able to blank out the mass of short term consumers running alongside) and noone will be able to reasonably argue that "everything was better, back then"™ for it was not ;-)
...activating morph from silent reader to active poster...
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My best role playing is when I try to think of clever insults to hurl at people, always using game lore, people make fun of me for insulting NPCs, but I don't give a ****.
I have way too many macro'd. e.g.
"How you like that loose excrement of a prairie chicken for brains?"
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
I think the realy reason there is a lack of the old RP is becuase playing games now is RP. Every two seconds there are quests with roles and objectives. There is little to no need to make up your own story when one is handed to you. If this is a possitive aspect to new games or not is up for debate, but black ops is an rpg you are playing a role, that role follows a story etc. Its not a traditional rpg but it has more role playign than many traditional rpg games.
When i look into my mmo experience i remember all the rp that occured in daoc, i mean in a way they moved towared this implicit form of RP where you just were roling playign and didn't have to go out of your way to do it. If you were a hib you probly disliked middies and played and talked accordingly. Most games do this natually now, but a result is you miss what you still saw a lot in daoc eq uo in the way of ad hoc or player generated rp. Still wow has plenty of rp'ers and even more ability via items to rq (other than houses but that comparison would be unfair. as we coudl say wow has pet,etc. overall it well supports rp).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I'd agree, but I'm not satisfied.
(And I keep reading the word "doomed" into the above, as in "a minority doomed to become extinct", and have assumed it is only missing by accident. My addition to the discourse proceeds from there.)
Two points:
First, the minority is sizable. It can be counted or at least estimated. From the general tone of discussions precisely like this one, it's small but not vanishingly small; not yet. Maybe it's not big enough to be an entire market for a game. But isn't it big enough to be the majority of the base for a niche game every couple of years? (Not that I would jump games that often, given one that really pleased me.)
Is there no-one out there lusting after our money, and the possibility of our loyalty to their product, in particular? And if there is, why does there seem to be a lack of understanding of or concern for what would be enabling for us in pursuit of this (extra) dimension to some (otherwise good, solid) game?
(Disclaimer: I've only been looking recently for full- or nearly-full loot PvP games, and maybe that isn't the place to look for RP support.)
Second, maybe the game industry itself doesn't want roleplayers as customers. Seriously.
We might be, for reasons related to our interest in lore and drama and in characterising our actions in a game, less likely to be addicted to games, or to a particular game-- less likely to keep playing through what we perceive as diminishing returns, more critical of changes that game companies make to try to attract new customers. We might be quicker than those to whom RP is not a consideration to quit a game that fails to deliver the things that we (alone) are after.
We might be less likely to buy games on impulse and on the strength of hype. As pointed out in much detail elsewhere in these forums, if not for people buying on the strength of potential and ideals, some companies would apparently never make it.
We might be much less likely to directly pay cash as we go for 'game tokens' (items, useful to game progression or not). We might demand more content and in-game action in order to earn our shiny things than the increasingly popular item store model is designed to make necessary.
We might be the twenty percent (or much, much less) of a game's population that produces 80 percent (or more) of the tickets with which GMs / mods / developers / etc. have to deal-- especially if they make the mistake of giving us rules that, if enforced, would cut down on /OOC and harassment. If this is true, then we not only cost them more in time and effort, but in time and effort spent supporting a sub-community of their players whose presence does often seem like it might keep some other players away. (To some haters, "this game has no rp community" might be a selling point.)
We might be lousy customers / consumers, from the industry's point of view. Maybe we're articulate and outspoken, even influential in gaming communities (not because of the RP, and perhaps in spite of it, but because of our sense of history and veteran credibility) far out of proportion to our number$, and the sooner we're not in those communities muddying up the issues that are presented by the customers that (all things considered) they'd most like to keep, the better for them.
«Si oblitus fuero usque ad finem omnia opera eorum»
I don't think it's just the older community that is into this sort of thing.
I'm relatively young just into my 20's and I was brought up in a somewhat sheltered religious community where watching card captor sakura would make people worry about you. Playing something like D&D was just far too out there for me up until a couple years ago when I got to uni, even now I've only ever played a couple of 1 shot arena's.
Yet what I yearn for is those sort of table top rpg's and it drives me insane the lack of RP in most of the MMO's out there. Even in single player games I try to enforce it, my oblivion game has mods so my character actually needs sleep etc. Half the mods for it are to improve the look and feel and I stay well away from any mods that break the feeling of the game.
The reason I don't roleplay is not cause I don't want to but I can't find the right group. Also as I'm very particular about what games I play that makes it harder as the main one I play atm is eve, getting insulted for RP'ing is one thing getting hunted down and podded is another =s
Also I think Yatzhee was right MMORPG should just be changed to MOG
Into the breach meatbags
Nah, we just need to split up the genre more. There will always be some games more aimed for RPGers (keep your eyes out for World of darkness online, half the devs make and play P&P RPGs) while others are more action based.
MMORPG, CORPG, MMOFPS, Action MMOs and possibly MMORTS games would be genres you could split it into, that is why most people just say MMOs today.
I think anyways that you should advertise after a RPG guild, almost all games and servers have some and most of them are happy for new members.
Off topic: You do know that Bethesda is working on a MMO? Possibly in the same world as Oblivion, or so the rumors say. I know this because they hired in people for a unnamned MMO 2 years ago.