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Starting to lose hope.. (Warning.. Long post, slight rant)
manday
Member Posts: 291
I remember when I first started playing MMORPGs, I had no expectations. Almost every game I tried was like "Oh wow this is cool!", "Yay only 10 more lvls till I can (insert reason here)!", well basically, I was jus amused by the different gfx of different genres of MMOs that Ive tried.
The reason Im bringing this up, is that no matter how many new games come out now, they will all have the same elements. Whether it be an anime-style MMO, a sci-fi (which Im so not into), fantasy... It doesnt matter, were always forced to lvl upskill up in some form. N now, I feel like Ive done it all. N Im scared to say this, but I think I might be getting bored of games.
No, it cant be that. But Im really sick of the unoriginality! In the past year, Ive had troubles getting into MMOs, feeling that I *am* my character, feeling that things I do will have some impact (even tiny) on the "world" around me.
How are veteran gamers supposed to get a kick out of these new games, when theyre always the same thing, with slightly better gfx? How are gamers who have "seen it all", supposed to feel some connection to their char, how are they supposed to *WANT* to lvl grind? Especially when almost every game out there looks the same, feels the same, etc.. "I got addicted to (insert game here) last year, I lvl grinded to lvl 70, n now that there is (insert new generation game here) with slightly better gfx, Im gonna start it all over!"
How are we, as gamers, supposed to accept that? Im sick of lvl grinding. Ive already done it. Over, n over, n over. N I still love MMOs, jus not wat developers are coming up with. "If it works, stick with it" doesnt apply in this situation. Sure, there are tons of ppl who havent already lvl grinded, n they are willing to do it... But Im sure theres tons of ppl like me who are getting serious burnout.
I kno ppl are gonna tell me to get Eve Online.. But Im *so* not into sci-fi, n doing nothing to skillup really doesnt interest me.
Quests interest me, when they have storyline. When they have MEANING. Being told to go kill X amount of monsters "jus becuz" isnt storyline. Its being an NPCs bitch for no reason. Heh.
Comments
It is just that recently there has been a huge increase in the amount of mmorpgs on the market. It is just hard to find a "new" one when they all just have upgraded graphics or more classes. I would say retire for a year and keep checking on new things and hope that something comes out that catches your attention.
I don't mind to do a few quests like killing x amount off y creature. But i would love to see some real large quests that affect the story and gameplay in the game, but i mean some real assault or takeovers from enemie creatures and you have got to take them back, find and fight a big boss and some new opened territory,.... I had hoped that horizons had to offer that to me but that was kind of a dissappointment to me (don't know what it looks/plays like now).
I am hoping that either Irth Online or Dark and Light will draw my attention back to playing mmorpg.
One day all will die, surely you but never I.
"One day all will die, surely you but never I." Wheel of Time
That would be nice. I played games where the quests were like that, go into a dungeon, kill a boss thats obviously way stronger than you. Not quite with the world-changing result, but still funner.
I wish that more games revolved ard quests. N I wish quests had more options.
"No Mr. NPC, I am *not* going to kill 20 bunny rabbits for you, instead, Im going to call Animal Rights activists n have them picket outside your house!" Jus an example. But still. Quests should have more options
They should be funner also.
Most games are clones of what's been done before. You see this in all genres, and thus also in MMORPGs.
This is in a way a pitty. I'd be nice if every game was fresh and origional... but in another its inevitable.
If you're fed up with grinding, do as the above poster suggests.. take a break for a year or so. New and origional MMORPGs will come out eventually. Join them then. In the mean time, get a new hobby
I've taken a break for the last half year as I was fed up grinding in Lineage II. Now I'm going to play WoW in Januari (EU Relaase). Can't wait to get back again!
Cheers,
Nash
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Ill suggest to you to have a look at http://www.fomportal.com/ which is home of a game in development called Face of mankind, it looks to have everything you want (no lvls, missions really means something, you can have a massive impact on the world around you). Only thing is its a Sci-fi so you might not like it but hay i just thought i'd mention it incase you do.
Thanks Neptune, its much appreciated, but I don think that lvls are the problem. I think its how we obtain lvls thats the big problem.. I don want to be on the same standing as a person who jus started playing. I don want to be able to wear "uber" equips at lvl 1. But killing 100,000+ mobs in a game, for no apparent reason.. :
I guess Im thinking more on the lines of 1 player RPG games. You don lvl grind in these. You always have a purpose. Sure, on the way to bosses, you kill minions of some type, but thats becuz youre on your way to a boss. N then, when that "mission" is done, you move onto the next.
A game shouldnt feel like work. You should always be interested in wat youre "playing", cuz, well, it is a game.
You may have to except the fact that the genre may not be your thing. For me, I dont mind "leveling up" becuase I don't care about it. I don't feel I have to get to Level x in order to enjoy the game, allthought DAoC was that way, thats why I don't play that game...but its more about how you look at the game...
Its one of 2 things, am I gonna sit down and enjoy my adventure tonight or am I gonna sit down and treat it like a job(level grind)...I prefer to look at it the first way, and there are occasions where I feel bored, I log off and I find something else to do till I feel like logging in can be fun again....reality is-the grind is in the mind, nothing more.
Godz of War I call Thee
Godz of War I call Thee
You're not alone. Everything is a copy, of a copy, of a copy, of a copy *image of Tyler* of a copy.... lol.
But seriously, you're right. MMORPG = Timesink... whether it be the leveling treadmill, crafting, camping for loot. After playing MANY mmorpg's... leaving one for another... and realizing that I put sooooo many hours, well ok months into leveling, gathering, crafting... that I couldn't take a single bit of what I earned ingame with me when I left. I can't say "Hey, I no longer like playing with other people, let me play this game by myself and without the monthly fee too". Heck even if it was an environment like .hack I think it'd make replaying Everquest for me very replayable. Set bots with some decent AI for party members... yah I'd play it. Same goes for all my other mmorpg's I've left behind... UO, AO, DAoC, Shadowbane... I can imagine it... won't happen, but I could see myself having fun again with them.
There are a few games I'm looking forward to trying in hopes of "seeing the light" but I have my doubts. Guild Wars was fun, playable and cash friendly so my friends that are tightwads won't have to pay to play. However I saw it as MMORPG as say Diablo or Phantasy Star Online. Dungeons and Dragons Online is the other. The main reason I started playing MMORPG's was because I loved playing AD&D, and liked the idea of being lazy and having combat and content simplified. So to actually play the game that started my love for RPG's as a whole is uplifting... but not sure on "how" the game will play... maybe my expectations will be too high for it. *shrugs* I dunno.
I do remember however playing games and going "Wow, this is fun!" gorilla.bas, LHX Attack Chopper, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Crescent Hawks: Inception/Revenge, Mechwarrior, X-Com: TFTD, Mechwarrior 2, Diablo, Starcraft, Dungeon Keeper, Ultima Online, Everquest.... then after that... *shrugs* been looking, but not finding. Sure there have been good-great games... but none that really shook me or was groundbreaking in my view.
Till then... grab a good FPS game... nothing soothes the leveling beast than putting a bullet in someones eye
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Your not alone,but it sounds like you need to either find the mmo for you and deal with it or take a break.Yeah players will tell ya to try EvE but its a damn fine game.
Your post is a perfect example of people getting sick and tired of the genre not evolving.There are a few games coming out that will be pushing it forward.Most of these involve PvP.Wich is fine by me i dont play mmo's so i dont interact with other players.If i was going to do that id play an offline game and save the 14.99 a month.
Either this genre evolves out of its fantasy origins or it improves upon it.Better yet how about MORE games that are not fantasy based?
Just recently EQ2 and WoW were released and these games are perfect examples of the genre NOT evolving.They both were over hyped as to be the salvation of the genre.The fact of the matter is they recycled ideas from 5 years ago.
To be honest the most fun ive ever had in a mmo is with CoH.Hey say what you will about it but when your playing with other heroes and are in a TF or just doing missions it cant be beat.Its the flipside of all the other mmo's on the market.Log on and play almost immediatley.Its easy to find a group,and if your in a SG that uses the right tactics its even better.People say all you do is bash criminals,so what?MMO's are all the same anyway your either crafting or trying for the next level.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
I have to agree with the original poster....
Just cant seem to find a game that feels fresh and exciting. I am playing WOW right now but I cant shake the feeling of deja Vu that i get.
It would be nice to see a game come out that involves the players more into the actual storyline of the game. I realize that it would require more Live events with GMs playing the part of NPCs but I say people would respond and it would all be worth it,
Let the players shape the world instead of just having this static environment that will never evolve regardless of the actions of those who inhabit it.
Alright listen up you primitive screwheads.....This is my BOOMSTICK!
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
The thing is... MMORPGs *are* my thing. I loved the original RPGs on consoles, I still love them, but I like being part of a community. Sure, I may bitch abt the KSers, looters, cheaters that play alongside of me, but I need (the good ppl of) the community.
Im jus irritated that were getting the same concepts, over, n over, n over, n over.. Im still gonna try WoW. I tried the Krn OB, but I cant get the feel of the game simply becuz of the language barrier, n my Eng WoW box isnt coming till Febuary >.<;
I would love to take a year break, but I cant. Im addicted to the genre (fantasy MMORPG) itself, altho it hasnt given me anything for quite a while.
Ill try Wish. Then Ill try WoW. Then Ill prob try D&L n D&D. If all else fails, I guess Ill jus consider myself of a drifter, "trying" a bunch of games to keep my time occupied :X
EDIT: Beatbox, instead of saying that, why not list the things in those games that are OHHH SO DIFFERENT? The fact is, theyre not so different. They have *slightly* different experience charts from other games, but the classes, the "jobs", the weapons, the quests, theyre all the same. Housing (from EQ2) has been done, instances (from WoW) have been done. Wats so different?
Theyre still the same lvl grind.
"Why are you lvling?" "To be uber!"
"Why do you have to kill 500,000 of those goblins to lvl?" "Becuz" "
"Why are you killing 25 of those cute little blobs?" "An NPC told me to"
This is probably asking for too much, but I want more depth. I want a reason. To hit lvl cap is *not* a reason.
At least the gaming industry is still growing, new Mmorpgs different than those we have today will come sooner or later. I just hope they come from serious developers/companies. If they're too small they're gonna have trouble develop it and hire talented people, and its gonna look like crap heh.
It is frustrating to have to wait, I sure agree. I just returned to the mentioned Eve Online. The game is brilliant in many ways, but there are certain things I want different, so I'm not staying there.
Go for roma victor
http://www.roma-victor.com
no levels. Everyone has realistic human strengths and abilities. Damage is entirely realistic, so veteran players aren't immune to n00bs. Controls are FPSish. Nothing like typical MMORPGs, you control directly from first person view. As for quests, you don't have quests per say, just realistic stuff. But, you can kill the emperor of Rome and take his place, for crissakes, I think that's about as big and world influencing as a quest gets
Remember kids, when you see the lava coming, duck and cover!!!
Remember kids, when you see the lava coming, duck and cover!!!
Haven't read the entirety of the thread just speaking directly to the OP.
MMO's will and do evolve very slowly, so not much will change in a short period of time. There are some innovative games on the way particularly The Matrix Online and Tabula Rasa, and while they have many new innovations to the genre they hold still many similarities to MMO's of the past. This is not due to lack of creativity, but is rather intentional. The MMO industry is rather volatile and very high risk to get into, so MMOs tend to evolve slow, innovations here and there, smaller risks, to see how MMO players react to them. Revolutionary changes may put longtime MMO gamers off as they will lack an easy to jump into familiarity. This is why you've noticed most games are generally alike, and they will continue to do so as they slowly evolve.
ALTHOUGH
Some games take a chance particularly Wish / Dark and Light both very similiar to each other yet incorporate radical differences -- revolutionary changes. They are high risk games, going against the grain and ignoring the evolving type of design and instead just try to push the envelope entirely. This type of game is probably for you if you're tired of the similiarities across the game as it promises to be very different. But since it since its such a different game, its success in practice is still iffy. Keep a look out for DNL / Wish. And give Matrix Online and Tabula Rasa a try when they drop later this year.
Happy Holidays.
If the leveling grind upsets you then why not give Eve Online a whirl.
I'm not gonna go on and on about it because I'll get called a fanboi. But there's no level grind in it you'll just get better the longer you play.
Be warned though. Mining IS a grind of sorts but it's only one of the gameplay options open to you.
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Don't jump off the roof Dad
You'll make a hole in the yard
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Don't jump off the roof Dad
You'll make a hole in the yard
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I used to occasionally check up on DnL but forgot what it is really. What's different about wish and DnL? Do they have radically new control schemes or something? Gotten rid of that point and watch mechanic? No more levelling or sudden transitions of any type (like buying skills or levelling)?
isn't eve online just the one that you buy a skill or whatever then it's yours in x amt of time, no matter what? I don't particularly like that either, I prefer to migrate towards realism, not away. I mean, making a shitty unrealistic system even more unrealistic isn't a wise way of trying to improve.
Remember kids, when you see the lava coming, duck and cover!!!
Remember kids, when you see the lava coming, duck and cover!!!
Make up your mind which it is that bothers you, because you are contradicting yourself.
Sounds to me like you got caught on the treadmill. You have to decide for yourself what it is that interests you in these games. Is it the adventure? Is it the achievement? Is it the competition? Is it the community?
Go take the measuring Bartle-quotient test test and find out more about yourself. That will help you find out what it is you like about gaming to begin with, and it will help give you a language that will assist you to find ways to enjoy these games.
manday
you may like WoW . thier quests do have a feel of purpose.
you kill 5 wolves to get skins so an NPC can make you gloves.. things that like
Blizzard put alot of time in explaining quests.
This is why it is still fun even though it really is nothign new.
It polishes up the already excisting Ideas.
Make up your mind which it is that bothers you, because you are contradicting yourself.
Sounds to me like you got caught on the treadmill. You have to decide for yourself what it is that interests you in these games. Is it the adventure? Is it the achievement? Is it the competition? Is it the community?
Go take the measuring Bartle-quotient test test and find out more about yourself. That will help you find out what it is you like about gaming to begin with, and it will help give you a language that will assist you to find ways to enjoy these games.
That is not a contradiction.
To say your being "FORCED" to level/skill up. and to not do anyting at all to Skill up are 2 different ends of the spectrum.
Maybe he wants something in between.
So he didnt' contradtict himself at all.
IMHO that one line says it all. You had no expectations for each game when you first started playing. You were not comparing any game to other games. But simply comparing each game to itself. Liking each game for whatever features it had.
I personally think it is still possible to bring back this mindset while playing current MMORPGs. Simply do not think about other games when trying a new game. Judge a game vs itself. Is there anything good about it? Like it, and enjoy it, based on whatever good features it has.
-Personal Website
http://www.geocities.com/xplororor/index.html
-AC, AC2, AO, EQ, SWG:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
http://community.webshots.com/user/captain_sica_xol
-EverQuest II:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_eq2archives01
-EQ, Dungeon Siege, Diablo II, *UXO*:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
-EVE Online !!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01
DAoC
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives02
To get that kind of gameplay and content, you need to play single player games. That's where my Morrowind comes in handy
I can actually AFFECT things. I can actually kill that NPC and he's not gonna reappear like nothing happened.
Problem is massive multi player games NEED to remain static. Except for certain rare instances, everything in the game has to be the same day in day out, and with respawn timers to simulate a true dynamic world. But it's not.
Ugh, and all that does is make every new mmorpg seem like a clone of the last, just with different graphics and names etc. The gameplay itself is the same boring static play. "Go kill xxx monsters, bring their tails back to me, and nothing whatsoever will change in the world and I'll ask someone else to repeat it", or "Go deliver xxx item to yyy, and when done nothing whatsoever will change and someone else will do it". It does get boring!
Seriously, play Morrowind (with some of the great mods out there) or another single player game. You'll miss the community but the gameplay itself is a breath of fresh air! You may actually not want to return to mmorpg's after you realize what you can't do in them that you'd want to.
Ya kno, my internet went out for 2 days, n I was jus abt going crazy cuz I had nth to do, so I went out n rented Morrowind. I wanted to choke someone, thats how much I hated that game
I will try WoW once I get my hands on the damn box. I will try Wish on Jan 1st (frustrated tho, cuz I spent 3 hrs DLing it jus now, when fileplanet decided to DC me at 70smth%). Thanks for the advice from everyone tho, but Im afraid I cant jus give up for a year (Ima addict), I cant play FPS (I hate the POV, makes me feel like theres always smth behind me, n I hate the general community n gameplay of FPS games). Maybe Ill go DL some gd emulators n RPG roms. HmMmMm..
Oh n btw, last time I checked, I didnt have a penis. So quit assuming Im male becuz Ima gamer. Thx^^
I think people have lost sight of why we play these games....
These kinds of games are the same ones we were playing before just an extension of D&D so to speak. Most people who play MMOs were either playing a similar game on console or they played pen and paper style RPG. This kind of game is usually a story in which you learn to BE your character. You develop a sense of actually participating.
The UO thing was just the next logical step in the evolution of the RPG. We enjoyed playing Ultima on our dads computer and then on our original nintendo. The idea that the world of Ultima could be a persistant world that you could live in and share with other REAL people was far too attractive to ignore. Thus MMO becomes a hot commodity among the RPG community.
Along comes EQ and they take it a step further by making the graphics better and changing your game Point of view so that you feel even more immersed in the game. This was the crowning achievement of MMOs to date. We loved EQ because we finally could be our character and interact with others who WERE their characters.
It wasnt about grinding back then. We were all so immersed in our characters and the rich world of possibility that it did not feel like work. What we are missing is the social aspects that made the games great. Before we all got sucked in to the competition to see who could accumulate the most uber stuff or make the most money. We used to just hang out and enjoy the game.
We desperately need to get back to the roots of the genre. Even if it means losing a large portion of the players. We have to stop blaming the game companies for accomodating us in our greed and lust for advancement. The only way to save our beloved RPG is to refine it to what it once was. A world where the people in it matter more than the things that you aquire.
Alright listen up you primitive screwheads.....This is my BOOMSTICK!
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
starman999, please speak for yourself. Your opinion does not represent everyone who plays MMOGs.
Personally...Immersion and freedom is what I'm looking for.
No rules, no limitations, no pre-requisites, no pre-determined world, no history, you write your own. Just...freedom.
That's my two cents anyhow.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didnt exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Actually, I think starman is right. Ppl lvl to be the best. They go all hardcore, selfish, n play jus to be richerhigher lvletter than other ppl.
I... could nvr force myself to do that. I always play games to be the crafter type, only becuz thats wat I like to do in games. Being the highest lvl in a game doesnt really interest me. Being able to make cool items, being respected as a crafter rader (even tho my combat is usually REALLY low), was the only thing I could really get into.
But, in most games, you MUST have high combat lvl to have high crafting lvls. I guess thats fairly realistic, at least from the economic standpoint. Crafting is expensive to lvl, usually. If its not, then it usually isnt worth it to craft :S But if its expensive to lvl it, how is a low combat lvl character supposed to craft? Theyre not. Theyre forced to lvl 1st, so they can make money to fund crafting, which will make them money later on. Heh.