1. several zones that are 'dead' content wise. Azshara being one of them. Yeah the art was good but there was nothing to do in that zone!
2. Basically have a lock on content as Naxx 1.0 is the last raid.
3. No Blood elves or Draenei
4. Same old dead level zones in the 20-30, aka 'the barrens'.
5. No LFD so getting a group means 3 hours setup. Esp if its like BRD. 3 hour setup + 4 hour instance. Grab some food/water/pillow cause you are going to be in here for a while!
I'm not saying go back 6 years, just patch the old content more like it was.
1) Slower leveling, so you can make some friends. How is anyone to make friends when you go from level 24 to level 25 in about 20 minutes ?....Remember when it took a day if you did not know what you were doing and 4 to 6 hours when you did.
Spending more time in a zone made the world the zones more populated, and you would run across others everyday.
2) WoW on rails sounds triable. May as well play Oblivion.
Like I s,y because of RL I can't play as of now. BUT I can't allow curiosity to bring me back knowing it would suck, I have FF14 for that !
I do not follow how 'slower leveling' = more friends.
There is a system already in place to promote more social interaction in WoW; it is called a GUILD.
In the latest expac Blizzard is pushing this aspect fairly strongly with guild perks/exp/talents(!)
Don't just join a guild cause you saw their 'cool tabard' (WoW insider joke :P). Look them up, find out more about them.
Mine was a series of events that got me into a guild with 2-3 RL friends which turned into 6-7 RL friends over 4 years. Living in the same city tends to open that aspect up.
I have one word you on the 'get players to spend more time in a zone', BARRENS. OMG BARRENS! >_<!
There is a demo for Cata so check it out... if you dare! :P
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
1. several zones that are 'dead' content wise. Azshara being one of them. Yeah the art was good but there was nothing to do in that zone!
2. Basically have a lock on content as Naxx 1.0 is the last raid.
3. No Blood elves or Draenei
4. Same old dead level zones in the 20-30, aka 'the barrens'.
5. No LFD so getting a group means 3 hours setup. Esp if its like BRD. 3 hour setup + 4 hour instance. Grab some food/water/pillow cause you are going to be in here for a while!
I'm not saying go back 6 years, just patch the old content more like it was.
1) Slower leveling, so you can make some friends. How is anyone to make friends when you go from level 24 to level 25 in about 20 minutes ?....Remember when it took a day if you did not know what you were doing and 4 to 6 hours when you did.
Spending more time in a zone made the world the zones more populated, and you would run across others everyday.
2) WoW on rails sounds triable. May as well play Oblivion.
Like I s,y because of RL I can't play as of now. BUT I can't allow curiosity to bring me back knowing it would suck, I have FF14 for that !
I do not follow how 'slower leveling' = more friends.
There is a system already in place to promote more social interaction in WoW; it is called a GUILD.
In the latest expac Blizzard is pushing this aspect fairly strongly with guild perks/exp/talents(!)
Don't just join a guild cause you saw their 'cool tabard' (WoW insider joke :P). Look them up, find out more about them.
Mine was a series of events that got me into a guild with 2-3 RL friends which turned into 6-7 RL friends over 4 years. Living in the same city tends to open that aspect up.
I have one word you on the 'get players to spend more time in a zone', BARRENS. OMG BARRENS! >_<!</p>
There is a demo for Cata so check it out... if you dare! :P
</!</p>
<!</p>
<!</p>
See, what your doing is twisting the words around and picking them apart to bend what I'm trying to say to your liking to bash what I'm trying to say...............Obvosily you should be able to see that many are not happy what Blizzard had done with this game.............try reading at least 10 post or more below this one. Somehow MAYBE you missed that the game is going wrong for many. Not all but a lot.
They don't have to put things back EXACTLY THE WAY IT WAS, get it now, understand ? I think it was you maybe not but a few hits back on this post some one sad running back back to quest givers in Duskwood was not good, well they were right fix stuff like this. Stuff that needed fixing could have been done with a Free patch, not a paid expansion !
A paid expensive expansion should have included a new Continent and new Classes, not WoW on rails.
Slower leveling does = friends. Just as often if not more than guilds !..........11 of the 12 million WoW players are not Hardcore, and don't research guilds. Thy pick who ever ask them to join. many stick with ever one they join at level 2 no matter how bad they are..........And yes you know what I'm talking about !
See, what your doing is twisting the words around and picking them apart to bend what I'm trying to say to your liking to bash what I'm trying to say...............Obvosily you should be able to see that many are not happy what Blizzard had done with this game.............try reading at least 10 post or more below this one. Somehow MAYBE you missed that the game is going wrong for many. Not all but a lot.
They don't have to put things back EXACTLY THE WAY IT WAS, get it now, understand ? I think it was you maybe not but a few hits back on this post some one sad running back back to quest givers in Duskwood was not good, well they were right fix stuff like this. Stuff that needed fixing could have been done with a Free patch, not a paid expansion !
A paid expensive expansion should have included a new Continent and new Classes, not WoW on rails.
Slower leveling does = friends. Just as often if not more than guilds !..........11 of the 12 million WoW players are not Hardcore, and don't research guilds. Thy pick who ever ask them to join. many stick with ever one they join at level 2 no matter how bad they are..........And yes you know what I'm talking about !
What is classified as a 'bug' and what is classified as a 'feature'/working as intended can be a subjective call. A call that blizzard has to make which means you are kinda getting Vanilla but not really. What you think should be in this semi-Vanilla version isn't going to suit with another Player that wants 'pure' Vanilla.
Cata is going back to TBC actually which some considers it to be a better exp than Wrath was while making sure they are not making Vanilla.
Vanilla WoW had horrible mechanics like the 'Honor Decay' system. Even Blizzard accepted that it was a bad system and wasn't good for their playerbase.
Changing of guilds happens more often than not unless there are real life stuff involved; RL friends/relatives etc.
I used to manage a semi-large guild (around 250?) back in the day (GL suddenly left for another guild and left me in charge ) and it was normal to have turn-overs/drama. If you have a large number of people; poo poo happens.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Blizzard is great for re-designing WoW with patches. Sometimes there very bold, more so than other mmo's. During the first several years of Vanilla wow it was nice. Patches were REALLY free. " Yes " there still free, but it's more of a set up for the next expansion. Blizzard are masters of giving you a world changing patch yet making it impossible to not buy there expansions.
Question's :
1) I know many people here on mmorpg.com are complaining, making it seem as WoW is going down hill. Is it the same on the official forums ( I'm not playing now because of RL situations, and not liking what I'm reading here ) ?
2) WoW on rails is really scaring me !...........Do you think Blizzard is aware of it, and may do something about it. Do you think Blizzard would patch it back more like vanilla. Or do you think the majority are happy outside these forums ?
I really miss vanilla WoW..... Free to do what you like and make a friend by simply helping them with a hard quest and with no dungeon finder. Sure it was hard to get groups, but it was fun. All guilds were tighter, even the generic guilds. You know, the ones without interviews.
Maybe it's like that old girl friend after a break up, you go back, but it's never the same. It's just hard to admit it's REALLY over !
I wouldn't read into 1 too much. Generally, the people that feel the need to complain make their way to forums. That's pretty much what this website is best for, people to randomly post the things that are pissing them off. The millions that are still enjoying the game are too busy, well, enjoying the game.
On the note of bringing back Vanilla. I wouldn't welcome it. 40 man raids, no thank you. needing the absolute badest gear to perform on most classes (think druid trying to tank), world of roguecraft? No thank you. WoW is a much better game, it's constantly improving. I think what you want back is the days before burn out. It happened to me, but I'm not nostalgic of some 'better time' because it really wasn't better.
To the Rift guy, it'll be the same way it's always been with new games. People will leave at release. Once the new car smell wears off, people will go back, especially considering how similar they play. It was the same thing with Aion. Unless Trion can really make something happen with the rifts and the dynamic content, it won't hold over 500k subs.
This is the point were you stop playing WOW and play another game. Playing a MMO is like being in a relationship once the it changes to where you don't like it...its time to get out. Or you can stay and be unhappy. There are other games that might offer what you are looking for.
This is the point were you stop playing WOW and play another game. Playing a MMO is like being in a relationship once the it changes to where you don't like it...its time to get out. Or you can stay and be unhappy. There are other games that might offer what you are looking for.
And what do you do when you tried them all and it was a terrible experience ?
"You moan on mmporpg.com forums and make that your new mmo home". PvP fun garanteed.
Blizzard is great for re-designing WoW with patches. Sometimes there very bold, more so than other mmo's. During the first several years of Vanilla wow it was nice. Patches were REALLY free. " Yes " there still free, but it's more of a set up for the next expansion. Blizzard are masters of giving you a world changing patch yet making it impossible to not buy there expansions.
Question's :
1) I know many people here on mmorpg.com are complaining, making it seem as WoW is going down hill. Is it the same on the official forums ( I'm not playing now because of RL situations, and not liking what I'm reading here ) ?
2) WoW on rails is really scaring me !...........Do you think Blizzard is aware of it, and may do something about it. Do you think Blizzard would patch it back more like vanilla. Or do you think the majority are happy outside these forums ?
I really miss vanilla WoW..... Free to do what you like and make a friend by simply helping them with a hard quest and with no dungeon finder. Sure it was hard to get groups, but it was fun. All guilds were tighter, even the generic guilds. You know, the ones without interviews.
Maybe it's like that old girl friend after a break up, you go back, but it's never the same. It's just hard to admit it's REALLY over !
The majority of players seem to like a casual game that they can play once in awhile and come back to and not have to figure out how to pick up again. The problem is that they pay the same $15 as you and I do so they are going to get the game they want.
From a business perspective this makes sense as long as their numbers hold true. Other games have come in and tried to get the niche or smaller markets, EVE, Darkfall etc. They have been moderately successful. Given that Blizzard already has the casual players (who use less bandwidth and require less development) who pay $15 a month I don't think they are going to change that formula anytime soon.
I don't see that changing any time soon. You will have to, as someone already suggested, look for another game. People refer to "WoW clones" all the time. It is not that WoW developed all of the ideas in their game, far from it, they just made the pace of reward vs. work more addictive and then added "end game" a whole new level of lever pulling. . once you have invested a tonne of time into your "character". Sort of like if you pay for a ticket and start watching a movie you think sucks. If you can't get your money back you are more likely to stay - because you are invested - even though it would make more sense to just walk out the door and save yourself the time wasted. This would be even more true if you waited in line for 2 hours to watch the movie in the first place (see Phantom Menace)
From the original article:
Recipes
To help drive home the ideas I've discussed, here are some simple formulas of what contingencies to use to achieve specific results. These are not the only ways to solve these problems, but they are simple, reliable, and very effective.
How to make players play hard. (casual-loot drops / hard -core random Bosses that might spawn) Translated into the language we've been using, how do we make players maintain a high, consistent rate of activity? Looking at our four basic schedules, the answer is a variable ratio schedule, one where each response has a chance of producing a reward. Activity level is a function of how soon the participant expects a reward to occur. The more certain they are that something good or interesting will happen soon, the harder they'll play. When the player knows the reward is a long way off, such as when the player has just leveled and needs thousands of points before they can do it again, motivation is low and so is player activity.
How to make players play forever (casual - levelling end game PvP / hard-core -end game raiding). The short answer is to make sure that there is always, always a reason for the player to be playing. The variable schedules I discussed produce a constant probability of reward, and thus the player always has a reason to do the next thing. What a game designer also wants from players is a lot of "behavioral momentum," a tendency to keep doing what they're doing even during the parts where there isn't an immediate reward. One schedule that produces a lot of momentum is the avoidance schedule, where the players work to prevent bad things from happening. Even when there's nothing going on, the player can achieve something positive by postponing a negative consequence.
I think the changes were deliberate and based on this.
Bringing back Vanilla would be horrible, I loved vanilla, I have very fond memories, but like everything, only the good things really stuck from vanilla, there were still very horrible things, the really bad itemization, the mad grind for money was insane, ppl farming the plaguelands farms non stop to get cash to buy epic mount etc...
The really badly design dungeons and encounters where you could literally carry 25 ppl and still make the encounters. I think blizzard really missed the trick with world pvp, the pvp in tarren mill was where ppl wanted to be and they could have made it better instead of cutting it off with BG's.
I do not think Cataclsym is for the casual player. Once you hit the end game, if you are not willing to commit mass amounts of time into the game(moreso than ever before) with the new dungeons(a regular normal Cat dungeon takes upwards of 30+ minutes to finish - if all goes good), Halls of Origination is a good example - plan on spending a good hour to run it. Your causal players do not have that kind of time to commit to a game. Once you hit the heroic level of Cat dungeons the time it takes to finish one goes up.
Hour to even two hours was standard time to do dungeons after SM in vanilla and BC.
The dungeons were shortened a little at the start of BC but then you get to places like Shattered Halls, which took a while.
Casuals still played and succeeded. And this is all before LFD tool.
Comments
I do not follow how 'slower leveling' = more friends.
There is a system already in place to promote more social interaction in WoW; it is called a GUILD.
In the latest expac Blizzard is pushing this aspect fairly strongly with guild perks/exp/talents(!)
Don't just join a guild cause you saw their 'cool tabard' (WoW insider joke :P). Look them up, find out more about them.
Mine was a series of events that got me into a guild with 2-3 RL friends which turned into 6-7 RL friends over 4 years. Living in the same city tends to open that aspect up.
I have one word you on the 'get players to spend more time in a zone', BARRENS. OMG BARRENS! >_<!
There is a demo for Cata so check it out... if you dare! :P
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
<!</p>
<!</p>
See, what your doing is twisting the words around and picking them apart to bend what I'm trying to say to your liking to bash what I'm trying to say...............Obvosily you should be able to see that many are not happy what Blizzard had done with this game.............try reading at least 10 post or more below this one. Somehow MAYBE you missed that the game is going wrong for many. Not all but a lot.
They don't have to put things back EXACTLY THE WAY IT WAS, get it now, understand ? I think it was you maybe not but a few hits back on this post some one sad running back back to quest givers in Duskwood was not good, well they were right fix stuff like this. Stuff that needed fixing could have been done with a Free patch, not a paid expansion !
A paid expensive expansion should have included a new Continent and new Classes, not WoW on rails.
Slower leveling does = friends. Just as often if not more than guilds !..........11 of the 12 million WoW players are not Hardcore, and don't research guilds. Thy pick who ever ask them to join. many stick with ever one they join at level 2 no matter how bad they are..........And yes you know what I'm talking about !
</!</p></!</p>
What is classified as a 'bug' and what is classified as a 'feature'/working as intended can be a subjective call. A call that blizzard has to make which means you are kinda getting Vanilla but not really. What you think should be in this semi-Vanilla version isn't going to suit with another Player that wants 'pure' Vanilla.
Cata is going back to TBC actually which some considers it to be a better exp than Wrath was while making sure they are not making Vanilla.
Vanilla WoW had horrible mechanics like the 'Honor Decay' system. Even Blizzard accepted that it was a bad system and wasn't good for their playerbase.
Changing of guilds happens more often than not unless there are real life stuff involved; RL friends/relatives etc.
I used to manage a semi-large guild (around 250?) back in the day (GL suddenly left for another guild and left me in charge ) and it was normal to have turn-overs/drama. If you have a large number of people; poo poo happens.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
1.6 million subs/boxes by launch - guaranteed.
This is the point were you stop playing WOW and play another game. Playing a MMO is like being in a relationship once the it changes to where you don't like it...its time to get out. Or you can stay and be unhappy. There are other games that might offer what you are looking for.
And what do you do when you tried them all and it was a terrible experience ?
"You moan on mmporpg.com forums and make that your new mmo home". PvP fun garanteed.
The majority of players seem to like a casual game that they can play once in awhile and come back to and not have to figure out how to pick up again. The problem is that they pay the same $15 as you and I do so they are going to get the game they want.
From a business perspective this makes sense as long as their numbers hold true. Other games have come in and tried to get the niche or smaller markets, EVE, Darkfall etc. They have been moderately successful. Given that Blizzard already has the casual players (who use less bandwidth and require less development) who pay $15 a month I don't think they are going to change that formula anytime soon.
To try to capture the "hard core" players they have added ranked arenas, harder heroic dungeons etc. All they do is add timesink - look grinds. They take the same dungeon the casuals play and change a boss or two etc. It is a cheap way to keep those (see Skinner Box Article - http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html)
I don't see that changing any time soon. You will have to, as someone already suggested, look for another game. People refer to "WoW clones" all the time. It is not that WoW developed all of the ideas in their game, far from it, they just made the pace of reward vs. work more addictive and then added "end game" a whole new level of lever pulling. . once you have invested a tonne of time into your "character". Sort of like if you pay for a ticket and start watching a movie you think sucks. If you can't get your money back you are more likely to stay - because you are invested - even though it would make more sense to just walk out the door and save yourself the time wasted. This would be even more true if you waited in line for 2 hours to watch the movie in the first place (see Phantom Menace)
From the original article:
Recipes
To help drive home the ideas I've discussed, here are some simple formulas of what contingencies to use to achieve specific results. These are not the only ways to solve these problems, but they are simple, reliable, and very effective.
How to make players play hard. (casual-loot drops / hard -core random Bosses that might spawn) Translated into the language we've been using, how do we make players maintain a high, consistent rate of activity? Looking at our four basic schedules, the answer is a variable ratio schedule, one where each response has a chance of producing a reward. Activity level is a function of how soon the participant expects a reward to occur. The more certain they are that something good or interesting will happen soon, the harder they'll play. When the player knows the reward is a long way off, such as when the player has just leveled and needs thousands of points before they can do it again, motivation is low and so is player activity.
How to make players play forever (casual - levelling end game PvP / hard-core -end game raiding). The short answer is to make sure that there is always, always a reason for the player to be playing. The variable schedules I discussed produce a constant probability of reward, and thus the player always has a reason to do the next thing. What a game designer also wants from players is a lot of "behavioral momentum," a tendency to keep doing what they're doing even during the parts where there isn't an immediate reward. One schedule that produces a lot of momentum is the avoidance schedule, where the players work to prevent bad things from happening. Even when there's nothing going on, the player can achieve something positive by postponing a negative consequence.
I think the changes were deliberate and based on this.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Bringing back Vanilla would be horrible, I loved vanilla, I have very fond memories, but like everything, only the good things really stuck from vanilla, there were still very horrible things, the really bad itemization, the mad grind for money was insane, ppl farming the plaguelands farms non stop to get cash to buy epic mount etc...
The really badly design dungeons and encounters where you could literally carry 25 ppl and still make the encounters. I think blizzard really missed the trick with world pvp, the pvp in tarren mill was where ppl wanted to be and they could have made it better instead of cutting it off with BG's.
Hour to even two hours was standard time to do dungeons after SM in vanilla and BC.
The dungeons were shortened a little at the start of BC but then you get to places like Shattered Halls, which took a while.
Casuals still played and succeeded. And this is all before LFD tool.
Playing: EvE, Warhammer free unlimited trial, Allods Online
Played: Anarchy Online, WoW, Warhammer, AoC, Ryzom. Aion
Strongly Recommend: Ryzom, EvE, Allods Online