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Clones, clones, and more clones
Otoan
Member UncommonPosts: 17
Why is it that not one developing team can come out with something unique combat wise? Why is it that every single game is the same tab target, autoattacking game that is used in every mainstream MMO out there? Why would I play your turd game when I could play WoW? If you play WoW's game and try to make 'WoW combat with different features' you're always going to lose because blizzard will watch your progress and come out with features of their own that competes with yours.
Why does noone get this but indy companies like Mortal Online or Darkfall? Why can't we have a sandbox game developed by a big company instead of these fail companies that have these 'diamonds in the rough' game but not a big enough developing team to make them amazing.
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Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
EQ was the worst thing that ever happened to the MMORPG industry.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
I suspect it's because the "We want a sandbox permadeath full loot blah blah blah..." crowd are in fact a fairly tiny minority in the grand scheme of things, so all "the big boys" like Blizzard, EA, Sony, etc have looked at it and come to the conclusion there is no money in it.
If the time comes when there is some money in it, one of them will wade in there with a triple A title, until then you are stuck with the little start up companies doing it unfortunately. Indy companies are taking a risk at carving out a niche because there is no point in taking on the likes of Blizzard.
Ascension - EU Mature, Friendly, Laid Back SW:TOR Guild now recruiting.
How can you say that one of the innovators of the modern MMORPG is the worse to ever happen. It's like says that UO was a tragic error. Without EQ / UO you would still be playing MUDS.
I'm sure the OP is subscribed to and supporting those games that consider innovative, right?
Or is he having this little rand, while playing the same combat system he professes he dislikes?
From a ranger perspective, EQ did it better than WoW anyway. example: My arrows could be blocked and body blocked in EQ. Trees didn't stop me from shooting, I just hit trees. Even though targeting was mandatory. I could target something behind a wall and shoot mobs inbetween me and my target at 0 range, instead of auto switching to melee. Party members could get hit by my arrows, they didn't hurt, but I still didn't hit my target cause their body was in the way. Not so in WoW.
ps. fear the EQ brownies. >.<
add: For the OP. Do some research.
Fact: there are games out there that have different combat than WoW. Both out already, and coming out.
I shouldn't have to name them as you'd probably find atleast 1 within 5 minutes. {Mod Edit}
NCSoft's Lineage developed almost completely independent of EQ / UO which in turn gave rise to every Korean grinder ever made. So if there was no EQ / UO then most likely we would all be playing AION or similar clones.
TERA in philosophy is a more direct descendant of Lineage than Aion. Aion is Korea's take on the western approach of things. I should mention that I like Aion and looking forward to TERA.
Maybe because ppl (players) simply like it and want it.
Like in other game genres is not same. FPSers have same mehanics for more then decade.... RTS also... adventure games also... so on... Excepts graphics and sometimes some (minor) changes that games are all basically same in their mehanics (inside their genre).
But, can you please describe or point to some game which have unique combat mehanics? I mean, how that work?
DDO, AoC and Terra all try a differant take. I prefer that pace of combat, but you dont find it in MMO's much.
WoW has more gold farmers than MO and DF have paying customers....what a win for them, good thing they get it!
So glad WoW was the first MMO ever, and never took anything from anyone else, especially their playing world/classes, it's so original too....
The problem is money, I like/prefer good sandbox games, but its not the majority of players, it's a hard sell to get a investors money, when you are targeting a minority of players. I am waiting on a good sandbox, and been waiting for a long time...I passed on the hack/cheat/dupe fests that you mentioned earlier. 'Getting' it, doesn't mean it's good.
Wow is a clone turd imo, using your verbage, I would rather play UO/VG than it, especially since I wasn't impressed with its beta, and I read non-stop how that was it's golden age. I wish it luck though, in keeping all its subs, I find a lot of its players that seem to think WoW was the first MMO obnoxious, and tire of hearing about WoW, and what WoW has and does, when they are commenting on every other game out....If it's so great, then yeah, you'd be crazy to leave...Don't be crazy!...Thats just...crazy!!!
Developers and gamers are far from businessmen, so they can't create a business plan or sell an idea to investors for shit.
They go:
Dev: "it will be sandbox, have XYZ features, will be unique and...".
Investor: "Yeh, and that will make me a return how?"
Dev: "erm, we will patch it and make it awesome over time, the crafting and..."
"..crafting? is this not a game? Look, these are the biggest on the market *shows pie chart*, do like this"...
Even Richard Garriott, the dev veteran and millionaire of MMO world flopped a big one, because he went for his vision instead of the winning formula. Until a big powerhouse tries out something new and makes it appeal to all playstyles and demographics, WoW is how it is going to stay. And i don't blame them.
Fixed....
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Developers still don't understand that if people want to play something like WoW, they will most likely PLAY WoW. We keep getting all these clones offering nothing new outside of 1 or 2 tiny features or modifications of the WoW formula, then they wonder why a year later they are near closing down and going F2P.
The reason WoW is such as success has more do with the property the game is based on and the developers behind said game, who shit out million-selling PC titles like nobody's business. SWTOR will do alright, but again, it will be more because of the SW license than for any WoW copycat features.
If any developer out there is aiming and hoping to make their own WoW 2, then they have already failed.
Because every game that has copied WoW's combat has been a great success. Aion, warhammer online, this rift that's coming out. Nothing can be a WoW killer when it takes their combat.
How do these pie charts know that a good sandbox wouldn't make them a lot of money? Has there been a big release of a sandbox since UO and SWG that wasn't made by an indy company with 30 people on their roster?
Yes WoW has more gold farmers than Darkfall and Mortal Online has players. That's also because WoW has more employees working on one server than Darkfall and Mortal Online have on their payroll.
There might be small changes in combat made but it's still the same fundamental thing. You tab to target an opponent and then you start autoattacking and you press 0-9 to use some spell or skill.
Saying that SWTOR and GW2 will do better than Tera is a ridiculous statement. One is a sequel to a popular MMO that has the unique feature of having no monthly subscription. The other is Star Wars themed and made by a company that has made very popular Star Wars games. Tera will still have a good population because it's something new and innovative.
There is a huge playerbase for sandbox games and if a big company sunk their teeth on it and did it right it could make them a lot of revenue. Trying to suck off the WoW tittie is only goign to get you so far.
This point bears repeating. When the only sandbox efforts you see are from broke ass indie developers (no offense), is it any small surprise that sandbox mmo's are absent these Top Subscribed lists? The only one you can argue that was a solid effort, HAS HAD solid success, that honor belongs to EVE Online, which is actually 3rd in North America for MMO's with a monthly fee.
That is why I am so excited about ArcheAge. Finally an attempt at a sandbox mmo with millions of funding and tons of devs, the likes which are usually only reserved for WoW clone failures.
Tab target is the only true way to play these games and I wouldn't have it any other way. Games like darkfall are FPS-style games and do not follow the usual rolls of the dice to determine hits and misses. Tab targetting makes perfect sense to use in all cases as it most closely mimicks how we normally would focus and change attention to people or objects in RL.
Darkfall games are too twitchy and are negatively impacted by latency differences which is a constant that will always exist with the current technology until the speed of light changes.
I would argue with the OP that MMOs have in fact done everything in their power to make combat unique and different in their MMO to varying degrees of success. I have seen turn-based, party-activated combos, directional attacks, spellweaving, aim-to-shoot, etc. I bet you can't name two games that use the same exact combat system.
@OP:
But what about DCU and Global Agenda? (and the handful of similar games)
If you don't want to play clones, why are you choosing to play the clones?
It's like you're the guy who wants desert, but hates icecream because it's cold and he's lactose intolerant -- but rather than ordering something completely different the guy keeps trying different types of icecream to try to satisfy his desire for a good desert. Stop buying icecream!
Innovation happens, 80% of innovative ideas fail, and big companies take the remaining 20% and turn them into blockbuster games.
APB innovated with a budget.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Developers are mostly girl panted pansy men is why!
(Taunting them may work...)
The King doubts it.
what I find amazing is that the industry has gotten our view of MMOs so limited that we assume combat is a requirement to begin with.
By now we could have had Mystery Solvers MMOs. Old westerns, modern day etc etc etc. but instead we have copy from MMO previous years but with realm vs realm and we think its a revolution in gaming.
Intresting factoid, cost for 30min sitcom? 1 million dollar. Cost of a video game? 10million. Can you imagine what this media would be like if as many people played as people watch TV? holy mother!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
For me the combat system is seconday no matter how good it is (wows is by far the best and most fluid combat system of its kind I ever played and I wouldn't really care if every mmo on the market used it tbh because its really good) its not what makes a MMO into an MMO.
I see the "cloning" in a different area and well I already made a post about it on another forum so I'm just going to quote myself.
[quote]Almost every single MMO that is released or going to be released follows an identical core design philosophy you could call it "wow clone" although it doesn't exactly portray what I mean and wow wasn't the first.
What I mean is the basic formula of "endless" tiered progression through gear.
You level up to max level you do some dungeons then you do some raids then you wait for the next raid to come all in the name of upgrading the numbers.
Or in the case of PvP, PvP your eyes out in whatever form the game does pvp usually very unbalanced mainly due to gear differences until you got the best gear and can finally own the nubs in green gear like you were once until a new tier of pvp gear is released and you gotta do it all over again.
I recently got DC which is completely different from wow but at the same time so similar in fact identical in regards to all I wrote above.
And now it's basically all I see in these kinds of mmo's a giant never ending gear grind and it's sorta killing my interest of playing regardless of the quality of the content[/quote]