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Darkfall Online: looking for hope
mm0wiggins
Member Posts: 270
OK, yet again, I've cancelled my Darkfall account after a very short stint into reactivation.
I want to love this game soooooo bad because it has all the right ingredients for me. BUT....
As shameful as it is for me to admit, the combat just KILLS it for me. I feel pretty shallow about this being a gamebreaker for me, especially since I've posted on multiple occasions how MMO's need to concentrate on more than just the combat.
Call me hypocrite, I'll accept it.
That doesn't change the fact that the combat in this game just bothers the living hell out of me. It feels like counterstrike where everyone moves around too fast and bunny hops constantly. I feel so childish when I engage in battle because i feel like i'm playing a "whack-the-mole" facebook game or something. I've tried melee combat, ranged(bows), and magic users and the best experience for me was the melee combat, but it still left me wanting.
I literally frown when I use magic spells... and when I try to prove to myself that I'm just not giving it enough of a chance by watching higher skilled players on youtube, I'm even more discouraged, because it simply doesn't look that interesting. Looks like a bunch of hands moving around in front of you, aimlessly and without function.
Not to mention that the amount of scripting/macroing going on disgusts me. It's a PvP game, so that means you play to be competitive... which means, in practice, you are no competition for anyone that's "cheated" unless you also "cheat" .
Bad system imo.... that's too bad, cause I love everything else about the game other than those 2 killer points. (combat and macroing/skillups)
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Anyone playing Mortal Online that has something constructive to say about it? It seems like Darkfall with better graphics and a crappier network infrastructure to me. I would love to be wrong. Perhaps I'll give it a shot?
I currently play EVE, so any suggestions that aren't themepark games or arena/battleground based instanced minigames are welcome.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
Comments
Well one of your two problems is being worked on: skill gains will go up ingame and through meditation this Friday. Meditation costs will also be reduced and more skills added. Stats will be added to meditation in the future. I personally think skill gains are already pretty fast, but I know I'm in the minority.
Personally I think that combat needs some balancing in order to see more variety (like people using more schools of magic and viable melee/archery roles), but I don't think that changes on the scale you would like to see will be forthcoming. Although the GUI revamp should help with some of this stuff; like hopefully being able to hold down left mouse and continuously melee attack. However, I like some of the combat mechanics like bunny-hopping and I don't think that the general nature of combat will be changing anytime soon.
Steam: Neph
Thanks for the info and the reply.
I think I'm just going to wait for a/the next expansion to see what they bring to the table. No offense to the devs or anyone playing it, but DF has simply dropped the ball too many times for me to give them more money... yet.
I haven't invested anything into Mortal, so perhaps that will be my next let down. But I must say, considering I don't mind the clipping bugs, I think it 'looks' great. But I haven't talked to enough people who have actually played it, sadly.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
Feel free to play what you want, but I'd steer clear of MO personally. Here's a thread from 1/24/11 - http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/361/view/forums/thread/304606/Patch-is-fail-down-for-over-a-day.html
Here's a thread from tonight: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4039397/thread/304872#4039397
I know for people that want a good sandbox there aren't a lot of options now =(
Steam: Neph
1. if you dont like darkfall combat I dont think you will like mortal online to be honest.
2. I do hope you got a few basic lessons from someone at least to the point to know how to use the UI a bit. I say that because getting everything setup makes the experience much better.
3. I would love to see turned based combat in a game. I love turn based in pen and paper and I loved playing turned based with Silent Storm (single player game) turned based combat is an entiretly different (naturally) but adds level of game play that is not possible in real time.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
LOL I just read that bottom thread, and watched the video. Quite amusing, the sword-owned horse, and the shark-horse that swam up through the ground... *grin*
That taken into account, it doesn't look half as bad as Earthrise, and I am even open minded for that craptastic looking game. I still think MO looks impressive, and the sandbox-ness of it (from what I read) is right up my alley.
The fact is, just like you said, there aren't a lot of good sandbox options. Eve is great, I've loved it for years... but that's just it. I've played it for YEARS. I don't plan on leaving it, because I enjoy many aspects of it, however Eve allows me to have the time to play other games if I want to, without the feeling of "oh I'm getting left behind because I'm not logged in for 12 hours a day" and quite frankly, I'm ready for some more sandboxing outside of just being a ship.
I'm very very picky about fantasy games, since I think they're played out... I'm bored of the holy trinity... so some might say I just need to take a break from MMO's but I think there's GOT TO BE something out there that I find fresh and enjoyable, long enough to get me through the time in between upcoming titles.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
Making a really fun combat system is the hardest thing in any MMO, I would say no one really succeded with that yet.
The combination strategy, player skill and character skill is really hard to combine, particularly in a fun way.
I would wait for World of darkness online (CCP) and Bethesdas MMO, even though trying MO can't hurt. I am really looking forward to see what CCP can bring for the combat of WoDO, and merging with White wolf is a great idea, that should give use the perfect mix between sandbox and lore.
Yup. go CCP :-)
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
Hrmm . ... thats something that surprises me whenever I hear it. Don't like Darkfall's combat. Just Wow. At a loss for words because I have never played an MMORPG with funner combat. It allows me to enjoy both the PVE and PVP so much more than any other RPG. The Elder Scroll Series used to be my favorite games until I found Darkfall. The mobs to fight and other people to compete with blows those games out of the water though imo.
I hated this game at first as well though.
I was annoyed by several things that I later fell in love with.
Give this game a chance! It gets much funner when you have more unlocked and feel complete with the controls. It can take several months of active play to even begin to tap into the fun that I have every time that I log in. Every single MMORPG out there has terrible combat compared to Darkfall imo. I cannot even log into other games anymore . ... unless I need to repair my ego for a few minutes break lol
You sir have no idea what you are missing. You think that you have played and that you know DFO combat, but I question whether or not you actually do if you consider MO instead . .. might be a matter of taste but I have never found anything that even remotely compares.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
I'd like to sit this guy behind me irl to check out what Darkfall is like when I play . .. fun combat system has definitely been discovered. My controls are sooo badass I cannot even put it into words . ... if AV can revamp the UI so that others get to experience what I do more people will get to know the funnest MMORPG combat system in existence so far.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
That is one issue I have with Darkfall. Sid thinks it is "fun" and it is. You mentioned bunny hopping etc. Everyone launching and using spells while swinging a sword and using heavy armour. . or say running. . jumping. . spinning around in the air to shoot a bow while still travelling forward etc.
Those things bother me a lot as well.
MO combat sounds like what you want. If they get it working. And if they get it working right and then don't wreck it. I like the combat in MO because it is more "realistic" you end up with players who are either archers, mages or melee characters but not all three (or they suck at all 3). This is due to the skill cap.
Having said all of that. I have played and do play both. I want to like mortal online but I do enjoy Darkfall more despite the Tank/mage problem. MO is just too unpredictable in development, patches etc. If you have the cash to burn try it out. You will enjoy it for the first month for sure. .
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
OP
I know exactly how you feel. I thought DF had the same addictive appeal that EvE had when I started playing it as well. I played it for about 9 months, and I just couldn't stomach the bunnyhopping, side strafeing, nonsense anymore. I liked the "openness" of the world, the clan oriented pvp, the mounts, the crafting, all of it. I worked tirelessly, along with my clanmates to build our city from nothing to a fully functional city.
I would agree with Loke666, watch for CCP's next game/project World of Darkness. I too am getting bored with EvE, so I recently d/l the PotBS and am giving it a try. Not a lot of choices. I have not bothered with MO as it just has to many problems to bother. I hope they get it together, b/c sandbox games are a rare thing. Well...good ones.
Good luck in whatever you find.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
I dont link melee in darkfall at all its like a CS knife fight but not on a level playing field (Which is fine since this is an RPG not an FPS)... But I just dont like the melee dance that is just timing / twitch skill / and your FPS,, there is no skill with regards to blocking, parrying, counter striking or swordplay other than ..... Vertical swing..... Horisontal swing (Which is a toggle ffs) add to that the abilitys are just AOE attack / Power attack / Knock back / and siege is it.... knockback and siege are just pointless since they dont effect mobs and using them in pvp is unlickly.
The magic / range systems are all about kiting the enermy which is fine but you need to have spells to knock enermys up or get away from them (thusly making you not competative without them)... A good mage can juggle you with fireballs and hit you with rays and keep you blinded till your dead.
All that said.. DF is about group play and siege warfare... Where df is fun is when your in a group, if your well organised and work together you can do some good things in df..
Also with the new increased skill gains hopfully grinding up your spells / skills wont be such a scary task..
I agree with he OP in the way that combat is pretty silly really.
Two warriors in full chainmail jumping 5 feet in the air and sprinting around each other in circles going yarr! , Yarr! hoaaarr! is a huge immersion breaker for me.
When I joined at launch , I was hoping for a slower , more tactical combat process - I suppose a bit more like mount and blade .
but then , I suppose they have to dumb it down for the masses - certain types of players would maybe get bored of slower, more drawn out battles.
I suck at that style of PVP , Im not quick enough and I cant take it seriously enough to want to learn.
but I do like the PVE/gathering/crafting/sneaking side of it - I still like to gank the odd afk'er , or steal mounts etc , or just go out collecting loot.
I just resubbed as I am eager to try out the improved skill gain - there is something about this game that makes me resub every now and again - lets see how long i last this time..
Thanks all, for the informative replies.
I too find that there's always something that makes me want to resub DF, just like EVE. (although, I only rage quitted eve over the years because I made bad choices and suffered huge losses. I've learned from my mistakes now
*resubbed*)
Anyways, I'm going to look into the skill gains more, and see if perhaps that might make the progression more of something I can stomache. Dunno if that will help in the combat dept at all for me, though. But I do agree that twitch based combat is more 'fun' and interesting than autoswings, at least after 10 years of playing autoswing mmo's. There's definitely something to be said about change of pace. But yeah, the silliness of the combat pace in DF does truely take the emersion aspect away from me.
I think this weekend I'll try MO to see how 'bad' it really is. That way, I have a point of comparison.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
Nobody uses an aimbot in this game though. I've seen people try to but lol its pretty fail because of the exact things that you people do not like that you mentioned like the side-strafe, zig-zag sprint, bunny-hop. Relying on player-skill over an aimbot is pretty nice.
Every single time that I have ever died in Darkfall I knew and saw how it was my fault. I cannot say that about most other games. Usually I die in other games just from being the wrong class who is at the wrong place at the wrong time . .. or rock, paper, scissors gameplay or something similar that I have no control over.
If they did make this game have more realistic momentum and stuff than it would be much easier to use an aimbot to win it for you.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
I'm sorry, but I think this is a pretty weak justification for having a silly, sluggish, half-a$$ed fps combat engine. Even if that is 'the reason' for it functioning the way it does, why does it always have to be the extremes when people try to defend a flaw in MMO's? In this case, why does it have to be "well people will cheat with an aimbot if you don't allow bunny hopping and movement spam" -- What's wrong with finding a different means to thwart against aimbots and cheats? Where does it say "the only way to keep people from aimbotting is to make our combat/movement system feel like a circus in fast forward"
Also, since when does spamming spacebar (bunnyhopping) count as player 'skill" ? that's actually just deft player input. I don't have to even look at my screen and I can spam spacebar and in tern, be virtually unkillable. What skill did I use? It takes more skill to write a script for an aimbot, sir.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
At first you will think it is bad. . . push yourself through that. . . then you will love it. . . if you like to explore anyway. . . then you will hate it again.
A quick note though. . if the combat seems slow at first it is because your skills are low. . you will also walk slowly. These things speed up. Spend a few hours chopping trees or mining to get some quick stat gains (and some cash) then go hunting.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Sid,
I agree with almost all of your posts here. I respect your opinion of DF as you obviously are currently playing the game as it was intended and enjoying it. I absolutely agree it would be much easier to aimbot for the reasons you stated. Speaking directly to the "jump" feature...it must stay in. Games w/o the ability to jump are fail nonsense. If my opinion mattered, I would start by SLOWING the whole thing down. Leave in the side strafing, bunny hopping, whatever...but increase the stamina for that by X10 fold or something. If you want to jump-cast, sprint zig-zag around, you'll be out of endurance in about say...1 min.
All of this would lead to the follow...when you spot reds while gathering or our looking for trouble...you now THINK before you do something. DF became a key-bind mashing, chaotic love fest, when in reality...it should be a bit more planned. I always thought the failure of DF was the ability to "select" your engagements. Mounts should provide stamina free movement, not constant sprinting.
Slowing the game down or at least making the choices you make come at an increased cost, you would see more sword/board, more "time" spent engaging and not a wild swinging, bar room brawl that you see now. If you run into reds in a dungeon or if you board a boat, that's where you should see the type of battle that you current see in DF.
Out in the open, the pell mell, swing, swing, swing, jump, stafe, jump- cast, sprint, swing nonsense looks garish and cartoony. I always thought the dark or dangerous side of DF was one of it's biggest draws. Melee combat specifically was the biggest offender. Casting, archery and riding mounts looked good. I guess it was just me and a few others. I do miss DF though, I was in a good clan and we accomplished alot.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
I like your approach here, and I've talked about this amongst my friends before. The idea of simply penalizing an over-use of a jump action would (imo) promote a more tactical and thoughtful combat encounter.
I think I read somewhere before FFXIV launched that Square was planning on implementing the use of jumping, but making it take more frames of animation than usual AND use up a resource, such as HP or stamina, so that bunny-hopping would be less desirable. We obviously see now that the idea went nowhere, as FFXIV has no jump feature at all. Personally, being a FFXI veteran, I don't mind this too much, but I do agree with most that it feels limiting especially if you consider how many invisible walls there are within the terrain. Would be nice to just jump up those 6inch ledges instead of walking 50ft around them.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
Have you ever played Darkfall?
{Mod Edit}
Darkfall is not for everyone, The developers made the game to only be for a Niche player group. That niche is Twitch Gamers with fast wrists and hand eye coordination. THAT IS PLAYER SKILL.
Being able to pinpoint your mouse click on a specific PIXEL, in under .01 seconds. Then do it again on another pixel in under .5 seconds.
That is player skill, that is twitch. That is darkfall.
{Mod Edit}
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If you are in a heated battle and you are jumping all of the time, you will be out of stamina in no time, especially if you are taking some shots. Not to mention that jumping in pvp is the last thing you want to do because it is 100% easier to hit you than sprinting side to side.
{Mod Edit}
I have played Darkfall. and it looks like YOU haven't read my posts, because I've mentioned that I played it. Many times.
And yes, I understand and agree that twitch based mouse precision takes skill... but I wasn't talking about twitch based mouse precision, was I. I was talking about bunny hopping, and spamming your strafe buttons so that your character moves around like it's in a Charlie Chaplin film.
{Mod Edit}
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
Spamming spacebar will make you lose all of your stamina. Everytime that you hit a spacebar you lose stamina and that is why you cannot make macros bunny-hop for you as far as I know unless you don't mind losing all of your stamina almost instantly.
: )
I want the new archery/melee skills!!! grr sick of waiting lol
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
This is the number one reason I can't play the game. When players and mobs can move and change direction without loseing any momentum then something isn't right.
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The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
Darkfall imo has the best combat system i ever used in an mmo....It lacks personality but i always seen it as a next gen combat system that has to be built upon and improved...
Adding momentum to player movement would be great...adding prestige classes that would make casting certain spells for that class possible with a melee weapon could spice up the melee combat...personally i love the DCU melee system to some extent and think it would be great for darkfall...Not the actual combos but giving left and right mouse click 2 different melee actions and then giving 2 seperate actions when you hold left or right mouse click.
I unsubed after a brief return myself but not due to the combat system which i do agree is kinda bland....