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IS GW2 really the same as the rest?
mainvein33
Member Posts: 406
Going trough a lot of post making speculations about GW2 which ranged from how it will be a success to how it will fail to how it will KIll WoW etc etc. I began to wonder if GW2 can be lumped in with the rest of the MMORPGs we see released or nearing release. Now many have down played this fact but GW2 (like GW) is just a box with no sub. From the time I played GW to now I remember always having a mmo I subbed while I played GW so it never really had any major effect on if I kept a sub with another title or not. Another thing for me is leveling now ArenaNet has stated the leveling curve is pretty much a straight horizontal line not much unlike GW which could see you at 20 in 1 days time. This alone makes it much different then most mmos out there. Now GW2 has limited skills like GW not really the same you can see that here but limited none the less very unlike most current mmos.
I am not saying any of this is good or bad about any of these differences and I dont mean for the post to sound that way. What I mean is imho GW2 like GW seems like it will exist in its own rather large market among mmos with its own fanbase demographics all to itself. One poster i read someplace called it the 800lb gorilla in the room along with swtor. to me I still see it as a 800lb gorilla but I see it in a different room with the only person in their being GW.
Comments
I agree 100%. I'm REALLY looking forward to it... but some people are making it out to be the holy grail of MMO's which I think is just not (or EVER) going to happen. Alot of people are going to be in for a rude awakening.
Still probably going to be a great game though :-)
I approve of this thread.
I think it is easy to get caught up in hype. GW2 will be a mmorpg with some things different to the big mmorpgs of today. All games get old after a while and with the amount of things Arenanet is trying to do differently, I'm sure there will be dissapointment in some areas.
Leveling in GW2 will take longer than in GW tho.
Partially agree partially disagree. It's true gw2 will be in a class of it's own but it's for too different from gw1 to be considered only to be in that class. Reason being gw1 was and is totally different to the vast majority of "mmo's". Even if you made gw1 p2p it still wouldn't be in the same class as most mmo's. B2p is the biggest similarity between the 2 games apart from that their totally different. GW2 is fundamentally an mmo and will provide a massively multiplayer experience like other mmo's and this experience will still cost money just in a different pricing method. Gw1 was essentially the same as buying a Coop Rpg along side your p2p mmo. GW2 is buying another mmo.
People who try to say gw2 won't compete with Swtor, WoW etc forget one very important point. GW2 will rely on full regular full priced expansions not just the initial sales. Sure some people may buy gw2 and stay subbed to another mmo but will they really pay for full priced expansions (which come out faster than most mmo expansion) and maybe dlc as well as subbing to another mmo and buying their expansions. Unless you have the money or plan to stop buying gw2 expansions (essentially the same as unsubbing). A choice must be made. Sure more people are likely to buy all the expansions of gw2 and sub to another than sub to two mmo's but they'll still be a large amount that won't. So saying that gw2 won't compete with swtor and Wow means your not seeing the bigger picture. The competition is still there just in a slightly different form and with more people able to enjoy both.
Gotta agree with this thread. I generally don't believe in the whole "GW2 is the next WoW killer" or how it's the "Messiah" of the Fantasy MMO genre. I just think it's a game that has already attracted a lot of warranted attention for being different & will attract a lot more, once the marketing kicks in. Also without any subs, there's no major financial barrier preventing anyone like me from buying the box.
Let's just hope they don't take too long to release it... before the hype dies down.
I hope they prioritize putting time into balancing the gameplay before early release, they seem to have a marketing-team with a plan to release information on the professions depending on how much time they need to develop. Who knows tho, maybe they will fail to keep the hype up in the case they need more time.
Well true, I'd rather they provide us with as much content as they possibly can at launch and make sure said content is balanced. That is more important than pushing it out the door early, like most MMO developers tend to do. I'm looking at you Square Enix & the now late Realtime Worlds.
Oh well, I guess I've got LOTRO to keep me occupied but the grind is killing me. Problem is, I've gotta grind in that game in order to play it for free (>_<). Something that GW2 will save me from.
Its an MMO, it's defined by the genre which only allows a certain amount of flexibilty. I agree with this post, I thinks its going to be agreat game but it won't be the major detachment from the genre that most people 'claim' they want.
And then WHY NOT ? if the genre only allows a certain amount of flexibility isn't GW2 the game that looks to push the limits: What other game have done that for a long time ?
1)We have dynamic event that tries to redefine the whole Quest paradigm, aiming at changing the whole felling of imersion in game.
2)We have a new take on combat with fokus on a new trinity, movement, and skillcombos and new ways of looking at healing and death.
3)We have personal story that tries to put "role playing back" in mmoRpg's.
4)We have a WvWvW PvP that put servers up aginst others for a week a time.
5)And then we have a huge peristant world with beatyfull art in a B2P setup.
6)And we have all the clasical virtues from arenanet from Gw1 of no forced grind, equal well organised PvP, Alt and loot friendly play.
.....
From a developer that so far have been able to deliver and keep words and have a huge loyal fangroup because of that, this looks really really good.
if Arenanet can deliver on the 6 things mentioned above on the level they use to do, the whole fantasy MMO genre will have a new set of standards.
And because it is B2P they can even fail a few places and not being top notch and still be able to rock the MMO scene.
So to all you critics where does it looks like they will not deliver?
I am still guarded on the amount of content. But just by watching videos and reading interviews. GW2 is going to be a breath of fresh air in terms of quality. I am more impressed with videos besides the Shatterer. Holy grail? Well I won't give any mmo that title without playing it for months. But there is much potential for this game.
I think alot of people forget that this isent guild wars 1. The persistant world changes it all, basicly because of it it turns the guild wars franchise into what most people see as a 'real mmo'. so basicly loggin in and completing a zone and logging out isent going to realy happen here, the worlds just to large and the setup is diferent from gw1. for those of you that played gw1 while still staying subbed to your other mmo didnt realy have to choose because gw1 was a diferent level of gameplay. But now, were looking at a BTP game with no sub fees, but with the same amount of content (maybe more) and a persistant world, it realy puts it up in the same market as the 'top mmo's' today.
Basicly, because they are making a full blown mmorpg that in some cases could be called better than most PTP games, i think more people are going to have to choose, because not everyone can sit there and log all those hours into two diferent games.. simple as that
I won't pay a subscription fee, and think those who do are nuts. You're just inflating the publishers profits. The box sales paid for maintaining the game. I think Anet does better with microtransactions anyway. I bought every one of them for GW1 except for Character Makeovers.
How do you have time to play more than one game, you don't work or go to school?
I hope it does take longer to level in GW2, I never understood the rush to reach max level.
GW2 is essentially the same as all the rest. I think the only way to truly innovate in the MMO category would be to do like those one guys did and add kinect playability to WoW. Otherwise we'll always be sitting at our computers or consoles since a lot of companies are starting to include them nowadays and be playing a game. What GW2 is doing though is, its taking great ideas from other games and making them better thus delivering a better game experience. I don't understand why people want a "WoW killer" if you don't like WoW don't play it. I played it and got bored with it, and haven't subbed again since. Plus the b2p is really successful for GW and will it be successful for GW2.
I think only those who don't care for GW2 feel that everyone else is expecting it to be a gaming messiah of some sort, or WoW-killer. Frankly, I hope that people who are happy playing WoW continue to pay WoW. Why shouldn't they play what makes them happy?
All I want is a game that promotes story over grind, and a personalized, lived-in experience over ever-increasing carrot-on-stick loot-chasing gameplay.
For that reason, no, GW2 is not "the same as the rest," even if at its most rudimentary level it's still about killing orcs and shooting fireballs in a quasi-European landscape.
Well one unique aspect of GW2 is the no trinity system. I have yet to hear of MMO without trinity.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
A lot read a lot more into this post than what i am really asking but this basically tries to answer what I am proposing.
Now at parts i agree but the unsubing by not buying expansions seems a little forced. Unless GW2 comes out with expansions much faster than GW1 did I doubt many will find themselves saving their 15 a month for them. If you look back at GW1 their are 3 major expansion all released over 3 years April 2005 to August 2007 and while this is faster than the rate than other mmos its hardly bank breaking at rougly 50 dollars a year youd pay $4.17 a month as a sub. Now its true some gamers may see this situation and respond in the manner you suggest (choose one or the other), but likely like GW1 most simply wont and will buy both the expansions and keep subbing. I see your point about this being much more like a traditional mmo vs GW1 but I think likely this wont play out in any form of "big impact" in making a game choice. Since many over these past years have essentially been willing to pay the box cost but quit games 3-6 months basically quiting the sub itself. Likely the box cost for GW2 wont even reflect in the buyer's decision. I do see the big picture but no matter what game play mechanics it boast or how innovative the game is buying GW2 will likely come down to the fact that the B2P model looks like a bargain if you want to keep your raid toon in wow or enjoy swtor or any other new sub mmo. Further more because of the major gaps between expansions likely not many will bother to save up for them the 9 months to a year it will take. What they will likely do with that cash is sub another game. Its funny as different as GW2 seems to GW1 the business model seems exactly the same so I expect that it will be no big surprise when you see swtor and rift try to bleed subs from WoW while GW2 like GW1 has little impact on the rest of the market and still sells 3 million or so boxes first year kinda like how GW1 sold 6 million over the years and few noticed even a ripple.
Even if GW is only "decent" compared to lets say a "decent" Warhammer or "decent" AoC or something, it will still be way better off then those sorts of games. Since those games require monthly fees, people can purchase this game and even if they aren't have the MOST fun in this game and go to something else, they can return at any time.
We very well could see more B2P games, but supported by a "bigger cash shop" then GW2 since so few P2Ps have really done what they were expecting to do.
So the argument here, based on the original post, is that many people played Guild Wars along with whatever subscription based game they love, and that is more than likely how the success of Guild Wars 2 will play out, instead of being this monumental game changer for the MMO genre and the biggest potential WoW killer. It's a fair point, but one that I think is lacking in some context.
Guild Wars was not a true MMO. It was a highly populated CORPG like Phantasy Star Online or the like. It was therefore, not actually competing with other MMOs. Despite the fact that Guild Wars 2 is still a buy-to-play game, it is an MMO in every sense of the word, with a huge persistent free roaming world even more geared towards socializing and community than the original and other MMOs as well. While I'm certain there will be quite a few players who will play Guild Wars 2 along with a subscription MMO like WoW or Rift or SWTOR, that doesn't mean there won't be a potentially HUGE install base that predominantly plays Guild Wars 2 and nothing else. If you have a game, that is exceptionally fun to play in every area, filled to the brim with content that could take months to fully see and experience for the average player, why then would you pay a monthly fee playing another game that is potentially less rewarding or polished or enjoyable?
Even if you don't think Guild Wars 2 will succeed in its attempt to elevate the genre to an entirely new, more enjoyable level, and will instead, only be more of the same, you'd still have potentially masses of people more than willing to drop their subscriptions to play a game that does everything their subscription based game does even if it's only a small improvement, simply because they no longer have to pay a monthly fee. I can't see any reason, whatsoever, other than pure rabid loyalty to their current MMO, to keep Guild Wars 2 from being a phenomenal success, if Arenanet manages to deliver on their promises.
Last thing: I know quite a few diehard WoW players, who are only diehard to WoW because it's the best game out there currently. They are ready to jump ship given the right game. A lot of them will probably pop off to SWTOR and stay there for a few months, possibly even believing that this will be their new home for good, until Guild Wars 2 comes out. They'll maybe pass over it at first, while all of the diehard fans like myself will immediately jump ship. Then, given a few months, word will slowly spread through their forums from stalwart SWTOR/WoW players who have taken the plunge to see what it was like, enticed by the fact that they could try it out without having to pay a subscription. They'll speak of all of the ways the game manages to take the whole love/hate nature inherent to playing MMOs and how it somehow removed most if not all of the hate and then managed to dial up the love even more. At this point, more and more veterans from other MMOs will pick up the game and play, and while some will not find the promised land, most will. To sum up, Guild Wars 2 will have a huge initial splash, though maybe not as big as SWTOR, and then it'll settle for a bit, but slowly, inexorably, it will suck in more and more of the embittered and dejected veterans of other MMOs like the inescapble pull of a black hole, perhaps even one day eclipsing WoW. Again, this is dependent entirely on if Arenanet nails their promises. It's all just my opinion, but I'm very, very confident it will prove itself out.
http://natethegamer.wordpress.com
I believe Guild Wars 2 will be the most distinct of all three upcoming titles, but I still have no reason to believe GW2 will possess the same depth and breadth of content as a P2P MMORPG.
I will most likely pick it up on launch day and play it on the side or in between games like I did the original GW.
That's a valid concern, and one that I think a lot of people who are on the fence or hesitant to buy into the hype have. We won't know for certain till the game comes out, but this one has been built from the ground up as a true MMO, and from everything they have revealed SO far, I don't think this will be an issue (and in typical Arenanet fashion, they only officially reveal features that are working in the game and are already at a high level of quality). Arenanet's whole mission statement for this game is to create an MMO that not only seeks to address many of the failings of the current market, but to surpass them in quality and depth of content as well, all without a monthly fee. Too many people have fallen prey to the belief that this is just not possible, and from past experience this has proven to be true. Arenanet is emphatic that this is not the case and that Guild Wars 2 will change that mentality. If anyone can do it, they can.
http://natethegamer.wordpress.com
I see what your saying. First let me get this out of the way GW2 will most likely suceed whether they deliver or not since boxes at initial release will be the measurement of success and the hype is so high I dont really see how it can fail feasibly (long story short B2P plus hype is a strong business model). Now as far as impacting WoW I just dont see it. If it comes down to the cash since box sales are a cost incurred many times by many mmo vets while they still have their home titles in the wings I cant see it being a subscription canceller for most, While I understand that some may want to jump the WoW ship for a new game I dont see this being the leech. True MMORPG or not gameplay (save the number of skills) is relatively standard across the board (skills on a bar etc). No matter how innovative it is I cant see it pulling people from WoW. The money logic simply inst there. I could see if past mmos suffered from low box sales but that hasnt really been the issue its the subs falling off that sink most ships and simply put that really wont be noticeable here until expansion one comes out. Like i said in my previous post it shoud break down to 4.17 a month as a sub if you wait for the expansion. I dont reasonably see a WoW players with years dedicated to the game cancelling sub over a game that simply put wont hit the pocket hard. GW1 with 6.5 million untis sold likely has a few players from the 12 million WoW subscribers in their ranks.Likely they have faced this before and will follow past decisions. These are big numbers in a market that looks at 500k as a great number. As far as rabid fandom goes i doubt thats the decision making issue however the effort you put into your toon likely is. No one wants to see there 6 year old raiding toon go bye bye in a game that is very much alive over 15 bucks a month they can likely afford along side playing GW2.As far as swtor having a bigger splash maybe in the press but not sales (swtor P2P hits the wallet and is gunning WoW in the press new mmo developer major franchise big expectations list goes on and on It might sell well but very unlikely GW2 numbers) GW2 will likely far out sell them all (them being Rift swtor and any new commers in the next year or so) but wont crush WoWs numbers it may however depending on when it releases kill swtors initial box sales if they release too close together. this is all conjecture based on the history I have seen so far and the most likely path. To be fair once we gain more info through beta, the press, and we get closer to release date announcements the picture will become much clearer.
Holy eyestrain, batman!
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
No, you are wrong. GW1 had only 3 expansions because the chapters got cancelled. The idea was to release an expansion pack every 6 months which was achieved with the first 2 chapters - Factions released in April and Nightfall released in October/November the same year. That's $100 per year. There was going to be a third chapter called Utopia and work was well under way and it was supposed to hit the shelves 6 months after Nightfall but when everybody was expecting them to release info about the new chapter an article came up with the title "Guild Wars Chapter Cancelled, GW2 announced"
The first expansion pack released in 1.5 year time. This was way off their intended schedule because they started work on GW2. This didn't have as much content as the other chapters and was cheaper because it was an expansion pack and not a chapter. It was supposed to bridge the storyline.
If GW1 was never cancelled, we would be looking at 10+ chapters atm. I would assume this is what they will be targeting with GW2.
And I don't think I will have time to play 2 MMOs. Even if I had enough time, I still wouldn't play 2 MMOs. I would rather play 1 MMO and a single player game or some online shooter.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
This. If GW2 is as good as advertised then it will be the only mmo I'll play.
I think this old video - showing two of the developers talk about the dynamic events - gives you a good idea of what is needed to develop a game that does not have questing as a core mechanism.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic