I'm getting very confused about this game. The server status site shows there is a PVE server. But lots of people are asking for a PVE server without PVP. So there is PVP on the PVE server? Just confused.
The pve servers are like wow pve server..You can join warfronts which is like a wow BG , but pvp is strictly optional. It is not forced like pvp servers.
You are right there are no pure PvE server but only hybrid server s and PvP servers. You can flag yourself intentionally or by your own actons, be griefed by PvP players killing your mobs and quest npcs. But benerally these kiddies just want attention if you ignore them they will go look elsewhere for someone to babysit them.
On PvE servers you need to flag yourself as PvP or enter the PvP mini games. Its all consensual PvP so I don't see what the issue is. I have heard you can get flagged for PvP if you do something like buff someone who is flagged, not sure if that is true.
Yes, healing or buffing a flagged person flags you as well. Any other way would have been easily exploitable.
I think the moaning is because people can kill the opposing NPCs in some areas. When this happens you either have to flag yourself and help, or wait for the 2-3 minutes it takes for the NPCs to respawn.
There is open world pvp on ALL servers. The only difference between a pvp and "pve" server is that you must voluntarily flag yourself to participate in pvp on "pve" servers. Pvp is not instanced as in many pve games, there are contested areas of the map, npc killing, inability to group or communicate with the members of the opposite faction and a pvp atmosphere once you reach these zones in your leveling. If your definition of a real pve server is one in which pvp happens in instances and doesn't impact on the pve game in any way this isn't the game for you.
Your mistaken. Those people are asking for a "hardcore pve" server. They want Trion to drop the ability to flag for pvp in the open world. They want the factions to play together and understand eachother. Honestly I think it's dumb.
As long as you've got player hubs offered up as quest targets, you've got a buffet of entertainment for those that enjoy making other people miserable. Trion has a bad case of developer multiple-personality disorder and doesn't seem to know just what Rift is beyond a mishmash of shiny features.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
Originally posted by LordDraekon As long as you've got player hubs offered up as quest targets, you've got a buffet of entertainment for those that enjoy making other people miserable. Trion has a bad case of developer multiple-personality disorder and doesn't seem to know just what Rift is beyond a mishmash of shiny features.
This is going to have minimal impact on the game. I have no proof of this, but judging from all the other games I've played where this is available, it's minimal.
A bigger issue, since there are pvp areas and quests is the faction balance. I don't think this is going to be a big issue for the overall population of the game, but it is going to be an issue for specific shards (unless you can easily switch shards at some point). A few shards will have a population imbalance, and once it's noticed by the general popualation it will spiral out of control (because that's what happens). If you can easily jump shards, it's not really an issue.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Your mistaken. Those people are asking for a "hardcore pve" server. They want Trion to drop the ability to flag for pvp in the open world. They want the factions to play together and understand eachother. Honestly I think it's dumb.
The term dumb is quite subjective. Just as the belief of many players that they don't want to pay to play a game where they have to babysit other peoples children. They simply want a server where they can avoid the loud and visible minority of PvP players that spends their game time screaming for attention by trying to harrass and bother other players.
Your mistaken. Those people are asking for a "hardcore pve" server. They want Trion to drop the ability to flag for pvp in the open world. They want the factions to play together and understand eachother. Honestly I think it's dumb.
The term dumb is quite subjective. Just as the belief of many players that they don't want to pay to play a game where they have to babysit other peoples children. They simply want a server where they can avoid the loud and visible minority of PvP players that spends their game time screaming for attention by trying to harrass and bother other players.
IM sorry but from my experience the Pve raider loot whores are the children in MMOs.
Sure you get certain loud mouth asshats on the pvp side but the progressive pve kiddies are really annoying with that im better than you shit because they can play 10-15 hours aday off mommies and daddy's dime.
I've never had a pvper inspect my character and belittle me for a uncommon spec or a low gear score.
Your mistaken. Those people are asking for a "hardcore pve" server. They want Trion to drop the ability to flag for pvp in the open world. They want the factions to play together and understand eachother. Honestly I think it's dumb.
The term dumb is quite subjective. Just as the belief of many players that they don't want to pay to play a game where they have to babysit other peoples children. They simply want a server where they can avoid the loud and visible minority of PvP players that spends their game time screaming for attention by trying to harrass and bother other players.
IM sorry but from my experience the Pve raider loot whores are the children in MMOs.
Sure you get certain loud mouth asshats on the pvp side but the progressive pve kiddies are really annoying with that im better than you shit because they can play 10-15 hours aday off mommies and daddy's dime.
I've never had a pvper inspect my character and belittle me for a uncommon spec or a low gear score.
Actually, though they didn't have the tools they do today, I recall back in DAOC when certain "elite" PVP guilds recruited you definitely had to have the correct build, skills and gear or they wouldn't let you join their 8 man's. (especially on Mordred) the phenomenon became particularly intense after TOA went live and those skills could give you almost god-like abilities in PVP.
And I see what the Rift PVE crowd is asking for...sounds a lot like DAOC's progression server where all factions could interact together to challenge the PVE content collectively.
I haven't seen modern MMO's bother to provide alternate rules servers such as was done by Mythic back in the day, always had hoped WOW would create some with all their money but they never did. (was always hoping for a FFA PVP server but it never happened)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Zippy Originally posted by Rockgod99 Your mistaken. Those people are asking for a "hardcore pve" server. They want Trion to drop the ability to flag for pvp in the open world. They want the factions to play together and understand eachother. Honestly I think it's dumb.
The term dumb is quite subjective. Just as the belief of many players that they don't want to pay to play a game where they have to babysit other peoples children. They simply want a server where they can avoid the loud and visible minority of PvP players that spends their game time screaming for attention by trying to harrass and bother other players.
Trion has implemented the PvP in the game because they believe the majority of people want it that way. They did not implement some world PvP because of a minority of players. The PvP that's there was designed in from the beginning...they didn't write that just before Beta 5.
Since everyone is talking about their experience, my experience is that players on forums are generally whiners whether they are firmly PvP or PvE players. PvP players whine when they don't win matches because it's obviously a balance issue and not their skill. PvE players will whine about an amazing array of things from having to hit an extra button while tanking to another class being able to Feign Death and not take damage when a raid wipes. Both groups will whine because their class is really good at dps, but mediocre at healing (the reverse is also true). They all focus on one, single detail ignoring the entire rest of the game to try and get their point across. The whole thing is really annoying.
In this particular case, a few PvE players ignored anything Trion said about PvP being in the game so they could turn themselves into the small but vocal minority and have something to complain about. If you give them a PvE server, they'll complain about any changes that occur to balance the game, saying they should have a different set of balance rules because they don't PvP. They'll complain about a lack of content if they can't do content that was intended for the PvP portion of the game. Creating a PvE only server will not satisfy them because they are a small vocal minority...they're never satisfied.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Your mistaken. Those people are asking for a "hardcore pve" server. They want Trion to drop the ability to flag for pvp in the open world. They want the factions to play together and understand eachother. Honestly I think it's dumb.
The term dumb is quite subjective. Just as the belief of many players that they don't want to pay to play a game where they have to babysit other peoples children. They simply want a server where they can avoid the loud and visible minority of PvP players that spends their game time screaming for attention by trying to harrass and bother other players.
IM sorry but from my experience the Pve raider loot whores are the children in MMOs.
Sure you get certain loud mouth asshats on the pvp side but the progressive pve kiddies are really annoying with that im better than you shit because they can play 10-15 hours aday off mommies and daddy's dime.
I've never had a pvper inspect my character and belittle me for a uncommon spec or a low gear score.
A good raiding guild is not about time but about skill, teamwork, experience and efficiency. A good raiding guild will clear all content each week and spend much less time raiding than the casual guilds simply because they are more efficient.
I do agree with you there are lots of loud mouth raiding guilds. But im my expereince the guilds that talk on the forums generally are not very good guilds. Thier victories are on forums not in game. Loud guilds IMO also seem to exploit quite a bit more as they are more focused on gaining themselves attention. Good raiding guilds do not need to brag they can let their accomplishments speak for themselves. I don't know if the same applies to good PvP guilds but I would guess it is similar where the higher the noise ratio the worse the guild. But regardless PvP still attracts the more loud mouth smack talking type players.
But it was not my point to belittle PvP players. Most of the PvP players are well behaved its the loud vocal minority that ruins games for players. Many PvE players simply do not want to babysit someones unruly 15-25 year old child and for that reason perfer to play on a PvE server. These attention seeking children are such a destructive force in MMOs as they drive so many people out of the game with thier attention seeking antics. I would not be surprised if for every griefer that is banned a company would save 10-20 subscriptions of people that would not leave the game.
Originally posted by Timukas Originally posted by Xasapis Yes, healing or buffing a flagged person flags you as well. Any other way would have been easily exploitable. I think the moaning is because people can kill the opposing NPCs in some areas. When this happens you either have to flag yourself and help, or wait for the 2-3 minutes it takes for the NPCs to respawn.
Think you get flagged for PvP for 5 minutes if you heal/buff a flagged player. Do not mind PvP folks killing my NPCs because that only adds spice to the game. In one beta I parked my toon in a safe spot. At least I thought so. And when I logged in I was in middle of higher level invasion killing all NPCs, me and several others. And that was fun. Same goes for PvP flagged players, I just take them as an invasion. Difference with PvP servers is that there you can conquer territories of the opposing faction.
As I'm reading the various posts in this thread, a major point is being left out of the convo. The BIG problem people are having on the PvE servers are that groups of higher level players are camping at NPC quest hubs for hours at a time killing the NPC's every time they spawn. These groups are making it impossible for people to get quests and turn them in. To add to this, by default everyone is flagged for PvP so unless you were aware, these gankers probably ran a train on your behind once or twice. Not only that, repairing your soul can get quite expensive.
PvE'ers don't mind if someone else wants to PvP as long as it doesn't effect their game play... that is the reason for having PvE servers isn't it???
Yes, healing or buffing a flagged person flags you as well. Any other way would have been easily exploitable.
I think the moaning is because people can kill the opposing NPCs in some areas. When this happens you either have to flag yourself and help, or wait for the 2-3 minutes it takes for the NPCs to respawn.
Think you get flagged for PvP for 5 minutes if you heal/buff a flagged player. Do not mind PvP folks killing my NPCs because that only adds spice to the game. In one beta I parked my toon in a safe spot. At least I thought so. And when I logged in I was in middle of higher level invasion killing all NPCs, me and several others. And that was fun. Same goes for PvP flagged players, I just take them as an invasion. Difference with PvP servers is that there you can conquer territories of the opposing faction.
As I'm reading the various posts in this thread, a major point is being left out of the convo. The BIG problem people are having on the PvE servers are that groups of higher level players are camping at NPC quest hubs for hours at a time killing the NPC's every time they spawn. These groups are making it impossible for people to get quests and turn them in. To add to this, by default everyone is flagged for PvP so unless you were aware, these gankers probably ran a train on your behind once or twice. Not only that, repairing your soul can get quite expensive.
PvE'ers don't mind if someone else wants to PvP as long as it doesn't effect their game play... that is the reason for having PvE servers isn't it???
They could give quest npc:s 50 million hp and make them impossible to kill. That would fix that problem and there would be no need to change any rules or mechanics. I agree that you should be able to do your quests without the quest npc getting farmed and killed. I do alot of pvp myself. But killing quest npc:s is not pvp... Its just silly.
There should be other ways to get good (real)pvp fights. And on a PvE server players that wants to PvE should not be interrupted and hindered by something like that. I mean it will hurt the game if people that log in to do some quests cant because the quest giving npc:s are dead. This is not even OK on PvP servers...you should be able to kill the players everywhere but there is no reason you should be able to kill quest-npc:s... Being able to kill the players trying to do the quests is enough... Killing quest npc:s is not PvP.
They could give quest npc:s 50 million hp and make them impossible to kill.
They could not really do that as quest npcs need to be easy to kill so Rift Invaders can kill them and take over hubs. Quest hubs seem to be balanced where the quest npcs will always lose to non elite Rift Invaders if no player is there to help. The only real option I can think of short of banning griefers would be to make them green to both factions on PvE servers.
Im gonna be honest, I only go for PVP servers, some old guildies decided to come together for Rift and I was absolutely gutted that the majority voted for a PVE server, I dont care about the flagging, as long as the contested areas work as it is and there will be some PVP action, so it is likely world pvp will happen just because a group can form and go and take a few quest hubs from the other faction.
So this topic does really make me happy that even tho I will end up going PVE there will be plenty of PVP outside warfronts.
Comments
The server choices in beta 5 were exactly the same choices from WoW: PvE, PvP, RP-PvP, and RP-PvP
The pve servers are like wow pve server..You can join warfronts which is like a wow BG , but pvp is strictly optional. It is not forced like pvp servers.
You are right there are no pure PvE server but only hybrid server s and PvP servers. You can flag yourself intentionally or by your own actons, be griefed by PvP players killing your mobs and quest npcs. But benerally these kiddies just want attention if you ignore them they will go look elsewhere for someone to babysit them.
On PvE servers you need to flag yourself as PvP or enter the PvP mini games. Its all consensual PvP so I don't see what the issue is. I have heard you can get flagged for PvP if you do something like buff someone who is flagged, not sure if that is true.
Yes, healing or buffing a flagged person flags you as well. Any other way would have been easily exploitable.
I think the moaning is because people can kill the opposing NPCs in some areas. When this happens you either have to flag yourself and help, or wait for the 2-3 minutes it takes for the NPCs to respawn.
There is open world pvp on ALL servers. The only difference between a pvp and "pve" server is that you must voluntarily flag yourself to participate in pvp on "pve" servers. Pvp is not instanced as in many pve games, there are contested areas of the map, npc killing, inability to group or communicate with the members of the opposite faction and a pvp atmosphere once you reach these zones in your leveling. If your definition of a real pve server is one in which pvp happens in instances and doesn't impact on the pve game in any way this isn't the game for you.
You can communicate with the opposite faction. /say and /yell works at least.
Can you be griefed by players of the opposing faction without being killed in PvP on a PvE server? Yes.
While PvP flagging is optional, the NPCs you may need are PvE fodder to high level toons of the opposing faction...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
True, around chat can be seen by all. I had in mind not being able to send tells or mail.
As long as you've got player hubs offered up as quest targets, you've got a buffet of entertainment for those that enjoy making other people miserable. Trion has a bad case of developer multiple-personality disorder and doesn't seem to know just what Rift is beyond a mishmash of shiny features.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
This is going to have minimal impact on the game. I have no proof of this, but judging from all the other games I've played where this is available, it's minimal.
A bigger issue, since there are pvp areas and quests is the faction balance. I don't think this is going to be a big issue for the overall population of the game, but it is going to be an issue for specific shards (unless you can easily switch shards at some point). A few shards will have a population imbalance, and once it's noticed by the general popualation it will spiral out of control (because that's what happens). If you can easily jump shards, it's not really an issue.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The term dumb is quite subjective. Just as the belief of many players that they don't want to pay to play a game where they have to babysit other peoples children. They simply want a server where they can avoid the loud and visible minority of PvP players that spends their game time screaming for attention by trying to harrass and bother other players.
IM sorry but from my experience the Pve raider loot whores are the children in MMOs.
Sure you get certain loud mouth asshats on the pvp side but the progressive pve kiddies are really annoying with that im better than you shit because they can play 10-15 hours aday off mommies and daddy's dime.
I've never had a pvper inspect my character and belittle me for a uncommon spec or a low gear score.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Actually, though they didn't have the tools they do today, I recall back in DAOC when certain "elite" PVP guilds recruited you definitely had to have the correct build, skills and gear or they wouldn't let you join their 8 man's. (especially on Mordred) the phenomenon became particularly intense after TOA went live and those skills could give you almost god-like abilities in PVP.
And I see what the Rift PVE crowd is asking for...sounds a lot like DAOC's progression server where all factions could interact together to challenge the PVE content collectively.
I haven't seen modern MMO's bother to provide alternate rules servers such as was done by Mythic back in the day, always had hoped WOW would create some with all their money but they never did. (was always hoping for a FFA PVP server but it never happened)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Trion has implemented the PvP in the game because they believe the majority of people want it that way. They did not implement some world PvP because of a minority of players. The PvP that's there was designed in from the beginning...they didn't write that just before Beta 5.
Since everyone is talking about their experience, my experience is that players on forums are generally whiners whether they are firmly PvP or PvE players. PvP players whine when they don't win matches because it's obviously a balance issue and not their skill. PvE players will whine about an amazing array of things from having to hit an extra button while tanking to another class being able to Feign Death and not take damage when a raid wipes. Both groups will whine because their class is really good at dps, but mediocre at healing (the reverse is also true). They all focus on one, single detail ignoring the entire rest of the game to try and get their point across. The whole thing is really annoying.
In this particular case, a few PvE players ignored anything Trion said about PvP being in the game so they could turn themselves into the small but vocal minority and have something to complain about. If you give them a PvE server, they'll complain about any changes that occur to balance the game, saying they should have a different set of balance rules because they don't PvP. They'll complain about a lack of content if they can't do content that was intended for the PvP portion of the game. Creating a PvE only server will not satisfy them because they are a small vocal minority...they're never satisfied.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
A good raiding guild is not about time but about skill, teamwork, experience and efficiency. A good raiding guild will clear all content each week and spend much less time raiding than the casual guilds simply because they are more efficient.
I do agree with you there are lots of loud mouth raiding guilds. But im my expereince the guilds that talk on the forums generally are not very good guilds. Thier victories are on forums not in game. Loud guilds IMO also seem to exploit quite a bit more as they are more focused on gaining themselves attention. Good raiding guilds do not need to brag they can let their accomplishments speak for themselves. I don't know if the same applies to good PvP guilds but I would guess it is similar where the higher the noise ratio the worse the guild. But regardless PvP still attracts the more loud mouth smack talking type players.
But it was not my point to belittle PvP players. Most of the PvP players are well behaved its the loud vocal minority that ruins games for players. Many PvE players simply do not want to babysit someones unruly 15-25 year old child and for that reason perfer to play on a PvE server. These attention seeking children are such a destructive force in MMOs as they drive so many people out of the game with thier attention seeking antics. I would not be surprised if for every griefer that is banned a company would save 10-20 subscriptions of people that would not leave the game.
As I'm reading the various posts in this thread, a major point is being left out of the convo. The BIG problem people are having on the PvE servers are that groups of higher level players are camping at NPC quest hubs for hours at a time killing the NPC's every time they spawn. These groups are making it impossible for people to get quests and turn them in. To add to this, by default everyone is flagged for PvP so unless you were aware, these gankers probably ran a train on your behind once or twice. Not only that, repairing your soul can get quite expensive.
PvE'ers don't mind if someone else wants to PvP as long as it doesn't effect their game play... that is the reason for having PvE servers isn't it???
They could give quest npc:s 50 million hp and make them impossible to kill. That would fix that problem and there would be no need to change any rules or mechanics. I agree that you should be able to do your quests without the quest npc getting farmed and killed. I do alot of pvp myself. But killing quest npc:s is not pvp... Its just silly.
There should be other ways to get good (real)pvp fights. And on a PvE server players that wants to PvE should not be interrupted and hindered by something like that. I mean it will hurt the game if people that log in to do some quests cant because the quest giving npc:s are dead. This is not even OK on PvP servers...you should be able to kill the players everywhere but there is no reason you should be able to kill quest-npc:s... Being able to kill the players trying to do the quests is enough... Killing quest npc:s is not PvP.
We can only hope that there isn't and never will be a another PVE server made for any game.
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
They could not really do that as quest npcs need to be easy to kill so Rift Invaders can kill them and take over hubs. Quest hubs seem to be balanced where the quest npcs will always lose to non elite Rift Invaders if no player is there to help. The only real option I can think of short of banning griefers would be to make them green to both factions on PvE servers.
Im gonna be honest, I only go for PVP servers, some old guildies decided to come together for Rift and I was absolutely gutted that the majority voted for a PVE server, I dont care about the flagging, as long as the contested areas work as it is and there will be some PVP action, so it is likely world pvp will happen just because a group can form and go and take a few quest hubs from the other faction.
So this topic does really make me happy that even tho I will end up going PVE there will be plenty of PVP outside warfronts.