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My Sandy Bridge COLLAPSED =(
At least I wasn't on it, yet though!
I had my new gaming laptop build all set up, paid for and ready for a new MMO release, and wouldn't you know it?
INTEL RECALLS THE SANDY BRIDGES.
This really fucks up my week!
SO, what is the consensus? I already cancelled my order, but do I go for another build that doesn't feature the newest shit, or do I just wait out the Sandy Bridge problems and grab my rig when Intel has it all worked out? Has this happened before? If so, how long did it take to iron their stuff out?
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Comments
Latest I've heard is that the Sandy Bridge replacement chipsets are due around early to mid April. Supposedly they already have a fix engineered, it's just a matter of getting to to the fab and getting production up and going.
Now the choice of waiting or getting something else, I don't know. Honestly, if there was a choice to go ahead and get a flawed one and RMA/exhange it later, that would be ideal (as it probably won't break inside of the time you have to use it). Aside from that, I guess it depends on what your current computer situation is, and if it's capable of limping by for whatever MMO subscriptions you have lined up.
If you can wait, I would say another couple-three months would be worth it, because there won't be anything significantly better than Sandy Bridge for quite some time. If your current computer can't cut it though, then it can't cut it, and you may as well get something now.
Yeah, I found an article saying the same thing. The computer I'm on now won't limp since in MMO terms it doesn't even have legs
So I have to decide. Its hard though. When dropping the the kind of buckage you need for a good gaming rig, I really want to get the absolute best stuff available, so that it becomes obsolete as late as possible in the future.
At the same time, being only slightly tehnically inclined, I don't really know how much of a difference there is between the Sandy Bridge and whatever I would get instead, if I were to choose to do so.
So here's hoping some of the techies that lurk here can shine some light on things for me! What would you do in my shoes?
Secondary question, do you know any good companies for building computers? I was going to go with Cyber Power PC, but not anymore. I found out about this recall and delay from an article I read. I had to email THEM to find out how it would affect my order (which was supposed to ship today). With customer service like that, they can kiss my ass! So you guys know anyone decent?
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
It's really a question of whether you want something new right now, or whether you're willing to wait a few months to get a system that will likely last you a couple years longer before it needs replacement.
It's probably better to get a gaming desktop unless you absolutely need a gaming laptop for some reason. That will get you much better performance for cheaper, among other benefits.
Assuming this is a desktop build that you are putting together yourself:
Well, you could go ahead and get the parts for your computer, just get the least expensive motherboard/CPU you can get away with (probably an AM3 with a 2-core Athlon II, or maybe a Phenom II, with a inexpensive motherboard would be around $110-$120 total), and buy everything else the same as you would with Sandy Bridge. This will get you running immediately, and then when the new 1155's come out in April, you resell your cheapy motherboard/CPU (probably for a small loss, but hey, it gets you running now) or recycle it into a NAS or Folding box, or just keep in the closet in case something else on Sandy Bridge breaks later, and just reuse everything else.
Video card, RAM, case, power supply, drives, all the other hardware will carry over with no problems. Just make sure you get a regular build of Win7, and not an OEM copy.
And if that works well enough for you, there is also the option of waiting for the LGA2011 CPU's/motherboards later this fall/winter (the direct upgrade to the existing 1366).
If you decide to buy now, your option would probably be either a Socket 1156 Core i5 - this is exactly the system that Sandy Bridge upgrades: dual channel DDR3, no hyperthreading, dual or quad core. It is still a decently performing system, but you likely won't see amazing 5Ghz overclocks with one, and the TurboBoost feature is much weaker.
There are also 1156 Core i7's, and 1366 Core i7's, which are essentially the same as Core i5's with the addition of Hyperthreading (the Socket 1366's also upgrade to triple channel DDR3). A 6-core Socket 1366 Core i7 can run as fast (or even faster) than a Sandy Bridge system, but they have extremely high price tags. The more or less standard for enthusiasts and gaming for the past couple of years has been a Socket 1366 i7 running around 3.6Ghz, so those systems will likely still perform well on game releases for at least a couple more years to come.
If your dead set on a laptop, well... your probably better off waiting, as once you buy it, your totally stuck with it.
This is why a consumer who has any shred of intelligence should not chance buying 1st generation versions of any technology out there. Waiting a few months means greater stability and fixes. More support too as well as prices dropping to a more affordable price point for a consumer.
You act like second, third, or XX generation stuff is any less likely to break. Or that bugs can't be found months after the release date. The famous Pentium FDIV bug wasn't found until a year and a half after the release of the first Pentium. The nVidia mobile recall was done for the 4th and 6th iterations of the 8000 series mobile GPUs.
The only way to be a safe consumer is to put all your money in your mattress and pretend like your not losing out to inflation. And it's oh-so-easy to call people silly in hindsight.
Oh it is ABSOLUTELY better (both financially and quality-wise) to build a desktop! Unfortunately, I AM getting a laptop. I work the third shift in a hotel, and litterally sit there pretty much bored to tears by myself all night. I am getting this laptop so I can game while I do so, so that I stop losing my mind to boredom
Or at least have the option to. Currently I am stuck with reading and playing old single player games, which has served me well for the last year, but its time for more 
And you're right, it is a question of now or new. And its hard. The game I want to play is launching. I am already losing it with my shift. At the same time, if I am going to spend this kind of money, I want it to LAST. So I'm having a hard time justifying it either way.
Thanks for the reply quizz! You are actually specifically one of the people I was hoping would weigh in here, I appreciate it!
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Sadly, for my particular gaming needs this go around, I DO need a laptop, which makes me sad. It doesn't mean I won't get to get a desktop, just that for right now I need the laptop
Thanks for the input, though
It is appreciated!
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Well said, Ride.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
I'm confused here, since as a system builder I normally browse builder forums for theory-crafted builds to go "oooh" & "aaaah" over.
Yet, here I find someone like the OP talking about buying a SandyBridge processor for high end gaming? Are you silly, or were you simply sold on the "hype" train that some other fool has placed you upon for the sheer bliss of companionship on a train to no where?
The whole "gimic" behind the SandyBridge processor is that it's essentially Intel's attempt at bundling a CPU + a GPU (video card processor) into one unit. This means that the SandyBridge was IDEALY meant for large computer building companies to "cheaply" provide PC's that do NOT need independant (or on-board) videocards to display graphics. Instead, the CPU & the GPU are one and the same providing large scale cheap PC's to be efficiently made that have at LEAST decent graphics.
This means that for Colleges who need new efficient PC's will be able to get more power for their buck (+ processing power, for less money on initial production, so they can afford to increase performance to the $$ level to outweigh the needlessness of a videocard).
Why in the WORLD are you using a SandyBridge on a gaming RIG? Unless your budget is only around $500, you've perplexed me Sir and/or Mam. Who told you to do this? Through your own volition, or a friend's advice?
If you're looking for a good build for gaming, try a Phenom II or Intel i-7 build. These are currently the best $$ builds. SandyBridges are for low end builds.
-Faded
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Oh my. So much wrong with that.
First, the CPU side of Sandy Bridge is far superior to Lynnfield, Bloomfield, Clarkdale, Deneb, or Thuban. So you get a Sandy Bridge, disable the integrated graphics, and use a discrete video card for gaming. Some laptops will shut down the video card and use the integrated graphics while you're not gaming to save power.
Second, Sandy Bridge isn't a low cost solution. Clarkdale is Intel's current relatively low cost processor/integrated graphics combo. Actually, a Wolfdale Pentium or Celeron with a 4 series Intel integrated graphics chipset is cheaper. An Athlon II with an 880G chipset motherboard is cheaper, too. Rather, Sandy Bridge is the high end. Intel intends for the current Sandy Bridge processors to be the upper midrange when the high end, six core version of Sandy Bridge launches late this year. But that's most of a year away.
Next, you can't get a Sandy Bridge system for $500. Even before the recall, the processor and motherboard alone would typically cost over $350. If you really cut corners on what you buy, you could maybe cut that to $300. But you're not going to fill in a reasonable $500 gaming rig around that. The minimum budget for a Sandy Bridge system to make sense for a gaming desktop is around $1000.
-----
For a laptop, you should know that a Core i7 740QM (Clarksfield) costs about the same as a Core i7 2720QM (Sandy Bridge), and uses about the same power. But the Sandy Bridge has much higher clock speeds, has a much more aggressive turbo boost, and has better performance per clock cycle, so it would be faster even if the two processors were clocked the same. Clarksfield is fast enough to be a decent gaming processor for a laptop, but will hold you back in some games. The games should still be playable, but perhaps somewhat choppy. This is only some games; games that don't use the processor that much will run perfectly smoothly on a Clarksfield processor. Sandy Bridge, on the other hand, is fast enough that processor speed won't be a meaningful limitation for you in gaming for years--and is the first laptop processor for which this is true.
As I see it, you've got four options. One is to wait for Sandy Bridge laptops to re-emerge, and then buy one. This will get you the highest performance. The defective SATA 2 controller in the chipset only matters if you use SATA 2 ports, and some laptops likely don't, so this might happen very soon--and before the replacement chipsets are out. At worst, you could have to wait until April or May.
Another option is to wait for AMD to launch Llano this Spring. My guess is that Llano will launch a little after Sandy Bridge comes back, but it could happen before. Llano won't compete with Sandy Bridge plus a discrete card on performance. It will, however, have the first integrated graphics that are actually good enough for gaming. Llano will thus offer the world's first budget gaming laptops, with a laptop able to run nearly any game decently at moderate settings, and for perhaps around $700. And without the need for a discrete video card, Llano won't put out nearly as much heat as normal gaming laptops, so it won't be nearly so prone to overheating as most gaming laptops.
A third option is to go ahead and buy a Clarksfield laptop with the best AMD video card you can afford, and simply accept that it's not going to have that long of a useful lifetime. Radeon HD 6970M is the new high end, while 6870M is a rebranded Mobility 5870 (so it's fine to get one branded as a Mobility 5870 instead if that's what you find), and 6770M (Turks) should be coming soon, and is kind of the lowest end that I'd suggest for a gaming laptop, as it probably won't be that expensive.
A fourth option if you have a big enough budget would be to take the third option and plan on replacing it in a year. Ivy Bridge should basically be a die shrink of Sandy Bridge that offers perhaps a little better performance for less power consumption. More importantly, video cards will transition to 28 nm HKMG process nodes around that time, which means you should be able to get better video card performance for less power consumption. My guess is that the cards will be branded as the Radeon HD 7000 series and GeForce 600 series, though Nvidia's naming scheme is chaotic enough that you never know what they'll call it.
Sounds like this chain of events was a blessing in disguise, then.I made this decision of my own volition and clearly I am not equipped to make this decision well. Thank you for the information!
I am currently on my droid so its way too much of a pain to post up the specs of the build I was going for.
when I get home I will post if so you guys can give me feedback.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
These were the specs.
ADAPTER: Universal AC-DC Adapter (P151HM)
BAGS: Free Deluxe Carrying Bag for 15.6 Inch Notebook
BATTERY: 8-cells Smart Lithium-Ion Battery Pack 76.96Wh (P151HM)
BLUETOOTH: None
CD: 8X DVD±R/RW/4X +DL Super-Multi Drive (P151HM)
CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-2720QM Mobile Processor 2.20 GHz 6M Intel Smart Cache, Max Turbo Freq. 3.30 GHz
FLASHMEDIA: Built-In 3in1 Media Reader
FLOPPY: None
HDD: 250GB 7200RPM SATA300 Hard Drive [-9]
HDMI: Built-in HDMI Port
IEEE_CARD: Built-in IEEE-1394b Firewire Port
INVERTER: None
KEYBOARD: Built-in Keyboard
MEMORY: 8GB (4GBx2) DDR3-1333 SODIMM Memory (Corsair or Major Brand)
MOTHERBOARD: Intel HM65 Chipset Mainboard
MOUSE: BUILT-IN TOUCHPAD
NETWORK: Built-in 10/100/1000 Mbps Network Card
NOTEBOOK: Clevo P151HM Notebook 15.6" Full HD 1920x1080 Display w/ Built-in 2.0 MP Webcam, HDMI Port, Li-Ion Battery, & Universal AC Adapter
NOTEBOOK_COVER: Xplorer X6 Notebook Cover - Original Metallic Black
OS: Microsoft® Windows® 7 Home Premium (64-bit Edition)
SECURITY: Built-in Biometric Fingerprint Sensor
SERVICE: STANDARD 1-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY AND LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT
SOUND: Built-in 3D Premium Surround Sound
SPEAKERS: Built-in Stereo Speakers System
TVRC: None
USB: Built-in 2x USB2.0 Ports + 2x USB3.0 Ports
USBFLASH: None
USBHD: None
VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460M 1.5GB GDDR5 PCIe Video
VIDEOCAMERA1: Built-in 2.0 Mega Pixel Webcam
WNC: Intel WiFi Link 6300 a/b/g/n Wireless Adapter
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
If you're looking for a $$-wise best build why would you actually consider anything from INTEL? To be on the HYPE train as you mentioned above? I dont get it, I've been asking this question for millennia and so far NOONE has answered in a logical manner why would they prefer INTEL over AMD.
and yet again my question stands unanswered :<
I just looked at the Clevo, its so plain looking. I'm Stil using the Asus G73 works great with alot of games still.
I must idiotic for prefering Intel over AMD too, even though I've built AMD platforms before when they actually performed well. I tend to seek stellar performance for some of the most advanced experiments and one thing AMD has a problem with is sensitivity.
Every time I get a test sample, I always ask if I can run a tolerance test where I bring the processors to a temperature based to 5 - 10c below toleranece to test a processor running under pressure and the AMD processors always have more crashes. I am still waiting for one generation where Intel processors actually lose in this area. It would make me feel better.
Of course by the logic of most fanboys...I must be a complete Idiot for liking Intel. Little things like two masters degrees, two bachelors degrees along with two minors and many years of actually working within game programming and some operating system projects seem to not matter over the internet, specially to those who can't appreciate the value of education and experience.
This is exactly the reason why when it comes to being professional in most places Online, I can care less about giving any knowledge to the uneducated and inexperienced masses unless they are actually friends who are in need of help.
In modern processors, for an Intel processor, that would simply disable turbo boost, and thereby markedly decrease the clock speed. Of course that's going to make the processor more stable.
AMD processors don't do that. Most recent AMD processors don't have anything analogous to turbo boost. Thuban has Turbo CORE, but that doesn't check temperature, but only power draw and the number of active cores. Basically, AMD trusts that the user can install an appropriate heatsink--and even includes one with at least some of their processors, unlike Intel's awful stock heatsinks (except for Gulftown).
If you want a similar stability effect from AMD processors, try decreasing the clock speed in the BIOS. It's a simple matter to decrease the multiplier.
But either you knew that and are just trying to look for some excuse to knock AMD, or else you're making things up and have no clue what you're talking about.
AVA Direct has my order on hold until I contact them. So I'm thinking about what to do. I waited until January. Now I guess I'm supose to wait until April-May? Is an internal SATA port card something I should consider now? I was thinking about asking them to change the 500 gig HD to a terabyte, and then I'd use external storage for any need in the future.
If my DVD drive SATA2 fails, I'll just swap it to another SATA2. Under such light (DVD) use, I'm guessing this would keep me fully operational practically forever, no? Should I cancel and wait for the fix, or accept delivery now?
__________________________________________________
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-P67A-UD3P, LGA1155, Intel® P67, DDR3-2133 16GB /4, PCIe x16 CF /2, SATA 3Gb/s RAID 5 /4, 6Gb/s /2, USB 3.0 /4, HDA, GbLAN, ATX, Retail
1st Hard Drive: CRUCIAL 64GB RealSSD™ C300 SSD, MLC Marvell 88SS9174, 355/75 MB/s, 2.5-Inch, SATA 6 Gb/s, Retail
2nd Hard Drive: WESTERN DIGITAL 500GB WD Caviar® Black™ (WD5002AALX), SATA 6 Gb/s, 7200 RPM, 32MB Cache
DVD Drive: ...
__________________________________________________
This is the HD I'd change to;
WESTERN DIGITAL 1TB WD Caviar® Black™ (WD1002FAEX), SATA 6 Gb/s, 7200 RPM, 64MB Cache
Any suggestions on a different motherboard? I was looking and found these for around the same price;
GIGABYTE GA-P67A-UD4, LGA1155, Intel® P67, DDR3-2133 16GB /4, PCIe x16 SLI CF /2, SATA 3Gb/s RAID 5 /4, 6Gb/s /2, USB 3.0 /4, HDA, GbLAN, ATX, Retail
Marvell 88SE9128 chip:
2 x eSATA 6Gb/s connectors on the back panel supporting up to 2 SATA 6Gb/s devices
ASUS P8P67 PRO, LGA1155, Intel® P67, DDR3-2200 (O.C.) 32GB /4, PCIe x16 SLI CF /2, SATA 3 Gb/s RAID 5 /6, 6 Gb/s /4, USB 3.0 /4, HDA, GbLAN, BT, FW /2, ATX, Retail
ASUS Sabertooth P67, LGA1155, Intel® P67, DDR3-1800 32GB /4, PCIe x16 SLI CF /2, SATA 3 Gb/s RAID 5 /4, 6 Gb/s /2, USB 3.0 /2, HDA, GbLAN, FW /2, ATX, Retail
Marvell® PCIe SATA 6Gb/s controller
2 xSATA 6Gb/s ports (gray)
One option would be to get a higher end motherboard with the Marvell SATA 3 controller, in addition to the one build into the P67 chipset. That gets you four SATA 3 ports, which should be enough. Be warned that the separate SATA 3 chip will use up some PCI Express lanes, though, so you might want to look into the implementation to see what PCI Express lanes it takes. If it borrows a PCI Express x1 connection, great. That would be a bottleneck if you attach a device that can fill up a SATA 3 connection (no such devices exist yet), but for an optical drive, restricting to the 500 MB/s bandwidth of a PCI Express 2.0 x1 link won't make a bit of difference for an optical drive that can't reach 30 MB/s. If it takes the x4 connection, that's perhaps less desirable, but you can live with that. If it steals half of the x16 connection, so that you then have an x8 link to the video card, that's a problem. I'm skeptical that they'd do that, though.
Another thing you could do would be to ask AVA Direct how they're going to handle the recall. I wouldn't be surprised if some companies end up saying, here, if you agree to keep your motherboard with the defective chipset, we'll send you a discrete PCI or PCI Express card with four SATA 2 ports on it for free.
Yes, you could do either of those just fine. A PCI SATA card can be got for pretty cheap (~$30 US or so, more if you want fancy RAID options). And you can just swap to another internal SATA port if the one you are on does start giving you problems. Most people don't use the optical drive extensively anyway: I am assuming you'd have your two hard drives on the SATA3 ports, and the optical drive would be the only device on the vulnerable SATA2 ports.
Well as much as I'd like to just work around the problem, I'm worried that there could be more problems with the chipset that we are not hearing about yet. Intel is doing a full recall for a supposed 5% problem that isn't even a problem considering the option to simply sidestep the intel SATA2. That sounds odd to me. Maybe they know something else is wrong. Any speculation on the potential for more serious problems occuring with these boards?
They just resumed shipments of laptop and other versions that "would not be affected" because they don't use the SATA2 ports.
There's always the chance that something else could turn up bad, and there's always the chance that the one you get never breaks in the first place. And there's always the chance that you wait for the fixed version and get a DOA motherboard in the first place.