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So nobody knows much, if anything, about ALIGNMENT

MelkrowMelkrow Member Posts: 278

Did a lot of digging and a lot of searching, couldn't really find much of useful info on the alignment system in this game.  So far this is pretty much all that is known:

1. Good and Neutral tribes get protection in their tribe area.  Evil tribes do not.

2. Good and Neutral players respawn at the spot where they died, while Evil players are teleported to their tribal totem pole, or in case they are not in a tribe, at their starting location.

 

So there is absolutely no incentive to be Evil?  You still can't attack people in their 'good' tribal areas? While everybody can come and attack you in yours.  Why would anybody want to be evil? Why is there even an option to be evil when it's completely biased towards good.

What is the difference between good and neutral?  Can  you change Tribe alignment from Evil to good?  Does anybody have any clues?



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Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars
Played: Darkfall, EVE, AoC, Ryzom, Ragnarok Online, GW2, PS2, Secret World, WOW, City Of Heroes/Villains, Champion Online.

Comments

  • Thomas2006Thomas2006 Member RarePosts: 1,152

    The system isnt ingame and the last I heard was that its going to be changing.

    If you want to join Xsyon just to gank / kill other players then with the upcoming system you are going to be let down. There are going to be fairly steep consiquences for killing lots of other players. 

  • PyrettaBlazePyrettaBlaze Member Posts: 34

    Hmm yeah you make a good point. I am still a complete newbie to the game but as far as I'm aware they want this 'prelude' phase to be completely focused on players building up the world, working together and what-not. Perhaps this is the focus of the entire game and not just prelude, I am really not sure.

     

    All I heard is being evil will have severe consequences and that it's not what the game is about right now. So yeah really not sure why they even give the option to be evil. I suppose it is realistic. Those looking for a real challenge  might like the sound of it even though there are no benefits.

     

    Keep in mind I really have no knowledge of this game and it's design or mechanics. I only just heard about it last week and started playing the other day.

     

  • MelkrowMelkrow Member Posts: 278

    Originally posted by Thomas2006

    The system isnt ingame and the last I heard was that its going to be changing.

    If you want to join Xsyon just to gank / kill other players then with the upcoming system you are going to be let down. There are going to be fairly steep consiquences for killing lots of other players. 

    It's not about me wanting to gank anybody, it's about the logic of the alignment mechanic... it doesn't seem to make any sense in it's current forum.  Good and Neutral are one and the same, Evil is...well, a choice only stupid people would think is a good idea, it's all about lose lose lose lose with Evil.  I keep hearing people pull facts out of their behinds, like yourself, saying "major consiquences" for being evil and similar expressions, but non of you are able to cite or link to a source of that info.  I am starting to think that at this point I'm right, all these 'facts', aside from the ones I mentioned in the original post, are nothing but he said she said bullshit and nobody knows anything.  Another one of the unfinished and completely broken 'features' on the list.

    If Prelude is supposed to be about love and peace, then they should simply disable PVP, and/or remove "Evil" as an option, and moreover come out and say it like it is.  I was very close to buying the game today,  I watched tutorial videos on youtube and got pretty excited.  I made up my mind to buy the game and start my own tribe, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to make it Evil or Neutral, so I try to dig up some info on it only to find out that ...well what I posted in the first post.  Just seems like a shitty approach to the whole thing, so I'll pass on the game for now.  Too bad I wanted to get that 2-week headstart and build a tribe early on, but can't really justify investing money and time into something where I don't know the basics of (because Devs don't seem to know as well).



    image


    Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars
    Played: Darkfall, EVE, AoC, Ryzom, Ragnarok Online, GW2, PS2, Secret World, WOW, City Of Heroes/Villains, Champion Online.
  • BorlucBorluc Member UncommonPosts: 262

    This is a good question and I'd like to see an answer for this as well.  There is no reason  to have looting and pvp if it is completely useless to do so.  If the design states that the players are responsible for building up and guiding the fate of the world, how does it make sense to then limit players to being peaceful hippies?  I love the idea that pvp isn't the main focus all the time, but it shouldn't be included and then treated like the red headed step child of the game. 

    Really, I'd just like some clarification on the points asked by the OP.  Come on experienced beta players!  We know you are here so why don't you answer a question that has some real bearing on whether or not many players will want to play.

  • yooriyoori Member Posts: 95

    Safe zones will be in game only during Prelude.

     

    I'm not involved in anyway with notorious-games. 

     

    Safe zones should allow more peaceful tribes build their towns and defences before warfare starts.

    Good players killing other players will become evil. Good tribes won't be able to take quests from evils tribes, trade with them or form aliances( my assumption based on what I've heard). Neutral tribes will be able to.

     

    If eveil players could respawn where they were killed there is a big possibilty of them attacking good tribe( when it is possible) and keep attacking until they're bored ruining game for people who don't want to fight.

    Things like that are in game to minimize PvP outside of war, grefing and PK'ing. when tribal warfare is introduced tribes will be able to fight eachother freely if they decide to go to war. Players will be able to fight to unconciusness( sparings) without affecting alignment.

     

    This game offers much more than PvP and isn't meant to be focused on PvP.

     

    Since there is no other game like that and I personally don't  like PvP, I would be much more comfortable knowing that not everyone exept my tribe wants to kill me.

  • SinellaSinella Member UncommonPosts: 343

    Originally posted by Drvanitus

    Did a lot of digging and a lot of searching, couldn't really find much of useful info on the alignment system in this game.  So far this is pretty much all that is known:

    1. Good and Neutral tribes get protection in their tribe area.  Evil tribes do not.

    2. Good and Neutral players respawn at the spot where they died, while Evil players are teleported to their tribal totem pole, or in case they are not in a tribe, at their starting location.

     

    So there is absolutely no incentive to be Evil?  You still can't attack people in their 'good' tribal areas? While everybody can come and attack you in yours.  Why would anybody want to be evil? Why is there even an option to be evil when it's completely biased towards good.

    What is the difference between good and neutral?  Can  you change Tribe alignment from Evil to good?  Does anybody have any clues?

    Right now good and neutral are kind of the same, difference will only show when religion is added to the game during Prelude.

    Only evil players can full loot others, thats the only incentive to be evil. Seeing other games with open PvP I'm happy Xsyon doesn't prefer and support that playstyle. As far as I see PKers don't need any incentive to kill others, they do it because "they can". In Xsyon they can, but will face with consequences, the ones you listed plus skill/stat loss if they die.

     

    If a good player kill another good or neutral one he becomes evil and facing all of the disadvantages. This system will hopefully stop griefing/ganking. The developers want max 20% of the community to choose evil, so they will shift the balance till they get their goal.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    Originally posted by Sinella

    Originally posted by Drvanitus

    Did a lot of digging and a lot of searching, couldn't really find much of useful info on the alignment system in this game.  So far this is pretty much all that is known:

    1. Good and Neutral tribes get protection in their tribe area.  Evil tribes do not.

    2. Good and Neutral players respawn at the spot where they died, while Evil players are teleported to their tribal totem pole, or in case they are not in a tribe, at their starting location.

     

    So there is absolutely no incentive to be Evil?  You still can't attack people in their 'good' tribal areas? While everybody can come and attack you in yours.  Why would anybody want to be evil? Why is there even an option to be evil when it's completely biased towards good.

    What is the difference between good and neutral?  Can  you change Tribe alignment from Evil to good?  Does anybody have any clues?

    Right now good and neutral are kind of the same, difference will only show when religion is added to the game during Prelude.

    Only evil players can full loot others, thats the only incentive to be evil. Seeing other games with open PvP I'm happy Xsyon doesn't prefer and support that playstyle. As far as I see PKers don't need any incentive to kill others, they do it because "they can". In Xsyon they can, but will face with consequences, the ones you listed plus skill/stat loss if they die.

     

    If a good player kill another good or neutral one he becomes evil and facing all of the disadvantages. This system will hopefully stop griefing/ganking. The developers want max 20% of the community to choose evil, so they will shift the balance till they get their goal.

     good to hear they have a target % in mind.

    As a Darkfall player I do understand the appeal to being a lone outlaw but it should be exactly that. In darkfall most of the game is outlawish.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • BorlucBorluc Member UncommonPosts: 262

    Thanks for speaking up betas.  That explains a lot and I think its a good direction to go with.  I didn't know that only evil characters could full loot.  I like the whole idea, because it allows players to choose, but they kind of have to stay within the morality of their character in that given moment.  A good char can't just full loot someone on a whim and also, an evil char has a chance to lose something meaninful if they go that way.

  • MelkrowMelkrow Member Posts: 278

    Originally posted by Sinella

    Originally posted by Drvanitus

    Did a lot of digging and a lot of searching, couldn't really find much of useful info on the alignment system in this game.  So far this is pretty much all that is known:

    1. Good and Neutral tribes get protection in their tribe area.  Evil tribes do not.

    2. Good and Neutral players respawn at the spot where they died, while Evil players are teleported to their tribal totem pole, or in case they are not in a tribe, at their starting location.

     

    So there is absolutely no incentive to be Evil?  You still can't attack people in their 'good' tribal areas? While everybody can come and attack you in yours.  Why would anybody want to be evil? Why is there even an option to be evil when it's completely biased towards good.

    What is the difference between good and neutral?  Can  you change Tribe alignment from Evil to good?  Does anybody have any clues?

    Right now good and neutral are kind of the same, difference will only show when religion is added to the game during Prelude.

    Only evil players can full loot others, thats the only incentive to be evil. Seeing other games with open PvP I'm happy Xsyon doesn't prefer and support that playstyle. As far as I see PKers don't need any incentive to kill others, they do it because "they can". In Xsyon they can, but will face with consequences, the ones you listed plus skill/stat loss if they die.

     

    If a good player kill another good or neutral one he becomes evil and facing all of the disadvantages. This system will hopefully stop griefing/ganking. The developers want max 20% of the community to choose evil, so they will shift the balance till they get their goal.

    This is probably the best info on the subject I've run across.  Do you have a link to a source that states only evil players can fully loot and be fully looted?  If that's true, then in my mind that's incentive enough to be Evil, all things considered.  Well, depending on how severe stat/skill loss is.  Got a link that explains that?

    Now I'm not complaining about the way Xsyon wants to do/punish/promote PVP, I'm just frustrated at the fact that such essential information is not readily available for people to read.  Every single player has their own preferences on how they would like to see this or that feature implemented and what direction the game should go in.  But the best thing that the devs can do is put all the information out there so that people can make an educated choice and decide if the game suits them or not.  Otherwise you will get people try the game and expect it to be something that it's not, because developers either lied or didn't explain their features well. 

    Case in point, Darkfall.  The retention rate of subscriber in DF is easily the lowest of any game I've been part of in the past 13+ years.  You could argue that MO is worse, but not really, people simply don't try MO nearly as much as Darkfall.  Darkfall sees so many new players and only manages to retain a microscopical amount, it's really sad.  That is in part due to fact that they straight up lie on their main website by saying things like 'no more levels, no grind, pvp accountability (lol), crafting of every ingame item (housing? lol) etc etc'.  Newbies come into the game expecting what they read on the website to be true only to be frustrated with the realization that they've been grossly lied to and quit the game.  

    Yes I'm a long term Darkfall player and love the game to death, but I'm getting tired of it and the way that AV operates, and the world of Agon is getting emptier by the day.  Maybe DF2045 will revive the game lol.



    image


    Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars
    Played: Darkfall, EVE, AoC, Ryzom, Ragnarok Online, GW2, PS2, Secret World, WOW, City Of Heroes/Villains, Champion Online.
  • SinellaSinella Member UncommonPosts: 343

    I think the thread is in the preorder-only section, but here is the content, was posted by the lead dev nearly a year ago, every person in beta can confirm the source is valid.

     

    Conflict, Death, Consequences and Decisions

    A few people have posted questions regarding PVP and death in Xsyon. I will explain the system a little more.



    PVP is open, but it has severe consequences.



    Players can choose to fight in different combat modes: to the death or to unconsciousness. (I'd love to say 'to the pain' but that's not quite right).



    In the Prelude, technically neither results in actual death.



    As religion enters the game during the prelude there will be forms of permanent death as well as resurrection but the details about this will be given later.



    In the Prelude:



    Unconsciousness results in very minor skill loss and in general the victor will be allowed to loot an item of choice as a reward for a fight well fought.



    Death results in some stat and skill loss and allows the victor to fully loot the player. This is not without complications and consequences for the victor.



    - Carrying capacity is limited, so fully looting another player will not be practical.



    - A dead or unconscious player can be looted by friends as well as enemies. Friends have the loot advantage by having a quick button to rescue select loot from a fellow player. The advantage is to players that fight in groups and players that know when to pack up and flee from a losing battle.



    - Killing or looting a person that is not in an enemy tribe will cause severe reputation loss with the other tribe and within your own tribe.



    And there’s more…



    When tribes are formed an overall tribe alignment is chosen. Players in a good or neutral tribe will automatically become outcasts if they ‘gank’ a good or neutral player of a non enemy tribe.



    Players from an evil tribe are free to loot and pillage and will gain reputation within their own tribe for doing so, but they will also be vulnerable to attacks from all players who will be able to attack evil players without negative consequences. Players in good or neutral tribes will be allowed to put bounty quests on known evil players. In essence, if a tribe chooses to be evil they become the ‘monsters’ of the world.



    Tribes can choose different levels of diplomacy with each other.



    Players from friendly or allied tribes can fight each other, but only to unconsciousness and without looting capability.



    Players from rival tribes can fight each other to unconsciousness with partial loot to the victor. Potentially the amount of looting can be agreed upon by rival tribes. (Setting the amount of looting is not currently implemented, but it’s something I am considering).



    Players from enemy tribes at war can fight to the death with full looting (Potentially tribe leaders can come to a looting agreement for this as well).



    Tribal leaders can set what actions are acceptable by their tribe members, in effect determining the laws within each tribe. Even an evil tribe may have a set of lows for its members to follow in order to maintain civil trade and exchange with other tribes.



    Two good tribes can not become enemies, they can become rivals at worst.



    Breaking the rules agreed upon by your tribes is possible but will result in a warning. If you proceed to act after the warning, your character is set to full evil mode and your reputation, alignment and karma consequences will be severe.



    But that’s not all….



    A primary worry for players is that they will loose their gear or loot. Keep in mind that in Xsyon all armor and weapons can be crafted and are thus replaceable.



    Regarding death by age, this will not occur in the Prelude. By the time any characters will age enough to reach a natural death there will be several (and I think very interesting) methods to deal with permanent death without character loss.



    I hope that answers all the questions so far.

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,150

    Edit:  Ah yes I remember reading about that.

     

    Permanent consequences are the only way to have a "natural" open PvP game.  Being able to log off to hide and respawn just makes for a mass of mindless killers and gankers in most open PvP games.

     

    I think I might even pick this game up today.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • yooriyoori Member Posts: 95

    I did some digging and found this:

    http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/32-Conflict-Death-Consequences-and-Decisions?highlight=rules

     

    It's not exactly about alignment but may clear some things

    edit: Awww, too late

  • MelkrowMelkrow Member Posts: 278

    Hey thanks guys, that really helped!! I'm probably gonna buy the game this friday, and when I play it and if it feels right, I will start a tribe and bring at least few friends with me. 



    image


    Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars
    Played: Darkfall, EVE, AoC, Ryzom, Ragnarok Online, GW2, PS2, Secret World, WOW, City Of Heroes/Villains, Champion Online.
  • GankaliciousGankalicious Member Posts: 35

    The information is a bit vague and seems to change. I put a request for info on the official forums but nothing yet.

     

    All of the above information is all well and good but in reality the combat system is just awful. I doubt any pvp lover will play for long. I love pvp, and I like Xsyon but I know I won't be pvp-ing in it. I'm giving the game a go no matter what, just because its a good idea.

     

    Problems I see- you can't target other players. You don't know if they are evil or not (as far as I can tell). You can't see their hp remaining or anything, and combat consists of:

     

    Press C.

    Righ click at target.

    That is all.

     

    I'm not trying to discourage anyone- the more the merrier, but if you like combat this isn't for you. I'm going to try to be evil, not to grief, but as a balance and a bit of a role-play.

     

    I agree with the poster above- if its meant to be purely crafting and creation, great, just say that. We're big boys and girls, we can make our own decisions based on the facts. When the facts are scarce it gets frustrating. That information posted above is a year old and a lot has changed. There will be permanent safe areas for tribes now- but not evil tribes.

     

    From what I can tell there was some serious concern (complaints) among the beta-testers about the possibility of griefers, gankers, and campers so a lot of features were changed regarding pvp. It does feel like they are trying to discourage it as much as possible. I'm fine with that but overall I think there is more exitement when there is true danger. I'm playing for the next couple of months for sure but after that we'll see where it goes.

    Free cookies at:

    www.gankalicious.blogspot.com

    Bring cookies.

  • SinellaSinella Member UncommonPosts: 343

    Can you tell what has changed ? As far as I know all of those informations are correct, the only thing I know that changed is that Karma won't be in game. Tribe areas has always been planned to be safe zones during Prelude.

  • yooriyoori Member Posts: 95

    Originally posted by Gankalicious

    The information is a bit vague and seems to change. I put a request for info on the official forums but nothing yet.

     

    All of the above information is all well and good but in reality the combat system is just awful. I doubt any pvp lover will play for long. I love pvp, and I like Xsyon but I know I won't be pvp-ing in it. I'm giving the game a go no matter what, just because its a good idea.

     

    Problems I see- you can't target other players. You don't know if they are evil or not (as far as I can tell). You can't see their hp remaining or anything, and combat consists of:

     

    Press C.

    Righ click at target.

    That is all.

     

    I'm not trying to discourage anyone- the more the merrier, but if you like combat this isn't for you. I'm going to try to be evil, not to grief, but as a balance and a bit of a role-play.

     

    I agree with the poster above- if its meant to be purely crafting and creation, great, just say that. We're big boys and girls, we can make our own decisions based on the facts. When the facts are scarce it gets frustrating. That information posted above is a year old and a lot has changed. There will be permanent safe areas for tribes now- but not evil tribes.

     

    From what I can tell there was some serious concern (complaints) among the beta-testers about the possibility of griefers, gankers, and campers so a lot of features were changed regarding pvp. It does feel like they are trying to discourage it as much as possible. I'm fine with that but overall I think there is more exitement when there is true danger. I'm playing for the next couple of months for sure but after that we'll see where it goes.

    Yes, combat is bugged, when it's fixed I hope blockig and dodging will be effective. Skill level makes difference too as animations change with it. Maybe on higher levels combat will fel better.

     

    Jooky never wanted this game to be PvP based and rules haven't changed. You are able to kill/gank someone, but be prepared to be hunted. But that's true, if you're thnking of DF and gankfest it's not a game for you.

     

    This game is not meant to be only crafting/creation, PvP outside of tribal wars is ppossible, but should be marginal. 

     

    What is fun for griefers/gankers is gamebreaking for others, thats why it has to be balanced somehow.

  • ZekiahZekiah Member UncommonPosts: 2,483

    Originally posted by yoori

    What is fun for griefers/gankers is gamebreaking for others, thats why it has to be balanced somehow.

    On that note, I was thinking about something while watching one of the YouTubes about building roads. Apparently, some a-hat decided to build an irrigation ditch through someone else's property and they had to repair it. I thought that when you started a Tribe you had a certain area around your flag that was a safe zone, am I wrong? I imagine people are going to get a little upset when some idiot griefer comes tearing up their Tribe lands when nobody is online.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • yooriyoori Member Posts: 95

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Originally posted by yoori

    What is fun for griefers/gankers is gamebreaking for others, thats why it has to be balanced somehow.

    On that note, I was thinking about something while watching one of the YouTubes about building roads. Apparently, some a-hat decided to build an irrigation ditch through someone else's property and they had to repair it. I thought that when you started a Tribe you had a certain area around your flag that was a safe zone, am I wrong? I imagine people are going to get a little upset when some idiot griefer comes tearing up their Tribe lands when nobody is online.

    Tribal groud is protected terraform can only a person with permission from tribe leader.

     

    Some one in his tribe was just playing and made a ditch. You have to watch out with permissions once the game goes live.

  • ZekiahZekiah Member UncommonPosts: 2,483

    Originally posted by yoori

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Originally posted by yoori

    What is fun for griefers/gankers is gamebreaking for others, thats why it has to be balanced somehow.

    On that note, I was thinking about something while watching one of the YouTubes about building roads. Apparently, some a-hat decided to build an irrigation ditch through someone else's property and they had to repair it. I thought that when you started a Tribe you had a certain area around your flag that was a safe zone, am I wrong? I imagine people are going to get a little upset when some idiot griefer comes tearing up their Tribe lands when nobody is online.

    Tribal groud is protected terraform can only a person with permission from tribe leader.

     

    Some one in his tribe was just playing and made a ditch. You have to watch out with permissions once the game goes live.

    Ahh ok good. I'd hate to see some of the ridiculous griefing I've seen in Minecraft.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • SorrowSorrow Member Posts: 1,195

    Sigh you guys have actually managed to convince me to buy this... good job : P

    image

  • ubermutubermut Member UncommonPosts: 275

    Originally posted by Sorrow

    Sigh you guys have actually managed to convince me to buy this... good job : P

    find a tribe. its a rough world in there on your own.  :)

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