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Rifts "Soul" System. Potential problem?
I was thinking about the soul system today and it occured to me. You really only need to create 4 characters. A mage,warrior, rogue and cleric. They can all quest to get the full set of souls available for their callings. That means less alts. Nobody is going to start a new cleric if they already have a high level one they can just reshape, keeping their levels and gear.
How is that going to influence the flow of new subscribers to offset those that periodically leave the game. Whom are they going to group with on the way to the top once the game has gotten 6 months+ on its belt? Other new subscribers?. It's a well known fact that a lot of potential parties is made grouping with peoples alts.
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All starter zones will have higher lvl content so there will be people there. They might have a lower lvl character to help new players.
Also, there are items in the game that summon allies to help take down rifts. Since the rifts "should" scale to whoever is in the area players should be able to defeat them.
But it's a good point and we'll just have to see.
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This is a valid point. If the game doesn't get new subs every so often, this will be an issue. Scaling of rifts won't solve this problem. The only thing I can think of working if new players don't join is how fast are people going to level? I know a lot of players in my guild are planning on rolling 4 characters. Many are planning on doing this and have never done many alts before. If the majority of players roll alts in an expanded time and doesn't try to power level, the game will be sustained for a good 6-8 months at the very least of low level characters. After a year's time though, this issue will definitely be a problem.
Yeah, I love to make alts and I guess you could call me an altoholic, but I see no reason to make more than 4 characters myself, maybe 8 at max. For both the reason you said, but also because there are only 2 beginner zones, and not many other paths. 2 characters to do the questing, 2 to be rift chasers, I doubt I'd be willing to make more than that, maybe someone to be a grinder...
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I am not too worried about this one. I play MMO's pretty heavily, and even in the games I have invested over a year in (LOTRO) I don't have more than two characters at max level. I bet if you looked at how many MMO gamers have more than four high level characters on one account... there wouldn't be very many.
I'm one of those odd people that don't make alts as well. Well, unless I'm forced to. But that only leads me to eventually leave the particular game that forced me to create alts.
The people who like to make on toon of every class should rejoyce that they only have to make four toons and unlock all the souls, in essence with four specs each you are making sixteen unique characters across four toons.
I did notice on the beta server PvP you could make Guardian and Defiant on the same shard.
So you could make one of each class for each faction for a total of eight toons with four specs each for a total of thirty two unique characters across eight toons.
Or make a character of each race etc. etc.
I really don't see how "only four" is a bad thing.
Not to mention the crafting system you get three professions, so you could easily have every single crafting and gathering profession streched across your four different toons.
How many people would make multiple copies of the same character class to begin with? For that matter, how many people are going to create more than 4 characters because they actually want to instead of because they have to? I think the population of voluntary altaholics is a fairly small percentage of the overall population. I think this fits in with Trion's general take on the game which is players doing what they want because they want to, not because the game forces them to do so.
Others have pointed out some mechanics in place in the game to help low level players that start later in the game's life, whether they are alts or new players. Trion is operating with some hindsight, since the industry has lots of examples of stuff that works and stuff that doesn't. I think it'll be OK, but really we'll have to wait and see.
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I already noticed this last weekend (beta6) when I created my 6th alt. Since I have no cash to re-spec, re-rolling is faster way to get a good feel with the soul system. In the beginning are, I find myself alone fighting the last boss compare to 5-10 players with my first character. And during Rift battle, the number of players varies and it's hard to pin point the source of this problem. Either all players are higher level than my alt or there's just too many open rifts. But the number of players fighting the Rift is small compare to my first characters.
What concerns me is, if there's not enough player to fight in the rifts event...those who are trying to level up is kinda stuck since those rifts opens where people are trying to level up, which is a major issue in my book.
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@jvx: Once you get outside of the starting area, the Rifts are scaled depending on how many people are in the area. So if you are the only person in the area, the Rift will be weak enough so you can close it yourself.
If you are talking about the last fight in the newbie area, it doesn't really count as a Rift. It's just a part of the starting tutorial - things change once you hit level 7 and get out of there.
I guess it depends on how much they scale back on the rift spawns come launch. But that could cause other issues also seeing that rifts are the best way to lvl. One way to solve that would be to improve the questing.
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If you noticed rift appearance and level range is not really random. It follows both zone population and level range. Their position also coinsides with the general level of mobs found in the area. So a level 17 rift won't spawn in an area with level 12 mobs. Elite and non elite rifts (ie major and minor rifts) follow the same rules of player population.
I wouldn't worry about rifts making the map unplayable for questers. In the 30+ areas there were no rifts at the beginning, then tears started appearing, then minor rifts, then rarely a major rift. Then Trion created an invasion for beta 6 test purposes and all hell broke lose hehe.
I remember this coming up in another thread recently (not the OT of the thread, but coming up during the discussion), and it was somewhat of a dark epiphany.
Yes, as far rifts - it appears covered for the person coming along fresh or with an alt. But what about PvP and dungeons?
As an aside, I can see having more than just the potential 8 toons spread across servers to cover the 4 Guardian/4 Defiant approach. Who does not have the "same" character on multiple servers so they can take a break from the drama on their main server?
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Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
To be hones, i was maxed in pretty much all betas and i did run around starting maps and did rifts.
(i eaven helped random group finish garden of fae when i was level 30)
If i saw some rift with a few lowbies, i did help them.
I bet guilds look around for new members, if they want new people and for that they could always look at newbies area and help them. I have played plenty of mmorpgs and there are guilds specially to help newbies.
Also everyone can see low levels talk in chat, and if someone needs help im pretty sure someone will help them.
I had wondered if they were going to "fix" that. People looking for help with something at a higher level while posting in Level 1-9 was kind of funny at first, then it was kind of annoying, and then it got downright tedious to the point of being meaningless spam for those Level 1-9.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
What concerns me is, if there's not enough player to fight in the rifts event...those who are trying to level up is kinda stuck since those rifts opens where people are trying to level up, which is a major issue in my book.
This would be an extreme case. Way extreme.
First though, when are you respecing your character? You can't even get more souls until around level 15. Seems like it would make more sense to get one guy to 15, get all 8 souls and then play around with them. Especially since you won't have very many points to play with at level 7. At level 15 I had enough money for a mount, another build and enough respecs to at least see all the different souls on my Cleric. I had 4 different builds going, used all 8 souls and never had less than a platinum (1000 of the "gold" coins) in money. In the open beta, just get to 15. I think you'll get more done in a shorter period of time.
Second, did rolling the alts give you any impression as to the character limit? I'm curious. I don't see myself rolling more than 4 characters, but I wonder what the limit is.
Finally, the beta event has an artificially limited population. Fewer people will roll alts because of the limited play time and once all the invites go out, that's it. No new people will join the game. The open beta might give a better idea of how many new characters being rolled over time, but even then it's not the same as three to five months after launch.
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I don't know about melee classes but cleric was always able to solo rifts, invasions.
Im pretty sure once the big mass has moved from the starting maps, there wont be as many invasions anymore.
So to put these 2 together, if theres low population at level 1-20 area - you can always take rift to lets say stage 3 and pretty much kill it, you can also clean up quest villages from invasion from distance, or just hit and run (they dont get hp back).
About these big invasions it is possible to clean that event with just 10 people, like we did on the 30+ area.
We also did duo level 25 istance to last boss in beta 5. (cleric + tank).
I do not see a problem with low population, i'm pretty sure the game will not die anytime soon.
Atleast i do hope so.
There is option for that- right click and go configure, you could turn 1-9, 10-19 etc chat off.
The concern is not about the game having low populations, but rather that the game will be top heavy with barren areas for new players as they come along or for those late to creating an alt.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I know that I can turn it off. I meant as far as when a person reaches level 10, they leave 1-9. They are no longer level 1-9, etc. People in 1-9 did not need to see folks spamming for IT, Fae, etc.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Oh right but thats their fault they used /4 instead of /5, /6, /7.
I find it useful that we can talk to everyone in chat though.
I have played games without global chat and it does get boring and lonely on deserted map.
So all those are just for beta. lol.
Dang, they got me thinking that they will be there at launch. I was thinking of how on Earth do they allow level 18 elite mobs runs around level 10 area and one shotting everyone.
But yeah I was there when that huge level 20 elite treefolk was killing everyone.
About the Rifts scaling: that's nice to know since I favor alt over re-spec.
I'm already thinking of buying this game and my only issue is the monthly fee, but since I get a free month for buying the game, I'm getting it. Better than spending more money in WoW and practically getting nothing.
Ready for GW2!!!
Ur myopic...
What if they wish to play a different race (ie: racial abilities), or on a new server, or with a different faction? just sayin' ...
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this might be the first valid point ive seen about a potential problem with the game down the line. although i think it is a minor point and not something major. i leveled up a new character in wow last year when i switched to a friends server and saw maybe 10 people questing all the way from 1 to 70, and not much more than that in northrend either. all games have this problem and quite frankly it hasnt hurt many of them if any of them. as far as the rifts i closed several rifts by myself last weekend and they wasnt that tough, a few of them people showed up to help and i wanted them to go away so i could do it by myself. rifts scale based on the people in the general area where it opens and based on how many are in the zone so i dont think it will be a problem, plus you can always get a guildie to help you out with quests, only one quest line in freemarch involves elites and i think most people will miss those cause it is out of the way, im just a explorer so most of this game you can do solo anyway even the rifts.
I just don't hope that will be the case. I just don't see people rolling alts to try out new races except a very very few. I guess that depends on how interesting they will make the racials. I doubt it will be enough to reroll a class you already have.
As for WoW and other MMOs not having that problem. They had time to establish themselves giving everybody time to experience grouping between beginning to endgame over the course of a few years. There really isn't any similarities that can be made there because of that.
I also see people bringing up Rifts and how grouping won't be a problem even with a low lowlevel population. Even though the rifts are one of the main selling points, I think people would be turned off by a barren low/mid range population for questing, getting the higher tier planar stones and the dungeon runs.
Even if you can/will roll 4 alts on both sides it still equals 4 if you can follow my logic. The two factions don't group together hence creating alts will still stagnate earlier than other MMOs I think. Last Beta it cost me 10g to respec a level 20 character. That's affordable over making an alt.
As I said I'm already sold on the game so I really hope this won't be the case. Trion must have something up their sleeve. I refuse to believe they are this shortsighted
Rifts soul system brings a lot of unique issues to the game.
Its blurring of class roles has renderd an entire class absolutly useless.
It creates the situation where people can, on the fly, switch into their premade "pvp build" meaning that once that build becomes populair, look for everyone in the class to have those souls active in pvp, with the same build on it. You would be stupid to come to a pvp event in your questing pve build, fun or not.
And apparently, trion is just realizing the issue with having a tank ready warrior top or near top DPS in both melee and surprisingly spell damage (yes they can cast magic too)
Trion is making steps to bring the melee rogues somewhat up to par on the dps that a tank can dish out, however its never gonna fix the issue that its a tank, and it has by far the most survivability in game. Did they not expect issues when the class with the most survivability now does some of the best DPS in game?
So as it stands the best setup is going to consist of range DPS from rogues, melee dps fromn warriors, heals and support and dps from clerics....and of course a specific tank build warrior. Now other classes can do other roles, but this is the setup that works each class role to their highest potential, any raid looking to be competative will fill their raid up with the following 3 classes doing 4 roles. Theres going to be a lot of builds and an entire class thats going to have a hard time getting into any halfway decent raid or pvp group, unless they conform to the above mentioned class roles, people wont settle for second best come endgame, and its going to suck if you dont bring the right weapon to the table.
Class balance is going to be the undoing of Rift, its already starting...