To be honest with you I tired of being a hero in MMOs and being able to save the world while eating my dinner. I look forward to a developer who is going to create a MMO where your every day will be an atmospheric battle for survival and where you will be as often fight as running for your life. I hope for maybe a post-apo title in this mood.
To be honest with you I tired of being a hero in MMOs and being able to save the world while eating my dinner. I look forward to a developer who is going to create a MMO where your every day will be an atmospheric battle for survival and where you will be as often fight as running for your life. I hope for maybe a post-apo title in this mood.
Technically the human race in gw2 is going to be like that. They have been pushed back and lost most of their land and are far outnumbered by their racial enemies.
@Dublaith: Thanks for the clarification. I think they're trying to do several things, just as their features show they're not just trying to progress 1 or 2 features into a new direction but all those they can put their hands on and for which they've found alternate ways.
The DE system is meant as an upgrade to the regular quest system, where in other MMO's you go around and take on your quests but the world itself isn't actually changing.
With the Personal Story they're trying to revive the RPG in 'MMORPG', but then RPG as in reference to RPG games, not roleplay.
What made singleplayer RPG's special has gotten slowly lost in the current batch of MMORPG's, up to the point that describing them as just 'MMO games' would be better: quests, doing missions in MMO's is a far cry from the story immersive progression as seen in singleplayer RPG's. The Personal Story should bring some of that into their MMORPG GW2.
As for 'low fantasy' vs 'high fantasy', there's a difference in approach, that's true, but you won't see many storylines being done via quest lines in MMO's where in the end you don't end up doing something heroic or where you don't slay a named boss that with you a multitude of players slayes as well. It's inherent to quests, and yes, if they want to make it grand, you'll be going against the Big Bads, because a lot if not most players want to do that, they want to fight the named, infamous (and unique) dragons, and they want to fight against Arthas.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Nice to see such well thought out posts about RP, a rarity
It is problematic, if I wish to RP my stories then everyone around me needs to tread as carefully as I so that our overlapping personal stories don't throw an almighty spanner in the works of my immersion. A lot depends on how you RP, for me it will be less about the story of the game and more about background and my characters personality. Out in the persistent world away from my personal story line all will be fine until others start to use their personal story lines as their own RP story. The trick is going to be one of bluffing myself and others by not using anything from the story Anet has written for me, something that most RP players are used to doing anyway, my stories will come from elements in the world with my own stories based on characters and event areas, doing it that way should leave me mostly 'safe'.
I'll be acting on my characters personality and his/her relationship to the world, with that at least there are simple tools that allow my character to develop traits which will affect how NPC's relate to me, something I haven't had before.
Well, I ultimately disagree with the notion that RPing in an MMORPG is by necessity different than RPing in a single-player RPG. It certainly can be - that isone of its strengths - but I don't play MMOs for the opportunity to RP with other players. I play MMOs to approximate a single-player-rpg experience alongside the people I want to play with. I don't like single-player RPGs, as they seem lonely and claustrophobic to me, so MMOs are the only way I can play one with friends.
From that perspective, I genuinely don't care if my husband and I both get to kill the dragon. I got to kill it, and that's what's important to me. Later, I will help him kill it, and it will be important to him. Thankfully, whether ArenaNet knows that people like me exist or not, their game feels almost catered exactly to me.
Since the thread already got slightly derailed to RP'ing I'd like to express a concern there before returning to the original topic.
My concern is with the combat dynamics and the fluid ability to change between damage/control/support roles. Does this concern anyone else about the ability to RP? For instance, what if your RP character is the savage, blood-lusty type that just wants to kill and do damage, but instead you end up forced to be control because of what your group needs. Do you just continue to RP your blood-thirsty warrior and eventually your group will wipe because of it, or do you cave to the situation, or find a different group?
For me this is highlighted by the elementalist attunement system. I usually RP a lightning mage (preferably a combat/melee mage--but since no swords on ele this time around...) but it would seem like thats not going to be an option because most groups are going to expect me to swap attunements to throw out control and support.
Back to the OP, I think the Anet's writers will have a sufficient personal story for one to achieve that individual hero feeling, but I think the main attraction for the heroics are the Dynamic Event bosses. I feel the the ones they have shown are big enough to demand group action; i.e. a group of heroes. There is no individual hero that could face down the shatterer and live (IMO). The same with the elder dragons--everyone is going to need to be heroic in order to face them, and I'm ok with that. They are just huge and primeval enough for it to give everyone a sense of achievement when they are defeated.
Overall Anet's approach has more pluses than minus. 1. Personal Story 2. Global Story ie personal transformation from humble roots towards connecting with a larger story than your own story : ) How do they reconcile these? That could be very cool in story fashion eg Destiny's Edge?! In game-play ie separating Permanenent and persistent. Ie 2 work differently and also allow a story to be acting out differently.
RP's will always run into blocks outside sandbox but a really detailed mythopeia should be a lot of fun nonetheless!
@therez0 I'd accept the increased difficulty of the dungeon / whatever in exchange for increased immersion, especially as everyone in the team will be able to adapt anyway to fill any gaps in the party.
As well as that if you went full lightning, you'd have traits and stats designed to improve your lightning even more, you'd be better as a focused lightning ele than any varied ele would be.
maybe if you roll with roleplayers you'd end up having more fun, and just suspend disbelief if you're not (i'm sure you're used to doing this around non-roleplayers anyway and that personal story thing will force that anyway)
I am concerned about Guild Wars 2. Very concerned indeed.
JK.
ArenaNet already pulled off the heroic feel with personal cutscenes and small-scale missions in Guild Wars; they'll accomplish the same and more in Guild Wars 2.
Of course everyone is the hero, why would you event want it otherwise? In fact I was kind of insulted when the end video of Guild Wars: Eye of the North has Ogden talking about the legends and then shows the EOTN heroes and instead of my character. Actually the major flaw in that video is when Ogden talks about the children of the legends having to deal with the next big threat when the next big threat is actually several generations away, but I figured that when they made that video they didn't know they would be jumping 250 years into the future.
Comments
To be honest with you I tired of being a hero in MMOs and being able to save the world while eating my dinner. I look forward to a developer who is going to create a MMO where your every day will be an atmospheric battle for survival and where you will be as often fight as running for your life. I hope for maybe a post-apo title in this mood.
Technically the human race in gw2 is going to be like that. They have been pushed back and lost most of their land and are far outnumbered by their racial enemies.
@Dublaith: Thanks for the clarification. I think they're trying to do several things, just as their features show they're not just trying to progress 1 or 2 features into a new direction but all those they can put their hands on and for which they've found alternate ways.
The DE system is meant as an upgrade to the regular quest system, where in other MMO's you go around and take on your quests but the world itself isn't actually changing.
With the Personal Story they're trying to revive the RPG in 'MMORPG', but then RPG as in reference to RPG games, not roleplay.
What made singleplayer RPG's special has gotten slowly lost in the current batch of MMORPG's, up to the point that describing them as just 'MMO games' would be better: quests, doing missions in MMO's is a far cry from the story immersive progression as seen in singleplayer RPG's. The Personal Story should bring some of that into their MMORPG GW2.
As for 'low fantasy' vs 'high fantasy', there's a difference in approach, that's true, but you won't see many storylines being done via quest lines in MMO's where in the end you don't end up doing something heroic or where you don't slay a named boss that with you a multitude of players slayes as well. It's inherent to quests, and yes, if they want to make it grand, you'll be going against the Big Bads, because a lot if not most players want to do that, they want to fight the named, infamous (and unique) dragons, and they want to fight against Arthas.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Nice to see such well thought out posts about RP, a rarity
It is problematic, if I wish to RP my stories then everyone around me needs to tread as carefully as I so that our overlapping personal stories don't throw an almighty spanner in the works of my immersion. A lot depends on how you RP, for me it will be less about the story of the game and more about background and my characters personality. Out in the persistent world away from my personal story line all will be fine until others start to use their personal story lines as their own RP story. The trick is going to be one of bluffing myself and others by not using anything from the story Anet has written for me, something that most RP players are used to doing anyway, my stories will come from elements in the world with my own stories based on characters and event areas, doing it that way should leave me mostly 'safe'.
I'll be acting on my characters personality and his/her relationship to the world, with that at least there are simple tools that allow my character to develop traits which will affect how NPC's relate to me, something I haven't had before.
Well, I ultimately disagree with the notion that RPing in an MMORPG is by necessity different than RPing in a single-player RPG. It certainly can be - that isone of its strengths - but I don't play MMOs for the opportunity to RP with other players. I play MMOs to approximate a single-player-rpg experience alongside the people I want to play with. I don't like single-player RPGs, as they seem lonely and claustrophobic to me, so MMOs are the only way I can play one with friends.
From that perspective, I genuinely don't care if my husband and I both get to kill the dragon. I got to kill it, and that's what's important to me. Later, I will help him kill it, and it will be important to him. Thankfully, whether ArenaNet knows that people like me exist or not, their game feels almost catered exactly to me.
Since the thread already got slightly derailed to RP'ing I'd like to express a concern there before returning to the original topic.
My concern is with the combat dynamics and the fluid ability to change between damage/control/support roles. Does this concern anyone else about the ability to RP? For instance, what if your RP character is the savage, blood-lusty type that just wants to kill and do damage, but instead you end up forced to be control because of what your group needs. Do you just continue to RP your blood-thirsty warrior and eventually your group will wipe because of it, or do you cave to the situation, or find a different group?
For me this is highlighted by the elementalist attunement system. I usually RP a lightning mage (preferably a combat/melee mage--but since no swords on ele this time around...) but it would seem like thats not going to be an option because most groups are going to expect me to swap attunements to throw out control and support.
Back to the OP, I think the Anet's writers will have a sufficient personal story for one to achieve that individual hero feeling, but I think the main attraction for the heroics are the Dynamic Event bosses. I feel the the ones they have shown are big enough to demand group action; i.e. a group of heroes. There is no individual hero that could face down the shatterer and live (IMO). The same with the elder dragons--everyone is going to need to be heroic in order to face them, and I'm ok with that. They are just huge and primeval enough for it to give everyone a sense of achievement when they are defeated.
Overall Anet's approach has more pluses than minus. 1. Personal Story 2. Global Story ie personal transformation from humble roots towards connecting with a larger story than your own story : ) How do they reconcile these? That could be very cool in story fashion eg Destiny's Edge?! In game-play ie separating Permanenent and persistent. Ie 2 work differently and also allow a story to be acting out differently.
RP's will always run into blocks outside sandbox but a really detailed mythopeia should be a lot of fun nonetheless!
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
@therez0 I'd accept the increased difficulty of the dungeon / whatever in exchange for increased immersion, especially as everyone in the team will be able to adapt anyway to fill any gaps in the party.
As well as that if you went full lightning, you'd have traits and stats designed to improve your lightning even more, you'd be better as a focused lightning ele than any varied ele would be.
maybe if you roll with roleplayers you'd end up having more fun, and just suspend disbelief if you're not (i'm sure you're used to doing this around non-roleplayers anyway and that personal story thing will force that anyway)
<Welcome to my world>
I am concerned about Guild Wars 2. Very concerned indeed.
JK.
ArenaNet already pulled off the heroic feel with personal cutscenes and small-scale missions in Guild Wars; they'll accomplish the same and more in Guild Wars 2.
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/personal-stories/personal-story-overview/
Of course everyone is the hero, why would you event want it otherwise? In fact I was kind of insulted when the end video of Guild Wars: Eye of the North has Ogden talking about the legends and then shows the EOTN heroes and instead of my character. Actually the major flaw in that video is when Ogden talks about the children of the legends having to deal with the next big threat when the next big threat is actually several generations away, but I figured that when they made that video they didn't know they would be jumping 250 years into the future.