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Need bigger worlds in MMO's
Joshua69
Member UncommonPosts: 953
Back in EverQUest I remember spending an entire day in real life getting from Faydwer to the Erudite Capital. Zones were obsurdly large. Zone times didn't help either. And the boat rides. Riding a boat for 20 minutes just to get to a barge to get on another 20 minute boat rid, not including waiting for the boats haha. As annoying as it was, that was srsly the best MMO expierence ever.
Comments
Quoted for Truth.
I have said it many times; modern MMOs lack immersion, but abound with accessibility.
Unfortunately, that old saying is true... You can never really go home again.
True mages don't die. They strategically miscalculate.
I remember my first barbarian starting out in the snowy mountains. It was a major accomplishment just getting to the other side of Blackburrow. I felt like I was so far from home.
You'd think there was a real estate shortage in newer games!
I remember in WoW when I just used to have to talk to the dockmaster to get to my destination and just had to wait on the loading screen as my position changed. Then they changed it so that I had to wait for the boat to come, had to wait for the boat to leave...then wait on the loading screen...and finally wait for the boat to arrive.
You know, I miss just talking to the dockmaster.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Yes, I remember those Everquest trips fondly also. Running through Highpass to get to Freeport was a huge adventure. However, I would never play a game with travel times like that today. The market has moved away from that for a reason. Immersion is great, but who has the time for that anymore? Not enough to make that type profitable.
It wasnt that the zones were gigantic compared to today's MMO's as much as there was just much less quick travel options. No idea how much money I spent tipping wizards and druids, but it was a ton.
yeah devs have gotten really LAZY lately in MMOs hell Everquest Online Adventures is bigger than 95% of the MMOs released now and that was a PS2 MMO with NO hard-drive! the whole game was read off 1 dvd and was a completely open world with no instances, well the Frontiers expac you had to boat to (only loading zone in teh game). would take you hours to run from Free Port to HIgh Pass. having to run around mobs 30+ levels above you and if they aggroed you might as well gave up because they would chase you across the entire zone, some times multiple zones.
Unfortunately, it's that level of impatience that drives MMO devs towards instant gratification and accessibility, rather than immersion.
Would I like to be able to instantly teleport to work in the morning, without my hour long commute from MD to VA? HELL YES I WOULD!
But I prefer that, in a game set in a fantasy world dominated by armor and martial weapons, we have SOME limitations. I'd like SOMETHING about the game to be difficult! Without challange, there is no reward! Accessibility is killing the MMORPGs of the day, in my opinion.
True mages don't die. They strategically miscalculate.
It was kind of funny (and sad) to see people complaining about how long it takes to travel around in RIFT. Have to wonder if they will continue to allow people to use the basic mount (or turtle mount) starting at level 1 (or as soon as they can afford the price).
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I also think games should have huge worlds, like Anarchy Online does for example. Rubi-ka and Shadowlands it was and still is just awesome.
Btw, which mmo has the biggest playfield (besides EvE).
I really do hope they reinstate the lvl 20 requirement.
Of course, I still hold out hope that they'll get rid of that stupid ugly damned turtle, and just give us a horse... Hell, i'd settle for a bicycle. That turtle is just darn FUGLY.
True mages don't die. They strategically miscalculate.
Hard to say...
RIFT isn't huge, but it's a decent sized world. Asheron's Call is pretty freakin big, but still nothing compared to EQ travel times (you ran REALLY fast in AC), and of crouse theres EQ; pretty freakin big world, there. Vanguard has a decent size world, too.
It's really hard to say.
True mages don't die. They strategically miscalculate.
There's already a thread in the vicinity that can answer your question.
I played EvE for two months, I was deffinatly impressed. As far as I could tell, it was infinate
I don't think the issue is with people not having time for it. The issue, rather, is with the idea of character progression completely taking the place of "fun". In the morning, you're level 50. By the end of the day, if you're level 52, you had a good day. If you're level 55, you had a fantastic day. If you're still level 50, why? Were you raising one of your craftskills all day long? Were you gathering or farming materials? Were you racking up some PvP points to turn in for gear? Were you working on completing more achievements?
In so many ways, the system is set up to reward us for time that we spend in game working towards some cause — it makes sense that games have headed in this direction, because rewarding players is the surest way to keep them playing. Whether it's better equipment, a higher level, new abilities, or your name in lights on a scoreboard, the game tries desperately to reward you for whatever time you spend constructively. But the result of this is that all those forms of character progression become our only way of recognizing what's fun.
Who has time for running from Qeynos to Freeport anymore? People have time, no question about that. You don't even have to be on the high end of the casual spectrum to find yourself setting aside eighty hours for an MMO over the course of a month. The problem with hour long travel times isn't that it's not fun, but that according to the game it's not rewarding. It doesn't progress your character. There's no pot of coins waiting for you at Freeport because it took so long to do, no magic gauntlets, no gold star on your character sheet, no increased faction standing, no title next to your name for bragging rights. With so many things that you can do to advance your character in some way, spending time doing something fun without making progress feels like the game is screaming at you, "THAT WAS A WASTE OF TIME! IT DIDN'T MAKE YOU STRONGER SO IT WASN'T FUN!"
On the general topic of making games with bigger worlds, I don't think that is a solution in and of itself. I think it can take a lot of enjoyment away if not done right. And I think in order to do it right, you'd need to center the game around the largeness of the world. Traversing the large world would need to be part of the core gameplay, and you'd have to find a playerbase that was into that sort of game.
I think a full days playing to get from area A to B is too long.
There must be some middleway between really small zones with auto travel and spending ages travelling.
EQ didn't get the stuff right so other devs tried to shorten down the time but they didn't know when to stop and instead the problem is the opposite today.
Immersion is important but there are limits. As I see it my only 2 choices for food is MacDonalds and this French resturant with 3 stars in Guide Michellin now. I don't want a Bigmac or froglegs, I just want regular food.
I want something in between, a game were it still feels massive but I don't spend 10 times as much time travelling or waiting for a party member to get to the dungeon as I spend adventuring.
I think mounts are the answer. Teleporting is too quick, but having mounts in large worlds immerses you. And when you aren't immersed enough, so, to say, like World of Warcraft because the areas are too small, the solution is simple: stop using the mount.
Some people didn't like this game, and it crashed and burned (More literally than usual, considering the subgenre) rather quickly, but one thing I really liked was...
... the travel in Auto Assault.
Whoo! You could do stunts that earned you xp and were just fun to do in and of themselves! You could try and cut down on your driving time.... maybe if you try really hard, you can jump that canyon! Travelling was a joy, rather than a chore in that game. Oh, and you could totally drive over little people on the way, which netted you xp AND was always a hilarious way to kill somebody.
Immersion is cool and all, but it's nice when the game gives a nod towards the fact that you're playing a game, rather than trying to live in another world.
Travel should be made as fun and engaging as possible. Why not? If I wanted to experience real travel times, I'd go for a jog around town, and actually get healthier.
Whats the point of having a huge world if its filled with alot of nothing....
There needs to be a good balance between size and content....
That's because newer MMOs aren't trying to be immersive virtual worlds. They're just games. Instant gratification games with the semblance of multiplayer to justify the monthly fee.
... that reminds me of talking with a friend, where I suggested that the ultimate streamlining of MMO design would be you standing in a small (Somewhere between closet and apartment bedroom) room next to a button and a guy behind a stall. When you press the button, a monster drops out of the ceiling, you kill it. (Possibly to the accompaniment of a quick text blurb for some RPG flavor. 'You are quested to destroy this rat, which has been eating grain from the local orphanage') Then you loot the rat, turn 90 degrees to the right, sell whatever you got to the guy behind the booth, and if you can afford it, buy better equipment.
Rinse and repeat.
LOL
You could give it an equally creative name Operant Conditioning Chamber. It could be a whole new genre of MMOOCC. Add some optional wall decorations and you could claim it has player housing! You just gotta make sure you have some windows so you can see the other cages...er homes... of the other players just so it will pass off as Massively Multiplayer.
Million dollar idea right there and its just gonna pass right by all these potentially enterprising entrepreneurs. :P
Oh yeah! I did totally forget to mention that all the rooms have those big windows like in an office room. I mean yeah, watching rats drop out of other people's ceilings is the whole massively multiplayer aspect!
Thanks for reminding me, I can't believe I forgot to talk about the part that keeps people from complaining it's not an MMO.
I do like the idea of being able to buy things from the vendor like motivational posters (A picture of a waist high pile of dead rats with the text - 'PERSEVERANCE: That's why your neighbor has better stuff') to customize your room with! Player housing. Sheer genius, sir.
I really loved the huge and vast world in Dark&Light the size of that world were alittle bigger then Denmark to bad the game flopped.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
ya. afking for 20 min is very fun
Don't forget that the guy behind the counter should take real money for things like yellow balloon giraffes to proudly display in your window.
Then, after a while, they change the color to a pink balloon giraffe and everyone else sees it and goes
"OMGIt'sPink! It's a PINGK 1!" and starts shelling out more of their money....to the man behind the counter.
Once upon a time....
Immersion is not only about size and travel time, but it does matter.
I think what Immersion boils down to is, if it is a beleivable world, and within its rules I can roam freely.
Do I beleive a npc has set up a camp in eye sight of the voilent tribe of gnolls ? No that doesnt make sense.
Do I beleive that the gnolls who are camped far out in the wilds, are attacking caravans and a npc in town ask me to protect a caravan carrying his goods ? Yes I do.
Do I beleive dark things secretly roam the sewers as a part of a greater scheme ? That is plausible aswell.
Do I beleive a strange world with magic and dragons has christmas and valentines day ? Not very likely.
Do I beleive I can turn in these 20 badges and a guy give me a super magic sword ? Only if there was a good explanation to why badges were so important to him.
For example WoW vanilla had some immersion, it was cartoonish but mostly I beleived in the world though it werent huge - WoW nowadays you click a questgiver, turn around and shoot then turn around again and turn in quest. I dont know if it is the story driven thing that caused this, but it certainly doesnt help.
Vanguard had no travelling shortcuts at first, and then a gate network was introduced. Many were strongly against this and argued it messed with Immersion. I thought it needed a gate network because the playability was too low for my taste, however the way it was just there without any reasons I didnt like (Everquest had ancient druid rings as an explanation and that I could beleive). So as always, different taste and how tight the world has to fit with its ideas vs playability.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0