MMOs are about perspective. Usually, when a person starts an MMO for the first time and it is ALSO their first MMO they tend to like it the most. This is simply because this is all they've ever known. Their perspective is only focused on what they have now. If you only have 1 thing then that's the best you'll ever have.
A person gets into the game...levels up, gets weapons, is involved in the community...etc. A new MMO comes on line. Depending on how long a person has played and biased they've become determines how that new MMO will be received. Comparisons between MMOs can ONLY happen when people have played two or more MMOs. So, a person's first MMO will usually cause them to be biased to that one and no other MMO will ever "live up to" their favorite. Hell, it doesn't even matter if they are fundamentaly different games, only that they have MMO as a description.
This is a great insight, and one I've considered many times when approaching new MMORPGs. Technically Shadowbane was my first MMO, but since I remember nothing about it, it doesn’t count. I played both EQ2 and WoW simultaneously during their launch, and eventually settled on EQ2 being my favorite of the two. Warcraft and I just didn’t click. The cartoony graphics, the crafting system, the community, the quests—none of it felt right for me. It bored me. I tried to give it a chance over the years because it was the “popular” option (and most of my friends were avid players), but after level 25 and several alts it never grabbed me the way EQ2 does.
My fondest early memory of EQ2 revolves around retrieving my spirit shard from the bottom of Fallen Gate. This was back in the day when spirit shards were an issue, along with the massive experience debt (now removed). It was a source of intense frustration and triumph, and probably why Fallen Gate continues to be one of my favorite zones.
After several months of playing, unfortunately, I had to put EQ2 down (college took up a lot of my time and money). I’d be back.
During that lull, I tried other MMOs. I did a trial of City of Heroes with my friends (meh). I experimented with Guild Wars (nice graphics, but a dull, dancing community and the solo aspect didn’t give me the MMO feel I wanted). I tried WoW again with another friend and quickly gave up. All the while, I kept thinking, “God, EQ2 did this better.”
So I went back to a revamped EQ2. Loved it, but I had accidently rolled on a PvP/Station Exchange server (I wasn’t experienced with PVP at the time), so after several months of trying to make it work, I sold my characters and left with a sour taste in my mouth. Later, when Kunark came out, I rolled on a PVE server and began to enjoy myself again.
After I maxed out my toons, I tried other MMOs. My first sandbox was EVE, and I adored it. It felt like the polar opposite of EQ2. I loved the complexity of the skills and crafting system, the economy, the steep learning curve. I liked that I could avoid PVP if I wanted and opt in when I was ready.
Apparently many people who play EVE also keep another game on the side. And I can see why. After several months of staring at the back of my ship, drifting through the void of space, I was beginning to miss the character aspect. After experimenting with other MMOs, I discovered Fallen Earth. Post apocalyptic setting. Sandbox. Decent character customization. Mature rating. I was devoted to that game as well, but after a time I just . . . stopped playing. Still not sure why. Maybe it was the ugly (albeit realistic) environments. Maybe it was the bugs, or the fact that everyone soloed and few grouped. Grouping is the source of much of my enjoyment in MMOs, and without a degree of forced grouping, I lose interest.
I kept my eye on Earthrise, but the FFA PVP and the bugs mean I’ll likely never play it. I did the Rift beta, but that voice in my head reappeared and said, “This is great and everything, but you know who did this better?”
So I’m back to EQ2. I hate, hate, hate a lot of the changes they’ve made to further dumb down the game I loved, but it’s still the one that gives me the most enjoyment for my time and effort. I know I’m not the only one. My old guild has been flooded with people returning who voice similar sentiments: “I tried AoC. I tried Vanguard. I’m back to EQ2.” Maybe it’s the fact that the community tends to be older and more mature. Maybe it’s the rich questing options. Or maybe it’s my own biased perspective. All I know is that I keep going back. Maybe at this point I’ll stay.
TL;DR: Best game ever, for me, would be the love child of EQ2 and EVE. Combine EQ’s rich content, character customization, world environment and lore with EVE’s difficulty level and complex skill/crafting/economy aspects. If that game could also garner a non-asshat community, I'd be in heaven. It’ll likely never happen, but I can dream.
I dont want to play a single player game on line. I would rather play a multiplayer one.
Yes! I know a lot of people rail against "forced grouping," but when I'm grinding mobs by myself, it is just not as fun as when I'm grouping with others. The beauty of the MMO is the ability to develop friendships (and enemies!). Blasting someone's opinions in general chat does not equal player interaction. As far as I'm concerned, if I can get to max level with minimal grouping in an MMO, something is wrong.
If I wanted to solo, I'd jump on my console games.
I dont want to play a single player game on line. I would rather play a multiplayer one.
Yes! I know a lot of people rail against "forced grouping," but when I'm grinding mobs by myself, it is just not as fun as when I'm grouping with others. The beauty of the MMO is the ability to develop friendships (and enemies!). Blasting someone's opinions in general chat does not equal player interaction. As far as I'm concerned, if I can get to max level with minimal grouping in an MMO, something is wrong.
If I wanted to solo, I'd jump on my console games.
Although I havent played it for a while, I actually got much more entertaining multiplayer fun from Dawn of War 2. I know its not an mmo or even an rpg (although the single player campaign does have some good rpg elements to it) but it is designed as a great multiplayer strategy game. It oozes quality and I love all the little details that have gone into the game.
What grabs me about that game is the way that another players decisions present me with different situations to deal with. I can play a multitude of battles on a single map and they will all play out differently. Make a bad decision and I might lose that power generator. Make a good decision and I can outflank his scouts and cut them off. Etc etc
Now I certainly dont expect an mmo to be full of constant non stop decision making at the same pace that Dawn of War 2 delivers it, but really it seems that the majority of mmos frown upon players being able to influence each other in any way at all. I'm not talking about pvp either. I'm talking about being able to influence something in the game world and make a difference, that can make an impact on another players experience of the game world. Examples might include things like:
Lots of players get together and drive off a massive tribe (thousands) of goblins so that it migrates into an enemy players area.
Lots of players fight their way through a dungeon that has been discovered under an old castle inhabited by undead. They find a shrine which can be unlocked by a large number of mages. This releases a demon elsewhere in the world.
Lots of crafters contribute to building, repairing and upgrading a friendly npc castle, which generates npc soldiers, siege engines etc which can be directed. Meanwhile enemy players can do the same in their lands. League of Legends on a larger scale?
I'm kind of imagining the way Dark Age of Camelot had three seperate realms. Why dont any mmos ever build upon the notion of being able to change things in each others realms? I would love it if I could play an mmo where players had to group up to trigger events in the world......and my realm could deteriorate or prosper depending on how well my countrymen are doing in comparison to the enemy realms.
I know it would be a challenge to make such a game. However if all of the time, money and effort that companies spend on making a million story quests and all the scripted content that goes with it, was instead spent on making an interactive game world then....hmmm.....I dunno maybe we would actually see a genuine multiplayer online roleplaying game for once, instead of an online single player game with co-op features.
MMOs are about perspective. Usually, when a person starts an MMO for the first time and it is ALSO their first MMO they tend to like it the most. This is simply because this is all they've ever known. Their perspective is only focused on what they have now. If you only have 1 thing then that's the best you'll ever have.
A person gets into the game...levels up, gets weapons, is involved in the community...etc. A new MMO comes on line. Depending on how long a person has played and biased they've become determines how that new MMO will be received. Comparisons between MMOs can ONLY happen when people have played two or more MMOs. So, a person's first MMO will usually cause them to be biased to that one and no other MMO will ever "live up to" their favorite. Hell, it doesn't even matter if they are fundamentaly different games, only that they have MMO as a description.
This is a great insight, and one I've considered many times when approaching new MMORPGs. Technically Shadowbane was my first MMO, but since I remember nothing about it, it doesn’t count. I played both EQ2 and WoW simultaneously during their launch, and eventually settled on EQ2 being my favorite of the two. Warcraft and I just didn’t click. The cartoony graphics, the crafting system, the community, the quests—none of it felt right for me. It bored me. I tried to give it a chance over the years because it was the “popular” option (and most of my friends were avid players), but after level 25 and several alts it never grabbed me the way EQ2 does.
My fondest early memory of EQ2 revolves around retrieving my spirit shard from the bottom of Fallen Gate. This was back in the day when spirit shards were an issue, along with the massive experience debt (now removed). It was a source of intense frustration and triumph, and probably why Fallen Gate continues to be one of my favorite zones.
After several months of playing, unfortunately, I had to put EQ2 down (college took up a lot of my time and money). I’d be back.
During that lull, I tried other MMOs. I did a trial of City of Heroes with my friends (meh). I experimented with Guild Wars (nice graphics, but a dull, dancing community and the solo aspect didn’t give me the MMO feel I wanted). I tried WoW again with another friend and quickly gave up. All the while, I kept thinking, “God, EQ2 did this better.”
So I went back to a revamped EQ2. Loved it, but I had accidently rolled on a PvP/Station Exchange server (I wasn’t experienced with PVP at the time), so after several months of trying to make it work, I sold my characters and left with a sour taste in my mouth. Later, when Kunark came out, I rolled on a PVE server and began to enjoy myself again.
After I maxed out my toons, I tried other MMOs. My first sandbox was EVE, and I adored it. It felt like the polar opposite of EQ2. I loved the complexity of the skills and crafting system, the economy, the steep learning curve. I liked that I could avoid PVP if I wanted and opt in when I was ready.
Apparently many people who play EVE also keep another game on the side. And I can see why. After several months of staring at the back of my ship, drifting through the void of space, I was beginning to miss the character aspect. After experimenting with other MMOs, I discovered Fallen Earth. Post apocalyptic setting. Sandbox. Decent character customization. Mature rating. I was devoted to that game as well, but after a time I just . . . stopped playing. Still not sure why. Maybe it was the ugly (albeit realistic) environments. Maybe it was the bugs, or the fact that everyone soloed and few grouped. Grouping is the source of much of my enjoyment in MMOs, and without a degree of forced grouping, I lose interest.
I kept my eye on Earthrise, but the FFA PVP and the bugs mean I’ll likely never play it. I did the Rift beta, but that voice in my head reappeared and said, “This is great and everything, but you know who did this better?”
So I’m back to EQ2. I hate, hate, hate a lot of the changes they’ve made to further dumb down the game I loved, but it’s still the one that gives me the most enjoyment for my time and effort. I know I’m not the only one. My old guild has been flooded with people returning who voice similar sentiments: “I tried AoC. I tried Vanguard. I’m back to EQ2.” Maybe it’s the fact that the community tends to be older and more mature. Maybe it’s the rich questing options. Or maybe it’s my own biased perspective. All I know is that I keep going back. Maybe at this point I’ll stay.
TL;DR: Best game ever, for me, would be the love child of EQ2 and EVE. Combine EQ’s rich content, character customization, world environment and lore with EVE’s difficulty level and complex skill/crafting/economy aspects. If that game could also garner a non-asshat community, I'd be in heaven. It’ll likely never happen, but I can dream.
A fine write up indeed and an enjoyable read. I unfortunately couldnt stick with EQ2......but that was because EQ1 was my first mmo and as Kawi1 said, I simply could not help but compare the two games. I felt that EQ2 took everything I loved about EQ1 and just chucked it all out the window.
I really hated the way that all the races were just squashed into two cities. In the original game each race had its own starting city and surrounding lands in a totally separate area of the gameworld. This made starting a new character quite a diverse experience. It also meant that when I created my dwarf paladin, he started in a dwarven city......which had lots of dwarves in it......who met up in dwarven pubs......who drank dwarven beer.......and frowned upon visitors who were not dwarves. I felt like my character was a dwarf. Each race had its own racial identity and each starting area felt right. The design of the game seemed to encourage roleplaying behaviour.
In contrast in EQ2 my dwarf was simply dumped in the dwarven district in Qeynos.....which had districts for every "good" race too. Walk a few minutes over there and I'm in elf land. Walk a few minutes that way and I'm in gnome land. Pop through that door and I'm in halfling land. Urrrgghh. I know EQ2 added more starting areas later on but it still didnt carry the same kind of magic for me. It just felt like a mess to me......and a lazy mess at that, as though the designers simply couldnt be bothered with making each races starting area so they just said "Pfft! Sod it. Just make "good city" and "bad city" and dump all the races in each one. Sorted". I guess they were just restrained by time limits and money, which was a shame.
I was also used to good and evil races not mixing with each other in the original EQ.....which obviously makes sense. I dunno I could be wrong there, but I certainly dont remember seeing any trolls or dark elves wandering around my dwarf city in EQ1......and I certainly never found myself meeting one that asked me if I wanted to group up with it to complete a quest. In EQ2 however the players alignment just didnt seem to mean anything, which helped to break my immersion even further. Trolls, ogres,elves and dwarves going on a picnic together? Nahhh.
I did play the game for a few months though and managed to get some enjoyment out of it for a while. It just wasnt the EverQuest world that I used to enjoy though. Maybe it was the abundance of daft quests that had me killing various wildlife to gather pages for a book (?!) or helping Mr Tiddlewibbly deliver a pie to his neighbour. It felt more like a twisted version of Harry Potter and its wizards in pointy hats and bath robes didnt help. I loved the music and the sound effects though.
EQ1 and DAoC are still my favourite mmos for their times. I couldnt go back to them now though
Comments
This is a great insight, and one I've considered many times when approaching new MMORPGs. Technically Shadowbane was my first MMO, but since I remember nothing about it, it doesn’t count. I played both EQ2 and WoW simultaneously during their launch, and eventually settled on EQ2 being my favorite of the two. Warcraft and I just didn’t click. The cartoony graphics, the crafting system, the community, the quests—none of it felt right for me. It bored me. I tried to give it a chance over the years because it was the “popular” option (and most of my friends were avid players), but after level 25 and several alts it never grabbed me the way EQ2 does.
My fondest early memory of EQ2 revolves around retrieving my spirit shard from the bottom of Fallen Gate. This was back in the day when spirit shards were an issue, along with the massive experience debt (now removed). It was a source of intense frustration and triumph, and probably why Fallen Gate continues to be one of my favorite zones.
After several months of playing, unfortunately, I had to put EQ2 down (college took up a lot of my time and money). I’d be back.
During that lull, I tried other MMOs. I did a trial of City of Heroes with my friends (meh). I experimented with Guild Wars (nice graphics, but a dull, dancing community and the solo aspect didn’t give me the MMO feel I wanted). I tried WoW again with another friend and quickly gave up. All the while, I kept thinking, “God, EQ2 did this better.”
So I went back to a revamped EQ2. Loved it, but I had accidently rolled on a PvP/Station Exchange server (I wasn’t experienced with PVP at the time), so after several months of trying to make it work, I sold my characters and left with a sour taste in my mouth. Later, when Kunark came out, I rolled on a PVE server and began to enjoy myself again.
After I maxed out my toons, I tried other MMOs. My first sandbox was EVE, and I adored it. It felt like the polar opposite of EQ2. I loved the complexity of the skills and crafting system, the economy, the steep learning curve. I liked that I could avoid PVP if I wanted and opt in when I was ready.
Apparently many people who play EVE also keep another game on the side. And I can see why. After several months of staring at the back of my ship, drifting through the void of space, I was beginning to miss the character aspect. After experimenting with other MMOs, I discovered Fallen Earth. Post apocalyptic setting. Sandbox. Decent character customization. Mature rating. I was devoted to that game as well, but after a time I just . . . stopped playing. Still not sure why. Maybe it was the ugly (albeit realistic) environments. Maybe it was the bugs, or the fact that everyone soloed and few grouped. Grouping is the source of much of my enjoyment in MMOs, and without a degree of forced grouping, I lose interest.
I kept my eye on Earthrise, but the FFA PVP and the bugs mean I’ll likely never play it. I did the Rift beta, but that voice in my head reappeared and said, “This is great and everything, but you know who did this better?”
So I’m back to EQ2. I hate, hate, hate a lot of the changes they’ve made to further dumb down the game I loved, but it’s still the one that gives me the most enjoyment for my time and effort. I know I’m not the only one. My old guild has been flooded with people returning who voice similar sentiments: “I tried AoC. I tried Vanguard. I’m back to EQ2.” Maybe it’s the fact that the community tends to be older and more mature. Maybe it’s the rich questing options. Or maybe it’s my own biased perspective. All I know is that I keep going back. Maybe at this point I’ll stay.
TL;DR: Best game ever, for me, would be the love child of EQ2 and EVE. Combine EQ’s rich content, character customization, world environment and lore with EVE’s difficulty level and complex skill/crafting/economy aspects. If that game could also garner a non-asshat community, I'd be in heaven. It’ll likely never happen, but I can dream.
Yes! I know a lot of people rail against "forced grouping," but when I'm grinding mobs by myself, it is just not as fun as when I'm grouping with others. The beauty of the MMO is the ability to develop friendships (and enemies!). Blasting someone's opinions in general chat does not equal player interaction. As far as I'm concerned, if I can get to max level with minimal grouping in an MMO, something is wrong.
If I wanted to solo, I'd jump on my console games.
Although I havent played it for a while, I actually got much more entertaining multiplayer fun from Dawn of War 2. I know its not an mmo or even an rpg (although the single player campaign does have some good rpg elements to it) but it is designed as a great multiplayer strategy game. It oozes quality and I love all the little details that have gone into the game.
What grabs me about that game is the way that another players decisions present me with different situations to deal with. I can play a multitude of battles on a single map and they will all play out differently. Make a bad decision and I might lose that power generator. Make a good decision and I can outflank his scouts and cut them off. Etc etc
Now I certainly dont expect an mmo to be full of constant non stop decision making at the same pace that Dawn of War 2 delivers it, but really it seems that the majority of mmos frown upon players being able to influence each other in any way at all. I'm not talking about pvp either. I'm talking about being able to influence something in the game world and make a difference, that can make an impact on another players experience of the game world. Examples might include things like:
Lots of players get together and drive off a massive tribe (thousands) of goblins so that it migrates into an enemy players area.
Lots of players fight their way through a dungeon that has been discovered under an old castle inhabited by undead. They find a shrine which can be unlocked by a large number of mages. This releases a demon elsewhere in the world.
Lots of crafters contribute to building, repairing and upgrading a friendly npc castle, which generates npc soldiers, siege engines etc which can be directed. Meanwhile enemy players can do the same in their lands. League of Legends on a larger scale?
I'm kind of imagining the way Dark Age of Camelot had three seperate realms. Why dont any mmos ever build upon the notion of being able to change things in each others realms? I would love it if I could play an mmo where players had to group up to trigger events in the world......and my realm could deteriorate or prosper depending on how well my countrymen are doing in comparison to the enemy realms.
I know it would be a challenge to make such a game. However if all of the time, money and effort that companies spend on making a million story quests and all the scripted content that goes with it, was instead spent on making an interactive game world then....hmmm.....I dunno maybe we would actually see a genuine multiplayer online roleplaying game for once, instead of an online single player game with co-op features.
A fine write up indeed and an enjoyable read. I unfortunately couldnt stick with EQ2......but that was because EQ1 was my first mmo and as Kawi1 said, I simply could not help but compare the two games. I felt that EQ2 took everything I loved about EQ1 and just chucked it all out the window.
I really hated the way that all the races were just squashed into two cities. In the original game each race had its own starting city and surrounding lands in a totally separate area of the gameworld. This made starting a new character quite a diverse experience. It also meant that when I created my dwarf paladin, he started in a dwarven city......which had lots of dwarves in it......who met up in dwarven pubs......who drank dwarven beer.......and frowned upon visitors who were not dwarves. I felt like my character was a dwarf. Each race had its own racial identity and each starting area felt right. The design of the game seemed to encourage roleplaying behaviour.
In contrast in EQ2 my dwarf was simply dumped in the dwarven district in Qeynos.....which had districts for every "good" race too. Walk a few minutes over there and I'm in elf land. Walk a few minutes that way and I'm in gnome land. Pop through that door and I'm in halfling land. Urrrgghh. I know EQ2 added more starting areas later on but it still didnt carry the same kind of magic for me. It just felt like a mess to me......and a lazy mess at that, as though the designers simply couldnt be bothered with making each races starting area so they just said "Pfft! Sod it. Just make "good city" and "bad city" and dump all the races in each one. Sorted". I guess they were just restrained by time limits and money, which was a shame.
I was also used to good and evil races not mixing with each other in the original EQ.....which obviously makes sense. I dunno I could be wrong there, but I certainly dont remember seeing any trolls or dark elves wandering around my dwarf city in EQ1......and I certainly never found myself meeting one that asked me if I wanted to group up with it to complete a quest. In EQ2 however the players alignment just didnt seem to mean anything, which helped to break my immersion even further. Trolls, ogres,elves and dwarves going on a picnic together? Nahhh.
I did play the game for a few months though and managed to get some enjoyment out of it for a while. It just wasnt the EverQuest world that I used to enjoy though. Maybe it was the abundance of daft quests that had me killing various wildlife to gather pages for a book (?!) or helping Mr Tiddlewibbly deliver a pie to his neighbour. It felt more like a twisted version of Harry Potter and its wizards in pointy hats and bath robes didnt help. I loved the music and the sound effects though.
EQ1 and DAoC are still my favourite mmos for their times. I couldnt go back to them now though