I've decided I'm not going to buy another MMO for as long as they stick to these stupid design rules that seem to be hurting every game. It pisses me off that game designers seem to lack any originality (or that company executives are retards that don't understand market share, niche sector filling etc etc) and still expect me to pay monthly for it.
I will not pay for another MMO as long as...
- The design seems to be a typical static themepark. I don't see why I should have to pay for cheap server hosting somewhere when there's no dynamic content generation going on. I would, however, pay for a themepark/sandbox mix or something close to sandbox.
- I am expected to grind my way up to max level, whether it is through mobs or quests. Single player games manage to be fun the entire way through, why aren't MMOs? (See: Every single god damn game.)
- Developers still try to push cash shop services into P2P games. Do one or the other, for god's sake. (Hi WoW and other MMOs.)
- The gameplay is still "go down this quest corridor and follow it to it's very end, do not deviate from the path". (Sad that WoW has became this after Vanilla WoW wasn't so bad for it. Good game, Blizzard.)
- The paying model is confusing as shit and isn't immediately obvious. (Hi FFXV and Wurm Online.)
- An aspect of gameplay is useless at end game. (See: Crafting in pretty much every MMO.)
That's all of mine for now.
What about you guys? Have you promised yourselves not to buy another MMO due to the same shit, different game syndrome we seem to be having? What makes you not want to buy another MMO?
the problem here is defining "sandbox".
What do you want in a "sandbox" and are there even 3 other people that want the same thing?
Darkfall is a sandbox. I'm guessing you don't want a use it to improve skill system with FFA PvP?
Second Life is a sandbox. I'm guessing you don't want just a world where people can do anything they want, and there is no game?
No one can design a game for you simply going by what you DON"T want.
I've decided I'm not going to buy another MMO for as long as they stick to these stupid design rules that seem to be hurting every game. It pisses me off that game designers seem to lack any originality (or that company executives are retards that don't understand market share, niche sector filling etc etc) and still expect me to pay monthly for it.
I will not pay for another MMO as long as...
- The design seems to be a typical static themepark. I don't see why I should have to pay for cheap server hosting somewhere when there's no dynamic content generation going on. I would, however, pay for a themepark/sandbox mix or something close to sandbox.
- I am expected to grind my way up to max level, whether it is through mobs or quests. Single player games manage to be fun the entire way through, why aren't MMOs? (See: Every single god damn game.)
- Developers still try to push cash shop services into P2P games. Do one or the other, for god's sake. (Hi WoW and other MMOs.)
- The gameplay is still "go down this quest corridor and follow it to it's very end, do not deviate from the path". (Sad that WoW has became this after Vanilla WoW wasn't so bad for it. Good game, Blizzard.)
- The paying model is confusing as shit and isn't immediately obvious. (Hi FFXV and Wurm Online.)
- An aspect of gameplay is useless at end game. (See: Crafting in pretty much every MMO.)
That's all of mine for now.
What about you guys? Have you promised yourselves not to buy another MMO due to the same shit, different game syndrome we seem to be having? What makes you not want to buy another MMO?
Funny you want a sandbox without a grind last i checked all sandbox games are skill grinds instead of quest or gear grinds. In any MMO you are going to have to grind something it is a matter of how well they mask the grind to make it seem like it doesn't suck.
Exactly. In EVE you grind for money to build ships.
IN Shadow Bane you had to grind for money to build cities.
The grind moves around, but is always there. Grind for levels, grind for skills, or grind for money.
I've decided I'm not going to buy another MMO for as long as they stick to these stupid design rules that seem to be hurting every game. It pisses me off that game designers seem to lack any originality (or that company executives are retards that don't understand market share, niche sector filling etc etc) and still expect me to pay monthly for it.
I will not pay for another MMO as long as...
- The design seems to be a typical static themepark. I don't see why I should have to pay for cheap server hosting somewhere when there's no dynamic content generation going on. I would, however, pay for a themepark/sandbox mix or something close to sandbox.
- I am expected to grind my way up to max level, whether it is through mobs or quests. Single player games manage to be fun the entire way through, why aren't MMOs? (See: Every single god damn game.)
- Developers still try to push cash shop services into P2P games. Do one or the other, for god's sake. (Hi WoW and other MMOs.)
- The gameplay is still "go down this quest corridor and follow it to it's very end, do not deviate from the path". (Sad that WoW has became this after Vanilla WoW wasn't so bad for it. Good game, Blizzard.)
- The paying model is confusing as shit and isn't immediately obvious. (Hi FFXV and Wurm Online.)
- An aspect of gameplay is useless at end game. (See: Crafting in pretty much every MMO.)
That's all of mine for now.
What about you guys? Have you promised yourselves not to buy another MMO due to the same shit, different game syndrome we seem to be having? What makes you not want to buy another MMO?
Funny you want a sandbox without a grind last i checked all sandbox games are skill grinds instead of quest or gear grinds. In any MMO you are going to have to grind something it is a matter of how well they mask the grind to make it seem like it doesn't suck.
Exactly. In EVE you grind for money to build ships.
IN Shadow Bane you had to grind for money to build cities.
The grind moves around, but is always there. Grind for levels, grind for skills, or grind for money.
No grind = not an MMORPG.
correct. they have to extract all the RPG bits in order to get rid of the grind.
After my experience with AoC I promised myself I wouldn't pre-order, get a special edition or pay for an MMO without doing a free trial first. I only broke my rule once and it burned me again (FFXIV. The visuals sucked me in). Beyond that it's served me well as a I've haven't subbed to anything since except my continued sub to EvE.
The difference between me and the OP is I don't have preconditions to game content. If there is a free trial I'll try it and if I enjoy it, I'll get it.
Funny you want a sandbox without a grind last i checked all sandbox games are skill grinds instead of quest or gear grinds. In any MMO you are going to have to grind something it is a matter of how well they mask the grind to make it seem like it doesn't suck.
You have no idea what a sandbox game is, do you?
Originally posted by outd00rminer
Yeah the market is really demanding more WoW-like games. Just look at the success of AoC, WAR, LoTRO, hey wait a minute...
The best part is that, as WoW has became progressively shittier (and, yes, it has), the other games have followed the trend of "Holy crap, we can make our games into even MORE of an on-the-rails questing game!"
This post does not see market reality.
AoC/War/LoTRO/Aion/DDO are all successful 'wow-like' games.
Even if we take out the king WoW, Aion alone has 3.5M subs.
In today's market; more people PAY for themepark games than sandbox games. (FACT)
I'm not sure if you're joking. All those games have failed hard and are doing well below expectations with the exception of Aion. Aion's success has more to do with the who (developer = Lineage series, market = Asia!) than any copying of WoW's gameplay system/mechanics.
I would hope in today's market people PAY more for themepark than they do sandbox, considering they outnumber sandbox titles by about a 10:1 margin.
You really don't have to worry about this anymore, as F2P is the wave of the future.
The only reason every single MMORPG active hasn't switched to F2P is because of how delicate business and sales can be sometimes.
If nothing would change (players would not get upset) then all companies would switch over to F2P because of the increase in profits.
You may have thousand of players playing for free, but those hundred who pay give you a good base, and those 10 who pay hundreds every week make those thousand "possible" $15/month freebies look like a joke.
F2P is the wave of the future, so this problem won't last very long.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
You really don't have to worry about this anymore, as F2P is the wave of the future.
The only reason every single MMORPG active hasn't switched to F2P is because of how delicate business and sales can be sometimes.
If nothing would change (players would not get upset) then all companies would switch over to F2P because of the increase in profits.
You may have thousand of players playing for free, but those hundred who pay give you a good base, and those 10 who pay hundreds every week make those thousand "possible" $15/month freebies look like a joke.
F2P is the wave of the future, so this problem won't last very long.
I'd be surpried to see F2P dominate the market anytime soon. The problem with F2P in the Western market is that we are driven by addages such as "you get what you pay for", hence much hesitation for the F2P markets. DDO and LotRO might have seen increases in their profits since going F2P, but they are an exception and not a rule. The way Turbine handles the Cash Shop portions of their game is very intelligent, but even then you will still see people complain.
If anything, Buy 2 Play will be the next step in mmo progression. You pay $40-60 for a box and then can play for free the rest of the time, with possible DLC options available as well as pay for expansion packs on a 12-18 month schedule. GW had much success with their B2P + DLC model, but GW wasn't a true mmorpg. GW2, on the other hand, is going to be the first true test to see whether B2P will work or not.
You really don't have to worry about this anymore, as F2P is the wave of the future.
The only reason every single MMORPG active hasn't switched to F2P is because of how delicate business and sales can be sometimes.
If nothing would change (players would not get upset) then all companies would switch over to F2P because of the increase in profits.
You may have thousand of players playing for free, but those hundred who pay give you a good base, and those 10 who pay hundreds every week make those thousand "possible" $15/month freebies look like a joke.
F2P is the wave of the future, so this problem won't last very long.
I'd be surpried to see F2P dominate the market anytime soon. The problem with F2P in the Western market is that we are driven by addages such as "you get what you pay for", hence much hesitation for the F2P markets. DDO and LotRO might have seen increases in their profits since going F2P, but they are an exception and not a rule. The way Turbine handles the Cash Shop portions of their game is very intelligent, but even then you will still see people complain.
People complaining is irrelevant, as that has little to do with sales. Don't really know why that was brought up :P People complain the sky is blue, or the 20 seconds of microwave time was too slow.
DDO and LOTRO are not an exception, and the massive amount of F2P browser games are the rule.
I think you are not looking at MMORPG's in actuality, but actually just AAA titles (which have since gone F2P and will profit because of it). There are hundreds of browser based MMORPG's which carry thousands of playesr, who are F2P.
You also neglected to mention Runescape, which is EXTREMELY successful, with minimal investment. We will see games going F2P, although AAA titles will probably go F2P last, as most other MMORPG's already are F2P.
If anything, Buy 2 Play will be the next step in mmo progression. You pay $40-60 for a box and then can play for free the rest of the time, with possible DLC options available as well as pay for expansion packs on a 12-18 month schedule. GW had much success with their B2P + DLC model, but GW wasn't a true mmorpg. GW2, on the other hand, is going to be the first true test to see whether B2P will work or not.
Buy2Play and F2P + cash shop can inevitably be the same thing. I can see different games going Buy2Play + Cash Shop, but nothing in the future not having a cash shop.
At least we agree that P2P will slowly fade away, as eitehr F2P or B2P will progress. That is a good model IMO, but I don't know the actual numbers on that, as well as every P2P game is ALSO B2P...and that B2P + monthly sub is A LOT of money, so I would have a hard time believing B2P > B2P + Monthly Sub.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Funny you want a sandbox without a grind last i checked all sandbox games are skill grinds instead of quest or gear grinds. In any MMO you are going to have to grind something it is a matter of how well they mask the grind to make it seem like it doesn't suck.
You have no idea what a sandbox game is, do you?
Originally posted by outd00rminer
Yeah the market is really demanding more WoW-like games. Just look at the success of AoC, WAR, LoTRO, hey wait a minute...
The best part is that, as WoW has became progressively shittier (and, yes, it has), the other games have followed the trend of "Holy crap, we can make our games into even MORE of an on-the-rails questing game!"
This post does not see market reality.
AoC/War/LoTRO/Aion/DDO are all successful 'wow-like' games.
Even if we take out the king WoW, Aion alone has 3.5M subs.
In today's market; more people PAY for themepark games than sandbox games. (FACT)
I'm not sure if you're joking. All those games have failed hard and are doing well below expectations with the exception of Aion. Aion's success has more to do with the who (developer = Lineage series, market = Asia!) than any copying of WoW's gameplay system/mechanics.
I would hope in today's market people PAY more for themepark than they do sandbox, considering they outnumber sandbox titles by about a 10:1 margin.
Yeah, games that returned the amount invested AND is providing further funding for future projects for the dev company is a 'failure'. /Sarcasm
By that logic, everyone in IT except IBM is a failure, including Microsoft.
IBM made 99 Billion while MS 'only' made 66 Billion in 2010.
Now that we have agreed to the facts that theme park games make more money than sandbox, if you are in charge of a company that wants to make money so you don't have to fire your staff, which route do you go?
The less revenue potential Sandbox or more revenue potential Themepark?
And why is the it that themepark games make more money? Could it be that demand is higher? gasp! Logic!
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Now that we have agreed to the facts that theme park games make more money than sandbox, if you are in charge of a company that wants to make money so you don't have to fire your staff, which route do you go?
The less revenue potential Sandbox or more revenue potential Themepark?
And why is the it that themepark games make more money? Could it be that demand is higher? gasp! Logic!
You have no idea how economics works, do you?
Sandbox games do, in fact, have a far greater revenue potential than themepark games (try finding out what "revenue potential" means, you mean "consumer potential" I think but because you're terrible at economics and English it's impossible for me to tell) simply due to the ability to jump onto various parts of gameplay instead of a small portion of the gameplay that's experienced in a traditional themepark MMO. This means greater revenue per customer.
Make money or make profit? Completely different things.
Here's a tip, kid: Go study some basic economic / business theory. Come back here, read your post and realise you were talking bullshit. Apologise to everyone in this thread and then go about your daily business slightly better off that you were before.
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Darkfall is a sandbox. I'm guessing you don't want a use it to improve skill system with FFA PvP?
The trouble with Darkfall is a combination of the "FPS" mechanics and the fact they've almost completely failed at a lot of sandbox mechanics (like the lack of an overall skill cap etc). The complete focus on semi-meaningless PvP annoys me, too.
Now that we have agreed to the facts that theme park games make more money than sandbox, if you are in charge of a company that wants to make money so you don't have to fire your staff, which route do you go?
The less revenue potential Sandbox or more revenue potential Themepark?
And why is the it that themepark games make more money? Could it be that demand is higher? gasp! Logic!
You have no idea how economics works, do you?
Sandbox games do, in fact, have a far greater revenue potential than themepark games (try finding out what "revenue potential" means, you mean "consumer potential" I think but because you're terrible at economics and English it's impossible for me to tell) simply due to the ability to jump onto various parts of gameplay instead of a small portion of the gameplay that's experienced in a traditional themepark MMO. This means greater revenue per customer.
Make money or make profit? Completely different things.
Here's a tip, kid: Go study some basic economic / business theory. Come back here, read your post and realise you were talking bullshit. Apologise to everyone in this thread and then go about your daily business slightly better off that you were before.
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Darkfall is a sandbox. I'm guessing you don't want a use it to improve skill system with FFA PvP?
The trouble with Darkfall is a combination of the "FPS" mechanics and the fact they've almost completely failed at a lot of sandbox mechanics (like the lack of an overall skill cap etc). The complete focus on semi-meaningless PvP annoys me, too.
So apparenlty themepark games makes less money and profit than sandbox games.
ROFL. Okay.
Yeah.. those profits for Acti-Blizzard is sure less than any sandbox games. Right? /Sarcasm
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
You really don't have to worry about this anymore, as F2P is the wave of the future.
The only reason every single MMORPG active hasn't switched to F2P is because of how delicate business and sales can be sometimes.
If nothing would change (players would not get upset) then all companies would switch over to F2P because of the increase in profits.
You may have thousand of players playing for free, but those hundred who pay give you a good base, and those 10 who pay hundreds every week make those thousand "possible" $15/month freebies look like a joke.
F2P is the wave of the future, so this problem won't last very long.
This sounds like wishful thinking more than anything else.
For this to be true, all current WoW players would have to be willing to switch from P2P to a F2P model.
Adn all WoW players that didn't want to play a F2P game, would have to decide that they never again feel like paying for a P2P game.
Until you get rid of millions of players willing to pay monthly, someone is gonna go after that market.
Unless again, you can prove that 70% or more of WoW players would switch to a F2P cash shop game.
Some of them? Sure. MOST of them, after playing WoW as their main MMO switching to a cash shop game? Maybe, but I kind of doubt it.
What do you get from a cash shop player that buys items per month? I think the average is about 24 bucks or something like that.
What do you get from a P2P gamer? About 15 bucks.
Ok, you get MORE from the cash shop player that purchases items! So make ALL games cash shop, right?
But, what does a cash shop get from a gamer that doesn't like cash shops? Nothing.
so that's 15 bucks a month no one will get if there are no P2P games.
I've decided I'm not going to buy another MMO for as long as they stick to these stupid design rules that seem to be hurting every game. It pisses me off that game designers seem to lack any originality (or that company executives are retards that don't understand market share, niche sector filling etc etc) and still expect me to pay monthly for it.
I will not pay for another MMO as long as...
- The design seems to be a typical static themepark. I don't see why I should have to pay for cheap server hosting somewhere when there's no dynamic content generation going on. I would, however, pay for a themepark/sandbox mix or something close to sandbox.
- I am expected to grind my way up to max level, whether it is through mobs or quests. Single player games manage to be fun the entire way through, why aren't MMOs? (See: Every single god damn game.)
- Developers still try to push cash shop services into P2P games. Do one or the other, for god's sake. (Hi WoW and other MMOs.)
- The gameplay is still "go down this quest corridor and follow it to it's very end, do not deviate from the path". (Sad that WoW has became this after Vanilla WoW wasn't so bad for it. Good game, Blizzard.)
- The paying model is confusing as shit and isn't immediately obvious. (Hi FFXV and Wurm Online.)
- An aspect of gameplay is useless at end game. (See: Crafting in pretty much every MMO.)
That's all of mine for now.
What about you guys? Have you promised yourselves not to buy another MMO due to the same shit, different game syndrome we seem to be having? What makes you not want to buy another MMO?
You do have many good points, particularly about single player games being fun all the time but MMOs often just being a grind. But only you can decide if a MMO is worth the fee or not.
As for sandboxes or themeparks I think too many people focuses on that instead of if the game is good or not. I play any good game myself, what mechanics it uses is less important as long as I have fun.
The RMT shops in P2P games is not smart, the devs of these games are digging their own grave and I have no clue how they think they can go up against GW2 by adding stuff like that into the game. If anything actually will kill of P2P it is those shops.
I will buy another MMO as long as it doesn't feels like something I already played (or if I get really bored). Next up is GW2 and WoDO but I will try to test TOR, TERA and TSW for free if I can and if any of them actually are fun I will buy it. Since I love GW1 I think I will at least like GW2 but I will buy both it and WoDO regardless, those 2 games are trying to make a mechanics revolution and I am willing to give them some money for that regardless.
So apparenlty themepark games makes less money and profit than sandbox games.
ROFL. Okay.
Yeah.. those profits for Acti-Blizzard is sure less than any sandbox games. Right? /Sarcasm
Absolutely useless trying to reason with you, so I'm just going to hope this holds a mirror upto your face and you get the point.
Originally posted by Loke666
You do have many good points, particularly about single player games being fun all the time but MMOs often just being a grind. But only you can decide if a MMO is worth the fee or not.
As for sandboxes or themeparks I think too many people focuses on that instead of if the game is good or not. I play any good game myself, what mechanics it uses is less important as long as I have fun.
The RMT shops in P2P games is not smart, the devs of these games are digging their own grave and I have no clue how they think they can go up against GW2 by adding stuff like that into the game. If anything actually will kill of P2P it is those shops.
I will buy another MMO as long as it doesn't feels like something I already played (or if I get really bored). Next up is GW2 and WoDO but I will try to test TOR, TERA and TSW for free if I can and if any of them actually are fun I will buy it. Since I love GW1 I think I will at least like GW2 but I will buy both it and WoDO regardless, those 2 games are trying to make a mechanics revolution and I am willing to give them some money for that regardless.
I think it's mainly the combat system. Even grinding can be fun if the combat is fun. MMOs have very little tactical depth in terms of basic PvE, however, and usually even less fun (hi boring levelling rotation). With a bit more fluidity around combat (not played DC Universe yet, but that sounds like what I'm talking about) we might be on the right track.
Honestly? I think MMOs are designed to be a blend of themepark and sandbox. It's the thing that "clicks", the thing that many players loved in vanilla WoW (hate WoW or not, you can't deny it's got more and more themepark as the expansions have been released) and a persistant universe is what makes MMOs unique. I do game design as a bit of enjoyment in my spare time and I can't see most of the games working well without at least some "themepark" elements and some "sandbox" elements. Like one is a major spiritual successor to DAoC where the fighting takes place on three planes of existence instead of just one. It's fairly sandbox compared to most modern titles, but it's still got a strong binding of themepark elements to keep the narrative intact etc.
Sadly, they seem to get away with it. Especially when WoW does shit like selling a fucking reskinned horse for £15. You give a game company lots of money and they'll think they can drag more from you. Sadly, it seems most people just give in.
Comments
the problem here is defining "sandbox".
What do you want in a "sandbox" and are there even 3 other people that want the same thing?
Darkfall is a sandbox. I'm guessing you don't want a use it to improve skill system with FFA PvP?
Second Life is a sandbox. I'm guessing you don't want just a world where people can do anything they want, and there is no game?
No one can design a game for you simply going by what you DON"T want.
Exactly. In EVE you grind for money to build ships.
IN Shadow Bane you had to grind for money to build cities.
The grind moves around, but is always there. Grind for levels, grind for skills, or grind for money.
No grind = not an MMORPG.
correct. they have to extract all the RPG bits in order to get rid of the grind.
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Corpus Callosum
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The difference between me and the OP is I don't have preconditions to game content. If there is a free trial I'll try it and if I enjoy it, I'll get it.
I'm not sure if you're joking. All those games have failed hard and are doing well below expectations with the exception of Aion. Aion's success has more to do with the who (developer = Lineage series, market = Asia!) than any copying of WoW's gameplay system/mechanics.
I would hope in today's market people PAY more for themepark than they do sandbox, considering they outnumber sandbox titles by about a 10:1 margin.
You really don't have to worry about this anymore, as F2P is the wave of the future.
The only reason every single MMORPG active hasn't switched to F2P is because of how delicate business and sales can be sometimes.
If nothing would change (players would not get upset) then all companies would switch over to F2P because of the increase in profits.
You may have thousand of players playing for free, but those hundred who pay give you a good base, and those 10 who pay hundreds every week make those thousand "possible" $15/month freebies look like a joke.
F2P is the wave of the future, so this problem won't last very long.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
I'd be surpried to see F2P dominate the market anytime soon. The problem with F2P in the Western market is that we are driven by addages such as "you get what you pay for", hence much hesitation for the F2P markets. DDO and LotRO might have seen increases in their profits since going F2P, but they are an exception and not a rule. The way Turbine handles the Cash Shop portions of their game is very intelligent, but even then you will still see people complain.
If anything, Buy 2 Play will be the next step in mmo progression. You pay $40-60 for a box and then can play for free the rest of the time, with possible DLC options available as well as pay for expansion packs on a 12-18 month schedule. GW had much success with their B2P + DLC model, but GW wasn't a true mmorpg. GW2, on the other hand, is going to be the first true test to see whether B2P will work or not.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Yeah, games that returned the amount invested AND is providing further funding for future projects for the dev company is a 'failure'. /Sarcasm
By that logic, everyone in IT except IBM is a failure, including Microsoft.
IBM made 99 Billion while MS 'only' made 66 Billion in 2010.
Now that we have agreed to the facts that theme park games make more money than sandbox, if you are in charge of a company that wants to make money so you don't have to fire your staff, which route do you go?
The less revenue potential Sandbox or more revenue potential Themepark?
And why is the it that themepark games make more money? Could it be that demand is higher? gasp! Logic!
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
You have no idea how economics works, do you?
Sandbox games do, in fact, have a far greater revenue potential than themepark games (try finding out what "revenue potential" means, you mean "consumer potential" I think but because you're terrible at economics and English it's impossible for me to tell) simply due to the ability to jump onto various parts of gameplay instead of a small portion of the gameplay that's experienced in a traditional themepark MMO. This means greater revenue per customer.
Make money or make profit? Completely different things.
Here's a tip, kid: Go study some basic economic / business theory. Come back here, read your post and realise you were talking bullshit. Apologise to everyone in this thread and then go about your daily business slightly better off that you were before.
The trouble with Darkfall is a combination of the "FPS" mechanics and the fact they've almost completely failed at a lot of sandbox mechanics (like the lack of an overall skill cap etc). The complete focus on semi-meaningless PvP annoys me, too.
So apparenlty themepark games makes less money and profit than sandbox games.
ROFL. Okay.
Yeah.. those profits for Acti-Blizzard is sure less than any sandbox games. Right? /Sarcasm
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
This sounds like wishful thinking more than anything else.
For this to be true, all current WoW players would have to be willing to switch from P2P to a F2P model.
Adn all WoW players that didn't want to play a F2P game, would have to decide that they never again feel like paying for a P2P game.
Until you get rid of millions of players willing to pay monthly, someone is gonna go after that market.
Unless again, you can prove that 70% or more of WoW players would switch to a F2P cash shop game.
Some of them? Sure. MOST of them, after playing WoW as their main MMO switching to a cash shop game? Maybe, but I kind of doubt it.
What do you get from a cash shop player that buys items per month? I think the average is about 24 bucks or something like that.
What do you get from a P2P gamer? About 15 bucks.
Ok, you get MORE from the cash shop player that purchases items! So make ALL games cash shop, right?
But, what does a cash shop get from a gamer that doesn't like cash shops? Nothing.
so that's 15 bucks a month no one will get if there are no P2P games.
SOMEBODY is gonna go after that 15 bucks.
You do have many good points, particularly about single player games being fun all the time but MMOs often just being a grind. But only you can decide if a MMO is worth the fee or not.
As for sandboxes or themeparks I think too many people focuses on that instead of if the game is good or not. I play any good game myself, what mechanics it uses is less important as long as I have fun.
The RMT shops in P2P games is not smart, the devs of these games are digging their own grave and I have no clue how they think they can go up against GW2 by adding stuff like that into the game. If anything actually will kill of P2P it is those shops.
I will buy another MMO as long as it doesn't feels like something I already played (or if I get really bored). Next up is GW2 and WoDO but I will try to test TOR, TERA and TSW for free if I can and if any of them actually are fun I will buy it. Since I love GW1 I think I will at least like GW2 but I will buy both it and WoDO regardless, those 2 games are trying to make a mechanics revolution and I am willing to give them some money for that regardless.
Absolutely useless trying to reason with you, so I'm just going to hope this holds a mirror upto your face and you get the point.
I think it's mainly the combat system. Even grinding can be fun if the combat is fun. MMOs have very little tactical depth in terms of basic PvE, however, and usually even less fun (hi boring levelling rotation). With a bit more fluidity around combat (not played DC Universe yet, but that sounds like what I'm talking about) we might be on the right track.
Honestly? I think MMOs are designed to be a blend of themepark and sandbox. It's the thing that "clicks", the thing that many players loved in vanilla WoW (hate WoW or not, you can't deny it's got more and more themepark as the expansions have been released) and a persistant universe is what makes MMOs unique. I do game design as a bit of enjoyment in my spare time and I can't see most of the games working well without at least some "themepark" elements and some "sandbox" elements. Like one is a major spiritual successor to DAoC where the fighting takes place on three planes of existence instead of just one.
It's fairly sandbox compared to most modern titles, but it's still got a strong binding of themepark elements to keep the narrative intact etc.
Sadly, they seem to get away with it. Especially when WoW does shit like selling a fucking reskinned horse for £15. You give a game company lots of money and they'll think they can drag more from you. Sadly, it seems most people just give in.
I hope they do. ;p