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PVP as this idea been tried in a game?

Heres what I am thinking.  I want PVP in my games.  I want unrestricted PVP all the time.  But I want my be "pwned" to matter.  Here is why, when some "uber" fellow walks by me and casually chops me up with sword of noob slaying +10 I want him to feel the repercusions.  Oh and by the way, why would you kill someone substanially weaker then you, I guess you could just be a crazy murder which would be fine in my game, I like crazy murders, the thing is they usually don't last long.

Ideas

1st offense:  You kill someone for no reason, and you get flagged a murder, next time a guard, (And like Big Brother they would be everywhere) spots you he would come super fast up to you and throw on the cuffs, or if it was a fantasy game it would be that big wooden thing around the neck.  Then you are taken to the closest big city and displayed in the middle of the street for a day or two, even if you go off line your character will still be in game on display.  Now what would be great is there would be a vendor near where they keep all the prisoners and he would sell rotten fruit, it would be pretty expensive (Got to keep the economy strong) but free for noobs.  This stuff can be thrown at the prisoner and make them look all rotten.  After you're realeased you get your equipment back but loose the murder weapon.

2nd Offense: Similar to the 1st offense but this time instead of just being in stocks you are now strectched on the rack for a few days.  And this physical abuse damages your body and causes you to lose a few levels.  Oh and afterwards you are realased with nothing.

3rd Offense:  Can we say disembowlement, but this time when you die you don't get to scream freedom.  For your third time commiting a murder and being captured by guards would be permadeath, and I'm all for public executions. 

Now if you are attacked by someone and kill them you would still be a murder but you would get the option to just knock them uncounsious for a minute or two instead of kill them. 

If the fight was consensioual and done with proper precautions, then the winner wouldn't be flagged.

IF you are at war with the faction your opponet was in and kill them in battle field locations then that would not get you flagged. 

What do you think, would this go over and lower the crime rate. 

Comments

  • TackleburyTacklebury Member UncommonPosts: 295

    I've posted my idea in a couple other similar threads, but basically:

    A) 1st offense - Character branded outlaw and open game to anyone including guard npc's in nearby towns.  Merchants in the area of the offense won't sell to them either and it takes a bunch of questing to regain your honor.  Finally, account use is suspended for 1 week.

    B) 2nd offense - Guards from all towns openly hunt character and may even put out roving patrols, Merchants in all towns will not sell to the character, Character must regain honor through EPIC level quest and account use is suspended for 1 month.

    C) 3rd offense - All characters on the account are deleted and account is banned.

    Just my 2cp... Peace image

    Tacklebury --}>>>

    Explorer 93%
    Achiever 53%
    Socializer 33%
    Killer 20%

    Tacklebury --}>>>

  • ianubisiianubisi Member Posts: 4,201


    Originally posted by gattm99
    I want unrestricted PVP all the time.

    Unrestricted PvP would necessitate no restrictions, such as the remainder of your post.


  • TackleburyTacklebury Member UncommonPosts: 295



    Originally posted by ianubisi




    Originally posted by gattm99
    I want unrestricted PVP all the time.



    Unrestricted PvP would necessitate no restrictions, such as the remainder of your post.




    No he means that there is no point in time when you cannot kill another PC.  Simply if you do you will be punished.  That's realistic imo.  ;)  Peace image

    Tacklebury --}>>>

    Explorer 93%
    Achiever 53%
    Socializer 33%
    Killer 20%

    Tacklebury --}>>>

  • JohnarkJohnark Member Posts: 901

    Well, it sounds interesting.  It would add the adrenaline rush to being a fugitive, hiding from the law, not trying to be caught, cause you'll know that if you are caught, you will be punished severely for your behavior.

    But hey, being caught in real life sux, and being caught in a virtual life would suck just as much since you won't be able to play cause you're just waiting for your punishment to end.

    What I would like to know is what are the limits?  If you're considered a murderer and to be punished as a murderer for killing someone weaker than you, would you have the same punishment if you killed someone at the same level or higher level than you?  If so, then people would get bored, no one would PVP, and it would be a total waste to have added such a system in the first place.

    Take Star Wars Galaxies for example.  There used to be a time where no one would PVP cause dying in PVE or in PVP, your items would decay and you would get death wounds.  There came a point where barely anyone PVPed anymore and the players were whinning at SOE to do something about it.  then they made it that only in PVE does your items decay and that in PVP you lose nothing whatsoever.  Then people started to PVP again.

    I dunno, I play games to have fun, not to re-live real life situations.  Cause real life sux, that's why I play games, to escape reality.  When you play a game, there are consequences!  Like if you play an arcade game, you have 3 lives, die 3 times and you gotta start all over again.  Play a standard MMORPG, dying makes you lose XP or your items decay faster.  (Or lose nothing like in World of Warcraft, hehehehe).  Or in Grand Theft Auto, kill too many people, you'll have cops running after you like crazy, the consequences are minimal... you lose money and all your equipment, but you can always get it back.  Kill someone in real life, get caught... you're in jail... and it sucks... not that I've ever been to jail, but I don't want to ever feel what it's like.

    image

    ___________ ___ __ _ _ _
    Stealth - Ambush - Hemorrhage - Sinister Strike x2 - Cold Blood - Eviscerate - Vanish - Preparation - Cold Blood - Ambush - ... you're dead! :P

  • gattm99gattm99 Member Posts: 85

    Nahh, here listen to this. 

    My game would have two pvp systems,

    Justified pvp, your faction has declared war on another faction, as long as you fight and kill someone of the other faction and you do it outside of a civilized area, or in proclaimed duel then you are fine, just like killing an enemy soldier on the battlefield.  You would be rewarded for this type of pvp.  To encourage this sort of pvp the loser would have minimal loses and the winner would have good reward.  But the reward would be tiered based on the level of the loser.  Like in Chess, you know if you are rated 1800 and you play somone rated 1200 you will still lose ratings even if you win.   

    Unjustified pvp, You kill someone because they wandered up to you and you thought you could take them, no other reason, they just looked like an easy target.  IF you attack that person then the punishment system would kick in. 

    Here is another thing, like their could be a murder sub class, and you could see just how many you could get away with before you are caught, if you wanted to rack up the victims it would neccasitate you traveling around where you might be spoted by a guard. 

     




  • Originally posted by gattm99

    Heres what I am thinking.  I want PVP in my games.  I want unrestricted PVP all the time.  But I want my be "pwned" to matter.  Here is why, when some "uber" fellow walks by me and casually chops me up with sword of noob slaying +10 I want him to feel the repercusions.  Oh and by the way, why would you kill someone substanially weaker then you, I guess you could just be a crazy murder which would be fine in my game, I like crazy murders, the thing is they usually don't last long.
    Ideas
    1st offense:  You kill someone for no reason, and you get flagged a murder, next time a guard, (And like Big Brother they would be everywhere) spots you he would come super fast up to you and throw on the cuffs, or if it was a fantasy game it would be that big wooden thing around the neck.  Then you are taken to the closest big city and displayed in the middle of the street for a day or two, even if you go off line your character will still be in game on display.  Now what would be great is there would be a vendor near where they keep all the prisoners and he would sell rotten fruit, it would be pretty expensive (Got to keep the economy strong) but free for noobs.  This stuff can be thrown at the prisoner and make them look all rotten.  After you're realeased you get your equipment back but loose the murder weapon.
    2nd Offense: Similar to the 1st offense but this time instead of just being in stocks you are now strectched on the rack for a few days.  And this physical abuse damages your body and causes you to lose a few levels.  Oh and afterwards you are realased with nothing.
    3rd Offense:  Can we say disembowlement, but this time when you die you don't get to scream freedom.  For your third time commiting a murder and being captured by guards would be permadeath, and I'm all for public executions. 
    Now if you are attacked by someone and kill them you would still be a murder but you would get the option to just knock them uncounsious for a minute or two instead of kill them. 
    If the fight was consensioual and done with proper precautions, then the winner wouldn't be flagged.
    IF you are at war with the faction your opponet was in and kill them in battle field locations then that would not get you flagged. 
    What do you think, would this go over and lower the crime rate. 



      Gottm99,

      It is nice of you to try coming up with new ideas. But this one would not work. Because:

      1. MMORPGs rely on monthly subscriptions. All it takes is one, or a few griefers to slaughter hundreds to thousands of newbies, and those newbies quit the game. There goes the bulk of profits. The moneymen aka suits and ties will be very unhappy and will pull the plug on the game.

      2. You state you do not know why a uber level player would slaugther a newbie. Raph Koster goes into detail about this on his site:

     http://www.legendmud.org/raph/

     Click on "Games" then "essays". Check out the essay "A Philosophical Statement on Playerkilling"   Basically, uber players will repeatedly slay newbies because..... they can. 

     Many MMORPG players have more than one account. Anywhere from 2 to 8 seperate accounts. It does not matter if there are penalties for chainkilling newbies. They will do it. And get away with it. Especially in a game with FFA PvP. Players use seperate accounts just to scame (aka make life miserable for other players). What's to stop them from using their other "badguy" accounts to chainkill newbies? And if that character gets penalized, they can use that same account to make more characters on other servers and do more newbie chainkilling.

      3. In UO, Raph stated the number 1 PKer had close to 100k kills. He was a pure killing machine. The 2-5 players were far behind him, but also had roughly 50k kills. The rest of the top 10 were further behind in kills, but still had thousands of kills. It broke down to roughly 1 PKer killing 20 players. 1 player was theoretically driving away 20 players. Even if only half of them quit playing, that is still insane losses to revenue. The moneymen saw it was far better to lose the PKer than the majority of players who do no like FFA PvP.

      4. The end result is the same. FFA PvP does not work. This has been proven over and over. It is what led to the downfall of UO. And was a lesson re-learned by AC2.

     A FFA PvP game can be made. It will never be a hit, a runaway success, a blockbuster. At best it would be lucky to rake in enough profit to be a nitch game. No moneyman, or publisher will make a multi-million $$$$ FFA PvP MMORPG though. Too much money to risk on a game feature already proven to not make money. It is easy to go on a game forum and talk about wanting someone else to risk their thousands, 100 thousand, and even a few million on making a FFA PvP game. Why not do like the people behind Runescape, Astonia 3, Strive For Power, and TDZK? Make your own game the way you like it? And of course put your money behind it? imageimage

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  • Originally posted by Johnark

    Take Star Wars Galaxies for example.  There used to be a time where no one would PVP cause dying in PVE or in PVP, your items would decay and you would get death wounds.  There came a point where barely anyone PVPed anymore and the players were whinning at SOE to do something about it.  then they made it that only in PVE does your items decay and that in PVP you lose nothing whatsoever.  Then people started to PVP again.



     SWG could've been a NICE example of PvP done right. But alas, it cannot be used as an example of PvP. Actually in SWG at first if you PvP, or PvE, and died, you had to make a corpse run. Death had some sting. A few players whined, and that game feature was turned off. No one ever PvPed in SWG, ever!

     The PvP that did happen was role playing. The end result though, was the same - nothing got accomplished. Unlike in other MMORPGs with PvP like SB, DAoC, and AO. AO still has the best PvP out of all MMORPGs. It has PvP done right. SWG toyed with the idea of having PvP for landcontroll, which AO does have. But it dropped it while in developement. The result is PvP in SWG lacks anything substatial. You kill another player, and what do you have to show for it? Their death does not hurt them hard. You do not change the game map, or game world.

     SB, and DAoC, do have good PvP, but not done right. Because although the winners of the battle do have something to show (taking over what the enemy used to own). As soon as the winners log off, there is no way to defend their gains. The enemy has an even easier time taking back what they lost.

     AO does have ways for the winners to defend what they gain while they are offline, or even off adventuring. Death in AO stings far more than in SWG (SWG basically has no death at all, that's how little death hurts LOL!). IMHO the original EQ, and AC, had the best stinging death of all, barring perma-death.

     PvP done right = the winners must have a way to defend their gains while offline. There must be PvP for landcontrol aka players can directly affect the gameworld/game map. Death must sting hard enough for the losers to feel like they lost.

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  • gattm99gattm99 Member Posts: 85

    xplororer you make some very good points, and if I had the knowledge to write my own MMORPG I would get right on it becasue I could make a damn good one. 

    Here's some things I've been thinking about,

    #1.  Why do you need 8 slots for characters.  So you can have your own little band of adventurers,  well screw that, in my game you get 2 slots, You can have a good character and an evil character, or a evil and neutral, or two neutrals, or just one, but not two goods or two evils.

    #2.  WHy does all combat have to end in death.  WHy couldn't you just beat your victim without killing them. 

    #3.  Why do you have to kill a thousand little lizards, slugs, bugs, goats, rabbits, or whatever before you can do something fun?  Killing the same stupid creature over and over is not fun. 

    #4.  Why is the only way to advanance in your typical MMORPG is killing the above mentioned stuff.  Why don't you get some XP for just doing stuff in the game world, why not get XP for making usefull items, why not get XP for just running around in game exploring (EQ2 did this)

    #5.  Would people still PK if the consequences of being caught were permadeath for that character? If you are going to make the consequences so extreme then why have it at all?  I'll tell you why, it's lame that two PCs can just walk right through eachother, it's lame that two PCs can't spar, or duel to see who can take who. 

    See I think that a good game is going to need a majority of the content to be player created.  Not NPC scripted generic quests that are lame as hell.  Like for instance a new player spawns on guild row, a place in town where all the guild houses are, he picks one out and goes in.  There a guild member who is a PC is making swords, he is making these swords for two reasons, one to raise his craft skills and make better swords, and two to give the swords to NPC peasants the guild hired to protect an area that has been won by PvP.  So the crafter checks the guilds inventory and says, hey I need some more stuff to make some more swords or to make some armor, so he tells the noob where to go get the resources at and tells him if he brings the resources back he'll give him some armor and a sword and consider him to be in the guild. 

     

     

  • GreatnessGreatness Member UncommonPosts: 2,188

    Play lineage 2! Awesome pvp! You can kill anyway except towns(except for Floran) and if you pk someone you go red, and have a more chance of losing items, if you hit someone u go purple and if someone attacks u if your purple and they kill u, then ur dead and they don't turn purple(pvp). You should try lineage 2!

    ~Greatness~
    message me if your making your own mmorpg(give some screenshots also)

    ~Greatness~

    Currently Playing:
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  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

    Maybe...

     

    If someone was only able to actually attack 1 unwilling person per week with some nasty drawbacks as well for attacking an unwilling target, I could tolerate it, but you would also need a defense locker, so once you have been unwillingly attacked, you can't be unwillingly attacked for a week as well.

     

    Bounty hunters stuff would be considered willing targets of course.

     

    As long as I can avoid the PvP almost completely, I dont mind 1 attack per week(more likely per month), that would be acceptable for the thrill it would add...but again, you need to make sure that 1 griefers is not systematically attacking the same person, there is no reason  to see always the same person coming to spoil your experience, so you should also have a counter that say you cant attack an unwilling target if you have already attack it while unwilling in the past 3 months.

     

    The idea would be to bring the fun of risk and ''possible'' PvP without bringing a chain mass murderer that just kill the fun.  I dont mind encountering folks for the first time and wondering how they will react, it add spices, but once they attack, see ya in 3 months, dont need to waste more time with the same nasty players unless we both want to.

     

    I dont support the idea of actually losing anything to the person that defeat you except that you cant zone back where they kill you for 12 hours or something like that, go hunt elsewhere(instancing are availables of course).  The only reason for PvP would be for the claiming of a hunting ground(once in a while since you can only do once a week assuming the target didnt suffer it already).

     

    I would rather pick such an extremely low setting of PvP then a PvP free server, I want PvP to be extremely rare and unlikely, but if it may happen, it add to the fun factor, no matter how rare it happen...and when it happen, you need a break from it right away.

    Since the goal would be to get an hunting area, since we want it to be rare, someone that attack an unwilling target should experience the same consequence as a death IMO, it should not be something we want to see happen, but if someone is piss enought or want a spot bad enought to experience a death penalty for the right of the hunting spot, well, it deserve some thinking...if the PvPer dont want to be penalized, he should leave the carebear alone.

     

    I would most likely attack someone once per 4 or 5 months with such a setting, and it would prolly be great for both me and the other despite the hatred running between us!  I would not care to have a full death penalty just to win my point, and if someone care the same way to win an argument over a hunting spot against me, well...I could respect that if exceptions.

     

    The main interest would be...it is RARE!  Not something happening a lot...having a 1 week limit per account per week should deter most mass murderers from the game, of course some will use it to full extend, so maybe 3 weeks or a month or have it increase exponentially after a point.

     

    Not to mention that if we are bored or maxed, I could consider using it to sneak on 1 of my RL friends just to hear him curse me!

     

    Anyway, just an idea...I am not looking for PvP at any rate.

     


    - "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

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