I love the massive whining. Go to any other game, these people are bitching that the game won't let them be special enough, now they bitch that they're too special. First of all, I like how we're not 'The Hero'. We're a small part of a massive army of risen champions. No one knows our name (Hell, when you run through they just call you another Ascended). We're not going to defeat the Lich King alone and sit next to King Chin in Stormwind Keep.
If you want to be pidgeon-holed, buddy, go back to wow. It's not like this feature is new. Look at FFXI. Sure, a lot of people use base combinations, but I can tell you, I was one of the first to go PLD/RDM back in the day and a lot of people can make deviant specs work because they don't rely on the internet to play a game. Like derps on CoH who go begging for builds rather than learning for themselves.
And speaking of CoH, there's a game with lots of customization too. And guess what? Even though people have to stick to their guns, people STILL constantly reroll to FOTM. I don't know what game you come from that doesn't have people who do that. Wanna know the scary thing? Theres still plenty of people who play what they like and who can make their own specs work. Get off the forums, playtest your own specs that tailor to your playstyle, and grow the hell up.
I love the massive whining. Go to any other game, these people are bitching that the game won't let them be special enough, now they bitch that they're too special. First of all, I like how we're not 'The Hero'. We're a small part of a massive army of risen champions. No one knows our name (Hell, when you run through they just call you another Ascended). We're not going to defeat the Lich King alone and sit next to King Chin in Stormwind Keep.
If you want to be pidgeon-holed, buddy, go back to wow. It's not like this feature is new. Look at FFXI. Sure, a lot of people use base combinations, but I can tell you, I was one of the first to go PLD/RDM back in the day and a lot of people can make deviant specs work because they don't rely on the internet to play a game. Like derps on CoH who go begging for builds rather than learning for themselves.
And speaking of CoH, there's a game with lots of customization too. And guess what? Even though people have to stick to their guns, people STILL constantly reroll to FOTM. I don't know what game you come from that doesn't have people who do that. Wanna know the scary thing? Theres still plenty of people who play what they like and who can make their own specs work. Get off the forums, playtest your own specs that tailor to your playstyle, and grow the hell up.
Why are you trolling? He didnt insult you, he didnt attack you but you insist on insulting him (go back to wow, grow the hell up ...) It is the truth are you afraid of or only a civilized forum debate? I can figure out myself who is the child here and who is bitching. I have preordered the game but I am a little concerned about the community.
So you guys are thinking that everyone will be playing the same souls on the server becouse there'll be a 3 magic soul combo with a win button? You made me laugh. This is called freedom to players, may not suit to you, but I find it great as you don't need to grind armor for each different spec, can use them for raid, dungeon, PvE, PvP, all the same armor. No grind for it. You just play to participate in public world events, or whatever suits you.
So you guys are thinking that everyone will be playing the same souls on the server becouse there'll be a 3 magic soul combo with a win button? You made me laugh. This is called freedom to players, may not suit to you, but I find it great as you don't need to grind armor for each different spec, can use them for raid, dungeon, PvE, PvP, all the same armor. No grind for it. You just play to participate in public world events, or whatever suits you.
Again, why are there callings then? And why are you pidgeon holed into calling you have chosen before even given a chance to play the game? Does that sound as freedom to you?
Meh, if you hate grind so much, why do you play a game on rails with levels? Where is freedom in that? It just does not compute.
There will definitely be builds that will give an advantage but I think given the VERY large number of potential combinations that people will be mixing and matching a lot. Sure a percentage of players will go with the FotM build but a lot will want to make their own unique build.
I've been playing with http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html all morning to try to confirm my suspicions about the build that I thought during beta to be a logical/fun/playable one. Now I am not so sure. I know the classes I like initially but whether they will be a 'feel-good' for me over time, not so sure now.
I am going to have a boatload of fun making 'my' special toon and am looking forward to it more each moment.
What does levels have to do with sandbox? A skill based game is automatically a sandbox while a level based is a themepark? Can't we have shades of grey?
The world of Rift (questing, crafting etc) are very much themepark based, but the character variations promote freedom not usually found in themepark games. Might be the reason why so many people are confused and are trying to artificially constrain themselves, when the system gives them so much more freedom instead.
What does levels have to do with sandbox? A skill based game is automatically a sandbox while a level based is a themepark? Can't we have shades of grey?
The world of Rift (questing, crafting etc) are very much themepark based, but the character variations promote freedom not usually found in themepark games. Might be the reason why so many people are confused and are trying to artificially constrain themselves, when the system gives them so much more freedom instead.
yep you're right!
true sand box is like Ultima Online. But the younger generation of gamers won't know anything about true sandbox gaming since they started their gaming around MMO like WoW.
The soul system at its core is actually pretty awesome. 8 different Souls in 4 different archtypes with varying skills contained in each soul that can be mixed and matched allows a player to really build something unqiue that few others will have exactly.
BUT Trion ruined it in the end. They gave everyone the ability to own all 8 souls per archtype at the same time. While that sounds cool it means that a player doesnt actually have to commit to anything or make any real choices. Character development is a lie. To make it worse Trion also gave players the ability to save 4 builds at once that can be switched at the flick of a button. Want that FOTW build or need to drop a soul because it got nerfed? Dont worry just respec and save todays most OP build! This game screams "have your cake and eat it too."
This is basically class anarchy. Without rules and structure anything will become a mess. The negatives will always outweigh any positives. In all walks of life. IT NEVER WORKS OUT.
Its like playing a game of monopoly but throwing out the rules, letting everyone be the car, giving everyone a piece of every property, and when you pass go you get a Ecto-cooler juicebox with oreos and everyone is a winner!
The ability to create a unique class is mostly an illusion in Rift. In the end there are really only 4 classes in this game. Its going to be very apparent to everyone else soon enough once the honeymoon period ends and they realize the reality is that almost everyone is the same 4 things.
Like the old saying goes,"When everyone is special. No one is."
I like the sense of freedom, so this system is perfect for me.
The fact you can select "your" build and how your character is going to develop is awesome. This is boosted with the roles.
Imagine that you are a healing cleric, but your guild needs a tank, change roles and bring on the fun.
I felt special while I was playing the beta and atthe end of the day is that what matters. The fun you have and how you feel. Not the fact if the others will think you are special.
Yeah, that was also one of the reasons why I won't get Rift. A minor reason, but one nonetheless. In MMORPGs, everyone likes to be special. Of course, with millions of players, noone is really unique. Yet, if you see a clone of yours every 10 minutes of every 10 months is still a difference.
To use the usual game Rift is compared to as an example: in WoW, the chance to meet a player who is roughly like you (ie = same class) is roughly 1 to 10, because of 10 difference classes. In Rift, it's 1 to 4 instead. If you consider also the races and not only class, then in WoW it's 1 to 60 to meet someone like you, in Rift it is 1 to 16.
Yet you can choose skills from 3 different trees instead of one... Now what are the chances of someone being the same as you?
It's like this: most people always go for what they're told is the best, or what impressed them most. They don't play just "what is fun", because beeing strong IS fun for them. So fun is always the currently best soul combination. And people will keep copying that. In one moment it might be pyromancer / stormcaller / elementalist or something, that is the best combo, and most people will run around like that. With the next patch, it might be chloromancer / elementalist / necromancer, and everyone will copy that again.
Example: if you play a warlock in WoW, and maybe some patch will make things harder for warlocks, some people might switch to another class for a while, but most warlock players will stay warlocks, because they have no choice once it's their main, except by levelling a completly new char.
In rift: warlock is best? Everyone changes to another soul. With each patch there will be a mass of identical players running around, who just switch to what is currently best.
I also think that it loses a connection you could build up to your char. The char can be about anything. And anyone who wants to be like you can be like you.
As said, I don't think this is gamebreaking, but it's one of te many many reasons that make me not buy the game as of now.
So you guys are thinking that everyone will be playing the same souls on the server becouse there'll be a 3 magic soul combo with a win button? You made me laugh. This is called freedom to players, may not suit to you, but I find it great as you don't need to grind armor for each different spec, can use them for raid, dungeon, PvE, PvP, all the same armor. No grind for it. You just play to participate in public world events, or whatever suits you.
Again, why are there callings then? And why are you pidgeon holed into calling you have chosen before even given a chance to play the game? Does that sound as freedom to you?
Meh, if you hate grind so much, why do you play a game on rails with levels? Where is freedom in that? It just does not compute.
Uh, so you should gain level without playing or doing anything? Did not get it. Yes there is a calling, as you need to make a decision still restricting you, but there is much more freedom as you decide on your souls compared to other games. I can count tons of negatives about rift (from my expectations from a MMO prespective) if you are looking for it, but focusing on the souls, I find great freedom
You are all talking about freedom. What do you mean? What is freedom? Is freedom what sets MMOs apart from other games or other RPGs or other activities? All the postives talk about something they do not know what is and are looking for it in the wrong place, while the negatives talk about things that are relevant to the topic and easily pinpointed.
The thread is all about marketing and cudos to Rift for that. But marketing is not game system design.
You will buy it for freedom. You will realize the game system at the very core does not support freedom. So lets talk something else cool about the souls. The ease of respeccing, the ease of forming parties, something. And I will ask again why have class restrictions then?
(And to some previous poster: yes, you can gain levels without playing, that is old feature in the industry, I am doing exactly that right now, but Rift takes it on completely new twisted level - you play rogue and get capped geared tank and healer for free, GL to your PUG, one must ask what good purpose did the levelling grind serve.)
Ok to put the origianl posters comment in perspective.
when looking for a group no one is going to care your an assasin, there going to care that your a rogue, so the person who creates the group is going to go yeah we need you to speck your rogue out this way. It means if you love your assasin rift build your going to have to be willling to play a bard in groups if they demand it. that what kind of takes away from unique character builds because there not important becuase there going to be changed on the whim.
Someone who conforms all the time to societies whims does not make them unique the person that stands out in the crowd and stands true to there beliefs does and Rift will punish the person who wants to only follow one patch you have to always be a conformist.
What does levels have to do with sandbox? A skill based game is automatically a sandbox while a level based is a themepark? Can't we have shades of grey?
The world of Rift (questing, crafting etc) are very much themepark based, but the character variations promote freedom not usually found in themepark games. Might be the reason why so many people are confused and are trying to artificially constrain themselves, when the system gives them so much more freedom instead.
yep you're right!
true sand box is like Ultima Online. But the younger generation of gamers won't know anything about true sandbox gaming since they started their gaming around MMO like WoW.
They know about them. The just avoid them like the plague because they are essentially litter boxes
Comments
I love the massive whining. Go to any other game, these people are bitching that the game won't let them be special enough, now they bitch that they're too special. First of all, I like how we're not 'The Hero'. We're a small part of a massive army of risen champions. No one knows our name (Hell, when you run through they just call you another Ascended). We're not going to defeat the Lich King alone and sit next to King Chin in Stormwind Keep.
If you want to be pidgeon-holed, buddy, go back to wow. It's not like this feature is new. Look at FFXI. Sure, a lot of people use base combinations, but I can tell you, I was one of the first to go PLD/RDM back in the day and a lot of people can make deviant specs work because they don't rely on the internet to play a game. Like derps on CoH who go begging for builds rather than learning for themselves.
And speaking of CoH, there's a game with lots of customization too. And guess what? Even though people have to stick to their guns, people STILL constantly reroll to FOTM. I don't know what game you come from that doesn't have people who do that. Wanna know the scary thing? Theres still plenty of people who play what they like and who can make their own specs work. Get off the forums, playtest your own specs that tailor to your playstyle, and grow the hell up.
Why are you trolling? He didnt insult you, he didnt attack you but you insist on insulting him (go back to wow, grow the hell up ...) It is the truth are you afraid of or only a civilized forum debate? I can figure out myself who is the child here and who is bitching. I have preordered the game but I am a little concerned about the community.
So you guys are thinking that everyone will be playing the same souls on the server becouse there'll be a 3 magic soul combo with a win button? You made me laugh. This is called freedom to players, may not suit to you, but I find it great as you don't need to grind armor for each different spec, can use them for raid, dungeon, PvE, PvP, all the same armor. No grind for it. You just play to participate in public world events, or whatever suits you.
Again, why are there callings then? And why are you pidgeon holed into calling you have chosen before even given a chance to play the game? Does that sound as freedom to you?
Meh, if you hate grind so much, why do you play a game on rails with levels? Where is freedom in that? It just does not compute.
There will definitely be builds that will give an advantage but I think given the VERY large number of potential combinations that people will be mixing and matching a lot. Sure a percentage of players will go with the FotM build but a lot will want to make their own unique build.
I've been playing with http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html all morning to try to confirm my suspicions about the build that I thought during beta to be a logical/fun/playable one. Now I am not so sure. I know the classes I like initially but whether they will be a 'feel-good' for me over time, not so sure now.
I am going to have a boatload of fun making 'my' special toon and am looking forward to it more each moment.
What does levels have to do with sandbox? A skill based game is automatically a sandbox while a level based is a themepark? Can't we have shades of grey?
The world of Rift (questing, crafting etc) are very much themepark based, but the character variations promote freedom not usually found in themepark games. Might be the reason why so many people are confused and are trying to artificially constrain themselves, when the system gives them so much more freedom instead.
yep you're right!
true sand box is like Ultima Online. But the younger generation of gamers won't know anything about true sandbox gaming since they started their gaming around MMO like WoW.
I like the sense of freedom, so this system is perfect for me.
The fact you can select "your" build and how your character is going to develop is awesome. This is boosted with the roles.
Imagine that you are a healing cleric, but your guild needs a tank, change roles and bring on the fun.
I felt special while I was playing the beta and atthe end of the day is that what matters. The fun you have and how you feel. Not the fact if the others will think you are special.
Peace and happy gaming.
It's like this: most people always go for what they're told is the best, or what impressed them most. They don't play just "what is fun", because beeing strong IS fun for them. So fun is always the currently best soul combination. And people will keep copying that. In one moment it might be pyromancer / stormcaller / elementalist or something, that is the best combo, and most people will run around like that. With the next patch, it might be chloromancer / elementalist / necromancer, and everyone will copy that again.
Example: if you play a warlock in WoW, and maybe some patch will make things harder for warlocks, some people might switch to another class for a while, but most warlock players will stay warlocks, because they have no choice once it's their main, except by levelling a completly new char.
In rift: warlock is best? Everyone changes to another soul. With each patch there will be a mass of identical players running around, who just switch to what is currently best.
I also think that it loses a connection you could build up to your char. The char can be about anything. And anyone who wants to be like you can be like you.
As said, I don't think this is gamebreaking, but it's one of te many many reasons that make me not buy the game as of now.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Uh, so you should gain level without playing or doing anything? Did not get it. Yes there is a calling, as you need to make a decision still restricting you, but there is much more freedom as you decide on your souls compared to other games. I can count tons of negatives about rift (from my expectations from a MMO prespective) if you are looking for it, but focusing on the souls, I find great freedom
You are all talking about freedom. What do you mean? What is freedom? Is freedom what sets MMOs apart from other games or other RPGs or other activities? All the postives talk about something they do not know what is and are looking for it in the wrong place, while the negatives talk about things that are relevant to the topic and easily pinpointed.
The thread is all about marketing and cudos to Rift for that. But marketing is not game system design.
You will buy it for freedom. You will realize the game system at the very core does not support freedom. So lets talk something else cool about the souls. The ease of respeccing, the ease of forming parties, something. And I will ask again why have class restrictions then?
(And to some previous poster: yes, you can gain levels without playing, that is old feature in the industry, I am doing exactly that right now, but Rift takes it on completely new twisted level - you play rogue and get capped geared tank and healer for free, GL to your PUG, one must ask what good purpose did the levelling grind serve.)
Ok to put the origianl posters comment in perspective.
when looking for a group no one is going to care your an assasin, there going to care that your a rogue, so the person who creates the group is going to go yeah we need you to speck your rogue out this way. It means if you love your assasin rift build your going to have to be willling to play a bard in groups if they demand it. that what kind of takes away from unique character builds because there not important becuase there going to be changed on the whim.
Someone who conforms all the time to societies whims does not make them unique the person that stands out in the crowd and stands true to there beliefs does and Rift will punish the person who wants to only follow one patch you have to always be a conformist.
They know about them. The just avoid them like the plague because they are essentially litter boxes