I in fact, do not contradict myself. What would need to be said from one enemy to the other in game that couldn't be served by out of game forums, while still preserving the atmosphere and war tension in game?
How about
Let's meet and see if we can divide this territory without bloodshed.
Our leaders are asses and I want to stick it to them. I have keep schedules if you have cash.
Nation X is getting a bit big. How about we join forces and knock them down a peg?
I've got [resource] in bulk and I'm selling to the highest bidder... from any nation.
We'll give your people safe passage for [condition or fee]. If any of your people have rightly paid their fee and end up harmed in that area, contact me and I will resolve the matter immediately.
Those are just some off the top of my head.
I
It's clear you haven't played DAoC then. Most of these situations simply were not possible to occur. In a sandbox FFA PvP game, sure that's perfectly viable. In a REALM VS REALM game, where you at no point played with the other people, this did NOT happen. The only trading or talking that happened was "Albion is way too powerful, let's both attack at the same time on Monday, deal?" and that was handled entirely out of game to avoid spies and the like.
I remember now and then there was paranoia about "xrealmers", plants, Albion players who were really Midgard players with a second account. That was a cool mechanic. That's gone if you can just talk willy nilly with anyone or join any side whenever you want.
I did play DAoC, and you are basically stating that in Realm vs Realm it is nothing more than a 3rd person view deathmatch. The combat of DAoC is some of the best I've played in an MMO. The PVP gameplay and options, however really aren't much more than what you could get from TF2. It's fun but really shallow on every level. That you feel that the few meaningful realm interactions are better if handled out of game is just ... interesting.
It's a Realm vs Realm game. If you want global politics and sandbox gameplay, you should have rolled on the FFA server where it was all guild based. We're talking factions and RvR right now, where there was no place for communication for the other side. Your goal was to destroy them, take their land, and reap the rewards. There is plenty of inherent depth and planning in that task alone.
If it's a PvP oriented game, it's within the interests of facilitating 'faction hate' by limiting interation. That's the reason why WoW has no cooperative actions or talking between Horde and Alliance, to create a stigma between the two, and basically dehumanize them.
I guess some are into that, but mob mentality and blind hatred just because the other people are a different color just doesn't seem like my idea of fun. Being able to establish personal reasons for animosity or, even better, establish personal reasons for cooperation and cameraderie seems like a better route for building more meaningful conflict and ties.
Actually I agree with this. I've never liked how Blizzard has been trying to artificially promote faction hate. I have friends that play both Horde and Alliance, some on the same server (PvE ruleset). I really don't see why I shouldn't be able to speak, or even group with, members of the other faction on a PvE server, where 99% of the PvP takes palce in instanced BGs anyways.
First of all, I think that chat should be language based. If you can't speak elvish you should not understand elves in the chat but you can of course learn the language, even if a cross faction languages should be harder to learn. I don't even think you should be able to take quests from npcs that talks a language you don't understand.
Secondly, on a PvE server it is a no brainer. There is no reason to limit chat there.
On a PvP server things are different. I could agree that a specific neutral chat could exist but it would not really be a bother to me if it doesn't. But the general chat should be restricted, it gives too much away otherwise.
I love that the person who first brought this up in the thread also happens to be one of the posters I respect the most here on MMORPG.com.
I have always yearned for an MMO to get CRAZY with the different species, at least in terms of language. I always felt like there was a lot of uptapped potential for story and lore with a system where each race has their own language, and no one speaks any language but their own to start.
If you were able to learn the other languages, I think this could make some of the best end-game conent. Epic quest chains that really immerse you in the story and history and people of a race that would allow your character to learn another race's language. Each race could have race-dependant requirements before they are willing to let you learn so much about them. I've always wanted to see a communication system get crazy like this.
I also think it would do a lot for RP for races to start out with their own, ensuring that entire species playing have a similar "perspective" having all shared the first parts of the game. I also think it would add a lot of depth to multi-species/race guilds. Think of it, new characters might potentially have to go through a period where they can't necessarily speak to anyone who isn't their race, which would kind of have to set up a dynamic of same-species "representatives" within the guild. I just think its a situation that's ripe for heavy story and RP.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Everyone is making good points, however I think the discussion is rather moot. I'm sure any devs discussing game reasons for cross faction chat would come to the same conclusion (in secret of course).
They just don't want the adminstrative headaches vs not have cross faction chat. You'll have to convince them it is worth their while to reverse a set precedent.
Set it off and forget it, or turn it on and have to deal with more players issues. And I don't think many would not play a game because they can't talk to the enemy. They'll just grumble about it.
If you want the game to be all one big happy family (like trading, chatting, grouping' guild treaties etc) Just play Eve. There are really no factions except NPC's. In fact with a big sandbox game factions are useless.
On the other hand, If the game has you choose a faction then cross faction interaction should only be in battles (My opinion). TBH I don't even like it when games allow you to create characters on both/all factions on the same server. There is nothing less fun than secretly getting up a big group to go attack the caapitol city (say stormwind) ... and finding all the high level alliance players on the server waiting for you and you are wiped out. (Because someone with a char on your side heaerd about it and logged onto the other side and broadcast it ... I suppose this is really the same as cross faction com ... except it is covert ... peeps can always get around a system .. so why just make it easier)
Really I understand everybodies reasons for wanting to be chummy with the enemy. I just can't see the point of having an enemy if they are in the same comunications/trade/grouping with no real separation. It would be like a one faction game with more races/classes(in some cases) playing together. Eve can be fun .... and it can be a pisser. It is like real life ... spies cheaters and thieves abound as part of the game. I personally prefer the faction style of gaming. But hey thats just me. Fortunately there are many games to choose from and they are not all the same .. tho a lot of them are ... maybe because we say we want them to be. heh
Cross faction communication is fine. In fact, cross faction grouping, trading, etc, can also be fine. It depends on the context of the game however.
If it's a PvP oriented game, it's within the interests of facilitating 'faction hate' by limiting interation. That's the reason why WoW has no cooperative actions or talking between Horde and Alliance, to create a stigma between the two, and basically dehumanize them.
If it's a PvE ruleset game however, where there is no prevelent overworld struggle between factions, even if there are a few PvP zones or instances where they clash, I see no reason why they shouldn't just allow players of different factions to speak, group, or otherwise interact with each other.
heh, Wow only has one human group ... in alliance ..... then there are elves, gnomes, dwarves, and dranei. There are no Humans on the hoard side ... so why would you want to "Humanize them"? All the races have their own language (which you can use if you like ... i think it is like "/language trollish" (or whatever the language name on your char frame says)) and then a common language for each faction. Human Common for alliance and Orcish for hoard.
Cross faction communication is fine. In fact, cross faction grouping, trading, etc, can also be fine. It depends on the context of the game however.
If it's a PvP oriented game, it's within the interests of facilitating 'faction hate' by limiting interation. That's the reason why WoW has no cooperative actions or talking between Horde and Alliance, to create a stigma between the two, and basically dehumanize them.
If it's a PvE ruleset game however, where there is no prevelent overworld struggle between factions, even if there are a few PvP zones or instances where they clash, I see no reason why they shouldn't just allow players of different factions to speak, group, or otherwise interact with each other.
I think game context is pretty important. I do enjoy communication in PvP, however as it harbors more of a "community feel" to the PvP instead of fighting people you can't communicate with at all. That just makes me feel like I'm playing against MOBs with AI mods. I like my worlds, be it PvP or PvE to feel more alive than that. Otherwise I could just play my single player games and get AI mods!
This is where I disgress and go on about how I'd love a game that starts all races in different places with their own learnable language, but since I've already gone here in this thread, I will resist.....
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Everyone is making good points, however I think the discussion is rather moot. I'm sure any devs discussing game reasons for cross faction chat would come to the same conclusion (in secret of course).
They just don't want the adminstrative headaches vs not have cross faction chat. You'll have to convince them it is worth their while to reverse a set precedent.
Set it off and forget it, or turn it on and have to deal with more players issues. And I don't think many would not play a game because they can't talk to the enemy. They'll just grumble about it.
A valid point, about the administrative end. I happen to be one of the few who won't play a game (at least not dedicatedly) with NO cross-faction communication, but I am sure I'm in the minority.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
It's for smack talk and the one bonehead who tries to ruin it for their "side" in PvP. But yeah, go wild.
I hear plenty of smack talk in my own side, limiting communication with half the server doesn't stop that. That's what /ignore and report are for! I understand it opens up how many people you get to hear it from, but as long as the game has an /ignore command, then whats the problem?
As far as the one bonehead who tried to sabotage their side in PvP, there is nothing preventing that asshat from getting Ventrilo or Teamspeak and doing it anyway. Since they are inclinded to act like this, its a safe bet they will take the 2 minutes it takes to DL & install one of these programs. Take away cross-faction communication and this problem doesn't go away, but we've lost all the benefits of keep it.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
If you want the game to be all one big happy family (like trading, chatting, grouping' guild treaties etc) Just play Eve. There are really no factions except NPC's. In fact with a big sandbox game factions are useless.
On the other hand, If the game has you choose a faction then cross faction interaction should only be in battles (My opinion). TBH I don't even like it when games allow you to create characters on both/all factions on the same server. There is nothing less fun than secretly getting up a big group to go attack the caapitol city (say stormwind) ... and finding all the high level alliance players on the server waiting for you and you are wiped out. (Because someone with a char on your side heaerd about it and logged onto the other side and broadcast it ... I suppose this is really the same as cross faction com ... except it is covert ... peeps can always get around a system .. so why just make it easier)
Really I understand everybodies reasons for wanting to be chummy with the enemy. I just can't see the point of having an enemy if they are in the same comunications/trade/grouping with no real separation. It would be like a one faction game with more races/classes(in some cases) playing together. Eve can be fun .... and it can be a pisser. It is like real life ... spies cheaters and thieves abound as part of the game. I personally prefer the faction style of gaming. But hey thats just me. Fortunately there are many games to choose from and they are not all the same .. tho a lot of them are ... maybe because we say we want them to be. heh
Its not always about chumminess with the enemy. Sometimes you need crafting materials or some items and you can't get them any other way than paying double the going rate to deal with the devil. Also, depending on the context of the game, I find it limiting lore/story-wise to NEVER be able to bring in an element that could be a common goal or enemy of the opposing factions. Eliminating cross-faction communication pretty much precludes that possibility.
In addition to that, who doesn't want to know what that dude that just pwnd you in PvP and is now teabagging you is saying?! (jk I know this is an argument against)
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Comments
It's a Realm vs Realm game. If you want global politics and sandbox gameplay, you should have rolled on the FFA server where it was all guild based. We're talking factions and RvR right now, where there was no place for communication for the other side. Your goal was to destroy them, take their land, and reap the rewards. There is plenty of inherent depth and planning in that task alone.
Actually I agree with this. I've never liked how Blizzard has been trying to artificially promote faction hate. I have friends that play both Horde and Alliance, some on the same server (PvE ruleset). I really don't see why I shouldn't be able to speak, or even group with, members of the other faction on a PvE server, where 99% of the PvP takes palce in instanced BGs anyways.
I love that the person who first brought this up in the thread also happens to be one of the posters I respect the most here on MMORPG.com.
I have always yearned for an MMO to get CRAZY with the different species, at least in terms of language. I always felt like there was a lot of uptapped potential for story and lore with a system where each race has their own language, and no one speaks any language but their own to start.
If you were able to learn the other languages, I think this could make some of the best end-game conent. Epic quest chains that really immerse you in the story and history and people of a race that would allow your character to learn another race's language. Each race could have race-dependant requirements before they are willing to let you learn so much about them. I've always wanted to see a communication system get crazy like this.
I also think it would do a lot for RP for races to start out with their own, ensuring that entire species playing have a similar "perspective" having all shared the first parts of the game. I also think it would add a lot of depth to multi-species/race guilds. Think of it, new characters might potentially have to go through a period where they can't necessarily speak to anyone who isn't their race, which would kind of have to set up a dynamic of same-species "representatives" within the guild. I just think its a situation that's ripe for heavy story and RP.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Everyone is making good points, however I think the discussion is rather moot. I'm sure any devs discussing game reasons for cross faction chat would come to the same conclusion (in secret of course).
They just don't want the adminstrative headaches vs not have cross faction chat. You'll have to convince them it is worth their while to reverse a set precedent.
Set it off and forget it, or turn it on and have to deal with more players issues. And I don't think many would not play a game because they can't talk to the enemy. They'll just grumble about it.
If you want the game to be all one big happy family (like trading, chatting, grouping' guild treaties etc) Just play Eve. There are really no factions except NPC's. In fact with a big sandbox game factions are useless.
On the other hand, If the game has you choose a faction then cross faction interaction should only be in battles (My opinion). TBH I don't even like it when games allow you to create characters on both/all factions on the same server. There is nothing less fun than secretly getting up a big group to go attack the caapitol city (say stormwind) ... and finding all the high level alliance players on the server waiting for you and you are wiped out. (Because someone with a char on your side heaerd about it and logged onto the other side and broadcast it ... I suppose this is really the same as cross faction com ... except it is covert ... peeps can always get around a system .. so why just make it easier)
Really I understand everybodies reasons for wanting to be chummy with the enemy. I just can't see the point of having an enemy if they are in the same comunications/trade/grouping with no real separation. It would be like a one faction game with more races/classes(in some cases) playing together. Eve can be fun .... and it can be a pisser. It is like real life ... spies cheaters and thieves abound as part of the game. I personally prefer the faction style of gaming. But hey thats just me. Fortunately there are many games to choose from and they are not all the same .. tho a lot of them are ... maybe because we say we want them to be. heh
If Ya Ain't Dyin, Ya Ain't Tryin
heh, Wow only has one human group ... in alliance ..... then there are elves, gnomes, dwarves, and dranei. There are no Humans on the hoard side ... so why would you want to "Humanize them"? All the races have their own language (which you can use if you like ... i think it is like "/language trollish" (or whatever the language name on your char frame says)) and then a common language for each faction. Human Common for alliance and Orcish for hoard.
If Ya Ain't Dyin, Ya Ain't Tryin
I think game context is pretty important. I do enjoy communication in PvP, however as it harbors more of a "community feel" to the PvP instead of fighting people you can't communicate with at all. That just makes me feel like I'm playing against MOBs with AI mods. I like my worlds, be it PvP or PvE to feel more alive than that. Otherwise I could just play my single player games and get AI mods!
This is where I disgress and go on about how I'd love a game that starts all races in different places with their own learnable language, but since I've already gone here in this thread, I will resist.....
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
A valid point, about the administrative end. I happen to be one of the few who won't play a game (at least not dedicatedly) with NO cross-faction communication, but I am sure I'm in the minority.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
I hear plenty of smack talk in my own side, limiting communication with half the server doesn't stop that. That's what /ignore and report are for! I understand it opens up how many people you get to hear it from, but as long as the game has an /ignore command, then whats the problem?
As far as the one bonehead who tried to sabotage their side in PvP, there is nothing preventing that asshat from getting Ventrilo or Teamspeak and doing it anyway. Since they are inclinded to act like this, its a safe bet they will take the 2 minutes it takes to DL & install one of these programs. Take away cross-faction communication and this problem doesn't go away, but we've lost all the benefits of keep it.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Its not always about chumminess with the enemy. Sometimes you need crafting materials or some items and you can't get them any other way than paying double the going rate to deal with the devil. Also, depending on the context of the game, I find it limiting lore/story-wise to NEVER be able to bring in an element that could be a common goal or enemy of the opposing factions. Eliminating cross-faction communication pretty much precludes that possibility.
In addition to that, who doesn't want to know what that dude that just pwnd you in PvP and is now teabagging you is saying?!
(jk I know this is an argument against)
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.