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Is this game for me?
Killarai
Member UncommonPosts: 36
Hey there, I'm an Ultima Online vet, also loved SWG and even dove into Wurm for quite awhile.
I hated Mortal Online, it was a mock of UO in the worst way.
I would like to know if this game is worth my time, what do you think I would love in the game, what do you think I'd hate, and what should I expect in overall sandbox goodness?
If you're like myself, you're still looking for that sandbox game to stop your nightmare of a search.. I want to know if some of you have stopped searching and have finally settled.
Comments
I haven't played UO, SWG or Wurm so i'm not qualified to answer your question, but still... I'm drunk enough to try.
There is a dispute about how PvP should look like right now. I hope griefing crowd won't find a way to force their vision.
A lot of features are missing and are promissed for launch or shorlty after, that's a risk of pre-ordering.
Anyone who tried it will tell you that it has potential and basicly that's all we can say now. Xsyon is so much player driven that we're not sure how gameplay will look like after launch.
I know a lot of UO, SWG and RV players that like this game.
There is deep crafting system, I'm looking forward to create deep economy and politics based on it and war to complete the picture.
Jooky has a good plan and he's more likely to give in to crafters than PvP'ers. By that I mean that he probably won't take route of DF or MO.
This game is different(ask anyone who tried it), it gives you hope and (sometimes promised) tools to create game that you want to play, it's next "best ever" sandbox, and I hope it will be this time.
I go with the above poster on this one.. Combat isn't really effective right now, but been reading on the forum that it's something they'll keep improving after launch.. So if you can get over that, I think you're in for a pleasant surprise...
Lots of stuff isn't clear about this game and the devs hope to keep it that way.. Strangely, I like that idea that players will have to discover new stuff as they play and as time goes... I haven't played SWG, but was a huge addict of UO.. if that can help..
The pvp does need work, it is FFA world pvp but thats not the focus of the game that's just for the Evil alignment players mostly.
But as far as promise goes xsyon is the Only True sandbox on the market it has it all terraforming, Deep Deep Deep Crafting system i mean Deeper then Pre-CU SWG (i loved SWG my favorite mmo of all time till i played Xsyon).
Just worth it man iv been in the community with Xsyon for a year now and i mean No one loves the game there developing as much as Jordi loves xsyon.
And its $40 so what.
But Pvp will not be deleted like the whiner's want it just wont be the main focus like Darkfall and i like that because i love PVP but it need's more then that and Purpose
(Not grind X mob for X mats to make X armor so i can go fight X amount of times till it breaks or is looted, then Repeat).
Subbed, don't let me down!
Ah, you already subbed
but for all others:
If you like Wurm, you will most likly also like this game. Many gamemechanisms are the same. You form a small town with others, you can terraform the world with a shovel, you need to eat and drink, your actions cost energy that you need to refresh, so its basicly like Wurm.
But there is no mining, so you cant go underground. And there arent that many items and buildings yet as in Wurm. No torches, different streets, and such things.
There are also different skills that rise by using and get lower when you dont use them for a longer time.
Skills like running, swimming, fishing and so on. Like Wurm again.
But the crafting skills are not as spread as in wurm, where nearly every action has its own skill. The craftings are based on maybe 9 different crafting types? (basketry, tailoring, woodcrafting, leatherwork, terraforming...)
But now what Xsyon has what Wurm doesnt:
It got full animations, You can see everything you are wearing, even necklaces! You can wear clothes and armor over it. You can wear about 20 different things art the same time. So much costumazion.
For crafting, you need materials and tools. The better your skill, the better quality your products. Thats the same to Wurm. But you need to rise your skillevel to be able to build certain things. And the recipies to build something are random, so noone got the same recipies and not at the same time. You also need to learn new ones from books you find.
There is also more then one product to everything. There might be less tools and houses then Wurm online. But there are like 10 different Tents to build, many different walls, different clothes, weapons, tools, maybe like 10 different shovels? Their biggest difference is mostly their look and their quality level. But there are also many items the same quality, so you can just choose what you prefer to build. That makes the game unique too.
Exploring and fighting is similar to Wurm. The fighting is very basic and no shields, but the basic combat is similar to wurm. You got a weapon, you hit something, and the damage is based on strenght, weaponskill and weapon.
Dead animals are used for leatherwork or other craftings. At the m oment, animals are pretty rare, but they will get a spawnrate just like in Wurm. they will also be tameable and breed by their own.
You can log trees, cut them to size and build houses with it.
You can just carry a certain amount of things, before you get to heavy. You can mostly just carry 4 items of collected things, like grass, or metal junk. They just stack on your back, thats a funny thing
And you can just carry one big log on your bag.
So, it is pretty similar at the base functions to Wurm online. Its lacking in the big variation of Features, but even these were added to wurm online over years. At the moment, it might be the same as wurm when it became gold. But it got many pros, like animation, visible clothes and a big variation of same items and random rcipies.
But I'm pretty sure that everyone who liked Wurm will also like this gamestyle.
I think you cant really compare it to SWG, its sandbox too, but somehow different. But Wurm is very close to it.
dude thats a fortune, i could eat for a week with 40 bucks
I really have to hear the details on this. What makes it deeper?
It's just like really really deep man.
FFA PvP without safezones (1).... The rest of the mechanics raise or fall with this decision.
1. A safezone doesn't need to be 100% safe, but the consequences for killing someone in these zones have to be so harsh, that the majority of players refrains from engaging in unconsentual PvP there.
As Xsyon announced to do away with the current safezones after release, I see this game in the same light as DF/MO/Earthrise and they didn't really grow big for this fact and are more like an "online-shooter" with a real bad community.
SWG or EvE Online on the other hand managed to implement FFA PvP the way, that players accept to live with it.
interesting, well Im an environment first kind of player, I like living worlds and interactive ones. The problem I see with many of the pure pvp games is lack of content, I do like crafting and am flexible on some level to pve content, I just dont like games that break their back to cater to progression raiding. I like EVE, Ryzom, Spellborn bofore it sadly died, Fallen Earth was very good, Just not into end of the world mad max set ups. But if its crafting and terraforming heavy thats fine with me, two things I liked in UO, was crafting and pvp, I just hated having to make separate toons for both. I AM rather psycotic about balanced pvp systems, having dealt with the overfluffed out of whack system WOW used. So Ill let the game release and see how it goes with the first wave of players.
This is actually the plan for the entire world, eventually. Jooky has a fairly harsh system of punishment set up that severely penalizes "evil" players that will go active during the Prelude. Likewise, he does plan on removing tribal safe zones, but he also plans on letting people add defensive structures to their lands that would accomplish basically the same thing, just without the artificial mechanic.
In my palm I hold the world, in my hand I grasp it.
I loosened my fist but for an instant,
and thus I failed to clasp it.
In my palm I hold the world, in my hand I grasp it.
I loosened my fist but for an instant,
and thus I failed to clasp it.
I highly doubt the safe zones will be removed tbh. There would be an outcry.
This is why the game will never be a solid sandbox. They want to restrict a players choice to playing a good crafter, by giving those characters a safe and easy progression rout, while at the same time making anyone who wants to play combats life a living hell to progress. harsh systems of punishment in a sandbox is not a sandbox, the players should self enforce any rules or laws they see fit.
They are also planning a fun sounding cannibalization skill, to harvest resources from players, which will instantly make you evil and subject to harsh punishments.
The harsh punishments are permanant skill and stat losses, in case people are un aware.
FFA Full Loot PVP is "not" synonomous with whether or not an MMO is a good sandbox game, despite what you believe.
PVP has to be carefulllydesigned to neither favor the ganker or the gankee too heavily (see EVE) or the game quickly falls into the small, niche category. (see DF/MO or yes, even UO pre-trammel)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
No, they are not. Your statement is either a misconception or an outright lie, friend.
Jooky's own words:
Re:PVP rules
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/2274-PVP-rules?p=32725#post32725
You are wrong.
In my palm I hold the world, in my hand I grasp it.
I loosened my fist but for an instant,
and thus I failed to clasp it.
In fact, here is the entire system, as planned by Jooky:
Conflict, Death, Consequences and Decisions
In my palm I hold the world, in my hand I grasp it.
I loosened my fist but for an instant,
and thus I failed to clasp it.
Agreed, however, knowing how a combat character must progress in game, such punishments is quite restricting on a players choice in how to play the game.
Also i would like to point out how fun tribal wars will be, when there are few evil aligned tribes and many good aligned tribes, as well as an overall lacking of combat oritented characters.
sandboxes should never take steps in punishing a chosen route of play. id rather them take pvp out of the game, aside from tribal wars, so that there will be a balance between evil and good factions.
if they do put this in, theres not going to be much of a point to be anything other than a safe zone camping crafter....and what good are those crafted items if there is no pvp in which to lose the items, or even use the armor or weapons. this isnt a mob heavy game, mobs are very rare....at least for the next year untill the rest of the game may or may not be released (timeframes are rough with this game)
All im suggesting, is that they not tease people into joining with the sandbox with full loot pvp lable, and then restrict that option is all. This game would currently make a far better sim/real life sandbox, and you wouldnt have the large darkfall and MO exiled community here, thinking they were going to get a pvp game. that is all.
wow
finally a mmorpg game designer who is actually thinking about pvp game design
.. beyond "you can kill everybody and take all their stuff" or "you can kill some people but it does not matter even if you do"
wow
frankly i lost all hope regarding this. for the past 10 years or so the field's been taken over by folks who grew up either on super mario or pre-trammel uo holocaust... without any ability to go beyond these two models.
i'm not making any predictions, it's just amazing that someone is finally THINKING about the repercussions and long-term effects of the niceties of a PvP game system
Every game aside from Darkfall, Shadowbane, and Mortal Online is this...not sure why your shocked to see this tbh...
personally, i think a balanced blend of a solid real life sim game with a solid darkfall pvp game would be something fresh and new. there is a lot more to do here than just gank and pillage, something DF never had, and MO never deliverd on.
Paragraph by paragraph:
1. This is a game where good and evil exist, with consequences for each. The game does not restrict your ability to PvP, but it does force you to act more cautiously. If you want to play the part of a PK, then you will life the life of an outlaw, a monster, or an evil tribe. You want games where there are virtually no differences between playstyles? At risk of sounding horribly cliched, WoW is your game of choice. Every route you can take there is almost exactly the same.
2. Good and good tribes can still go to war with each other, but never to the same extent. This is a game where good and evil both exist. The developer has described the game (and indeed, it is on the main website) as a fable, i.e. a moral tale. And when combat receives its overhaul, I can guarantee you that there will be no shortage of combat-oriented characters.
3. He is not restricting any playstyle. Refer to number one.
4. I'm fairly sure that your game of choice is Mortal Online. Their game is designed around every principle you tout. This is not as much a game about warfare as it is about civilization building. Warfare is apart of it, BUT IT IS NOT THE FOCUS. Nor should it be. That leads you down the path of Darkfall.
5. Xsyon never advertised itself that way, because it has never advertised itself. Yes, full loot and FFA PvP are a part of the game, but, again, IT IS NOT THE FOCUS. Xsyon is an ACTUAL sandbox, NOT a PvP arena.
Snailtrail:
"Every game aside from Darkfall, Shadowbane, and Mortal Online is this...not sure why your shocked to see this tbh..."
No. Neither Darkfall nor Mortal Online have any real consequences for PvP that affect the game. In both cases, their flagging systems are a joke and have no real impact whatsoever.
In my palm I hold the world, in my hand I grasp it.
I loosened my fist but for an instant,
and thus I failed to clasp it.
Reread who i quoted and what i wrote Invertus, not sure you understand what point i was trying to make.
Aside from the games i mentioned, every game made does exactly what the guy i quoted said. Offer heavy repercussions for pvp, offer pve servers, offers only consesnual pvp.
saying that finally a game is made that isnt a repercussion free gankfest is assuming that the only games ever made were darkfall, shadowbane and mortal online.
get it?
Yes... and no.
You can never have "realistic" PvP without a realistic PvP penaltiy - and that is perma death. And no one in their right mind would play such a game, just like I wouldn't want to go to a real war without a really good reason. Newsflash - there are no respawns in real life.
Having a no-holds-barred ffa PvP ruleset in a game without perma death is not "realistic". In fact it is highly unrealistc. Just imagine real life with "respawns". The civilization as we know it now wouldn't exist. You'd have something else. And the games that are in the sandboxy "realistic" mold want to mimic real life rather than that "something else".
So.. in order to compensate for the lack of perma-death you need to think out your PvP ruleset really well in order for the rl illusion to hold on. Too many of the sandox king-of-the-hill-wannabees mindlessly try the "it's a free for all" route crossing their fingers hoping everything will end up well.
Well it didn't end up well so far. Nor it ever will because you cannot have ffa full-loot PvP civilization without perma-death. Xsyon's devs at least acknowledge this problem rather than just saying "well it's cool killing people, taking all their stuff, while they're not even logged on.. without consequences if you fail because you're running around naked and they're asleep or their connection simply just failed - oh well it'll sort itself out... The crafters and non-PvPers will hang on because they're .. masochists
Haha." This model does not work. Period. There has to be some kind of well thought out (VERY well thought out) system that would compensate for the lack of rl PvP penalties in order for the game's social ecology to function properly (resemble some kind of a "real" society rather than a collection of immortal freaks ganking each other in the bushes)
You dont like pvp...i get it. Lots of people hate it. I never got this, as you never actually lose anything of value, its a video game, everything is replacable ect.
Either way this games been trying to launch its beta for around, if not over, a year now. There are bigger fish to fry.
I would also like to point out how baffling it was to see so many people who loath and fear pvp in this game, knowing it had full loot ffa pvp. perhaps they knew that the developer would make the pvp route a non viable route though.
there is a very large DF community and MO community in game that is just now learning this all...going to be interesting to see the size of the community and what shape it is in after they impliment these harsh punishments. That is if they can get this game stable and launch ready ever.
What are you talking about? I love PvP. I play mmos for PvP, however masochistic it might seem. The game I play right now is WAR because it is the closest you can get to a real strategic PvP in mmos right now (just shows how pathetic's the genre got these past years...). On the other hand I don't really dig EVE because there's too much bean-counting and not enough PvP in that game (and that's where the whole death-penalty discussion might come in again...)
Looking forward to GW2 and 90% of that is for WvW alone which makes my mouth water.
However, I still feel that Xsyon is not that kind of a game. It is not a "PvP" game. The death penalties themselves don't make it a PvP game. High death penalties don't make a game "more PvP" - in fact they detract from PvP beause in every encounter you stand to loose more than you gain. Therefore imo the devs decision to make it ffa full-loot PvP game which is NOT pvp-centric makes much much more sense than a game with similar ruleset that counts on being all about PvP (Say DFO, MO and EVE to a lesser extent) . It's basic game theory really. You don't punish the behaviour you want to encourage. It's that simple really.
I'm playing and am interested in Xsyon for reasons other than PvP. I get my PvP fix from games that have their rulesets geared towards PvP (say they don't PUNISH me for it, duh*).
* basic game theory again.. if you kill someone in a full-loot PvP you can a) win - get to rummage through his gear and maybe find one or two things better than yours to improve yourself a bit or b) loose and end up naked without anything. That's ffa full-loot no-holds-barred PvP for ya. Death express spiral lol. Haha only suicides or sneaky murderers ambushing the helpless would engange in PvP with these rules. Hide in the bush and gank lowbies while they spawn as the only strategy worth pursuing lol.