I have a great game for you if you like risk vs reward.
Its real life. Join the military, go shoot up random RL noobs. Its awesome. Like if you get hit, you`re punished by extreme pain, lacerations or even permanent death. I suggest you give it a shot.
If you think your life is too precious, you can always try investment. All you risk is your money. If you invest at the wrong place, you lose some, if you dont, you make some.
Good lord, its really a shame there are people like this on these boards. You just don't understand, do you?
Games with more risk gives the player a heightened state of gaming, because it pulls them in more, the highs are high, the lows are low, some people like that better than WoW, which is just ... a steady low.
Also, no, no AAA MMOs have had death penalties since 2004, except Vanguard. Another reason why I probably would have to try REALLY hard to even remember a play session in said MMOs. I have no connection to my character and honestly couldn't care less if he died, cause nothing happens. There's no sense of urgency or danger in the game, I'm not drawn into it.
I actually find full loot PvP boring, when you get to a certain point, you dont really care much for the equipment, if so, you got it stored.
Which leads me to the thought that the next hardcore pvp modus will include "con loss", aka you have a certain amount of constitution, and each time you die there is a chance you will loose one point when ressurected, eventually leading to permadeath.
I don't know why you brought FFA full loot PvP into this. This seems to be the only argument people every use. They go and point at EverQuest or Ultima Online as examples of what all death penalties were like, and scream about how awful they were.
Guys, Before WoW came out there were SEVEN years of MMOs, dozens of titles with different forms of death penalties. Why is it you keep assuming that the only MMO that ever existed before WoW was EverQuest. "Corpse runs sucked!" as an excuse against death penalty "camping mobs sucked!" as an excuse for instances. There were other games that didn't have these problems. Good lord.
Simple. Those who go on (and on...) about "risk vs reward" obviously aren't getting what they want in most of todays MMO's. So, one obvious possibility is to direct them to games that have much more "risk vs reward". That being some of the FFA full loot gank fests.
I'm well aware of what UO was like. I was in pre trammel... I also remember why it changed... Not only that, but I was also in Asherons Call(1) for a couple of years. NO, I don't want to go back to corpse runs and lost gear. I, and much of the player population have moved on in our tastes. That being the case, its little surprise that games that target the mass audience, have also tended to drop corpse runs and exp loss. There is also the fact that UO and some of the others could do that, because at the time, there wasn't all that much choice. These days, games with harsh death penalities niche themselves.
As I've stated, I wish everyone who is on the eternal quest for the One True Game(tm) the very best of luck. No doubt it will *always* be just beyond the horizon. Today thats GW2 or some other such. But once such people have some experience with GW2, no doubt they will set their sights on the next game, thats just over the horizon. I'm done with that rat race.
when it comes to pve games i prefer some kind of meaningfull death penalty to help prevent idiotic zerg fests and promote tactical group play. i simply do not get attached to the world or it's lore if there is no danger in dying so i naturally avoid the kiddie games.
anyway, maybe they had a "hardcore" server or special death penalty within dungeons or raids to achieve a sense of danger.
Not gonna happen. It might cause a casual player to stop playing basically any feature that could add depth/risk vs reward, has to get measured up against "will casual players enjoy this?" which is why we've had NO innovation in 6 years of AAA games outside of public quests, and Vanguard's systems.
Well, when one is in this for the money, one does what will appeal to the mass audience <shrug>. I personally have had much more than my fill of corpse runs, lost exp and lost gear. I simply will not play such games any more. That having been said, I wish those who are still seeking the One True Game(tm) all the best of luck. But I suspect that eternal quest is doomed to eternal disappointment. I'm just not interested in running after the Holy Grail any more. All I'm looking for at this point is an enjoyable, well polished game. Rift fits that bill nicely.
Just wait till the higher level zones -- There are times when it can take upwards of 20 minutes to get back to your body. First zone where this is noticable is if you are on the wrong side of scarlet gorge (that run takes about 7 or 8 minutes).
20 minute runs are like where you have a craft turnin down in droughtlands and you respawn back in gloamwood....
I have a great game for you if you like risk vs reward.
Its real life. Join the military, go shoot up random RL noobs. Its awesome. Like if you get hit, you`re punished by extreme pain, lacerations or even permanent death. I suggest you give it a shot.
If you think your life is too precious, you can always try investment. All you risk is your money. If you invest at the wrong place, you lose some, if you dont, you make some.
Good lord, its really a shame there are people like this on these boards. You just don't understand, do you?
Games with more risk gives the player a heightened state of gaming, because it pulls them in more, the highs are high, the lows are low, some people like that better than WoW, which is just ... a steady low.
Also, no, no AAA MMOs have had death penalties since 2004, except Vanguard. Another reason why I probably would have to try REALLY hard to even remember a play session in said MMOs. I have no connection to my character and honestly couldn't care less if he died, cause nothing happens. There's no sense of urgency or danger in the game, I'm not drawn into it.
Here's the deal. FFA games are designed with that in mind, which means that the majority of equipment is junk. Thus the system allows you to lose them with minimum fuzz.
In the rare occassion that people have something more precious, they eliminate any kind of risk themselves by running in such huge packs that make losing impossible through zerging tactics.
So really, if you want to see some meaninful PvP, you better avoid FFA style games. They are "supposed" to be more "hardcore", while in reality all the loss does is make people avert to any kind of risk taking.
i prefer a challenging mmo with a real death penalty, like xp loss, or something equivalent time-wise. can someone explain the risk vs. reward system in this game? i did play WoW and the death penalty just wasn't severe enough as gold was too easy to come by to repair the gear.
There is no significant difference, between death penalties in WoW and Rift to answer your question. Rift has been designed to appeal to a large market, and hardcore death penalties do not appeal to the vast majority of gamers.
Even in games that do have them, like EVE online, it can only take one faulty connection or computer glitch to find yourself set back a month or more of playing time. It also provides an additional burden on Customer support as inevitably many people will look for ways to blame anything but themselves on their death and want compensation or gear returned.
In short, keep walking. On the other hand if Trion keeps up with their aggressive efforts to counteract gold sellers, then gold penalty may just be enough for you.
The difference between WoW and Rift is that you can't cheat the system by going naked. When you die, you got to pay the price, however small that may be.
i prefer a challenging mmo with a real death penalty, like xp loss, or something equivalent time-wise. can someone explain the risk vs. reward system in this game? i did play WoW and the death penalty just wasn't severe enough as gold was too easy to come by to repair the gear.
Im like you on this one and i dont think there is something like that in this game, its just another MMO that look to gather the WoW-like crowd, so its pretty much hopeless.
I have a great game for you if you like risk vs reward.
Its real life. Join the military, go shoot up random RL noobs. Its awesome. Like if you get hit, you`re punished by extreme pain, lacerations or even permanent death. I suggest you give it a shot.
If you think your life is too precious, you can always try investment. All you risk is your money. If you invest at the wrong place, you lose some, if you dont, you make some.
Good lord, its really a shame there are people like this on these boards. You just don't understand, do you?
Games with more risk gives the player a heightened state of gaming, because it pulls them in more, the highs are high, the lows are low, some people like that better than WoW, which is just ... a steady low.
Also, no, no AAA MMOs have had death penalties since 2004, except Vanguard. Another reason why I probably would have to try REALLY hard to even remember a play session in said MMOs. I have no connection to my character and honestly couldn't care less if he died, cause nothing happens. There's no sense of urgency or danger in the game, I'm not drawn into it.
Unfourtunately the MMO industry has a disease and it is called Casuality. It means everything has to be easy and everyone should be able to get everything in the shortest amount of time possible. You can thank WoW for that.
I have a great game for you if you like risk vs reward.
Its real life. Join the military, go shoot up random RL noobs. Its awesome. Like if you get hit, you`re punished by extreme pain, lacerations or even permanent death. I suggest you give it a shot.
If you think your life is too precious, you can always try investment. All you risk is your money. If you invest at the wrong place, you lose some, if you dont, you make some.
What would be the point of a death penalty in Rift? How would it make sense in the context of the world? Returning the dead to life (or creating a whole new individual from scratch) and sending them back in time with the unearned knowledge of three other dead people is not an issue for either faction.
You can't just add one feature to a game and suddenly make the whole game better. Especially a feature with no context.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Should of played Everquest a few years back when you had Corpse Runs and experiance loss (still have the exp loss currently). When you died you had to run from zone to zone naked dodging mobs and other nasty things untill you got back to your corpse and your gear, that is if you didn't already die a few more times trying to get to your gear. And if you didn't get your corpse in 7 days, you lost EVERYTHING on that corpse.
that was painful. Paying a cleric for a rez was better if you had the Plat. Now I remember why I hated that game.
I was playing chess the other day, and lamented how boring it was because there wasn't a death penalty.
wow.
your example is lame.
Not at all. Its an example of a game that is enjoyable, in and off itself. There is no need of a death penalty.
It is a very lame example, each piece its removed from the game when its dead... if it was WoWchess then every piece will be back to their last position... so the game will last longer and they will get more time the subs.... mmh maybe thats AsianGrindchess instead... lame example anyway
i prefer a challenging mmo with a real death penalty, like xp loss, or something equivalent time-wise. can someone explain the risk vs. reward system in this game? i did play WoW and the death penalty just wasn't severe enough as gold was too easy to come by to repair the gear.
Sorry, you are out of luck. Rift has a reasonable DP. It costs gold to mend ones soul. You might want to try one of the Asian gank fests, some of them still have exp and/or item loss. You might also try Darkfall or Mortal Online. They are FFA full loot. Is that enough of a death penalty?
I think think they also want, for example, to helplessly watch as the Satyr that kills you teabags your corpse for 15 minutes.
Sorry, OP. This game is not for dopamine addicts. It basically uses WoW's system except it's your soul that's damaged rather than your gear. Pretty smart, really, compared to WoW's system which forever more requires every new item in the game to have a durability rating. With the soul death penalty, they no longer have to do any more work on it, ever.
I was playing chess the other day, and lamented how boring it was because there wasn't a death penalty.
wow.
your example is lame.
Not at all. Its an example of a game that is enjoyable, in and off itself. There is no need of a death penalty.
It is a very lame example, each piece its removed from the game when its dead... if it was WoWchess then every piece will be back to their last position... so the game will last longer and they will get more time the subs.... mmh maybe thats AsianGrindchess instead... lame example anyway
The example is fine. Chess's death penalty is you lose. Since in an MMO dying also means losing, then chess must obviously not have a severe enough DP for the OP to find "enjoyable".
And no, that wouldn't be "WoWchess". The monster that killed you immediately gets all its HP back. And more than likely, any other creatures you killed will probably have respawned by the time you get back. And you initially rezz with less than half your hit points, so you're kinda hosed if you can't rezz somewhere out of aggro. In short, if you lose, you pretty much start the game all over. Just like chess.
In the example of a harsh death penalty, the Chess equivilent would be, when you lose, you start the next game without one of your back row pieces. Lose again, you lose another piece, etc. Giving an edge to the winner makes no sense whatsoever, even if the winner is a PvE opponent.
Should of played Everquest a few years back when you had Corpse Runs and experiance loss (still have the exp loss currently). When you died you had to run from zone to zone naked dodging mobs and other nasty things untill you got back to your corpse and your gear, that is if you didn't already die a few more times trying to get to your gear. And if you didn't get your corpse in 7 days, you lost EVERYTHING on that corpse.
that was painful. Paying a cleric for a rez was better if you had the Plat. Now I remember why I hated that game.
And trying to get a SoW to help with that run .. or get a necro to come along to summon it to the zone in :P
Originally posted by Robsolf Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by ARGH69
i prefer a challenging mmo with a real death penalty, like xp loss, or something equivalent time-wise. can someone explain the risk vs. reward system in this game? i did play WoW and the death penalty just wasn't severe enough as gold was too easy to come by to repair the gear.
Sorry, you are out of luck. Rift has a reasonable DP. It costs gold to mend ones soul. You might want to try one of the Asian gank fests, some of them still have exp and/or item loss. You might also try Darkfall or Mortal Online. They are FFA full loot. Is that enough of a death penalty? I think think they also want, for example, to helplessly watch as the Satyr that kills you teabags your corpse for 15 minutes. Sorry, OP. This game is not for dopamine addicts. It basically uses WoW's system except it's your soul that's damaged rather than your gear. Pretty smart, really, compared to WoW's system which forever more requires every new item in the game to have a durability rating. With the soul death penalty, they no longer have to do any more work on it, ever.
I have no idea if the Chess example was good or not. I can see it from both sides of the issue. The death penalty already exists, and adding some kind of 'harsh' death penalty makes no sense. I think with Rift, any sort of death penalty where you lose XP makes no sense and wouldn't add any value to the game.
The Satyr thing made me smile though. I'm still smiling about it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I have a great game for you if you like risk vs reward.
Its real life. Join the military, go shoot up random RL noobs. Its awesome. Like if you get hit, you`re punished by extreme pain, lacerations or even permanent death. I suggest you give it a shot.
If you think your life is too precious, you can always try investment. All you risk is your money. If you invest at the wrong place, you lose some, if you dont, you make some.
Good lord, its really a shame there are people like this on these boards. You just don't understand, do you?
Games with more risk gives the player a heightened state of gaming, because it pulls them in more, the highs are high, the lows are low, some people like that better than WoW, which is just ... a steady low.
Also, no, no AAA MMOs have had death penalties since 2004, except Vanguard. Another reason why I probably would have to try REALLY hard to even remember a play session in said MMOs. I have no connection to my character and honestly couldn't care less if he died, cause nothing happens. There's no sense of urgency or danger in the game, I'm not drawn into it.
Then you're drawn into a game for the wrong reason.
If you're killed 30 times, lose everything and three levels then achieving that uber sword of elite ownage makes you feel all the better I guess. It must be a yin & yang thing or something akin to masochism.
You will mainly see this in the dungeons if you are running thru them the first time at the level recommended for them.
So far I have done 2 dungeons and thru those 2 I have died about 4 deaths each dungeon.
As you die you get soul loss and the only way to recover is from a soul healer. Soul Healers are scattered at various hubs and at town. Problem is that the place you go after dieing is usually close to the dungeon and not the soul healer. You will need to get to the soul healer to get back to full soul power. It is easy the first 2 deaths since one will drop you to 90% and the second one you can recall and get a soul healer....but the 3rd or 4th death are alot of running around to get back to full again.
It's a good system and once that does punish for death but not as badly as some other games.
This company has learned alot about thier craft from others and they noted that it's not fun to cause horrible punishments for failures in a game. It's supposed to be about having FUN after all....so let's keep it fun and skip the nasty exp debt and other things like losing gear or gear breaking.
The more I think about it, the more appropriate the Chess example seems compared to Rift. Each encounter in Chess results in a winner and a loser. In each encounter you either take a piece from the opposing player, or you lose a piece yourself. This does not apply to PvP (because you die so much) but in PvE, every time you die, you lose 10% of your effectiveness. In chess, each time you lose, you lose some % of your effectiveness. The difference is that you can reset the game at any point by seeing a soul healer. You could do that in Chess too, but you'd quickly run out of people to play with because you'd keep resetting the game every time you lost your first pawn.
:-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The more I think about it, the more appropriate the Chess example seems compared to Rift. Each encounter in Chess results in a winner and a loser. In each encounter you either take a piece from the opposing player, or you lose a piece yourself. This does not apply to PvP (because you die so much) but in PvE, every time you die, you lose 10% of your effectiveness. In chess, each time you lose, you lose some % of your effectiveness. The difference is that you can reset the game at any point by seeing a soul healer. You could do that in Chess too, but you'd quickly run out of people to play with because you'd keep resetting the game every time you lost your first pawn.
:-)
or just get a pawn back to the enemy's first rank and trade for one of yours.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by lizardbones The more I think about it, the more appropriate the Chess example seems compared to Rift. Each encounter in Chess results in a winner and a loser. In each encounter you either take a piece from the opposing player, or you lose a piece yourself. This does not apply to PvP (because you die so much) but in PvE, every time you die, you lose 10% of your effectiveness. In chess, each time you lose, you lose some % of your effectiveness. The difference is that you can reset the game at any point by seeing a soul healer. You could do that in Chess too, but you'd quickly run out of people to play with because you'd keep resetting the game every time you lost your first pawn.
:-)
or just get a pawn back to the enemy's first rank and trade for one of yours.
I don't think I want to try and run my Defiant Cleric to the backside of the Guardian territory on a PvP server. I attract enough people trying to kill me in Warfronts as it is being a Cleric, nevermind being on their side of the map.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
Ha
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
wow.
your example is lame.
Simple. Those who go on (and on...) about "risk vs reward" obviously aren't getting what they want in most of todays MMO's. So, one obvious possibility is to direct them to games that have much more "risk vs reward". That being some of the FFA full loot gank fests.
I'm well aware of what UO was like. I was in pre trammel... I also remember why it changed... Not only that, but I was also in Asherons Call(1) for a couple of years. NO, I don't want to go back to corpse runs and lost gear. I, and much of the player population have moved on in our tastes. That being the case, its little surprise that games that target the mass audience, have also tended to drop corpse runs and exp loss. There is also the fact that UO and some of the others could do that, because at the time, there wasn't all that much choice. These days, games with harsh death penalities niche themselves.
As I've stated, I wish everyone who is on the eternal quest for the One True Game(tm) the very best of luck. No doubt it will *always* be just beyond the horizon. Today thats GW2 or some other such. But once such people have some experience with GW2, no doubt they will set their sights on the next game, thats just over the horizon. I'm done with that rat race.
Well, when one is in this for the money, one does what will appeal to the mass audience <shrug>. I personally have had much more than my fill of corpse runs, lost exp and lost gear. I simply will not play such games any more. That having been said, I wish those who are still seeking the One True Game(tm) all the best of luck. But I suspect that eternal quest is doomed to eternal disappointment. I'm just not interested in running after the Holy Grail any more. All I'm looking for at this point is an enjoyable, well polished game. Rift fits that bill nicely.
Not at all. Its an example of a game that is enjoyable, in and off itself. There is no need of a death penalty.
Just wait till the higher level zones -- There are times when it can take upwards of 20 minutes to get back to your body. First zone where this is noticable is if you are on the wrong side of scarlet gorge (that run takes about 7 or 8 minutes).
20 minute runs are like where you have a craft turnin down in droughtlands and you respawn back in gloamwood....
And you cant use the portals as a ghost....
Nor can you use a mount.
Here's the deal. FFA games are designed with that in mind, which means that the majority of equipment is junk. Thus the system allows you to lose them with minimum fuzz.
In the rare occassion that people have something more precious, they eliminate any kind of risk themselves by running in such huge packs that make losing impossible through zerging tactics.
So really, if you want to see some meaninful PvP, you better avoid FFA style games. They are "supposed" to be more "hardcore", while in reality all the loss does is make people avert to any kind of risk taking.
The difference between WoW and Rift is that you can't cheat the system by going naked. When you die, you got to pay the price, however small that may be.
Im like you on this one and i dont think there is something like that in this game, its just another MMO that look to gather the WoW-like crowd, so its pretty much hopeless.
hmm, 5 centuries worth of players that might disagree with you.
Unfourtunately the MMO industry has a disease and it is called Casuality. It means everything has to be easy and everyone should be able to get everything in the shortest amount of time possible. You can thank WoW for that.
My gaming blog
It is a very lame example because that game is not an RPG and there wont make any sense to have any death penalties.
Who would get the penalty? And for what?
Lame example is lame.
My gaming blog
+1
hahahahahahahaha
What would be the point of a death penalty in Rift? How would it make sense in the context of the world? Returning the dead to life (or creating a whole new individual from scratch) and sending them back in time with the unearned knowledge of three other dead people is not an issue for either faction.
You can't just add one feature to a game and suddenly make the whole game better. Especially a feature with no context.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
that was painful. Paying a cleric for a rez was better if you had the Plat. Now I remember why I hated that game.
It is a very lame example, each piece its removed from the game when its dead... if it was WoWchess then every piece will be back to their last position... so the game will last longer and they will get more time the subs.... mmh maybe thats AsianGrindchess instead... lame example anyway
I think think they also want, for example, to helplessly watch as the Satyr that kills you teabags your corpse for 15 minutes.
Sorry, OP. This game is not for dopamine addicts. It basically uses WoW's system except it's your soul that's damaged rather than your gear. Pretty smart, really, compared to WoW's system which forever more requires every new item in the game to have a durability rating. With the soul death penalty, they no longer have to do any more work on it, ever.
The example is fine. Chess's death penalty is you lose. Since in an MMO dying also means losing, then chess must obviously not have a severe enough DP for the OP to find "enjoyable".
And no, that wouldn't be "WoWchess". The monster that killed you immediately gets all its HP back. And more than likely, any other creatures you killed will probably have respawned by the time you get back. And you initially rezz with less than half your hit points, so you're kinda hosed if you can't rezz somewhere out of aggro. In short, if you lose, you pretty much start the game all over. Just like chess.
In the example of a harsh death penalty, the Chess equivilent would be, when you lose, you start the next game without one of your back row pieces. Lose again, you lose another piece, etc. Giving an edge to the winner makes no sense whatsoever, even if the winner is a PvE opponent.
And trying to get a SoW to help with that run .. or get a necro to come along to summon it to the zone in :P
I think think they also want, for example, to helplessly watch as the Satyr that kills you teabags your corpse for 15 minutes.
Sorry, OP. This game is not for dopamine addicts. It basically uses WoW's system except it's your soul that's damaged rather than your gear. Pretty smart, really, compared to WoW's system which forever more requires every new item in the game to have a durability rating. With the soul death penalty, they no longer have to do any more work on it, ever.
I have no idea if the Chess example was good or not. I can see it from both sides of the issue. The death penalty already exists, and adding some kind of 'harsh' death penalty makes no sense. I think with Rift, any sort of death penalty where you lose XP makes no sense and wouldn't add any value to the game.
The Satyr thing made me smile though. I'm still smiling about it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Then you're drawn into a game for the wrong reason.
If you're killed 30 times, lose everything and three levels then achieving that uber sword of elite ownage makes you feel all the better I guess. It must be a yin & yang thing or something akin to masochism.
The system will punish you for PvE deaths.
You will mainly see this in the dungeons if you are running thru them the first time at the level recommended for them.
So far I have done 2 dungeons and thru those 2 I have died about 4 deaths each dungeon.
As you die you get soul loss and the only way to recover is from a soul healer. Soul Healers are scattered at various hubs and at town. Problem is that the place you go after dieing is usually close to the dungeon and not the soul healer. You will need to get to the soul healer to get back to full soul power. It is easy the first 2 deaths since one will drop you to 90% and the second one you can recall and get a soul healer....but the 3rd or 4th death are alot of running around to get back to full again.
It's a good system and once that does punish for death but not as badly as some other games.
This company has learned alot about thier craft from others and they noted that it's not fun to cause horrible punishments for failures in a game. It's supposed to be about having FUN after all....so let's keep it fun and skip the nasty exp debt and other things like losing gear or gear breaking.
The more I think about it, the more appropriate the Chess example seems compared to Rift. Each encounter in Chess results in a winner and a loser. In each encounter you either take a piece from the opposing player, or you lose a piece yourself. This does not apply to PvP (because you die so much) but in PvE, every time you die, you lose 10% of your effectiveness. In chess, each time you lose, you lose some % of your effectiveness. The difference is that you can reset the game at any point by seeing a soul healer. You could do that in Chess too, but you'd quickly run out of people to play with because you'd keep resetting the game every time you lost your first pawn.
:-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
or just get a pawn back to the enemy's first rank and trade for one of yours.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I don't think I want to try and run my Defiant Cleric to the backside of the Guardian territory on a PvP server. I attract enough people trying to kill me in Warfronts as it is being a Cleric, nevermind being on their side of the map.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.