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Hardware Upgrade
Hi guys,
I know, people often ask these questions. Anyway, I was hoping for some helpful comments regarding a hardware upgrade.
My current system runs an intel dual core E5300 (2.5Ghz), 4 (3) GB DDR2 Ram [800MGZ] and a Radeon 4850; all powered by a 430 Watt power supply.
I've started to notice choppiness and generally slow performance, espcially compared to newer systems (like the new MacPro we have at work 
).
I was thinking about chanchanging the board, cpu and ram - later followed by the gfx card. I am not looking into the high end stuff, just something to future-proof the system for the next 2-3 years. No fixed budget, but something in the 450€ range would be ideal. My planned purchases:
AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition
CoolIT ECO A.L.C. CPU Cooler
ASUS M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3, Socket-AM3
Crucial DDR3 1333MHz 8GB KIT, CL9 (+ Windows 7 64bit, to make that work)
I guess the main question concerns the board - lots of choices but no clue what is really the most appropriate model for my needs. For example, I don't plan on running SLI so having 2 PCIe slots seems a little redundant.
So any feedback would be great!
Comments
Your set up sounds fine but I don't believe you need all that ram 4 - 6 GB is fine runnig at 1333+. I do recommend you get a newer card sooner then later, check newegg and tiger, there are some good deals on 5 series ati's. Oh, a good 600+ watt power supply would be nice too.
Ram just seems dirt-cheap these days and I do use my computer for work-related stuff ocassionally where more ram comes in handy.
The Powersupply is a good point. I used a website to calcuate my power needs with the new setup and that came out at 350W. So there seems to be some room there still.
You tend to want more then enough wattage because you get more clean energy that way (a touch inefficient I know), helps the proc and the card power through some stuff.
OP, that looks alright, but make sure that that's a good 430W PSU before you start putting those new parts in. I'm a little concerned because it's probably getting to be an older PSU, and if it really isn't of good quality, it could end up failing on you with the added strain of a quad core CPU.
Also, forget the liquid system. Those self-contained easy setup type systems are absolutely no better than a high end air cooler, and for that price, you could get a Titan Fenrir or a Thermalright TRUE (you'd probably even pay less).
Other than that, it looks like it'd be an alright upgrade. CPU-wise you'd gain a lot. You still might end up finding your GPU wanting after awhile though (and that would require a new PSU most likely). Just thoughts for the future.
Cheers for those thoughts.
The PSU is a Seasonic S12 (or some such), which got pretty favorable reviews and is said to be extremely capable. So I'll just wait and see what happens there. As for the GPU - that is on the list, just not at the top right now. It seemed to me that the CPU/Ram were the main bottleneck in the current configuration. But a new gfx card is certainly planned. Will see about the PSU; from what I read e.g. a Radeon 6850 has about the same power needs as the 4850. But again, no big deal switching PSUs if need be...
While your power supply should be good enough quality, it's an older model that dates to before virtually everything switched to the +12 V rail. It can only do 348 W on the +12 V rails, and while it would likely be fine with a new processor and the old video card, you're cutting it closer than would be comfortable. Your new processor will use a lot more power than your old one, too.
If you get a Phenom II X4 Black Edition processor, then just keep the stock cooler unless you're looking to greatly overclock it. It ships with a pretty nice stock cooler that likely performs comparably to a $20 aftermarket cooler.
The appropriate modern motherboard to pair with a Phenom II X4 is one with the AMD 870 chipset and SB850 southbridge. You can also use an older motherboard with an AMD 770 chipset and it will work just fine, but merely be lighter on features. Actually, you could probably get an AMD 770 chipset motherboard that takes DDR2 memory and keep your old memory if so inclined. You'd be better off with DDR3, though, as the processor can make use of the extra bandwidth. The 880G chipset is for integrated graphics, which you're not going to use. Asus and Gigabyte are the big names in motherboards.
You don't need 8 GB of system memory for gaming; 4 GB is enough. If you do want 8 GB, then get it in a kit with two modules of 4 GB each, not four modules of 2 GB each. Also make sure that the memory is rated at 1.5 V, so that you're not effectively paying the memory vendor to overclock it for you. 1333 MHz is the appropriate speed.
Ok, that was quite informative, thank you!
So would a Corsair 80x certified 550W PSU be sufficient then?
Honestly, I think you'll get better performance doing this upgrade the other way around.
Your CPU is not that bad, and the performance jump from DDR2 to DDR3 is not that big either. Of all your components, I'd peg your 4850 as the weakest link (although you are right, you probably will want to upgrade it all eventually).
I would probably go for a new power supply and video card now (which will probably cost as much as a new motherboard/CPU/RAM, if not more depending on the video card you go for). That should get you an immediate and noticable boost in all the games you are playing now (some RTS's and other very CPU-intensive games may still lag a bit, but they will undoubtedly look better).
The 550W Corsair is not a bad choice, with that power supply I wouldn't go over an nVidia 560/AMD 6950, any AMD 6800 series would be good, and the nVidia 460 series would be good. Any of the higher cards would probably need a bit more juice to be comfortable.
Then, when your ready for phase 2 of your upgrade plan, the newer AMD and Intel chips will likely be out in force (Bulldozer/Sandy Bridge), and you can get a much bigger return on your upgrade investment.
If you mean the Corsair VX550, then yes, that would work nicely. It may be discontinued, though, as it seems to be disappearing. It's often somewhat overpriced, but if you can find a good deal on it, then go ahead. New Egg had an Antec Neo Eco 520 W for $40 with free shipping briefly, but that deal seems to be over.
The only particularly good deal that I see at the moment is this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371021
It's considerably more wattage than you need, though. Some other alternatives:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151094
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371035
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194088
None of those are priced far enough below the Antec TruePower New 650 W to justify buying them instead, though. It's not just the wattage difference; the Antec TruePower New is higher quality, too.
Or if you wait a week, then maybe something appropriate to your needs will show up for $60.
The argument against that is pretty simple: if you've got a decent video card that can't turn settings as high as you'd like, you can still make the game run very smoothly by running the game at moderate graphical settings instead. If your processor is insufficient, then you're stuck, and have to either live with choppy frame rates or play a dfiferent game instead.
But the argument in favor of your approach is pretty substantial, too. To elaborate on what you said, Sandy Bridge motherboards are in the process of coming back to market, and Bulldozer is launching soon (Q2 2011), too. So there are big things coming in the near future for processors. There's nothing new that is terribly important coming in video cards until late this year, as enough of the current generation of cards is out that filling in a few holes doesn't matter much.
On the other hand, the new processors only matter if they fit your budget. You're looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of $400 for a Core i5 2500, a good P67 motherboard, and an aftermarket heatsink and fan. Bulldozer pricing isn't yet announced, but an eight core Zambezi likely won't be cheaper than that, either--though the four- and six- core salvage parts likely will. Meanwhile, you can get a Phenom II X4 Black Edition, a good motherboard, and the stock heatsink (which is vastly better than the Sandy Bridge stock heatsink) for around $240.
Just to give an update - bought the above components and new system is running like a dream. Thanks again!
Meaning which parts? The ones you mentioned in your original post, or did you alter it some?
Good point - went with 4GB Ram, Corsair 550W PSU and an Asus M4A87TD board.
The stock cooler is surprisingly good, CPU never gets above 52 degrees celsius under full load.
Yeah, that sounds about right for that CPU and cooler.
Just beware, that 55C or so is the absolute temperature at which that CPU can maintain normal operation. You won't break anything if you exceed that, but for some reason, Phenom II CPUs don't remain stable above 55C, something that overclocking guides will note, and my experience confirms. It's why I can't overclock mine notably, even with a Titan Fenrir (not if it gets hot in this room).
52 is okay, but just keep that in mind as a heads up.
Grats on the upgrade, sounds like it's working out well for you.
I'd be shocked if it isn't stable above 55 C at stock speeds. Now, if you overclock it some, that will decrease the temperature at which it can be stable, but all processors work like that. A typical Phenom II X4 Black Edition processor can probably reach 5 GHz, but may not be stable at that speed if the temperature is above, say, -100 C. Note the minus sign there.
My own Phenom II will not stabilize, even under a very small overclock (3.6-3.8ghz), at above 55C. Unfortunately, the 965 just seems to sit very close to the threshhold of destabilizing. Given that literally any overclock, no matter how small, destabilizes my own CPU with the stock cooler (regardless of voltage, not that you should have to raise that for a 200mhz OC), I wouldn't expect the threshold at 3.4ghz to be much higher. Afterall, 3.4ghz is not some magical number. It's just where the clock is set on CPUs binned as 965s, and it's only ~6% slower than 3.6ghz (which 975s run at, incidentally), so I doubt there's any enormous difference in stability.
I suppose it's remotely possible that I'm wrong on that; of course, it'd be hard to test that unless I disconnected the fan on my cooler, since I have no way to get a stock clocked CPU above about 45C with this cooler. Still, I'm not the only one who notes this rather low threshold, and as it seems to hold true for just about any overclocking, regardless of how much or little you OC it, as my CPU hit the wall at the same temp whether at 3.6ghz, or 4.0, I again doubt that 3.4 will behave much differently. Sadly, these chips just don't seem to do well, heat-wise.