Static loading vs. Dynamic loading : instances

osmunda

In a different thread, I tried to contrast MO with other games using UE3. Others who have used the Atlas technology, and Unreal technology, have opted for instance based games. I noted that Mortal online does not use instances, but was told that I was wrong and given explanations of how it does use instances (which I did not understand). Certainly, I could misunderstand the terminlogy so I thought "Let's do a quick reality check.." and did a quick google search.  "instance mmo definition" brought up the two pages noted below, which essentially match my understanding of the terms.

I understand that MO has delineations between servers controlling different geographic regions in the game and that a player's data gets transmitted from one "node" to another as they travel with each node regulating interactions in a smaller region, but that does not fit my understanding of an instance.

A more precise description would be tnat MO is a seamless persistent world that uses dynamic streaming.. If that is not an accurate description, please give details of how this is wrong.

 

http://geekdictionary.computing.net/define/instance

 

14 7

Instance Definition: A segment of gameplay in MMORPGs in which players form a group together and enter a special area in the game world, usually through some type of portal. They are then essentially cut off from the rest of the gamers in that only people who are in the group when the group passes through the portal will be able to enter the dungeon with them. Other groups may enter the dungeon, but will not encounter the first group, hence they are in a different INSTANCE of the same dungeon. The use of instances allows players to avoid the risk of kill-stealing or spawn-camping by other players. Loot and monster level inside an instance is usually higher than anywhere else in the game world, and there are usually specific systems in place to ensure the fair distribution of loot among party members.  Usage: My guild just did a new instance for the first time and I won some pretty awesome loot.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/loaded-zones-understanding-mmo-server-t10339.html

 

Static Loading (sometimes referred to zoning or instancing, neither of which is accurate…) – when you see the loading screen and the game stops... This happens in nearly every MMO when you enter a dungeon or a personal instance. Static loading is NOT streaming. Streaming is dynamic loading. 



Dynamic Loading – this is when an area loads sections of the next zone as you approach it. This is also referred to streaming in some cases. However, this is ambiguous, as streaming occurs in many games within a single zone. 

 

Seamless World - An MMO world that is streamed in large chunks throughout the main game-world. WoW is considered a Seamless world. It does have static loading screens between continents, but the majority of the open world is seamless. GW2 is NOT seamless, confirmed.



Persistent World – A persistent world is an MMO world in which the main game-world is open and can be effected by any player. These changes are stored on the server, and persist through logout or if you leave the area. Persistent worlds are not always seamless. GW2 is a persistent world, confirmed. 

 

Slapshot1188

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/59733-nodelines.html

 

I'm not sure where MO fits in.. to me it seems like some sort of hybrid.  It's NOT instance based, but it does have "zones" which cause upto a minute (or more!) of loading.   The lack of a splash screen is kind of irrelevant to me as it's the delay that is important.  It doesn't matter if I spend 30 seconds looking at a loading screen or a frozen screen.  

Ruellis

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/59733-nodelines.html

 

I'm not sure where MO fits in.. to me it seems like some sort of hybrid.  It's NOT instance based, but it does have "zones" which cause upto a minute (or more!) of loading.   The lack of a splash screen is kind of irrelevant to me as it's the delay that is important.  It doesn't matter if I spend 30 seconds looking at a loading screen or a frozen screen.  

 Minute or more of loading? what are you talking about?

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by Ruellis

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/59733-nodelines.html

 

I'm not sure where MO fits in.. to me it seems like some sort of hybrid.  It's NOT instance based, but it does have "zones" which cause upto a minute (or more!) of loading.   The lack of a splash screen is kind of irrelevant to me as it's the delay that is important.  It doesn't matter if I spend 30 seconds looking at a loading screen or a frozen screen.  

 Minute or more of loading? what are you talking about?

 That highlighted thing that starts with http: is a link.  When you click on it, you till be taken to another place.  In this case a thread that answers your question!

Rohn

Originally posted by Ruellis

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/59733-nodelines.html

 

I'm not sure where MO fits in.. to me it seems like some sort of hybrid.  It's NOT instance based, but it does have "zones" which cause upto a minute (or more!) of loading.   The lack of a splash screen is kind of irrelevant to me as it's the delay that is important.  It doesn't matter if I spend 30 seconds looking at a loading screen or a frozen screen.  

 Minute or more of loading? what are you talking about?

 

Indeed.  A minute or more of loading before normally crossing node lines is an absolute lie.

Have there been some hiccups with crossing node lines.  It's possible, though I've never experienced such a thing, and certainly not "a minute or more".  But, 99.999% of the time during the lifetime of the game, moving between node lines is completely seemless.  Saying otherwise shows either ignorance about the game, or is intentionally attepting to decieve people here.

Rohn

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by Ruellis

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/59733-nodelines.html

 

I'm not sure where MO fits in.. to me it seems like some sort of hybrid.  It's NOT instance based, but it does have "zones" which cause upto a minute (or more!) of loading.   The lack of a splash screen is kind of irrelevant to me as it's the delay that is important.  It doesn't matter if I spend 30 seconds looking at a loading screen or a frozen screen.  

 Minute or more of loading? what are you talking about?

 That highlighted thing that starts with http: is a link.  When you click on it, you till be taken to another place.  In this case a thread that answers your question!

 

Amazingly enough, that highlighted thing shows a few people complaining of some hanging between nodes.  For most of them, the delay is measured in seconds - not the "minute or more" delay you've erroneously attrbuted to being a "hybrid" game design.

It also shows that the problem has existed for most of the people in the link you've provided for about a week.  Again, not "hybrid" design.

MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by Ruellis

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/59733-nodelines.html

 

I'm not sure where MO fits in.. to me it seems like some sort of hybrid.  It's NOT instance based, but it does have "zones" which cause upto a minute (or more!) of loading.   The lack of a splash screen is kind of irrelevant to me as it's the delay that is important.  It doesn't matter if I spend 30 seconds looking at a loading screen or a frozen screen.  

 Minute or more of loading? what are you talking about?

 That highlighted thing that starts with http: is a link.  When you click on it, you till be taken to another place.  In this case a thread that answers your question!

I saw this thread pop up, I read the link: from what I understood from that link, the freezing sounds like a bug that happens since recently and only to some people, not everyone, it's not the standard situation.

So I was puzzled why you would present it as if the freezing is a default situation happening in MO, from what I got from your post.

Then I read some more of your posts: in all of them you sound consistently negative about MO, to the point of sometimes dragging unneeded arguments into the debate or only focus on some aspects of the facts ignoring the rest, all seemingly directed towards making MO look in as bad a light as possible.

I'm not judging or so, I'm neutral regarding MO, but it was a pattern that I found evident from observation.

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by Ruellis

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/59733-nodelines.html

 

I'm not sure where MO fits in.. to me it seems like some sort of hybrid.  It's NOT instance based, but it does have "zones" which cause upto a minute (or more!) of loading.   The lack of a splash screen is kind of irrelevant to me as it's the delay that is important.  It doesn't matter if I spend 30 seconds looking at a loading screen or a frozen screen.  

 Minute or more of loading? what are you talking about?

 That highlighted thing that starts with http: is a link.  When you click on it, you till be taken to another place.  In this case a thread that answers your question!

 

Amazingly enough, that highlighted thing shows a few people complaining of some hanging between nodes.  For most of them, the delay is measured in seconds - not the "minute or more" delay you've erroneously attrbuted to being a "hybrid" game design.

It also shows that the problem has existed for most of the people in the link you've provided for about a week.  Again, not "hybrid" design.

 Perhaps you misunderstand. 

 

If you have to load info when you cross a node it means that the info was not available to you before hand.  The amount of time is just a matter of degree.  I mean.. by definition a seamless world is just that, a world that has no seams. A seam is defined as "the line formed by sewing together pieces of cloth, leather, or the like."

In this case you have "nodes" which are stitched together.  A true "seamless" world would not have this issue.  Now, today's technology has such a world difficult to create and the node system may be the best currently available, but it IS in fact a hybrid of sorts.  It's not an instance but it's obviously not seamless as nodes are exactly that... seams..

osmunda

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/59733-nodelines.html

I'm not sure where MO fits in.. to me it seems like some sort of hybrid.  It's NOT instance based, but it does have "zones" which cause upto a minute (or more!) of loading.   The lack of a splash screen is kind of irrelevant to me as it's the delay that is important.  It doesn't matter if I spend 30 seconds looking at a loading screen or a frozen screen.  

Hate to say it, but that sounds like a problem in how the data is being handed off from one node to the next (i.e. a bug), If things were working smoothly, this would be a few milliseconds (i.e. dynamically loading)

Of course it is an illustration of why not using instances makes the programming more difficult. 

osmunda

An open invitation to anyone who wishes to further explain how MO is an "instanced" game and how that relates to static vs dynamic loading.........

osmunda

Just a couple tidbits...

one not so interesting, but fairly clear on defining "instance"

http://www.websters-dictionary-online.org/definitions/instancing?cx=partner-pub-0939450753529744%3Av0qd01-tdlq&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=instancing&sa=Search#922

 

Instancing

Instancing may refer to:

• 
  Geometry instancing, a technique used in realtime rendering.
• 
  Dungeon instancing, a technique used in online games to provide several groups of customers with their own instances of some sort of content at the same time.
• 
  Java (programming language)

And another that is somewhat interesting (Brad Mcquaid discussing instancing) where it is fairly clear that he is using the definition given above.

 

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums//showthread.php?t=21705&page=1

osmunda

In object-oriented programming an instance is an occurrence or a copy of an object, whether currently executing or not. Instances of a class share the same set of attributes, yet will typically differ in what those attributes contain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instance_(computer_science)

As promised in the other thread, here is why it is technically correct to say that MO has instances (though pretty useless)

According to the definition above a node is in fact an instance. That is, it is an object (a location on the world map) When people describe and MMO as instanced, however, it is fairly clear that they don't mean that it is an MMO with locations. As generally used it means that it instantiates another copy of a location when certain criteria are met. (i.e. a different group enters, the area exceeds some predetermined maximum capacity, etc.).

As I said at the outset of the thread, a more accurate description for MO may be "seamless persistent world that uses dynamic streaming."

HerculesSAS

I stated this in another thread, but I'll reiterate it more simply if I can.

 

Nodes vs Instances in hardware and software, are the *same* thing. It's simply a design decision and will not affect the game unless a single node is overwhelmed with load. The benefit of instancing is that you can offer the *same* area to users and have unlimited amount of players in a single area, because as you hit your load you spin up a new "instance" for it.

 

At the current time MO doesn't have enough players to make the load unbearable on ANY node in the game, and deflecting to the idea that an instance based game works and a node based one doesn't has nothing to do with the fact it's an instance or a node. As I said, it's the same thing in hardware and software, it's purely a design decision. It has nothing to do with the fact that SV's game is broken and DCUO works fine.