The Bioware we all embraced no longer exists , the one we have now is just cheap EA bride ,and as soon as EA is done with them they will dismantle whats left like the many other Devs they have purchsed over the years , None of them have survived , why would anyone think Bioware will be differnet they are the next vicitm of EA , probably will completly be dismantled in 2-4 years max..
Is this some kind of wishful thinking, just because they make games that aren't in the genre you like, classic RPG?
The fact that all their last games sold magnanimous and that they have 3 big titles this year proves enough that they won't be gone within the next 4 years. Besides, at least they have the guts to try different things, in contrast to other big game companies who after their big first success keep making sequels within the same franchise: Halo, Call of Duty/Modern Warfare, Starcraft, Diablo, to name a few.
Bioware could have made easily a BG3 or NWN3 or KOTOR 3, and they would've sold gold.
Instead they made KOTOR after BG.
With NWN they went into making one of the best world creator tools around, which resulted into fantastic player made MORPG worlds.
Then they went onto a completely new track with Jade Empire, away from high fantasy and scifi into an original Asian themed fantasy setting.
After that, they again didn't make a sequel, but launched 2 new franchises, with intriguing worlds, and in the case of ME/ME2 with different game mechanics, more action RPG and shooter oriented instead of the BG style of play.
Now, with DA2 they're trying some other changes in the gameplay again.
Sure, not all their adventures into new territories are equally successful, as Jade Empire proved, but at least they have the guts and take risks, of trying new things, mechanics, IP franchises and settings with each new game they make, instead of making safe sequels of their former successes as other companies do.
I wish they'd make a BG3, or NWN3 with an even more advanced world creation toolset. But I can understand and respect that they're trying different paths all the time. Whether they'll be successful with it, we'll see.
Bioware doesn't have the license for dungeons and dragons. I am sure they would have made NWN: Origins if they had it. Unfortunately Atari has the license and they have Cryptic Studios making NWN online... /puke
Now it seems they have taken Dragon Age to an all new cartoonist level with their art direction. Sad really.
'cartoonist level'? Care to explain?
@ghettobooste: yes, I know they went for DA:O and ME because it gave them the freedom they were looking for in making their games. They made BG and NWN however, if needed they could've paid up the money for use of the IP. It would still have been a guaranteed financial smash hit.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Now it seems they have taken Dragon Age to an all new cartoonist level with their art direction. Sad really.
'cartoonist level'? Care to explain?
I am not sure what this means either. I am not liking DA2, but it doesn't graphically look cartoonist. Hell it doesn't look like they changed much at all in terms of graphics although some of the models changed some.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
BW took a chance at the old-school mechanic with DA:O and you know what? It bombed on the PC compared to the console, the sales on the console was light years ahead compared to the PC. Even though the PC was the superior version.
EA/BW is a business and the market spoke quite clearly that console is where you get more sales; so in DA2 they went down that route.
I can't fault them as it is just good business sense.
I enjoyed parts of the demo (the setting of the mountain was attrocious but the city looked cool) and the combat mechanic looks way more interesting than DA:O.
To the guy above, ME2 says hi! ME1 was released a month after BW was bought.
You can argue all you want that ME1 is 'better' but the public (in terms of sales) and critics all disagree with you.
Dragon Age bombed on PC isn't because Console had the bigger market, is because PC is being PC. I'm sure a lot of people here is well known to the fact of pirated games, lots and lots of copies of Dragon Age: Origins was pirated, not bought therefore it is much harder to predict the sales of PC than Consoles if piracy isn't an alternative.
Does it matter that it was 'piracy'?
DA:O sold more on the console than PC.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Companies like consoles because they are cheaper, the market is bigger, and the average joe probably won't copy their game.
No surprise yet another game dumbs down so it can be on consoles.. it's also easier getting kids to beg their parents to buy a new console for a few hundred bucks than it is to get them to spend thousands on a new gaming rig.
It's too much of a business now.. has nothing to do with 'how can we make this a great experience for the player?' instead now it's 'how can we get maximum profit?'
maybe it's time to retire from computer gaming and go back to the pen and paper rpgs lol
I used to complain about the way games are these days. Then someone told me that times have changed, that many of today's gamers have never even heard of the games I used to play.
It's inevitable, it's a trend. Games try to cater to a new generation of gamers now, as well as the older ones. Sometimes you get a compromise that you as an older gamer just don't like. You pretty much just gotta deal with it.
Before Baldur's Gate the RPG genre had been in a decline for some time, up to the point that a number of articles and critics stated premature things like that 'RPG was dead'. Then came Baldur's Gate, and the genre got a revival with all kinds of RPG's being released.
As usual, gaming genres dwindle away or change over the years. Some genres fade away into oblivion, and others find a revival whenever a new milestone game is released that manages to redefine and renew the genre.
I'd say that the RPG genre has diversified, mixed and crossbred with other genres over the years.
And for those who don't like action oriented RPG's like ME3 or DA2, there's also still a SKyrim or WItcher 2 to enjoy.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Well seems others are beginning to recognize , what a portion of the community already knew with DA1 and ME2,and now DA2, these so called Erhmmm RPGs are hurting the Genre by dumbing it down and removing all the good parts of an RPG piece by piece, one part of the article i disagre with is even calling these games Action/RPGs , they arent even worthy of that and need to be classified as Action/Story games...
I agree. DA1-2 and most games that BioWare have released are actually pathetic and over hyped. They are like playing an interactive movie instead of a great rpg. I put Drakensang above Dragon Age all day long, it plays more like BG and NWN than the crap BioWare have given us.
After playing the DA2 demo i can say that The Witcher 2 can't come quick enough or Skyrim.
BW took a chance at the old-school mechanic with DA:O and you know what? It bombed on the PC compared to the console, the sales on the console was light years ahead compared to the PC. Even though the PC was the superior version.
EA/BW is a business and the market spoke quite clearly that console is where you get more sales; so in DA2 they went down that route.
I can't fault them as it is just good business sense.
I enjoyed parts of the demo (the setting of the mountain was attrocious but the city looked cool) and the combat mechanic looks way more interesting than DA:O.
To the guy above, ME2 says hi! ME1 was released a month after BW was bought.
You can argue all you want that ME1 is 'better' but the public (in terms of sales) and critics all disagree with you.
Dragon Age bombed on PC isn't because Console had the bigger market, is because PC is being PC. I'm sure a lot of people here is well known to the fact of pirated games, lots and lots of copies of Dragon Age: Origins was pirated, not bought therefore it is much harder to predict the sales of PC than Consoles if piracy isn't an alternative.
FYI, console game piracy is at least as big as PC game piracy. Many, many business have been borned out of the modded consoles.
I am not sure if this invalidates your argument, but it sure doesn't suppport it. One thing that does support console sales, however, is that console games are bought by places like Hollywood video and Blockbuster and rented out. Can't do that with PC games, so that's one reason that would make console gaming a much larger market.
And for those who don't like action oriented RPG's like ME3 or DA2, there's also still a SKyrim or WItcher 2 to enjoy.
You do realise that the Elder Scrolls games and The Witcher games are MORE action focused than Dragon Age and Mass Effect, right? They operate on a system of "1 click = 1 weapon swing"....you do understand this right? They may as well be called The God of War Scrolls V: Kratos or Witcher May Cry since the combat is so action focused. Since its not the storytelling or world interactions being debated here, just the combat systems.
As for Dragon Age vs Dragon Age 2, I thought the combat was identical, dont see where these "Oh its all actiony now, you have to click to attack and all this" descriptions are coming from. But then they champion more action focused RPG's as being better......I...ugh....Im confused, my logic unit must be malfunctioning as I input their arguments in and get "derp" back.
Dragon Age 1 was pretty much a dumbed down version of an RPG. No surprises the second installment is what it is. You fu---ng chosed this direction by supporting and buying this imitation of a PC RPG game. We, the PC players are to blame that the console interface, console gameplay, console effects, console to PC buggy conversions, infantile console dialogues are now ruling the PC world. Sure the masses will probably love this rubbish, and the so called reviewers will praise it to the heavens - "trustworthy" score of 96% with a huge blinking DA 2 banner right next to it.
Dragon Age 1 was pretty much a dumbed down version of an RPG. No surprises the second installment is what it is. You fu---ng chosed this direction by supporting and buying this imitation of a PC RPG game. We, the PC players are to blame that the console interface, console gameplay, console effects, console to PC buggy conversions, infantile console dialogues are now ruling the PC world. Sure the masses will probably love this rubbish, and the so called reviewers will praise it to the heavens - "trustworthy" score of 96% with a huge blinking DA 2 banner right next to it.
Other than the story the actual combat mechanics of DA1 was really bad on the console.
The PC was much better but still I prefer DA2 combat mechanics.
Meh, different tastes for different folks.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
...It bombed on the PC compared to the console, the sales on the console was light years ahead compared to the PC. Even though the PC was the superior version.
EA/BW is a business and the market spoke quite clearly that console is where you get more sales; so in DA2 they went down that route.
I can't fault them as it is just good business sense.
...
Dragon Age bombed on PC isn't because Console had the bigger market, is because PC is being PC. I'm sure a lot of people here is well known to the fact of pirated games, lots and lots of copies of Dragon Age: Origins was pirated, not bought therefore it is much harder to predict the sales of PC than Consoles if piracy isn't an alternative.
FYI, console game piracy is at least as big as PC game piracy. Many, many business have been borned out of the modded consoles.
I am not sure if this invalidates your argument, but it sure doesn't suppport it. One thing that does support console sales, however, is that console games are bought by places like Hollywood video and Blockbuster and rented out. Can't do that with PC games, so that's one reason that would make console gaming a much larger market.
Im pretty sure piracy is much worse on pc than on consoles since you don't actually need to pay ANY money at all to other than a pc, whereas consoles you need a modded console, (can you even pirate games on ps3? i dunno, only heard of it on ps2....which DAO wasn't on) requiring you to pay money to mod your console, on pc, you just download the game and its done I think. Ease of access will most likely lead to a bigger market.
EDIT: don't pirate any games lol.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I think we should give Bioware games some respect for what they are today: Fantastic interactive stories with RPG elements. There's an audience and a demand for them. I don't see them as decline of anything, more like cross-genre. Those wanting classical RPGs will just have to look elsewhere.
I think what some people have missed is ME1 was pre EA era bioware, it was devolved by them and published by Microsoft. Me2 was already on the drawing board before EA got the company. So both of those titles really fall into a time before EA because EA wasn't there from the start of the title. With dragon age they were making a successor to NWN and BG, why? Because Atari holds all the game rights to D&D, and will not let other publishers touch it. This is why Atari gave NWN 3 over to cryptic.
Secondly Classic RPGs are not really rpgs in the truest since of pen and paper rpgs, they are more along the line of movies you play. An rpg is a role playing game, you assume a role, play that role, and decide everything for that role. This was biowares bread and butter, the walking and talking rpg where you named your guy or girl, picked the class, and followed through from there. DA:O is very much that type of game, where DA2 isn't. Streamlining it for the consol is one thing, they went ahead and decided to take away the feeling of the character is me, I am playing the role of this character with the frame narrative they set it up with.
Why do I harp on this, it is because the guys over at BioWare are focusing to much on the story, and less on the idea of playing it. It's easier to write a story for one person, no matter the class, then for a mixture of races from which the story can come. There are less options to have to program in. Less lines to write, which is perfect if the game starts off that way. I.E. KoToR or ME. But when a game starts off with six different choices, and has a whole lot of options in leveling as well as skills, then gets stripped down and made into your choice is x or y then one of three classes it isn't as nice. In some respects it would be like playing Baldur's Gate then in Baldur's Gate two you had to be a human no matter what.
It's fine to change writing style, narrative style, even what choices we have from one title like ME to the next title as they did the DA:O. Doing it within the same title on it's sequel would be like a writer who has written every book in a series as third person omniscient, suddenly changing the story to first person singular. It's a good way to make a whole bunch of readers mad at you, unless you have a damn good reason to do it.
The Bioware we all embraced no longer exists , the one we have now is just cheap EA bride ,and as soon as EA is done with them they will dismantle whats left like the many other Devs they have purchsed over the years , None of them have survived , why would anyone think Bioware will be differnet they are the next vicitm of EA , probably will completly be dismantled in 2-4 years max..
Is this some kind of wishful thinking, just because they make games that aren't in the genre you like, classic RPG?
The fact that all their last games sold magnanimous and that they have 3 big titles this year proves enough that they won't be gone within the next 4 years. Besides, at least they have the guts to try different things, in contrast to other big game companies who after their big first success keep making sequels within the same franchise: Halo, Call of Duty/Modern Warfare, Starcraft, Diablo, to name a few.
Bioware could have made easily a BG3 or NWN3 or KOTOR 3, and they would've sold gold.
Instead they made KOTOR after BG.
With NWN they went into making one of the best world creator tools around, which resulted into fantastic player made MORPG worlds.
Then they went onto a completely new track with Jade Empire, away from high fantasy and scifi into an original Asian themed fantasy setting.
After that, they again didn't make a sequel, but launched 2 new franchises, with intriguing worlds, and in the case of ME/ME2 with different game mechanics, more action RPG and shooter oriented instead of the BG style of play.
Now, with DA2 they're trying some other changes in the gameplay again.
Sure, not all their adventures into new territories are equally successful, as Jade Empire proved, but at least they have the guts and take risks, of trying new things, mechanics, IP franchises and settings with each new game they make, instead of making safe sequels of their former successes as other companies do.
I wish they'd make a BG3, or NWN3 with an even more advanced world creation toolset. But I can understand and respect that they're trying different paths all the time. Whether they'll be successful with it, we'll see.
Not wishful thinking at all, the only wisful thinking i may have , is that EA had never purchased BIoware and turned them into just another Craptastic Console Pumping Game Pimp,the rest is only the truth EA has been devouring dev teams since the 80s none have survived there influence , so i dont expext BW to , its only the truth up to you if ya wanna subscribe to it.
DA2 the combat was changed, the pc version is one click and the first is on against mob X, the consol version is a button masher you have to hit the button for every swing.
I also am waiting to see how, or if this shift will effect the green ronin table top version of dragon age, if it doesn't then I think I'll be spending my money on the pen and paper version of DA. Because there, on the page before me, my warden is still plugin along and EA can't do jack about it.
I think what some people have missed is ME1 was pre EA era bioware, it was devolved by them and published by Microsoft. Me2 was already on the drawing board before EA got the company. So both of those titles really fall into a time before EA because EA wasn't there from the start of the title. With dragon age they were making a successor to NWN and BG, why? Because Atari holds all the game rights to D&D, and will not let other publishers touch it. This is why Atari gave NWN 3 over to cryptic.
Secondly Classic RPGs are not really rpgs in the truest since of pen and paper rpgs, they are more along the line of movies you play. An rpg is a role playing game, you assume a role, play that role, and decide everything for that role. This was biowares bread and butter, the walking and talking rpg where you named your guy or girl, picked the class, and followed through from there. DA:O is very much that type of game, where DA2 isn't. Streamlining it for the consol is one thing, they went ahead and decided to take away the feeling of the character is me, I am playing the role of this character with the frame narrative they set it up with.
Why do I harp on this, it is because the guys over at BioWare are focusing to much on the story, and less on the idea of playing it. It's easier to write a story for one person, no matter the class, then for a mixture of races from which the story can come. There are less options to have to program in. Less lines to write, which is perfect if the game starts off that way. I.E. KoToR or ME. But when a game starts off with six different choices, and has a whole lot of options in leveling as well as skills, then gets stripped down and made into your choice is x or y then one of three classes it isn't as nice. In some respects it would be like playing Baldur's Gate then in Baldur's Gate two you had to be a human no matter what.
It's fine to change writing style, narrative style, even what choices we have from one title like ME to the next title as they did the DA:O. Doing it within the same title on it's sequel would be like a writer who has written every book in a series as third person omniscient, suddenly changing the story to first person singular. It's a good way to make a whole bunch of readers mad at you, unless you have a damn good reason to do it.
Actually they wanted to move away from D&D based games because they felt it wasn't good for a video game conversion and they wanted to try to make their own system. They had the license for D&D but chose to release it to Atari.
I agree with you for the most part here. Even in DA:O the choices were limited, but it still had that classic RPG feel and sense of immersion. I believe it truly was the spiritual successor to the Baldurs Gate series. After playing the DA2 demo, I don't feel that it has that.
I totally agree with you here. It's not that DA2 will necessarily be a bad game, it's just that it's such a departure from the original. The playstyle is so different and the sense of immersion just isn't there. It's not the classic RPG that DA:O was, it's more in line of what we see in Diablo 3. Despite the story it's devolved into a simple action RPG. If that's what we wanted, we have Blizzard for that.
Final Fantasy Tactics but no now they all are made for PSP and DS.
Same here. I just recently discovered Dragon Quest which has made this old Wizardry fan a happy camper.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
RPG- Role playing game, you are taking on a role of a character with an established back story and you are playing through a storyline as if you are acting in a play.
So yes, DA2 does fit RPG EXACTLY to a T.
Please stop trying to redefine things.
Edit: After reading the article I begin to wonder how long the reviewer has played RPGs, back when the genre was first getting its major titled like Final Fantasy 7 and Chrono Trigger you didn't get to create your own character or get to make many decisions on how the storyline played out.
Sounds like someone's crying wolf while screaming about the sky falling. Goodness...
I totally agree with you here. It's not that DA2 will necessarily be a bad game, it's just that it's such a departure from the original. The playstyle is so different and the sense of immersion just isn't there. It's not the classic RPG that DA:O was, it's more in line of what we see in Diablo 3. Despite the story it's devolved into a simple action RPG. If that's what we wanted, we have Blizzard for that.
I wouldn't go that far regarding your last statement.
The Diablo games were fun but I never could get through them as they were just waves of mobs to kill one after another.
I like the whole Storty concept of DA:O 2 and don't mind the more action type of combat.
The again I played DA:O on easy and seldom used the pause button. Reason being is that combat should be fun and exciting from my vantage point, not a series of pauses and breaks only to then do it all again for more pauses and breaks.
Given an example that the Bioware people had shown (not the demo) I can still see where stopping and "setting up your shots" can be very viable.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I totally agree with you here. It's not that DA2 will necessarily be a bad game, it's just that it's such a departure from the original. The playstyle is so different and the sense of immersion just isn't there. It's not the classic RPG that DA:O was, it's more in line of what we see in Diablo 3. Despite the story it's devolved into a simple action RPG. If that's what we wanted, we have Blizzard for that.
I wouldn't go that far regarding your last statement.
The Diablo games were fun but I never could get through them as they were just waves of mobs to kill one after another.
I like the whole Storty concept of DA:O 2 and don't mind the more action type of combat.
The again I played DA:O on easy and seldom used the pause button. Reason being is that combat should be fun and exciting from my vantage point, not a series of pauses and breaks only to then do it all again for more pauses and breaks.
Given an example that the Bioware people had shown (not the demo) I can still see where stopping and "setting up your shots" can be very viable.
Perhaps I can't speak for others, tho I think there are many who feel as I do, but for myself I stand by my statement.
The problem is you are all arguing semantics, fact of the mater is that DA2 IS an RPG, and it IS NOT a decline in the genre or anything new either.
If its not an RPG then neither is ANY game made by Square, Enix, or any other company that makes games resembling them, you seriously cannot argue that RPG's require meaningful desision making because almost no RPG does. You also cannot argue that RPG's require a character maker, because that too would exempt several that won RPG of the year titles.
I'm sorry if you guys think you can redefine what the term RPG means but you can't.
The problem is you are all arguing semantics, fact of the mater is that DA2 IS an RPG, and it IS NOT a decline in the genre or anything new either.
If its not an RPG then neither is ANY game made by Square, Enix, or any other company that makes games resembling them, you seriously cannot argue that RPG's require meaningful desision making because almost no RPG does. You also cannot argue that RPG's require a character maker, because that too would exempt several that won RPG of the year titles.
I'm sorry if you guys think you can redefine what the term RPG means but you can't.
I don't know who you're referring to, but I've never said it wasn't an RPG, I'm simply saying it isn't a classic RPG in the style of it's predecessor. Instead it's an action RPG and in my own opinion, that is indeed a decline...not in the genre since we've always had action RPGs, but in the DA series and perhaps in Bioware itself. Tho I guess we'll have to wait and see on that last bit.
The problem is you are all arguing semantics, fact of the mater is that DA2 IS an RPG, and it IS NOT a decline in the genre or anything new either.
If its not an RPG then neither is ANY game made by Square, Enix, or any other company that makes games resembling them, you seriously cannot argue that RPG's require meaningful desision making because almost no RPG does. You also cannot argue that RPG's require a character maker, because that too would exempt several that won RPG of the year titles.
I'm sorry if you guys think you can redefine what the term RPG means but you can't.
I don't know who you're referring to, but I've never said it wasn't an RPG, I'm simply saying it isn't a classic RPG in the style of it's predecessor. Instead it's an action RPG and in my own opinion, that is indeed a decline...not in the genre since we've always had action RPGs, but in the DA series and perhaps in Bioware itself. Tho I guess we'll have to wait and see on that last bit.
Saying its a decline implys that its following some sort of pattern, Action RPG's are not a new thing, and infact the style they represent has been around for a long time. The reason I disagree is because I see no trend, I don't see Action RPG's starting to take over the genre and traditional RPG's being pushed aside, game makers are making both types of games.
Comments
Bioware doesn't have the license for dungeons and dragons. I am sure they would have made NWN: Origins if they had it. Unfortunately Atari has the license and they have Cryptic Studios making NWN online... /puke
'cartoonist level'? Care to explain?
@ghettobooste: yes, I know they went for DA:O and ME because it gave them the freedom they were looking for in making their games. They made BG and NWN however, if needed they could've paid up the money for use of the IP. It would still have been a guaranteed financial smash hit.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I am not sure what this means either. I am not liking DA2, but it doesn't graphically look cartoonist. Hell it doesn't look like they changed much at all in terms of graphics although some of the models changed some.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Does it matter that it was 'piracy'?
DA:O sold more on the console than PC.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Companies like consoles because they are cheaper, the market is bigger, and the average joe probably won't copy their game.
No surprise yet another game dumbs down so it can be on consoles.. it's also easier getting kids to beg their parents to buy a new console for a few hundred bucks than it is to get them to spend thousands on a new gaming rig.
It's too much of a business now.. has nothing to do with 'how can we make this a great experience for the player?' instead now it's 'how can we get maximum profit?'
maybe it's time to retire from computer gaming and go back to the pen and paper rpgs lol
I used to complain about the way games are these days. Then someone told me that times have changed, that many of today's gamers have never even heard of the games I used to play.
It's inevitable, it's a trend. Games try to cater to a new generation of gamers now, as well as the older ones. Sometimes you get a compromise that you as an older gamer just don't like. You pretty much just gotta deal with it.
Imo the classic RPG declined long before DA2.
O_o o_O
I think it's cycles, hills and valleys.
Before Baldur's Gate the RPG genre had been in a decline for some time, up to the point that a number of articles and critics stated premature things like that 'RPG was dead'. Then came Baldur's Gate, and the genre got a revival with all kinds of RPG's being released.
As usual, gaming genres dwindle away or change over the years. Some genres fade away into oblivion, and others find a revival whenever a new milestone game is released that manages to redefine and renew the genre.
I'd say that the RPG genre has diversified, mixed and crossbred with other genres over the years.
And for those who don't like action oriented RPG's like ME3 or DA2, there's also still a SKyrim or WItcher 2 to enjoy.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I agree. DA1-2 and most games that BioWare have released are actually pathetic and over hyped. They are like playing an interactivemovie instead of a great rpg. I put Drakensang above Dragon Age all day long, it plays more like BG and NWN than the crap BioWare have given us.
After playing the DA2 demo i can say that The Witcher 2 can't come quick enough or Skyrim.
FYI, console game piracy is at least as big as PC game piracy. Many, many business have been borned out of the modded consoles.
I am not sure if this invalidates your argument, but it sure doesn't suppport it. One thing that does support console sales, however, is that console games are bought by places like Hollywood video and Blockbuster and rented out. Can't do that with PC games, so that's one reason that would make console gaming a much larger market.
You do realise that the Elder Scrolls games and The Witcher games are MORE action focused than Dragon Age and Mass Effect, right? They operate on a system of "1 click = 1 weapon swing"....you do understand this right? They may as well be called The God of War Scrolls V: Kratos or Witcher May Cry since the combat is so action focused. Since its not the storytelling or world interactions being debated here, just the combat systems.
As for Dragon Age vs Dragon Age 2, I thought the combat was identical, dont see where these "Oh its all actiony now, you have to click to attack and all this" descriptions are coming from. But then they champion more action focused RPG's as being better......I...ugh....Im confused, my logic unit must be malfunctioning as I input their arguments in and get "derp" back.
Dragon Age 1 was pretty much a dumbed down version of an RPG. No surprises the second installment is what it is. You fu---ng chosed this direction by supporting and buying this imitation of a PC RPG game. We, the PC players are to blame that the console interface, console gameplay, console effects, console to PC buggy conversions, infantile console dialogues are now ruling the PC world. Sure the masses will probably love this rubbish, and the so called reviewers will praise it to the heavens - "trustworthy" score of 96% with a huge blinking DA 2 banner right next to it.
REALITY CHECK
Other than the story the actual combat mechanics of DA1 was really bad on the console.
The PC was much better but still I prefer DA2 combat mechanics.
Meh, different tastes for different folks.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Im pretty sure piracy is much worse on pc than on consoles since you don't actually need to pay ANY money at all to other than a pc, whereas consoles you need a modded console, (can you even pirate games on ps3? i dunno, only heard of it on ps2....which DAO wasn't on) requiring you to pay money to mod your console, on pc, you just download the game and its done I think. Ease of access will most likely lead to a bigger market.
EDIT: don't pirate any games lol.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I think we should give Bioware games some respect for what they are today: Fantastic interactive stories with RPG elements. There's an audience and a demand for them. I don't see them as decline of anything, more like cross-genre. Those wanting classical RPGs will just have to look elsewhere.
I think what some people have missed is ME1 was pre EA era bioware, it was devolved by them and published by Microsoft. Me2 was already on the drawing board before EA got the company. So both of those titles really fall into a time before EA because EA wasn't there from the start of the title. With dragon age they were making a successor to NWN and BG, why? Because Atari holds all the game rights to D&D, and will not let other publishers touch it. This is why Atari gave NWN 3 over to cryptic.
Secondly Classic RPGs are not really rpgs in the truest since of pen and paper rpgs, they are more along the line of movies you play. An rpg is a role playing game, you assume a role, play that role, and decide everything for that role. This was biowares bread and butter, the walking and talking rpg where you named your guy or girl, picked the class, and followed through from there. DA:O is very much that type of game, where DA2 isn't. Streamlining it for the consol is one thing, they went ahead and decided to take away the feeling of the character is me, I am playing the role of this character with the frame narrative they set it up with.
Why do I harp on this, it is because the guys over at BioWare are focusing to much on the story, and less on the idea of playing it. It's easier to write a story for one person, no matter the class, then for a mixture of races from which the story can come. There are less options to have to program in. Less lines to write, which is perfect if the game starts off that way. I.E. KoToR or ME. But when a game starts off with six different choices, and has a whole lot of options in leveling as well as skills, then gets stripped down and made into your choice is x or y then one of three classes it isn't as nice. In some respects it would be like playing Baldur's Gate then in Baldur's Gate two you had to be a human no matter what.
It's fine to change writing style, narrative style, even what choices we have from one title like ME to the next title as they did the DA:O. Doing it within the same title on it's sequel would be like a writer who has written every book in a series as third person omniscient, suddenly changing the story to first person singular. It's a good way to make a whole bunch of readers mad at you, unless you have a damn good reason to do it.
Not wishful thinking at all, the only wisful thinking i may have , is that EA had never purchased BIoware and turned them into just another Craptastic Console Pumping Game Pimp,the rest is only the truth EA has been devouring dev teams since the 80s none have survived there influence , so i dont expext BW to , its only the truth up to you if ya wanna subscribe to it.
DA2 the combat was changed, the pc version is one click and the first is on against mob X, the consol version is a button masher you have to hit the button for every swing.
I also am waiting to see how, or if this shift will effect the green ronin table top version of dragon age, if it doesn't then I think I'll be spending my money on the pen and paper version of DA. Because there, on the page before me, my warden is still plugin along and EA can't do jack about it.
Actually they wanted to move away from D&D based games because they felt it wasn't good for a video game conversion and they wanted to try to make their own system. They had the license for D&D but chose to release it to Atari.
I agree with you for the most part here. Even in DA:O the choices were limited, but it still had that classic RPG feel and sense of immersion. I believe it truly was the spiritual successor to the Baldurs Gate series. After playing the DA2 demo, I don't feel that it has that.
I totally agree with you here. It's not that DA2 will necessarily be a bad game, it's just that it's such a departure from the original. The playstyle is so different and the sense of immersion just isn't there. It's not the classic RPG that DA:O was, it's more in line of what we see in Diablo 3. Despite the story it's devolved into a simple action RPG. If that's what we wanted, we have Blizzard for that.
Same here. I just recently discovered Dragon Quest which has made this old Wizardry fan a happy camper.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
RPG- Role playing game, you are taking on a role of a character with an established back story and you are playing through a storyline as if you are acting in a play.
So yes, DA2 does fit RPG EXACTLY to a T.
Please stop trying to redefine things.
Edit: After reading the article I begin to wonder how long the reviewer has played RPGs, back when the genre was first getting its major titled like Final Fantasy 7 and Chrono Trigger you didn't get to create your own character or get to make many decisions on how the storyline played out.
Sounds like someone's crying wolf while screaming about the sky falling. Goodness...
I wouldn't go that far regarding your last statement.
The Diablo games were fun but I never could get through them as they were just waves of mobs to kill one after another.
I like the whole Storty concept of DA:O 2 and don't mind the more action type of combat.
The again I played DA:O on easy and seldom used the pause button. Reason being is that combat should be fun and exciting from my vantage point, not a series of pauses and breaks only to then do it all again for more pauses and breaks.
Given an example that the Bioware people had shown (not the demo) I can still see where stopping and "setting up your shots" can be very viable.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Perhaps I can't speak for others, tho I think there are many who feel as I do, but for myself I stand by my statement.
The problem is you are all arguing semantics, fact of the mater is that DA2 IS an RPG, and it IS NOT a decline in the genre or anything new either.
If its not an RPG then neither is ANY game made by Square, Enix, or any other company that makes games resembling them, you seriously cannot argue that RPG's require meaningful desision making because almost no RPG does. You also cannot argue that RPG's require a character maker, because that too would exempt several that won RPG of the year titles.
I'm sorry if you guys think you can redefine what the term RPG means but you can't.
I don't know who you're referring to, but I've never said it wasn't an RPG, I'm simply saying it isn't a classic RPG in the style of it's predecessor. Instead it's an action RPG and in my own opinion, that is indeed a decline...not in the genre since we've always had action RPGs, but in the DA series and perhaps in Bioware itself. Tho I guess we'll have to wait and see on that last bit.
Saying its a decline implys that its following some sort of pattern, Action RPG's are not a new thing, and infact the style they represent has been around for a long time. The reason I disagree is because I see no trend, I don't see Action RPG's starting to take over the genre and traditional RPG's being pushed aside, game makers are making both types of games.