I do pity you guys and hope for the best. We got some of the WoW crowd over here and they make you want to rip your hair out. Last I heard GW2 was the WoW replacement a lot of them were looking at.
No point looking over your shoulder at what other ppl do is life's lesson imo. Enjoy the game on your terms, sure there are always issues with community, but generally it's easy enough to avoid and as I don't play WoW and never have, I don't comment on that game!
ArenaNet's design philosophy of Social experience should greatly help in PvE.
It may or may not push other companies to enhance their creativity. But it will for certain set a new bar of quality for quest. Voiceover will slowly phase out text box lore delivery as well.
While dynamic events are a good step forward for the genre, that is not the only area Arenanet is trying to challenge conceptually.
This game will likely change the face of MMORPGs forever.
Doubt it. It'll undoubtebly bring new approaches and ideas, but I reckon they'll be self-contained to GW2, very much like how it happened with the original game.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
It may or may not push other companies to enhance their creativity. But it will for certain set a new bar of quality for quest. Voiceover will slowly phase out text box lore delivery as well.
While dynamic events are a good step forward for the genre, that is not the only area Arenanet is trying to challenge conceptually.
Color me negative but I still think DYNAMIC EVENTS have everything to prove to players and that they work and that they are varied and that they are repeatable.
It's my biggest scepticism with the game atm and has been for a while. The ambition meets the danger there. I doubt anyone can really put the case to bed until we see A LOT MORE of them in action and played through.
Great on paper - Yes - in practise........ there's no revolution/evolution so far.
One of the biggest complaints in Rift (and for some people the best thing going for it) is that the DEs "interrupt" their quest grind. Ironic I know but there you go.
This CANNOT be the case in GW2 because the quest grind IS the dynamic events.
It will be very interesting to see how players react. For some players "quietly" doing their quests and levelling super fast or just minding their own business is important to them and this wont be able to happen in GW2. For the rest of us, we cannot wait to NOT quietly do bland quests.
Rift has given me appetite for dynamic events, bring it on Anet!
I have watched the first impression vids where a guy starts off in the starting zone and wow...what is all the hype around Rift?? Ok I admit, I did not watch the Rifts themselves come into play but from what I hear, they spew out random mobs to attack villages and all and when the mobs are defeated, you have the boss to look forward to. Yes, yes, but the villages will die if you don't do anything about that. However, is that the only innovation you have in Rift? I think so.
I have played tons of f2p mmos to the point where if I see the usual point-and-click combat and a generic quest in the first 5 minutes of gameplay, I simply quit. Which basically means that nothing out there holds my attention for more than 5 minutes. The impression I got from the first 10 or so min of watching the video is just simply aweful. Heh, and the guy was making tons of comparisons to how similar the mechanics and the UI are to WoW. That is already a bad sign in my book. I got bored out of my brains watching the video at about 15min mark (and only really watched it up to that point just coz the reviewer's comments were entertaining even though others think otherwise).
So let's see...
Generic quests with walls of text that no-one really cares to read? Check. We have seen these in thousands of f2p and even p2p mmo games.
Point-and-click combat? Check. We have seen these in thousands of f2p and even p2p mmo games.
Rifts? Well...that is the only real innovation, but then again, when compared to GW2 dynamic event system, it doesn't come close. Period.
"But you haven't even played or even saw the Rifts in action" You might say...well like i mentioned before, once I see generic combat and quest system, I just can't continue. It bores me and sickens me to death. It is the sum of all the parts that counts for me.
Now we go look at Guild Wars.
Firstly we have action-orientated combat where positioning and dodging really matter. So much so that there is ONLY awsd keys for movement. You can dodge out of the way of individual arrows and you can use trees to block any projectiles from hitting you are just some of the common examples. If you see it in action, combat is far more interesting. Skills and your role depends on the weapon you carry and since all the professions can carry a number of different types of weapons, there are tons of skills you can play with and fulfil any role on the fly. This means no holy trinity which is pretty unique in the idea itself. Oh, and no point-and-click to heal an ally. Oh, and everyone independent of their class/race can revive others.
Then we have dynamic events that chain off into other events depending on the outcomes. Dynamic events initiate depending on the climate, the time of day, the number of people in the area, randomness or depends on whether a person triggers one or not. In addition, the events can mix with other events making the game world truly feel alive and always be different everytime you play. GW2 has more than a thousand of these and are replacement for all those generic quests you see in other games. They also provide ton of replayability as these events never deplete upon completion like generic quests do and the outcomes and mixing with other events make things so much more interesting and chaotic I'd imagine.
Then we have personal story that permanently changes based on your decisions in your story with cinematics and your home instance reflecting those changes. You also have a journal that updates and acts like a novel for your hero as you go further and further into your own story. No one will have EXACTLY same personal story.
Then u have WvWvW. Since I don't really care about pvp that much, I havent really been following on this aspect of the game. All I know is that it is similar to the system used in Age of Camelot (renowned for having one of the best pvp systems ever) but also uses its own ideas.
Having read what I wrote, it really depends whether you are lookin for true innovation or just mmo with traditional mechanisms. Gw 2 will satisfy the former. That is pretty much guranteed. Rift satisfies the latter by the look of things.
As for whether GW2 will change the face of mmos forever, well, call my naive but from what I have seen so far, I believe it will. If not then at the very least, I am sure we will see other big mmo companies borrowing mechanics used in GW2.
It may or may not push other companies to enhance their creativity. But it will for certain set a new bar of quality for quest. Voiceover will slowly phase out text box lore delivery as well.
While dynamic events are a good step forward for the genre, that is not the only area Arenanet is trying to challenge conceptually.
Color me negative but I still think DYNAMIC EVENTS have everything to prove to players and that they work and that they are varied and that they are repeatable.
It's my biggest scepticism with the game atm and has been for a while. The ambition meets the danger there. I doubt anyone can really put the case to bed until we see A LOT MORE of them in action and played through.
Great on paper - Yes - in practise........ there's no revolution/evolution so far.
Well the game isn't out yet so yeah, the evolution/revolution has yet to come.
Originally posted by ironfungus This game will likely change the face of MMORPGs forever.
I hope so. I really, really do. I want that bad.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
This is to Riftfan. The only reason I won't try your game is for this line in the artical "We watched an early run through of the Norn starting zone." I'm an altoholic, and from what I've been told all your rift guys start in the same area, and do the same quests. That is why I only played Aion for a month. I would give the game a chance if it wasn't for that one HUGE drawback.
Color me negative but I still think DYNAMIC EVENTS have everything to prove to players and that they work and that they are varied and that they are repeatable.
It's my biggest scepticism with the game atm and has been for a while. The ambition meets the danger there. I doubt anyone can really put the case to bed until we see A LOT MORE of them in action and played through.
Great on paper - Yes - in practise........ there's no revolution/evolution so far.
This kind of dynamic events that replaces most of the quests are an untried idea and scepticism is just healthy.
Rifts did a little bit with them as well as WAR but WARs are not scaling and both of those games have just a few repetetive events. Even EQ2 have added 2 so called dynamic events in the last expansion. Can't say they were that good, just repetetive but doing 2 daily quests isn't more fun.
GW2 have around 1500 dynamic events. We don't know if that is enough, or maybe even too many. We don't know if they will be fun to play for a year or more either.
But it is actually the first system that tries seriously to replace the regular quests and that makes it interesting. I do have spent a lot of time running with a full quest log to grind of a few easy so I can get more into it.
And maybe will seeing stuff actually happen in front of your eyes no matter if you take a quest or not actually make the world feel more alive.
The idea is one of the most interesting added things for MMOs in a long time. But the question is still if it works or not. But I am sure looking forward to finding that out myself.
This is to Riftfan. The only reason I won't try your game is for this line in the artical "We watched an early run through of the Norn starting zone." I'm an altoholic, and from what I've been told all your rift guys start in the same area, and do the same quests. That is why I only played Aion for a month. I would give the game a chance if it wasn't for that one HUGE drawback.
Rift actually have 2 starting zones... I dunno if that helps or not.
GW2 will have 5 so it probably will fit a altaholic better.
Originally posted by Strap One of the biggest complaints in Rift (and for some people the best thing going for it) is that the DEs "interrupt" their quest grind. Ironic I know but there you go.
This CANNOT be the case in GW2 because the quest grind IS the dynamic events.
It will be very interesting to see how players react. For some players "quietly" doing their quests and levelling super fast or just minding their own business is important to them and this wont be able to happen in GW2. For the rest of us, we cannot wait to NOT quietly do bland quests.
Rift has given me appetite for dynamic events, bring it on Anet!
This is because the dynamic content in Rift is extremely boring so a lot of players just avoid it when they can and when you are solo and an invasion gets in the way you are kind of just stuck. The mob density is also way too high in the game so avoiding invasions is tedious at best.
This is to Riftfan. The only reason I won't try your game is for this line in the artical "We watched an early run through of the Norn starting zone." I'm an altoholic, and from what I've been told all your rift guys start in the same area, and do the same quests. That is why I only played Aion for a month. I would give the game a chance if it wasn't for that one HUGE drawback.
Rift actually have 2 starting zones... I dunno if that helps or not.
GW2 will have 5 so it probably will fit a altaholic better.
Plus, you know, a personal storyline that changes depending on the ~5 questions (with 3-4 options each) you answer at character creation. An altaholics / RP-ers dream, that.
This is to Riftfan. The only reason I won't try your game is for this line in the artical "We watched an early run through of the Norn starting zone." I'm an altoholic, and from what I've been told all your rift guys start in the same area, and do the same quests. That is why I only played Aion for a month. I would give the game a chance if it wasn't for that one HUGE drawback.
Rift actually have 2 starting zones... I dunno if that helps or not.
GW2 will have 5 so it probably will fit a altaholic better.
Plus, you know, a personal storyline that changes depending on the ~5 questions (with 3-4 options each) you answer at character creation. An altaholics / RP-ers dream, that.
Actually the story also changes while you do it. It's not entirely dependent on the biography questions (I also remember hearing that there were around 10 questions).
Someone has already mentioned that a little skepticism is healthy and even though the information and videos you can find on GW2 looks very promising I too will remain very skeptical while watching the developement of this game.
It just looks and sounds too good to be true. DAOC was my first MMO so the WvW aspect of this game is what caught my attention but all the other parts of the game sound great as well.
Time will tell and I will be hoping they can pull it off.
That is where I am worried about the game. I understand the drive to get rid of gather x or y quest, but that leveling system has worked for a good 20 years for a reason. It might be dangerous to toy around with it.
It is an interesting concept and if it catches on it would be great.
It has worked for 20 years because it is EASY to develop and EASY to accomplish in game. DDO did away with such questing and there was nothing dangerous about that. Lots of OLD stuff worked and has been replaced through out history.
One of the biggest complaints in Rift (and for some people the best thing going for it) is that the DEs "interrupt" their quest grind. Ironic I know but there you go.
This CANNOT be the case in GW2 because the quest grind IS the dynamic events.
It will be very interesting to see how players react. For some players "quietly" doing their quests and levelling super fast or just minding their own business is important to them and this wont be able to happen in GW2. For the rest of us, we cannot wait to NOT quietly do bland quests.
Rift has given me appetite for dynamic events, bring it on Anet!
This is because the dynamic content in Rift is extremely boring so a lot of players just avoid it when they can and when you are solo and an invasion gets in the way you are kind of just stuck. The mob density is also way too high in the game so avoiding invasions is tedious at best.
Agreed. After my 2 first hours in the beta they already started to get boring because they were basically the same thing over and over. It looks a bit different (I do like the looks of the water rifts) and sometimes they spawn a boss but it is still doing exactly the same things over and over.
It would be like playing a game with only one type of quests: the kill 10 rats. You are told to tell 10 of 20 or so different creatures each time but it sure would get boring fast anyways.
I don't know if GW2s dynamic events will be fun to play in the long run or not, it will take at least a months play to know that. But I do know that trying something different is the right thing to do. If people hadn't tried different things we still would play on a C-64 if we had computers at all. But we probably never would have left the stone age with thinking like that.
Quests work, not denying that. But a Sopwith Camel also works, still no airforce use them today. Trying new things will eventually make the genre a lot better, even if I am sure not all of them will work. There will most likely be features to GW2 at launch that will be changed in the future, MMOs are alive things and gets improved or changed with time.
So basically for Dynamic Events to be successful depends on this criteria..... and how it works for players
1. Challenge
2. Variety
3. Repeat
(4. Team-work) (5. Story?)
The problem is a large one to solve successfully given players rapacious reactions to PvE in most mmos. <.<
I did a diagram sketch of a large DE attributed to a description by Colin Johanson of an event that interested me and it certainly looks very large with plenty of (2) branches - so these do exist in an elaborate form but to what degree are they rare or put another way what is the average DE going to be in terms of stages, time, types of mob etc? How is the standard mostly (5) triggered and what's the proportion that are triggered differently?
Most importantly is how much (8) combination of the the above can they achieve to produce DEs that feel unique or rare or different: Basically fresh compared to stale quests... or how much like the older quests do they actually feel like... just spread across the map a bit more with a more user-friendly interface??!
We've also had mention of how (6) persistent some will be through quotes. Lastly will they motivate players or will players bulldoze their way through it all too easily?
They appear to solve some of war's PQ problems but is that enough?
Comments
No point looking over your shoulder at what other ppl do is life's lesson imo. Enjoy the game on your terms, sure there are always issues with community, but generally it's easy enough to avoid and as I don't play WoW and never have, I don't comment on that game!
ArenaNet's design philosophy of Social experience should greatly help in PvE.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
And hopefully push other dev's to enhance their creativity instead of, merely pushing out games. Seriously can't wait for release!
It may or may not push other companies to enhance their creativity. But it will for certain set a new bar of quality for quest. Voiceover will slowly phase out text box lore delivery as well.
While dynamic events are a good step forward for the genre, that is not the only area Arenanet is trying to challenge conceptually.
Doubt it. It'll undoubtebly bring new approaches and ideas, but I reckon they'll be self-contained to GW2, very much like how it happened with the original game.
Color me negative but I still think DYNAMIC EVENTS have everything to prove to players and that they work and that they are varied and that they are repeatable.
It's my biggest scepticism with the game atm and has been for a while. The ambition meets the danger there. I doubt anyone can really put the case to bed until we see A LOT MORE of them in action and played through.
Great on paper - Yes - in practise........ there's no revolution/evolution so far.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
One of the biggest complaints in Rift (and for some people the best thing going for it) is that the DEs "interrupt" their quest grind. Ironic I know but there you go.
This CANNOT be the case in GW2 because the quest grind IS the dynamic events.
It will be very interesting to see how players react. For some players "quietly" doing their quests and levelling super fast or just minding their own business is important to them and this wont be able to happen in GW2. For the rest of us, we cannot wait to NOT quietly do bland quests.
Rift has given me appetite for dynamic events, bring it on Anet!
I have watched the first impression vids where a guy starts off in the starting zone and wow...what is all the hype around Rift?? Ok I admit, I did not watch the Rifts themselves come into play but from what I hear, they spew out random mobs to attack villages and all and when the mobs are defeated, you have the boss to look forward to. Yes, yes, but the villages will die if you don't do anything about that. However, is that the only innovation you have in Rift? I think so.
I have played tons of f2p mmos to the point where if I see the usual point-and-click combat and a generic quest in the first 5 minutes of gameplay, I simply quit. Which basically means that nothing out there holds my attention for more than 5 minutes. The impression I got from the first 10 or so min of watching the video is just simply aweful. Heh, and the guy was making tons of comparisons to how similar the mechanics and the UI are to WoW. That is already a bad sign in my book. I got bored out of my brains watching the video at about 15min mark (and only really watched it up to that point just coz the reviewer's comments were entertaining even though others think otherwise).
So let's see...
Generic quests with walls of text that no-one really cares to read? Check. We have seen these in thousands of f2p and even p2p mmo games.
Point-and-click combat? Check. We have seen these in thousands of f2p and even p2p mmo games.
Rifts? Well...that is the only real innovation, but then again, when compared to GW2 dynamic event system, it doesn't come close. Period.
"But you haven't even played or even saw the Rifts in action" You might say...well like i mentioned before, once I see generic combat and quest system, I just can't continue. It bores me and sickens me to death. It is the sum of all the parts that counts for me.
Now we go look at Guild Wars.
Firstly we have action-orientated combat where positioning and dodging really matter. So much so that there is ONLY awsd keys for movement. You can dodge out of the way of individual arrows and you can use trees to block any projectiles from hitting you are just some of the common examples. If you see it in action, combat is far more interesting. Skills and your role depends on the weapon you carry and since all the professions can carry a number of different types of weapons, there are tons of skills you can play with and fulfil any role on the fly. This means no holy trinity which is pretty unique in the idea itself. Oh, and no point-and-click to heal an ally. Oh, and everyone independent of their class/race can revive others.
Then we have dynamic events that chain off into other events depending on the outcomes. Dynamic events initiate depending on the climate, the time of day, the number of people in the area, randomness or depends on whether a person triggers one or not. In addition, the events can mix with other events making the game world truly feel alive and always be different everytime you play. GW2 has more than a thousand of these and are replacement for all those generic quests you see in other games. They also provide ton of replayability as these events never deplete upon completion like generic quests do and the outcomes and mixing with other events make things so much more interesting and chaotic I'd imagine.
Then we have personal story that permanently changes based on your decisions in your story with cinematics and your home instance reflecting those changes. You also have a journal that updates and acts like a novel for your hero as you go further and further into your own story. No one will have EXACTLY same personal story.
Then u have WvWvW. Since I don't really care about pvp that much, I havent really been following on this aspect of the game. All I know is that it is similar to the system used in Age of Camelot (renowned for having one of the best pvp systems ever) but also uses its own ideas.
Having read what I wrote, it really depends whether you are lookin for true innovation or just mmo with traditional mechanisms. Gw 2 will satisfy the former. That is pretty much guranteed. Rift satisfies the latter by the look of things.
As for whether GW2 will change the face of mmos forever, well, call my naive but from what I have seen so far, I believe it will. If not then at the very least, I am sure we will see other big mmo companies borrowing mechanics used in GW2.
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.
Well the game isn't out yet so yeah, the evolution/revolution has yet to come.
a theif with pistols, uhhh arenanet just stole my ideal class and implemented it in-game. i know what im rolling when launch comes around.
yay new photos to fap to
I hope so. I really, really do. I want that bad.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
This is to Riftfan. The only reason I won't try your game is for this line in the artical "We watched an early run through of the Norn starting zone." I'm an altoholic, and from what I've been told all your rift guys start in the same area, and do the same quests. That is why I only played Aion for a month. I would give the game a chance if it wasn't for that one HUGE drawback.
This kind of dynamic events that replaces most of the quests are an untried idea and scepticism is just healthy.
Rifts did a little bit with them as well as WAR but WARs are not scaling and both of those games have just a few repetetive events. Even EQ2 have added 2 so called dynamic events in the last expansion. Can't say they were that good, just repetetive but doing 2 daily quests isn't more fun.
GW2 have around 1500 dynamic events. We don't know if that is enough, or maybe even too many. We don't know if they will be fun to play for a year or more either.
But it is actually the first system that tries seriously to replace the regular quests and that makes it interesting. I do have spent a lot of time running with a full quest log to grind of a few easy so I can get more into it.
And maybe will seeing stuff actually happen in front of your eyes no matter if you take a quest or not actually make the world feel more alive.
The idea is one of the most interesting added things for MMOs in a long time. But the question is still if it works or not. But I am sure looking forward to finding that out myself.
Rift actually have 2 starting zones... I dunno if that helps or not.
GW2 will have 5 so it probably will fit a altaholic better.
This is because the dynamic content in Rift is extremely boring so a lot of players just avoid it when they can and when you are solo and an invasion gets in the way you are kind of just stuck. The mob density is also way too high in the game so avoiding invasions is tedious at best.
Plus, you know, a personal storyline that changes depending on the ~5 questions (with 3-4 options each) you answer at character creation. An altaholics / RP-ers dream, that.
Actually the story also changes while you do it. It's not entirely dependent on the biography questions (I also remember hearing that there were around 10 questions).
Someone has already mentioned that a little skepticism is healthy and even though the information and videos you can find on GW2 looks very promising I too will remain very skeptical while watching the developement of this game.
It just looks and sounds too good to be true. DAOC was my first MMO so the WvW aspect of this game is what caught my attention but all the other parts of the game sound great as well.
Time will tell and I will be hoping they can pull it off.
It has worked for 20 years because it is EASY to develop and EASY to accomplish in game. DDO did away with such questing and there was nothing dangerous about that. Lots of OLD stuff worked and has been replaced through out history.
Agreed. After my 2 first hours in the beta they already started to get boring because they were basically the same thing over and over. It looks a bit different (I do like the looks of the water rifts) and sometimes they spawn a boss but it is still doing exactly the same things over and over.
It would be like playing a game with only one type of quests: the kill 10 rats. You are told to tell 10 of 20 or so different creatures each time but it sure would get boring fast anyways.
I don't know if GW2s dynamic events will be fun to play in the long run or not, it will take at least a months play to know that. But I do know that trying something different is the right thing to do. If people hadn't tried different things we still would play on a C-64 if we had computers at all. But we probably never would have left the stone age with thinking like that.
Quests work, not denying that. But a Sopwith Camel also works, still no airforce use them today. Trying new things will eventually make the genre a lot better, even if I am sure not all of them will work. There will most likely be features to GW2 at launch that will be changed in the future, MMOs are alive things and gets improved or changed with time.
Here's an old list I did:
1. Cyclical
2. Multidirectional
3. Timebased
4. Layered
5. Triggered
6. Persistent
7. Scaling
8. Combinations
9. Rewards: Success/Failure
So basically for Dynamic Events to be successful depends on this criteria..... and how it works for players
1. Challenge
2. Variety
3. Repeat
(4. Team-work) (5. Story?)
The problem is a large one to solve successfully given players rapacious reactions to PvE in most mmos. <.<
I did a diagram sketch of a large DE attributed to a description by Colin Johanson of an event that interested me and it certainly looks very large with plenty of (2) branches - so these do exist in an elaborate form but to what degree are they rare or put another way what is the average DE going to be in terms of stages, time, types of mob etc? How is the standard mostly (5) triggered and what's the proportion that are triggered differently?
Most importantly is how much (8) combination of the the above can they achieve to produce DEs that feel unique or rare or different: Basically fresh compared to stale quests... or how much like the older quests do they actually feel like... just spread across the map a bit more with a more user-friendly interface??!
We've also had mention of how (6) persistent some will be through quotes. Lastly will they motivate players or will players bulldoze their way through it all too easily?
They appear to solve some of war's PQ problems but is that enough?
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem