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Will Neverwinter kill DDO?
carrie01
Member Posts: 77
Cryptic Studios is developing a D&D multiplayer online game based around Neverwinter and is basing the lore the game off the upcoming R.A. Salvatore books, who is the author of many Forgotten Realms books and creator of the famous Drizzt Do'Urden. The game will be like DDO in a sense that it will be mostly instances, with some open areas for people to congregate in (from my understanding after reading an interview with the devs). Here: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/neverwinter/news.html?sid=6274162&mode=previews
This is pretty big news, as we are finally getting an online D&D game based in Faerun. What does this mean for DDO? Do you think when Neverwinter launches it will significantly hurt DDO's population?
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/56744/Neverwinter-Online-Coming-in-2011
Favorites: Vanguard SOH, Final Fantasy XI, Dungeons and Dragons Online
Future:
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It won't be structured as an mmo, but as a "co-op rpg". No "massive" in there. I think it's supposed to be like you and 3 or 4 or 5 other people play it. Something like that.
"I think its just important to remember that no one falls into a simple set of labels, and its even more important, I think, to learn from your mistakes and to fight for the positive choice." - Lindsey Buckingham
Cryptic Studios you say?
I think we have your answer right there.
If anything kills it about Neverwinter it will be the setting. One of the biggest problems I had with DDO was the Eberon setting, Faerun has so much more lore to it and is clearly a the fan favorite between the two.
That being said, it is very likely Cryptic will shoot itself in the foot again with this one.
Lets be honest, with Cryptic developing it you can be sure of a few things...
1. Item mall where performance enhancing items will be sold (phaser lance anyone?)
2. Races that should be part of the game will cost extra ($3 Klingons anyone?)
3. Exclusive items will only be exclusive for 30 to 90 days
4. It will be heavily instanced
5. There wont be much need to socialize
6. The game will sell for 90% off the retail price in 3 to 6 months time
7. It will launch with a lack of content
8. You will be able to hit max level in 2 weeks of normal playtime
It was already stated that this game was based off the same engine as Cryptics other games. If you dont like Chapions Online or Star Trek Online, you probably will not like this one.
True. But that is kind of true for DDO as well. I heard Neverwinter will be the hub city, kind of like how Stormreach is for DDO. Of course, I am sure MMO elements such as Auction Houses, etc will not be present. But I still think this game can compete with DDO because it is 1) online 2) multiplayer and 3) Dungeons and Dragons.
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Yeah, I wish it wasn't Cryptic developing the game either. I am hoping they will be *very* careful with this one and reference Diablo, the first NWN, etc for design decisions. I hope they just try to please the fans of this style of game.
Favorites: Vanguard SOH, Final Fantasy XI, Dungeons and Dragons Online
Future:
Final Fantasy XIV 2.0
EverQuest NEXT
Wizardry Online
Vanguard F2P edition (fingers crossed)
http://vgrpgblog.blogspot.com/
I am going to say the unpopular thing here, but Cryptic may well be there best developer for a DnD game. Now let me qualify this statement before people get all crazy on me and keep in mind I play STO as a Klingon, so my hatered for Cryptic runs deep.
DnD on the pen and paper side of things was never about "massive" in the way we've come to define it for MMO's. Sure the early MuD and MMO's leaned heavily on DnD for their games, but with a year or two moved further away from DnD. When I sit down with my pen and paper group (far to rarely any more) it is with 3-6 people, I think the most we've ever had was 8. Cryptic with its heavy instancing is great at recreating that intimate feeling of a small party of adventueres.
Now where they fail is in creating enough content to call anything they do more than a single player game. What Neverwinter needs to launch with is two things. One, at least 50 well done Dev produced quests/encounters. Two, a deep ever evolving player content generator. There are DM's out there who can make anything even the big boys like bioware make look like cheep quests, giving DnD players the ability to make their own will be what makes or breaks Neverwinter.
Cryptic hasa test bed for this in STO kind of player generated content now, but if what they have in STO is an indication of the limitation Neverwinter is going to face (both asset-wise as well as story-wise) Neverwinter will not be a good game.
The question should be: "Would Cryptic kill Neverwinter?"
I agree with you.
The whole small party thing was an issue with some mmo players in ddo because they wanted big massive world. However, D&D is not really about a big massive world as it is about a party experiencing an adventure. This is not to say that some Dungeon Masters didn't create elaborate worlds but it was more about a specific "dungoen/adventure" experience with a small group of players.
It seems they know what their strengths are and are trying to capitalize on that.
I mean, I had fun in Champions Online and a bit in Star Trek. They just weren't games I wanted to stick with. Primarily because i tend to like fantasy more.
I will definitley try this Neverwinter game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Anytime I think about ddo, dnd, or neverwinter all I think is I wish Bioware would make another NeverWinter Nights, and I mean bioware makes it not just publish it like the did with NeverWinter Nights 2 which was no where close to the first one imo. This however does not seem likely. For one the ip is tied up in court, and even more important bioware is only thinking swtor right now as it will make more then 10 nwn. Do not get me wrong I am going to buy swtor, but I would love to see another bioware nwn as that game is what got me into online rpg's to start with.
Between Neverwinter Nights and Morrowind I pretty much had my evenings (except for weekends) filled.
It's funny because I hated NWN 2 but forced myself to play through it and then got to some real nice stuff. Then there was this whole "I have a keep thing" and I just lost interest at that point. I didn't want to run around and get people for the keep (aren't there chamberlains or some such thing for that?)
In any case Bioware is moving away from D&D and more toward their own IP. Or at least one they can change the systems without having to ask permission each time.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I prefered NWN2 to the first NWN. I did not like the last NWN2 expansion though. I'd rather neither Bioware or Obsidian make an MMO (that includes SWTOR). They both are too good at single player games and are too used to forcing people to play on rails. I'm sure SWTOR will be an amazing experience, but it will not be an experience where I truly get to tell my own story, I will be forced into one of X number of options in their story. That's not a fun MMO experience for me.
My first MMO was Neverwinter Nights, and it makes me sad that these guys are the ones bringing it back to the genre'.
The Keep was the part I enjoyed most about NWN2 it was something different, it also fit the idea of a heroes true progression.
To me it was like "ok now you have property, start mowing the lawn".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
From what i have heard about some of the Foundry things going on right now in STO, if Cryptic can learn from there mistakes and get there ass in gear they could do big things with this.
I heard from many people who think The Foundry in STO could be a game saver with some more development. In truth, STO is the first MMO i know of that even allows the sort of NWN type user made creations.
If this new NWN online game can harness take what Salvatore puts into his books, fully develop a player created content system (using STO as a test bed), and plug in some geniune D&D feel, then who knows.
Like Turbine is much better ? To be honest though, this is more like the battle of the toilet bowl instead of the superbowl. Pick your poison!
I've played with STO's foundry. I have two big complaints. First is the difficulty in using it for story telling, it can be done, but there is a high level of tedium in creating a story to accompany your mob mashing. The second is the sheer lack of art assets, if they are going this route for Neverwinter, they need 100 times the art assets that are offered for STO.
But I think a DnD game that relies hevily on player generated content is probably the best DnD MMO that any can hope for.
CoX and Ryzom both have had tools like the Foundry (the Ryzom Ring and CoX Architect) in their games for quite a while now.
That being said. I've felt for a long time that an editor set for D&D type games is a somewhat necessary thing. Th largest aspect that continually plagues DDO for longterm players has been the frequency at which they replay content and the boxed in feeling of the game world.
Developing a toolkit alongside the game itself so that players can work to not only expand gameplay, but also let it be a means to enhance personal progression through item construction, home/castle construction and renovation, and other such things it would allow for the same values we enjoyed from NWN games and their kin, and it's been proven to be possible in MMOs at least three times now.
Or at least 2.5 times, dunno how the Foundry thing is going. Popular in CoX and Ryzom though.
EDIT: Also, I highly doubt Neverwinter will kill DDO. If Turbine could just develop some tools themselves and open up at least the aesthetic side of content creation, it would secure them against the threat of all the fashion and exploratory people from just jumping ship (assuming they have anyone from that market in the first place, may just expand their market a bit).
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Funny enough almost every one of your points matches the current developer of DDO, Turbine.
Honestly, I'm not too enthusiastic about it. I love Salvatore, I love Forgotten Realmls...but this sounds just like DDO...which was a horrible game for an MMO. All those instances...bleh. at least DDO finally went free to play....no way it was ever worth 15 a month.
I'd almost rather they didn't try to make D&D MMO's anymore, they always butcher them horribly.
"
100 years have passed since the Spellplague consumed the world of Faerûn. Neverwinter, a once majestic city of magic and adventure upon the mighty Sea of Swords, is still being rebuilt from near total ruination. Even as new wonders of stone and iron rivaling ancient works are being raised by the hands of man, dwarf and elf, dark powers beyond reckoning vie for control of the land...
This is a world that promises death for the meek, glory for the bold and danger for all. This is the world of Neverwinter.
Neverwinter Nights Reborn
Continue the critically acclaimed adventure! The #1 best-selling Neverwinter Nights series of PC RPGs returns with an epic Dungeons & Dragons storyline, next-generation graphics, a persistent world, and accessible content creation tools.
Immersive, Imaginative
Enter a world ravaged by the Spellplague. Wrest victory from the claws of darkness and battle the greatest of civilization's enemies in and around Neverwinter, a storied and ancient city upon Faerûn's Sea of Swords.
Challenging, Complex, Classic
Epic gameplay and action rooted firmly in the best traditions of the RPG genre await those heroes courageous enough to brave the Spellplague and all that it has ravaged.
Build a Fantasy
Easy-to-grasp adventure creation tools empower users. Bring compelling quests to life and build challenging levels! Share creations with the entire world in-game. Become a part of the existing Dungeons & Dragons universe... Then build a new one.
Play Together or Die Alone
Encounter dangerous foes and perilous environments. Work with others, strategically, to overcome nightmares, demons, monsters, and beasts of legend.
World Without End
Neverwinter features co-operative multiplayer in an ever-evolving, persistent world where Dungeons & Dragons adventurers quest alongside thousands of other warriors, rogues, wizards and faithful avengers.
New D&D, Beloved D&D
Neverwinter is a true Dungeons & Dragons experience based on the acclaimed 4th Edition rules -- a first of its kind!
A Legend Arises
Unprecedented character customization as only Cryptic can deliver. Imagine a hero, make a hero, become a hero."
This is from the website, http://www.playneverwinter.com/
I'm iffy about using 4th edition. There are both good and bad things about 4e.
You are looking from the wrong angle here.
CORPGs (like Guildwars and DDO) are fine game when you play them with a few friends. They are not MMOs at all but rather a perfect oportunity to play a little with your IRL friends.
But these games are all about small groups like pen and paper RPGs. MMORPGs offer a very different kind of gameplay, both massive and solo. If you take a CORPG game for what it is, something rather close to playing Diablo online with a few buddies, there are a lot of things to enjoy.
If you expect it to be the same thing as a MMO ou will just be dissapointed.
But just like MMOs have CORPGs some strenghts, they are kinda something in between a MMO and a single player game. They can focus a lot more on story than a MMO and spend more work to make the small group into heroes.
I do however agree that CORPGs should not have a 15 dollar monthly fee. They should just like single player game be B2P, Guildwars already proven that you can earn a lot of money using that model without having a itemshop that sells useful items (they do sell Halloween costumes, extra bank space and extra character slots but I can live with that).
CORPGs like STO that both have monthly fees and itemshops is highway robbery and if they plan the same for NWN it wont work at all. CORPGs are closer to single player RPGs and should cost like that, even though an added RMT shop with fluff to cover some more bandwidth is OK.
If they manage to make Armor Class useful (something DDO has failed at to this day), I'm interested. But if it continues to be based on the fundamentally flawed D&D core rules, I'm not hopeful. I do prefer Faerun to Eberron though.
Now if only someone would make a real leap and give me my damned Planescape-based MMO. I've been waiting ages for the Lady of Pain's shadow to fall over me...
I haven't heard much about this game since an initial article I read. If what the other posters here are saying is correct and they're going to adopt a similar "hub-city" model to DDO I will be extremely dissapointed. Not only did I not like that format for DDO, I really don't see the point in creating a game in the exact same genre of the exact same style.
Yes, I get that the original DnD PNP was you and a small group of friends playing through a dungeon...but this is one of the reasons I play MMO's and not PNP anymore. They give me the freedom to do whatever I want. I'm not reliant on 4 or 5 other people to make themselves available before I can log in and have some fun, although if I choose to, I can launch an attack on a dungeon with my nearest and dearest.
I love DND, but I didn't play DDO because the 'hub-city' format didn't appeal to me at all. Add to that the powers that be decided to make it in the most obscure DnD world available.
As for Cryptic. I loved CoH, but STO and CO were dissapointing, and I really don't want to have to use a CS...especially if I'm paying a monthly sub.
Will the fact that this game is set in Faerun be enough to convince to play it? I highly doubt it, not long term anyway. I will probably purchase it, but unless it's F2P I doubt I will play much further than the first month unless Cryptic is able to dazzle me with something unexpected.
Yeah, didn't mean to totally bag on DDO. It's a cool game for a box price. You can play it once in awhile, and not feel like you're wasting money by not logging in frequently, it just wasn't worth $15 a month.
I log onto DDO once in awhile and play with a friend, about once a month, if that. I don't mind the item shop in that. I am not remotely interested in another D&D franchise game after that fashion though. I'd rather someone made another awesome single player like Neverwinter Nights was. Not very faithful that Cryptic is the right studio for the job either. The only promising thing I see about it is that Salvatore is involved.