Survival of Rift

Turdinator

How many times do you think people will enjoy going through EXACTLY THE SAME CONTENT, NO MATTER RACE OR CLASS, before they are bored? 

 

If we use  Warcraft as an example, I would say 4-5 years?

The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Turdinator

How many times do you think people will enjoy going through EXACTLY THE SAME CONTENT, NO MATTER RACE OR CLASS, before they are bored? 

 

If we use  Warcraft as an example, I would say 4-5 years?

Thanks for proving my point. WoW has one different starter area per race, with a totally different story line. WoW has very rich racial lore, even later when the quest lines become common, an elf is always different from a human, a gnome, an undead, a tauren, and NPCs react differently to them.

There's nothing like that in Rift. The only difference between races is skin color, body mass and size of the ears.

Turdinator

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Turdinator

How many times do you think people will enjoy going through EXACTLY THE SAME CONTENT, NO MATTER RACE OR CLASS, before they are bored? 

 

If we use  Warcraft as an example, I would say 4-5 years?

Thanks for proving my point. WoW has one different starter area per race, with a totally different story line. WoW has very rich racial lore, even later when the quest lines become common, an elf is always different from a human, a gnome, an undead, a tauren, and NPCs react differently to them.

There's nothing like that in Rift. The only difference between races is skin color, body mass and size of the ears.

I thought the question was how long will people do the exact same thing over and over until they get bored.  

The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Turdinator

I thought the question was how long will people do the exact same thing over and over until they get bored.  

That question got answered. WoW at release had way more content variety than Rift could dream of, and it's world was like 4 times bigger too at least.

I'm gonna make it more easy for you so you may understand it:

WoW at release = 500 pages book of entertaining and  fun reading.

LOTRO at release = 300 pages book of well written stories.

Rift at release = 100 pages book you can buy in any train station for cheap fun during the train ride. It's well written though, granted, but pretty short.

And old friend of mine described that kind of games pretty accurately actually:

 http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=4795

RiftFan

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Thanks for proving my point. WoW has one different starter area per race, with a totally different story line. WoW has very rich racial lore, even later when the quest lines become common, an elf is always different from a human, a gnome, an undead, a tauren, and NPCs react differently to them.

There's nothing like that in Rift. The only difference between races is skin color, body mass and size of the ears.

Rich racial lore LOL. Tauren Paladin make a ton of sense right. also creating all these awesome races is why all of their servers are 99% in favor of one faction.

The_Korrigan

Originally posted by RiftFan

Rich racial lore LOL. Tauren Paladin make a ton of sense right. also creating all these awesome races is why all of their servers are 99% in favor of one faction.

You may want to bring out better arguments than totally fake and invented ones (99% faction?). Then we may have the beginning of a conversation.

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Turdinator

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Turdinator

I thought the question was how long will people do the exact same thing over and over until they get bored.  

That question got answered. WoW at release had way more content variety than Rift could dream of, and it's world was like 4 times bigger too at least.

I'm gonna make it more easy for you so you may understand it:

WoW at release = 500 pages book of entertaining and  fun reading.

LOTRO at release = 300 pages book of well written stories.

Rift at release = 100 pages book you can buy in any train station for cheap fun during the train ride. It's well written though, granted, but pretty short.

And old friend of mine described that kind of games pretty accurately actually:

 http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=4795

What does any of that have to do with doing the same thing over and over in a video game?  

 

Warcraft = get to max level and grind.

Rift = Get to max level and grind.

LotRo = Get to max level and grind

 

I don't care how many starting areas, this and that there are. The end result is always the same.   Did you mean that Warcraft has more ways to trick you into thinking that you aren't doing the same thing over and over?  I would agree with that.

The_Korrigan

Originally posted by blueturtle13

I think Trion has done a decent job of providing a feature and content rich virtual space in which to add content for years to come. Rush to end is not the only player they are considering. The Rifts, the dungeons, the collections, the crafting, the achievements, the lore( which is better than alot of people give it credit for and the least talked about of the games positives), the pvp, the class system all provide tons of content and different things to do. More so than most MMO's at launch.

 

Oh yes, Rift has more content at release than... Warhammer at release? Conan at release? Aion at release? But what else?

All the remotely successful games, WoW, but also EQ2 and LOTRO, released with way more content. The only games which released with such limited and "one way road" style content are today considered as failures and had to resort to server merging.

But anyway, we'll see. I'll be back in a couple of months to say "told you so"... or not, I'll most likely be way too busy playing SW:TOR

Sovrath

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Turdinator

 

Only thing missing was "IMO" spread about every other sentence.  Other than that, it was a "by the book" doom prophecy.  

It's actually not just doom for the sake of doom, but based on my experience with MMOs.

This game is not different from Warhammer or Conan except it's just more polished and less bugged.

It's a quite good hint about the sad state of the MMORPG market when people hype and praise a game just because it's polished and relatively bug free. Problem is, polish alone doesn't make a game interesting on the long term. While enjoying Rift, I've always (since beta) questionned its long term survivability and its replayability.

How many times do you think people will enjoy going through EXACTLY THE SAME CONTENT, NO MATTER RACE OR CLASS, before they are bored? Some like me will roll one char on each side since the quest lines are different... but then?

This game badly lacks lore, notably racial lore. It also badly lacks varied end game content. People spent 50 levels grinding rifts, how many more do you think they are gonna grind before they are bored? How long will they be blinded by the "fake dynamic world" before they realize rifts are actually nothing dynamic at all, since the world is exactly the same after the rift has been destroyed, but just another disguised type of mob spawn point? How long before they realize rifts are actually a very cheap way of adding content without having to design new dungeons or areas? How convenient, add a random mob spawn point, call it rift, pretend it's dynamic, and people all cheer! Cash in and profit for VERY little work done.

Time will tell. Maybe I'm wrong. As you said, everything I write is only opinion based on some facts.

Well, maybe the game is not about "making alts"?

It seems to me that people have gotten so used to making alts that they expect it. In Rift I don't really think racial differences matter. It's not a part of the game. The game is about Rifts from other dimensions/worlds opening and threatening to engulf Talara. Not about how the Elves deal with it over the dwarves.

So there realy isn't a need for different starter areas. Not lore wise or to encourage alts. One character can essentially be several different alts.

And as the game "just launched" I think it's fair to say that we can wait and see what new or different things they bring to the table with their next content patch. Heck, they have already stated that they want players to experience the test server and give feed back. Will their new content flesh the game out? Don't know. But i'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Also I'm sure it takes quite a lot of work to get an mmo up and running as can be seen from all the games that have launched and had issues.

I don't think there is any laziness involved.

RiftFan

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

You may want to bring out better arguments than totally fake and invented ones (99% faction?). Then we may have the beginning of a conversation.

He says WoW has rich racial lore. Yeah up until they killed off Arthas and now it seems like they have run out unless they like recycling old content because it is fun.

Tauren Paladins in NO WAY make sense EVERRRRR in the WoW story line. That is beyond the exact opposite of what they stand for. I can not lie. The Rift storyline is freaking hard to follow and I have read every quest and every little book.

The zone storylines barely tie together. I think they need more cinematics or something because trying to keep track of all the storylines is getting very hard.

The_Korrigan

Originally posted by RiftFan

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

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PS: I didn't know a MMO was definted by 4 class archetypes. Games like Ultima Online, Asheron's Call and Eve Online must not be MMOs then...

Theely

The_Korrigan has a very good point. I'm currently playing Rift and having fun for the most part. I can easily see that changing within the next month or two though.

I'm taking my time since I already know there isn't much to do at level 50. My main is level 38. The actual rifts themselves have already lost their appeal and I find them and the invasions they spawn to be more of an annoyance then anything else. There are enough mobs getting in my way of my current goal, invasions just add more. I could probably live with this though. I don't think I'll be able to live with not being able to flee mobs and constently getting dismounted though...

My biggest issue is lack replayablity. This is a two part complaint. My first issue with replayability is the same as The_Korrigan's. You have two quest lines. Guardians and Defiants. Once you've done them that is it.

My second issue with replayability is the lack of need to replay... I did not know that you could end up getting every soul for a given class. Once you make a mage you can make every combo from that one toon. It will cost some coin to buy the 4 roles and do respecs but whatever it is just coin. You'll only need 4 toons. Ever. Add a new toon if they ever add a whole new class. Just adding one new soul per tree? Thats just going to be a quest and probably an easy one. I'm sure many people actually find this to be a good feature. Not me though, just my opinion.

I'll play while my friends do but won't hesitate to move on if something else looks better, that I haven't already played.

thamighty213

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Izork

Really.. GW2 wont blow anything, it wont kill any game.

 

 

It's B2P which means MOST P2P players will still keep a sub to their MMO and play GW2!

 

 

atleast I will and i think it's the case for most people.

Just want to point out something here.

Whilst GW2 may have no subscription, it still costs time to play. Same as any MMO.

So if it is truly as good as it is building up to be and you find yourself playing it for the majority of your free time, are you really likely to still be paying a sub for another MMO that you are not actually even playing?

For that matter, what happens if when playing GW2 you start to wonder: "I'm getting all of this without a sub...so what exactly am I paying for with this other game? What are they offering me which is worth this extra money?"

GW2, if it is good, will have a great affect on the genre. If only for the fact that it will show customers what you can get without a sub. Which is a good thing as all other developers who want to go the P2P route, will have to one up GW2 in order to make the model worth it. Win win in my book.

WHy not ?

 

Many did with GW.

 

Players can continue to sub for a myrida of reasons.

 

Still enjoy it.

 

Check in with their community.

 

Vet Rewards.

 

Just a couple that applied to me in SWG when I had a year out primarily playing GW.

 

And lets not forget um "Forget"I have lost count of the amount of tickets I have seen where a player is requesting a refund because they went to X.Y or Z and had simply forgot to cancel their sub (The only time we ever entertain this request is if it has been a forces person and they have went away serving)

I would take a educated guesstiamte (metric supported) that at any given time 15% of a sub-base is not activeley playing the game but just keeping their sub up for some other reason.

Abraxos

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Turdinator

 

Only thing missing was "IMO" spread about every other sentence.  Other than that, it was a "by the book" doom prophecy.  

It's actually not just doom for the sake of doom, but based on my experience with MMOs.

This game is not different from Warhammer or Conan except it's just more polished and less bugged.

It's a quite good hint about the sad state of the MMORPG market when people hype and praise a game just because it's polished and relatively bug free. Problem is, polish alone doesn't make a game interesting on the long term. While enjoying Rift, I've always (since beta) questionned its long term survivability and its replayability.

How many times do you think people will enjoy going through EXACTLY THE SAME CONTENT, NO MATTER RACE OR CLASS, before they are bored? Some like me will roll one char on each side since the quest lines are different... but then?

This game badly lacks lore, notably racial lore. It also badly lacks varied end game content. People spent 50 levels grinding rifts, how many more do you think they are gonna grind before they are bored? How long will they be blinded by the "fake dynamic world" before they realize rifts are actually nothing dynamic at all, since the world is exactly the same after the rift has been destroyed, but just another disguised type of mob spawn point? How long before they realize rifts are actually a very cheap way of adding content without having to design new dungeons or areas? How convenient, add a random mob spawn point, call it rift, pretend it's dynamic, and people all cheer! Cash in and profit for VERY little work done.

Time will tell. Maybe I'm wrong. As you said, everything I write is only opinion based on some facts.

 Still not sure why you come to a specific site for discussing Rift and preach doom? Did you do the same with Warhammer and Conan and Vanguard and all the other games that promised the world and gave us just a little? Not just yourself but anyone for that matter? I tried D&D,  Conan, and many others but just don't see the need to go to their sites and tell the fans that  their game will fail. Is their a badge for that? An award? It's a free country but when I get tired of a game now I unsubscribe and look for something new. I don't try to burn the house down behind me.

Jeez, Rift is a good game, I may or may not be playing it in a year, it might not be the sandbox of lore that EQ was but for now I am supporting a good game with high polish. It is sad but most games can't offer those two things. Seems a waste to be bitter and sullen till that perfect game comes out and many seem to be doing that? Their greatest achievement isn't an epic weapon but a prediciton on the failure of a game.

The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Abraxos

Still not sure why you come to a specific site for discussing Rift and preach doom? Did you do the same with Warhammer and Conan and Vanguard and all the other games that promised the world and gave us just a little? Not just yourself but anyone for that matter? I tried D&D,  Conan, and many others but just don't see the need to go to their sites and tell the fans that  their game will fail. Is their a badge for that? An award? It's a free country but when I get tired of a game now I unsubscribe and look for something new. I don't try to burn the house down behind me.

Jeez, Rift is a good game, I may or may not be playing it in a year, it might not be the sandbox of lore that EQ was but for now I am supporting a good game with high polish. It is sad but most games can't offer those two things. Seems a waste to be bitter and sullen till that perfect game comes out and many seem to be doing that? Their greatest achievement isn't an epic weapon but a prediciton on the failure of a game.

 

I'm playing Rift right now, so I think I'm quite qualified to talk about it just like any of you guys. It's not because I'm not overly enthousiastic about the longevity of this game that I'm not enjoying it right now, and for what it is. If you wanna know, I'm playing a "tank cleric" on an European server.

The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Turdinator

Are you always this upset when someone picks apart your posts?  Calling me a poor politician was kind of hitting below the belt.

The only upset person I see here is you. And you didn't pick anything appart, you tried to digress by using unrelated arguments because apparently, answering to the points made was too hard or impossible for you. That's what politicians try to do when they don't want to answer specific arguments, thus my "politician" reference.

Now if you take the time to really provide counter arguments instead, I'll gladly keep on arguing with you.

But I won't enter your game

Turdinator

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Turdinator

{mod edit}

The only upset person I see here is you. And you didn't pick anything appart, you tried to digress by using unrelated arguments because apparently, answering to the points made was too hard or impossible for you. That's what politicians try to do when they don't want to answer specific arguments, thus my "politician" reference.

Now if you take the time to really provide counter arguments instead, I'll gladly keep on arguing with you.

But I won't enter your game

{mod edit}

Now, back on topic:

 

Rift has just as good a chance to succeed as any other game on the market.  It's pretty sweet. 

Bravnik

EQ2s issues was that at about lvl 45 there was NO CONTENT and classes were broken. I had the number 1-9 Coercer in EQ up to lvl 45 then quit playing as I was just simply too frustrated playing a broken game (Emalia - you can look her up). I came back to play later but quit again. EQ had the same issues that most new MMO's have today. The zones are way too big, too much worry about graphics and not enough content.

WoW was and has always been more geared towards the casual player with hardcore at the end game. They walked the line well between casual and hardcore (my style) then they introduced PVP and damn near ruined the game and then WOTLK came out and dumbed down the hardcore side of the game which for me was the last straw. Once my guild cleared all of WOTLK in two weeks after hitting 80, I quit.

I'm currently playing RIFT and though I like it it (been a VIP from almost day one) I find something missing. Not sure what it is but its missing. I simply don't feel part of the world if that makes sense? For some reason in WOW it just seems right when you're trying to level. In RIFT I feel like I'm just killing stuff to be killing stuff even though that is basically the same thing I would do in WOW it still feels different. Maybe because I'm playing a Bard and there is simply not much risk....I don't know. PVP seems skilless, killing mobs feels skilless, dungeons feel lackluster and skilless. I feel like I can simply just mash buttons till max level without any thought or skill required.

Maybe it will get more challenging later as I'm only 21 ATM. But keeping in mind I have been playing MMO's from the days of MUDS, I think I have a good grasp of what is good and what is not. RIFT is not bad but there is something missing.....a disconnect if you will.

RiftFan

Well I think the game has survivability for several reasons:

1. http://rift-progress.com/

We have some pretty good guilds that have been attracted to the game and are loving the interaction they get from Raid devs and their feedback on tuning or fixing encounters is being listened too.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c289/Etoiles_mortant/Greenscale.png

Side note here: They recently buffed this boss after a compilation of some pretty intense WoW players tore through it. It never made sense that they released Greenscale with the same health that a lvl 45 zone invasion boss had (1.3 million).

 

2. http://rift.zam.com/en/itemlist.html?1

^ WARNING: turn off ads and scripts before you go there because I can bet those guys are under constant attack. Play it safe

I list that because Trion has basically dropped their database and it is updated real time based on the rate players discover things in game. We basically have RiftHead right now.

 

3. Reviews are positive no matter where you check. MMORPG..IGN...PCGamer. Any site you check is typically rating the game as a solid investment for the long term or short term(swtor or gw2 players waiting)

 

4. It is not a WoW killer, but a pretty nice upgrade for people looking for a replacement, but want a game that plays the same.

skullquaker

Originally posted by Telil

Originally posted by hardicon

if someone is sending you those types of emails it is probably not blizzard it is a keylogger.  blizzard sends one emails that says your account has been banned for suspicious activity if you want to keep it contact blizzard customer support.  its a bit more long winded but that is basically what it says.  if i was you i wouldnt respond to those emails but contact blizzard by phone if you want to get through to them, takes longer but takes the keyloggers out of the loop also.  sorry did not mean to derail the thread but this seemed important enough for me to say something.

 Yes thank you friend!

I hope i have not done any damage by responding to these mails But thanks again for pointing this out, will be adding these address to spam once i get home, and also will call blizzard to speak with them about it.

dont bother adding to spam they just keep sending new ones out . best bet is to change your email for wow  and wow only  unless  msn readd the full block options to hotmail again

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Jamkull

it may have as much PVE content but it lacks terrably when it comes to PVP content than that of WAR or even WoW at launch.  as in the battlegrounds etc.

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cheyane

Did WoW have battlegrounds at launch ? I do not think so but I could be wrong.