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Random Map Generator in MMORPG's? Possible? Useful? Why arn't they Used?
nickman1993
Member Posts: 287
Why has no mmorpg company of game designer (that I can think of) created a random map generator?
Imagine going into a BG or Arena or even dungeons/World PvP Areas and knowing everytime that you go in there would be a different map. A different setup each time. No more "Crap I got the gay map and I cant do anything because I am being pillar humped" .... Or no more "...ugh... I hate BG's all its is, is alliance favored altervalley/[insertname of bg/Dungeon] that I have done over and over and over again and again."
End Game content would create itself and aside from major raid encounters and some basics set in place (must have 3 towers / 2flags / Team-DM type game mode) it would in essence diversify itself.
Even, to take it a step farthur, You could have entire open world pvp zones that would deterriorate over time and creat new maps for themselves as [insert outisde force] or npc's shift "tides of battles". You would log in one day and be fighting over a factory needed to bulster npc/player resource and then a week later be in the same "zone" yet now be defending against a keep that had been created after having had the resources [from the factory] to create it, then another week goes by your fighting on the rumble of the once great keep, and a new thing the next week so on and so forth.
This doesn't necesarrily have to be for MMO's either..... Even fps/stratgy could implememnt them. Halo Reach maps that create themselves and sc2 maps that are used to spice up custom games.
Idk, Just a thought I had. I am not saying it would be easy to create, in fact it may very well be impossible. I am not a developer/programmer nor do I know anything about being one but the capabilities of having one of these systems I think would help keep the "same ol' Content" new and exciting, while lessening the work load of developers to focus on other more import things.
Anyone have any input or thoughts? Is it possible? would it really help?
Comments
STO uses one, I imagine Cryptic's Neverwinter project will use one in some form, but mostly likely as a part of player generated content tools.
There have been some experiments aboout random dungeons, even Wow have tried it.
I am not sure why it hasn't catched on, works fine in Diablo and would make the dungeon grind somewhat less grindy.
With PvP zones it is due to balance, people who feel that their side is worse would whine all the time.
i don't think you could do open world like that. it'd have to be instanced so it would randomized each time you load up area x with your party. whereas if it was open world, creating the changes would be a nightmare (characters logging in in objects, constant updates slowing load times, etc.). but yes. that would be cool, and i'm sure there's some reason that it's never been done (for instances) but i can't think of one. ooh! except i think dungeon runners was randomized though i might be wrong. that was a fun game. *sigh*
edit: grammar
Star trek online kind of has randomized missions if you go into unexplored sectors.
I'm not a fan of instances typically, but when randomized they can be fun, it's something that would be neat to see implemented more.
The grand-daddy sci-fi MMO Anarchy Online had a random dungeon generator. It was ok, but that game is also 10 years old now, so it can definitely be done better.
There are two big problems with Random Dungeon Generators that I generally see when they are put out. Neither one is necessarily a problem with the generator itself, but is a design problem with the game as a whole. (Its usually an either/or..you don't tend to see both problems at the same time).
The first problem is that a designer decides that random generators are an excuse to avoid putting in real content. The problem with random generators is that they are fairly good at creating things, but not for putting them into any sort of real context. So while the dungeons may or may not be any good, they lack any significance to the world itself. In the end the game feels hollow and empty as there's simply no real content to the game to help suck the players in.
The second problem is the opposite. Developers decide to add it in as part of the game, but not the main content. However once its implemented, its rarely touched again. You can only run a random dungeon so many times before you start noticing the tile-sets. Then the entire system becomes stale and you say "oh no, not again!"
To make a GOOD dungeon generator, you have to do a number of things. First, you need to integrate it into the world. You don't walk up to a terminal and generate a dungeon, its part and parcil with the rest of the world. This means your algorithm needs to be smarter, it needs to take into affect the situation in the world and generate some sort of context for the dungeon. (I.E. if your nation is currently at war, perhaps this dungeon is an intelligence gathering mission.) Second, once the dungeon generator is ready for launch, start working on new tile-sets, new skins, new monsters, etc. The generator is never done. Even if you add only a few new rooms every patch, the library will eventually grow enough to keep things new and interesting.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
When I play an MMORPG, I wan't play in an RPG game world. I don't want to log onto a que lobby like World of Warcraft and instances. Random Map Generator takes away immersion. Why can't new age mmo players capture the old philosophy of immersion? Two different types of "people" I guess.
Also, it would take a ton of resources and source code to design. I think alot of game elements would have to take a hit for this, especially in the exterior world design. It would take alot of extra coding and a huge engine hence that many players would be playing this. You could asy that WoW's dungeon que is a random dungeon, but not a generator.
Random maps make the game more difficult to play, so no.
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Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Random map generation doesnt have to take immersion away. It can be added in extremely clever seamless ways.
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One of the few random map generators that I ever encountered that I liked was in Daggerfall. I've never seen a transition to an MMO that worked as well
I mean, 15,000 towns, villages, cities and dungeons, 750k NPC's, over 487 square km. To me, that was one of the best demonstrations of randomly generated terrain.
Anarchy Online for its time was decent, but even random felt like it had limited options, and once you had seen a few dungeons you had a general feel for all of them. I think these days the attention to detail that comes from hand crafting is what people need, and want. As cool as random seems, the ability to challenge players with carefully scripted encounters is probably more in demand.
Anarchy Online does it for missions.
Mabinogi does it for dungeons.
Final Fantasy XI does it in several ways. The Eijhenar endgame activity makes a random map you have to complete, with random goals. There's another acitivty called Moblin Maze Mongers. You put tiles on a grid (like tetris) and it makes your own random dungeon depending on what tiles you use. Good for soloing (since the tiles determine mob types, the goal of the dungeon, etc) if you set it up right.
Playing - EVE, Wurm
Retired - Final Fantasy XI, Anarchy Online, Mabinogi
Waiting - ArcheAge, Salem
So you make the random dungeons exactly that; random dungeons. The overworld would be static along with some instances, but you could get quests that tell you a new dungeon has been discovered and the <FACTION> would like you to clear out the baddies so that they can explore the ruins for information in exchange for a reward. They could then caravan (port) you to their newly discovered dig site to clean it up.
See, it can be done.
Oh, I just love random generation, I almost exclusively play games with noticeable random generation elements, like strategy games, rogue-like games, management and simulation games, Minecraft... It doesn't need to be anything amazing, just that there's little change makes a world of difference. You could spawn a random level mob with random model and name made up with a name generator. That sorta stuff makes a game SOO much more fun. Might be just me with the random generation fetish.
Random generation requires some design directions though, I believe, not so easy to incorporate into a 3D MMORPG especially in the terms of terrain changes.