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Why cant we have both?
Jagsman32
Member Posts: 109
I subbed to Rift a week ago and am already mind-numbingly bored with running kill quest and delivery quest. I play somewhat casually, got a few characters to 15-17 testing different souls but find leveling completely boring (not good since I haven't even reached 20 yet). There is almost no communciation with other players while doing these quests, and the only actual interaction I have with other players is when I run into a rift, and even then nobody talks. It's just kill, kill, kill. Once the rift is defeated, its back to running errands and kill quests.
Boring.
Why is it I can't find a good group of players and sit on a spawn or explore deep into a dungeon. I am not talking about doing the same instance over and over. I am talking Solsek B, Crushbone, or Lower Guk in Everquest style dungeons. I understand that many players dont like doing that kind of dungeon crawling and thats understandable. But why make leveling so cookie-cutter quest grind/instance grind? Why not add that style of leveling too? I enjoyed the days of sitting with a group for hours just talking, killing, grinding, laughing, relaxing. Let the people who want to quest grind do their thing, and also include kill grinding and make it just as rewarding. This type of game would be perfect for that too. If there are no groups available and you didn't want to lead one yourself, you could just go quest to level until a group started or spot opened up.
Anyway, for those who are subbed to Rift, do the quests ever let up? I can only take so many boring, linear, shitty quests before I say adios. No way I can last til 50 doing this shit.
Comments
That pretty much mirrors my rift experiences. Im slick of the endless flow of quests in mmorpgs now, I too miss the old player interation that used to exist,
Sadly i think the mentality has changed with this current generation.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I agree, MMOs should be able to offer more kinds of gameplay, it is really not that hard.
If you want a huge grindy dungeon the game could have a few, even if it is extra work it would help the game keep more players.
Now that I think about it, are there any MMOs today that DO have both? Only one I can think of is DAoC.
I must say OP you are right , I miss communication I had the first 2 days , but i really can´t get into a fantasy MMO .
Also partially choose a server that was RP and was only full of grievers >.<
So waiting another week till the grievers leave , then giving it one more go , if the community is really like WoW .
Then i give up .
What youre describing is PvP.
No questing, for the most part it's an extremely slow/grindy progression, and if you're every lucky enough to roll a very competent group, over the course of the 40 minute or so win streak your team means more to you than your guild mates of friends.
That's only if things turn out well however. 90% of the time it's a cesspit of scum and lamery.
Sits on a spawn or deep into a dungeon thats not boring hahaha.
These days its exclusif groups of friends in guilds or clans and many only communicate through vent or teamspeak.
So all the interaction and social communication with other players in the world is almost gone its sad but thats what majority wants, they dont wanne stand still and say hello say something nice or help you assist you or even getting to know you those times are over my friend im affraid.
One of few games i know of is saga of ryzom where they still do that but all you players ignore such games while its a great mmo but sandbox is these days when made by indie not cool to play i think?
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Go kill stuff in dungeons with your guild. You can do that all day long. It's virtually the exact same as oldschool dungeon grinding, except you get bosses.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
This was precisely why I stayed away from Rift in the first place, I had a feeling it would boil down to monotonous questing and, more or less, anti-social monster slaying. Of course, in order to remedy the anti-social part, why not try being the one that starts up a conversation at the Rifts? There's bound to be someone that answers and doesn't completely ignore such things.
Easier said then done. I have joined a couple guilds now, and both guilds I have joined has been almost completely silent. A few questions here and there, people loggin on and off, but almost no talking. People just reppin the guild tag and soloing their way through the game, like 90% of the game population.
I know what you mean and I agree, it's an issue with MMOs generally these days. When I make an Alert in DCU, which is a bit like a short dungeon, people even don't say hello and bye anymore. They just silently fight alongside.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
There are great things from both systems and a melding of the two would be amazing. I long for a game that gives me the joy I get from a persistent world like Vanguard (probably the most beautiful world I've seen in any MMO so far), but I also want to have the kind of freedom that instancing can give me, when I want a more heroic moment. A truely innovative MMO would find a way to almost seamlessly blend the two experiences making something new.
Cause too few, like yourself, like it to make the resource cost worthwhile.
Few wants to kill the same thing over and over, or camping for spawn. Quest-grinding, or instance grinding at least get you to kill different mobs.
Cookier cutter quest/instance grind = more fun than cookie cutter EQ style mob grind. I played EQ when it first came out but will never go back to that style of boring grind.
You know, I get the solo over group play argument. I see both sides to that one and frankly I believe they do both have pros and cons.
But this generic sentiment that questing in general in an mmo sucks simply boggles my mind. Not real sure how grinding mobs is okay but the moment you have a quest grinding the same mobs this somehow ruins the game.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
The problem is in the past all we had was MOBS grinding , so in the end it feels like work .
Now we have 2 choices , MOBS grinding Rift chasing ... Questing ,
It is starting to feel like work , I partially blaim cataclysme for it , cause having done 2 toons to 85 .
Am really tired of following the arrow to the area and kill just to level . >.<
But other side I think, I blaim meself , am just totally overburned of questing .
Now how to space things up for designers, is to make the rewards more rewarding , by coloring the reward differntly .
But thats only a short term solution , I don´t think the current system is flawed , just that we seen it all before .
We gotten too spoiled
. so easily bored .
It is not really the same thing. Dungeons today are really small.
It is kinda like being used to a huge nightclub but then being forced to visit a bunch of really small bars with 3-4 tables in.
Running a huge dungeon in the old days were a great feeling. If the games could add a few really large dungeons as well as the small it would work of course.
Would it though? Is it worth the devs time? Seems to me the majority of players nowadays don't want to run through large dungeons anymore. Whether it is due to real life time constraints or simply a different gaming mentality who's to say?
Take WoW for example. Some of the same dungeons that back in the day players used to love and couldn't get enough of seemed to be the ones bitched the most about when I tried the game out again. Seemed the larger and more time consuming the dungeon the less enthused players were to go through them. While I know there are a few of us that enjoy that type of dungeon crawling I think we're in the minority anymore.
...and becoming smaller all the time.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Raids are still large last I checked. You only need 9 other people too which isn't that hard to get.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Think of it this way, when playing WoW in Cata, I was having to spend well over an hour in a dungeon following a set path, killing mobs and moving from boss to boss. There was no freedom. I didnt like being constrained to that. To get the good stuff I have to run these dungeons and finish them to get my tokens to spend at a vendor.
Why cant there be the option to also have dungeons that are huge but NOT instanced(i.e. think Sebilis, Chardok, The Hole etc). Let the bosses be there and make em all elite. Its pretty simple, grab a group and kill mobs. You dont have to force your way to the end of the dungeon to get the tokens from the final boss. Make the named mobs(boss) drop from armor and a few tokens for everyone.
Id rather spend 3 hours in a open dungeon than 1.5 hours in a "tunnel/funnel" dungeon.
Why cant both options be there?
EQ2 tries every couple expansions to cater to both play styles. Usually they mess up the risk reward balance between the two play styles pretty bad though. They've tried it again with the latest expansion, not sure how well that is going yet though.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
MMo's have changed since my UO/EQ1 days but so have the players. In general I think the average age has fallen overall and social skills are disappearing. Then when you factor in vent/voice talk it can get downright quiet. I'm in DC U online and it implemented it's area voice chat and I've yet to hear it used but I think it's a good idea especially if they can come up with more world fights for folks to join in on without grouping (aka rift-like). As far as I'm concerned that's the future of mmo'ing so the folks with the non-social or anti-social (like me) can join in and communicate without reading chat while you are busy fighting.
Raid content in most games appears, least to me, to be getting "smaller and quicker" to accomplish as well.
Not to mention in the majority of games the amount of raid content as compared to other portions of the game is rather small. The fact that raid group material is being offered in smaller party types speaks leaps and bounds to this as it is. So not real sure what you're getting at.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
The fact that if we are looking for something to 'get lost in due to its size' raids offer that.
People say 'but we loved BRD!' but this is through rose-colored nostalgia. The instance was terrible for a lot of people. Saying 'grab a pillow, some food and water cause we are in here for the next 5 hours!' is not something the majority of players enjoy. And don't mention the trash respawns and the 'father flame' and..... ('psst! umadbro?') yes I AM MAD! >_<
*was part of the attunment group that had to attune people for raids* >_>
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
In my experience those huge dungeons (or the ones I did in AC, AO, and DAOC at least) had about the same mob variety, they were just longer.
In all 3 of those early games I remember grinding through mob after mob of the same type, to eventually reach a new mob that went on for quite a while.
Whereas modern dungeons provide a nice reliable mix of things.
If you repeat modern dungeons over and over they admittedly become about as repetitive as oldschool dungeons were, but that's sorta why I suggested running those dungeons: the experience eventually becomes quite similar.
Personally I found oldschool dungeons incredibly boring. It was hard to find groups for them, then once you were there it often took a while to work your way to the part of the dungeon that was the right level for you, then once you were there (30-60 mins later) you finally got your reward: repetitive mob-grinding. Joy.
As for the other "easier said than done" person: Maybe I just lucked out, because I was able to find a guild which ran quite a few dungeons, and chats somewhat often. If I wanted even more chat, I would've jumped at the chance to join the ones advertising a voice comm server -- and I would also start up conversations more frequently, and start up dungeon groups.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Like DAoCs Darkness Fall? Just awesome fun!
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
IMO, the problem lies with how most MMOs are layed out. There are too many quests and they're always spread out (too many starter areas, instances, etc...). Nobody is ever doing the same quests, nor do they need to, since most of them are so easy a 12 year old kid with ADD can complete them. Then of course, there's the fact that people don't like to be forced into grouping while they're trying to level. It just 'slows them down', since grouping doesn't usually offer any real benefit.
I could think of a few ways to fix these problems, which leads me to believe that the MMO devs are aware of them. Too bad game companies tend to stick with what's proven to make money instead of trying to be innovative.