It's still a pretty decent MMO.... but I think they are really loosing sight of ALOT of what made it unique and appealing in the first place....and that wasn't grinding instances over and over again to get "tokens".
I completely agree with you.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It's arguably one of the worst MMORPGs out there. I have a lifetime sub to it and almost never play it because there is so little to do in it.
Chock full of great content? Where? It's literally got 1/3 or less the content compared to WoW or EQ2. Even the standard generic F2P games offer as much as LOTRO.
There is so little to do in it? Oh you are the guy who has never found a kin in Landroval and who never grouped and then complain there is not enough content at higher level? You are probably the only person I saw on every forum which complained about the community. Never wondered the problem could come from your side? and honest, if you don't like the game, which is perfectly fine, why log in anyway? Plenty of MMOs around.
For the guys here who says the game has became a cashcow, honestly, you see references to the store if you really want to see them on your screen. I have now 7000TP and used only a few ones for a few perks (Deed accelerators mostly). I completed all the Raids, so I'm positive you don't need any of the potions to complete anything in the game. (just to dispel complain fo Pay per Win that I hear around). If you choose to spend TP, fine with you but you do not need as a subbers to buy anything to enjoy the game.
If you don't like the F2P hybrid model, fine. But stop spreading lies unless you played the game in recent times.
I'd go so far as to say that I have come to despise the people who fund the F2P movement. You are either a penny pinching free loader ($15 a month is almost trivial for the entertainment an MMO offers; even for a teenager) or you actually like paying to win. The former type provides the latter type a largish audience to witness the awesomeness that they paid for.
Or here is another thought as to why someone would like LOTRO freemium, they have money but not a lot of time and they do not see the financial sense of paying monthly for something (AKA renting) when you can buy it. Let’s look at LOTRO freemium at see what it shows us from this perspective.
If I started LOTRO today and I went the Freemium route it would have the following cost:
10,000 points for $100 – since points cost $50 for 5000 points.
These points would get me the following: Mines of Moria- 2495 points, Misty Mountains -695 points, North Downs – 595 points, Enedwaith – 695 points, Eregion – 695 points, Evendim – 595 points, Forochel – 595 points, Angmar – 595 points, Trollshaws – 595 points, currency cap – 495 points, 2 character slots added-1190 points, Auction house upgrade – 95 points.
This would leave me with 665 points, plus I would get points for playing the game and I could always buy another 5000 points so I have points waiting for future content expansions. So let just say I spent $150 and I have a total of 5665 points waiting on my account for future content releases. Oh and you are so right, buying these zones and account upgrades makes it so I am so paying to win.
Now let’s compare that to the P2P, that you so elegantly said only cheap people will not use.
Now if I did a subscription for LOTRO I would pay 119.88 a year if you pay for a year at a time, if you pay monthly it is $179.88. So if you only play for a short time the subscription is cheaper at least for the yearly, but if you want to keep an active account for an extended period of time then the picture starts to change drastically.
After two years without purchasing any new expansion, subscription paying yearly is at $239.76/paying monthly is at $359.76 and freemium is at $150.
After 3 years subscription paying yearly is at $359.64/paying monthly is at $539.64, and freemium is at $150.
Then to make things even more interesting if a paid for expansion comes out you have to add that to the total of your subscription cost, while with the Freemiuim and my 5665 points I can just add it without another penny spent.
I see know you are so right Mr. Financial wizard only someone really cheap would choose freemium over P2P. After all $359.64 over 3 years is so much of a better deal than $150. I am going to have to go on a crusade to educate all the accountants that have been telling people to buy instead of renting; they were so wrong thank you Mr. Financial wizard!
All the wealthy people I know that buy cars with cash, I am going to have to tell them how cheap they are for not getting a loan and not making monthly payments. Pffft, you are supposable wealthy and you cannot afford a $200 - $300 payment, I can even afford that. Only cheap penny pincher would not pay a monthly fee to have something. Oh another group I will have to educate all the rich people that buy their home with cash, God how cheap can you be I make a 10th of your income and I can afford a $600 house payment. After all only cheap penny pincher would not pay a monthly fee to have something. Oh and one more group, all those people that buy TVs. Ah come on are you too cheap to pay $15 a month to rent a center! Only cheap penny pinchers would not pay a monthly fee to have something. /sarcasm off
I'd go so far as to say that I have come to despise the people who fund the F2P movement. You are either a penny pinching free loader ($15 a month is almost trivial for the entertainment an MMO offers; even for a teenager) or you actually like paying to win. The former type provides the latter type a largish audience to witness the awesomeness that they paid for.
Nothing like a couple unsubstantiated conclusions to completely invalidate your entire post. How about the person who doesn't pay to win, but plays multiple MMOs at once and would rather not pay $75 a month on 5 subs. Yeah. A few years ago, that was me. I'd play one MMO a couple hours one weekend, during the week I might jump on a different MMO for a few hours, and the following week play on another MMO.
But not everyone can afford that sort of commitment, and I am lucky that I can. Or should say, could. Because now that some of my favorite games are f2p, I no longer have to pay $75 a month. That's smart for me, and good business sense for f2p games. Why? Because more people can now play MMOs, and drop a few bucks here and there to play. The economy of scale can boost the finances for f2p games. Case in point: I'd be playing Rift right now, but for the subscription. If it were f2p, I'd be playing. I don't find it compelling enough to drop my other subs, but it is fun and would drop a few bucks here and there to play occasionally.
I remember thinking I would pick this up when they added Rohan because then the game would be more flushed out and Rohan was my favorite from the books... I thought that would be years ago... Haha. Just checked and its still not added.
I remember thinking I would pick this up when they added Rohan because then the game would be more flushed out and Rohan was my favorite from the books... I thought that would be years ago... Haha. Just checked and its still not added.
Isengard is being added this fall so my guess is that Rohan, or at least part of it, may be in 2012. Since Rohan is such a massive part of the Middle Earth map there are rumors that it may take two expansions just to do all of Rohan, so 2012-2013 maybe.
Plus, depending on when the Hobbit movie releases, Rohan may be pushed back if Turbine has to push out the Hobbit areas of Northern Mirkwood, Misty Mountains, Laketown and such in time for the movies.
I'd go so far as to say that I have come to despise the people who fund the F2P movement. You are either a penny pinching free loader ($15 a month is almost trivial for the entertainment an MMO offers; even for a teenager) or you actually like paying to win. The former type provides the latter type a largish audience to witness the awesomeness that they paid for.
Or here is another thought as to why someone would like LOTRO freemium, they have money but not a lot of time and they do not see the financial sense of paying monthly for something (AKA renting) when you can buy it. Let’s look at LOTRO freemium at see what it shows us from this perspective.
If I started LOTRO today and I went the Freemium route it would have the following cost:
10,000 points for $100 – since points cost $50 for 5000 points.
These points would get me the following: Mines of Moria- 2495 points, Misty Mountains -695 points, North Downs – 595 points, Enedwaith – 695 points, Eregion – 695 points, Evendim – 595 points, Forochel – 595 points, Angmar – 595 points, Trollshaws – 595 points, currency cap – 495 points, 2 character slots added-1190 points, Auction house upgrade – 95 points.
This would leave me with 665 points, plus I would get points for playing the game and I could always buy another 5000 points so I have points waiting for future content expansions. So let just say I spent $150 and I have a total of 5665 points waiting on my account for future content releases. Oh and you are so right, buying these zones and account upgrades makes it so I am so paying to win.
Now let’s compare that to the P2P, that you so elegantly said only cheap people will not use.
Now if I did a subscription for LOTRO I would pay 119.88 a year if you pay for a year at a time, if you pay monthly it is $179.88. So if you only play for a short time the subscription is cheaper at least for the yearly, but if you want to keep an active account for an extended period of time then the picture starts to change drastically.
After two years without purchasing any new expansion, subscription paying yearly is at $239.76/paying monthly is at $359.76 and freemium is at $150.
After 3 years subscription paying yearly is at $359.64/paying monthly is at $539.64, and freemium is at $150.
Then to make things even more interesting if a paid for expansion comes out you have to add that to the total of your subscription cost, while with the Freemiuim and my 5665 points I can just add it without another penny spent.
I see know you are so right Mr. Financial wizard only someone really cheap would choose freemium over P2P. After all $359.64 over 3 years is so much of a better deal than $150. I am going to have to go on a crusade to educate all the accountants that have been telling people to buy instead of renting; they were so wrong thank you Mr. Financial wizard!
All the wealthy people I know that buy cars with cash, I am going to have to tell them how cheap they are for not getting a loan and not making monthly payments. Pffft, you are supposable wealthy and you cannot afford a $200 - $300 payment, I can even afford that. Only cheap penny pincher would not pay a monthly fee to have something. Oh another group I will have to educate all the rich people that buy their home with cash, God how cheap can you be I make a 10th of your income and I can afford a $600 house payment. After all only cheap penny pincher would not pay a monthly fee to have something. Oh and one more group, all those people that buy TVs. Ah come on are you too cheap to pay $15 a month to rent a center! Only cheap penny pinchers would not pay a monthly fee to have something. /sarcasm off
/reboot brain
First, it does sound like the model Turbine uses is better than some - I'll concede that and I posted with ignorance of the details of their arrangement.
Second, is it really a choice between buying and renting? I am completely in favour of buying, hence I think Anet with their B2P offer for both GW and GW2 is light years ahead of the rest of the genre. This is true value for money and I hope this catches on. So what is my problem? My problem is that the so-called buying option in LOTRO (or perhaps I should say DDO because I actually experienced that) comes with the pain of enduring the F2P environment where you are bombarded and manipulated.
Every time I died in DDO I was swiftly reminded of the health potions available for sale. Every time I logged on I was reminded of the sales of the month (or whatever it was).
And this was when I was subscribing.
So isn't it ACTUALLY a choice of renting (my subscription with Rift for example) and that is the end of it and I can just relax and play, or buying and buying more and bombarded with the possibility to buy more and more (LOTRO)?
I'll persist then in my opinion that F2P is the cheap and nasty option. You pay less but have to put up with all sorts of manipulation, to which *some* people succumb.
I'd go so far as to say that I have come to despise the people who fund the F2P movement. You are either a penny pinching free loader ($15 a month is almost trivial for the entertainment an MMO offers; even for a teenager) or you actually like paying to win. The former type provides the latter type a largish audience to witness the awesomeness that they paid for.
Nothing like a couple unsubstantiated conclusions to completely invalidate your entire post. How about the person who doesn't pay to win, but plays multiple MMOs at once and would rather not pay $75 a month on 5 subs. Yeah. A few years ago, that was me. I'd play one MMO a couple hours one weekend, during the week I might jump on a different MMO for a few hours, and the following week play on another MMO.
But not everyone can afford that sort of commitment, and I am lucky that I can. Or should say, could. Because now that some of my favorite games are f2p, I no longer have to pay $75 a month. That's smart for me, and good business sense for f2p games. Why? Because more people can now play MMOs, and drop a few bucks here and there to play. The economy of scale can boost the finances for f2p games. Case in point: I'd be playing Rift right now, but for the subscription. If it were f2p, I'd be playing. I don't find it compelling enough to drop my other subs, but it is fun and would drop a few bucks here and there to play occasionally.
Fair enough. Different strokes for different folks and all that. How on earth you play 5 MMOs at once is beyond me, and I'm fairly sure you are an oddity. However, point taken.
And yes, I understand the economy of scale.
My point is that dropping "a few bucks here and there to play" is precisely what the game is now engineered to get you to do, as much as possible without being overtly annoying enough to make you quit. This is the "hidden" cost.
You are all being duped. You *think* that you are winning out of this. But overall, in the long term, you are not.
LOTRO will crawl along and Rohan will be very slow in coming because it is not financially beneficial for the developers to produce content for their long term playerbase. Witness DDO where most of the new content is in the low to mid level ranges because they figured out that was where the money is.
Still happy?
And that is what will always be going on when they are making developer decisions. How do we get people to pay just a little bit more? What can we offer that will make us the most money?
I'll finish with explaining what I meant by pay to win. In PvE games like DDO and LOTRO it is more subtle than buying the uber armour that will enable you to pwn everyone else who doesn't buy the uber armour. In PvE winning means beating the dungeon and getting the loot. In DDO you can buy these little bells that raise the level of the loot in the chests. Isn't that fantastic! The dungeon level is too hard? Pffft, don't bother getting your act together. Just drop the challenge down but use the bell to get that nice loot. Fantastic eh? /sarcasm
Coincidentaly, this is the last day of my premium sub, as I canceled it. Once you hit 65 there isnt anything to do. And with the solo focus, no one is running groups.
There is a lot to do at 65....if you like grinding, PvMP and/or crafting.
And, there are plenty of people seeking groups. Sometimes it is just a matter of asking yourself and doing it by actaully ASKING and not simply inviting.
And while you can play LOTRO without spending a dime (including sub fee) you miss out on a lot of content if you so choose that route. There are some quests you can do but they are few.
If you play LOTRO and spend one dime on any part of it, then the game is not "free" or "freemium"...it is pay to play. I dare say that if LOTRO had no one spending money on the game or if few spent money on this game that it would shutter in short order. It is not free to play.
I dont like grinding, PvMP is meaningless, and crafting is useless. What am I supposed to buy with all my gold? Ive also asked for groups, and am in a medium kin. Even if I run groups, then what? Run them over and over for tokens? Thats fine if that entertains you guys, but it doesnt entertain me.
Comments
I completely agree with you.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
There is so little to do in it? Oh you are the guy who has never found a kin in Landroval and who never grouped and then complain there is not enough content at higher level? You are probably the only person I saw on every forum which complained about the community. Never wondered the problem could come from your side? and honest, if you don't like the game, which is perfectly fine, why log in anyway? Plenty of MMOs around.
For the guys here who says the game has became a cashcow, honestly, you see references to the store if you really want to see them on your screen. I have now 7000TP and used only a few ones for a few perks (Deed accelerators mostly). I completed all the Raids, so I'm positive you don't need any of the potions to complete anything in the game. (just to dispel complain fo Pay per Win that I hear around). If you choose to spend TP, fine with you but you do not need as a subbers to buy anything to enjoy the game.
If you don't like the F2P hybrid model, fine. But stop spreading lies unless you played the game in recent times.
Or here is another thought as to why someone would like LOTRO freemium, they have money but not a lot of time and they do not see the financial sense of paying monthly for something (AKA renting) when you can buy it. Let’s look at LOTRO freemium at see what it shows us from this perspective.
If I started LOTRO today and I went the Freemium route it would have the following cost:
10,000 points for $100 – since points cost $50 for 5000 points.
These points would get me the following: Mines of Moria- 2495 points, Misty Mountains -695 points, North Downs – 595 points, Enedwaith – 695 points, Eregion – 695 points, Evendim – 595 points, Forochel – 595 points, Angmar – 595 points, Trollshaws – 595 points, currency cap – 495 points, 2 character slots added-1190 points, Auction house upgrade – 95 points.
This would leave me with 665 points, plus I would get points for playing the game and I could always buy another 5000 points so I have points waiting for future content expansions. So let just say I spent $150 and I have a total of 5665 points waiting on my account for future content releases. Oh and you are so right, buying these zones and account upgrades makes it so I am so paying to win.
Now let’s compare that to the P2P, that you so elegantly said only cheap people will not use.
Now if I did a subscription for LOTRO I would pay 119.88 a year if you pay for a year at a time, if you pay monthly it is $179.88. So if you only play for a short time the subscription is cheaper at least for the yearly, but if you want to keep an active account for an extended period of time then the picture starts to change drastically.
After two years without purchasing any new expansion, subscription paying yearly is at $239.76/paying monthly is at $359.76 and freemium is at $150.
After 3 years subscription paying yearly is at $359.64/paying monthly is at $539.64, and freemium is at $150.
Then to make things even more interesting if a paid for expansion comes out you have to add that to the total of your subscription cost, while with the Freemiuim and my 5665 points I can just add it without another penny spent.
I see know you are so right Mr. Financial wizard only someone really cheap would choose freemium over P2P. After all $359.64 over 3 years is so much of a better deal than $150. I am going to have to go on a crusade to educate all the accountants that have been telling people to buy instead of renting; they were so wrong thank you Mr. Financial wizard!
All the wealthy people I know that buy cars with cash, I am going to have to tell them how cheap they are for not getting a loan and not making monthly payments. Pffft, you are supposable wealthy and you cannot afford a $200 - $300 payment, I can even afford that. Only cheap penny pincher would not pay a monthly fee to have something. Oh another group I will have to educate all the rich people that buy their home with cash, God how cheap can you be I make a 10th of your income and I can afford a $600 house payment. After all only cheap penny pincher would not pay a monthly fee to have something. Oh and one more group, all those people that buy TVs. Ah come on are you too cheap to pay $15 a month to rent a center! Only cheap penny pinchers would not pay a monthly fee to have something. /sarcasm off
/reboot brain
Nothing like a couple unsubstantiated conclusions to completely invalidate your entire post. How about the person who doesn't pay to win, but plays multiple MMOs at once and would rather not pay $75 a month on 5 subs. Yeah. A few years ago, that was me. I'd play one MMO a couple hours one weekend, during the week I might jump on a different MMO for a few hours, and the following week play on another MMO.
But not everyone can afford that sort of commitment, and I am lucky that I can. Or should say, could. Because now that some of my favorite games are f2p, I no longer have to pay $75 a month. That's smart for me, and good business sense for f2p games. Why? Because more people can now play MMOs, and drop a few bucks here and there to play. The economy of scale can boost the finances for f2p games. Case in point: I'd be playing Rift right now, but for the subscription. If it were f2p, I'd be playing. I don't find it compelling enough to drop my other subs, but it is fun and would drop a few bucks here and there to play occasionally.
When are they going to get to the east? Did they add Rohan yet at least?
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
I remember thinking I would pick this up when they added Rohan because then the game would be more flushed out and Rohan was my favorite from the books... I thought that would be years ago... Haha. Just checked and its still not added.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
Isengard is being added this fall so my guess is that Rohan, or at least part of it, may be in 2012. Since Rohan is such a massive part of the Middle Earth map there are rumors that it may take two expansions just to do all of Rohan, so 2012-2013 maybe.
Plus, depending on when the Hobbit movie releases, Rohan may be pushed back if Turbine has to push out the Hobbit areas of Northern Mirkwood, Misty Mountains, Laketown and such in time for the movies.
But those are my guesses.
First, it does sound like the model Turbine uses is better than some - I'll concede that and I posted with ignorance of the details of their arrangement.
Second, is it really a choice between buying and renting? I am completely in favour of buying, hence I think Anet with their B2P offer for both GW and GW2 is light years ahead of the rest of the genre. This is true value for money and I hope this catches on. So what is my problem? My problem is that the so-called buying option in LOTRO (or perhaps I should say DDO because I actually experienced that) comes with the pain of enduring the F2P environment where you are bombarded and manipulated.
Every time I died in DDO I was swiftly reminded of the health potions available for sale. Every time I logged on I was reminded of the sales of the month (or whatever it was).
And this was when I was subscribing.
So isn't it ACTUALLY a choice of renting (my subscription with Rift for example) and that is the end of it and I can just relax and play, or buying and buying more and bombarded with the possibility to buy more and more (LOTRO)?
I'll persist then in my opinion that F2P is the cheap and nasty option. You pay less but have to put up with all sorts of manipulation, to which *some* people succumb.
Fair enough. Different strokes for different folks and all that. How on earth you play 5 MMOs at once is beyond me, and I'm fairly sure you are an oddity. However, point taken.
And yes, I understand the economy of scale.
My point is that dropping "a few bucks here and there to play" is precisely what the game is now engineered to get you to do, as much as possible without being overtly annoying enough to make you quit. This is the "hidden" cost.
You are all being duped. You *think* that you are winning out of this. But overall, in the long term, you are not.
LOTRO will crawl along and Rohan will be very slow in coming because it is not financially beneficial for the developers to produce content for their long term playerbase. Witness DDO where most of the new content is in the low to mid level ranges because they figured out that was where the money is.
Still happy?
And that is what will always be going on when they are making developer decisions. How do we get people to pay just a little bit more? What can we offer that will make us the most money?
I'll finish with explaining what I meant by pay to win. In PvE games like DDO and LOTRO it is more subtle than buying the uber armour that will enable you to pwn everyone else who doesn't buy the uber armour. In PvE winning means beating the dungeon and getting the loot. In DDO you can buy these little bells that raise the level of the loot in the chests. Isn't that fantastic! The dungeon level is too hard? Pffft, don't bother getting your act together. Just drop the challenge down but use the bell to get that nice loot. Fantastic eh? /sarcasm
I dont like grinding, PvMP is meaningless, and crafting is useless. What am I supposed to buy with all my gold? Ive also asked for groups, and am in a medium kin. Even if I run groups, then what? Run them over and over for tokens? Thats fine if that entertains you guys, but it doesnt entertain me.