Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
About the Offical Review of EQ2 on this site
BarryManilow
Member UncommonPosts: 701
While I can see where the reviewer is coming from, I really cant agree with his opinion. I played alot of games from EQ to WoW, and EQ2 to me seems to be the 2nd best game off the start. City of Heros is my favorite from start, but its lack of content really destroyed the game for me. Unlike CoH, EQ2 has alot of content which is hard for a game that just hit the market with no expansions. It's crafting system is second to none and if you have the drive and patience it can be very rewarding experience. It's not dumbed down which makes high level crafters even more rare.
People are always comparing this game to either WoW or EQlive, and they totally miss the point. WoW is a totally different fantasy game that is geared for the PvP crowd and the casual gamer. Plus the fact you can play it on crappy systems allows those who cant afford top of the line machines a chance to play it. Nothing in common there with EQ2.
Also EQlive, at its current state has so much content from its multi-expansions cant even compare that with EQ2. When EQ1 hit the stores in 99, there were only 2 choices for people. It was either EQ1 or UO and at its current state at the time, UO was just unplayable with the ganking and player killing. So EQ was the only option people had. EQ was so full of bugs, it needed almost top notch Video cards at the time. I remember it taking me like 5-10 minutes to zone in EQ. I could not even get off the boat because I would still be zoning when the boat was at docks. I was basically stuck in there til a GM ported me off of it. It was a very tough game to play, the graphics were so so at best, lagged like hell, died alot, yet I still played it because it was my only option. If I had other options I would of left EQ1 in a heart beat for another online game. But there were no other choices so I stuck with it and eventually as the bugs started disappear, bought a new computer to run the game better, and the expansions started to add content to the empty world of Norrath I started to get hooked.
When people use fond memories and experiences to compare games, is when they really lose the point of the game. A game should stand on its own and leave those fond memories where they along in those games. Create new ones.
Comments
i am one of manny i think who are in limbo at the moment ..should i buy ..should i wait .. should i not buy ..
these reviews tip the scale over to one side alot more then some leet SOE sux kids
i wish i could find more serious reviews of this game. i mean how can you review it unless you have reached the end game .. i doubt the reviewer has come close to it .
im still holding my purchase thou.i belive from the voices on this board and others that SOE needs to implement a little better Solo capabillity to attract the Antisocial squad
- Actually, your wrong pirrg - En1gma
I love EQ2 aswell but the game does need PvP.
That is why I find most of these reviews of EQ2 laughable. They play the game for a week or two, and then the are "experts" on it. EQ2 has ALOT of content, and you cant even see in a few weeks of play. It's strength is not just its graphics (if you can afford top of the line computer) but in its content. You can't honestly say the game is good or bad in a few weeks of playing.
Sadly, i have to pretty much agree with the reviewer of the game. been playing for 2months and i just hit the wall. im starting to have trouble finding reasons to log in anymore....i played EQ1 for 3 years hardcore.
EQ2 is a good game, but once the shiny aura around it begins to fade, it's kinda dull. everything about it is all laid out for you, the linked mobs not pulling aggro from other mobs outside the groups, the linear character development, no PvP...i dunno.
I'm quite upset, i really really wanted to love this game...
A.K.A. Wrython Hellsong, lvl 31 Erudite Dirge -- Befallen
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Not just me then. I've reached 22nd as a beserker and i'm now finding i need groups for most of my quests, and not just a healing partner or maybe a nuker too but a whole group of six, and even solo quests at my level are beyond me. The problem is that once i am able to do them solo they will be worthless for xp and items. I loved the first 20 levels, but now it is a bit of a chore and like you i am logging in, running around, and logging back out. EQ1 had more staying power, and for soloers EQII is just not cutting it.
M.
Tsk tsk, yet another excluding Asheron's Call from the original picks. It released in 99 just as EQ did. I know, I played both back then
And I don't ever recall EQ being that bad shortly after launch. I ran on a pentium 1 233 very well, thats what I had. Generally the boat issues you describe were due to slow connection problems or computers that couldnt load the zone fast enough. I am not saying it didn't have its issues, but I surely don't recall it being bug ridden. Pre Kunark EQ was excessively stable once launch was ironed out, verrant was very slow about putting in patches to make sure they were completely ironed out before implementation. That was what brought me from UO to EQ, the service and higher level of quality by the developers.
- Fadeus Hawkwood
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Had a Pentium 1 200 with little ram. EQ was pure horror on my computer til I upgraded with a new one later on. Was mostly the lack of ram but it was expensive back then.
Yeah you are right about AC and I remember trying it but I had major graphic issues with it too that made the game totally unplayable, plus most of my friends were in EQ so I stuck with that.
05.01.05
I can NOT believe you guys beta testing & playing EQ (circa 1999 jan to march) on P1 200MHz ish cpu. Those P1 were like 1994 cpu, by 1999 the Piii 450 to 1GHz cpu were in retail, even the Pii from mid '97 to mid '98 were 233 to 450MHz. Anybody with a minimally decent gaming puter was trying to oc the Piii 700 past 1GHz and using the GF2 32MB gpu and was caught up in the pentium was so much beter than the athlon debate. You guys using 200MHz may have seen an upgrade from the orrig Pi 75MHz in '94 but by '99 few dedicated gamers were using anything less than a Piii 700MHz. Even the Athlon 500MHz to 1GHz were showing up at that time, much less the K6-3 400 and 500MHz. This was the time where many were still using 8MB mobo integrated gpu, and were complaining at spending near $200 for a seperate DX7 gpu (GF2 vs R7500.)
Remember this was the time of, what, DX5 and the first DX6 gpu were 3D Rage & the Riva tnt (remember all that seperate 2D & 3D vs integrated gpu & 8 vs 30 MILLION transister gpu hype while the Pi was about a 7M transister device and the Piii was 47M!!) EQ's initial problems was it's attempt to shift into the DX7 api (application programming interface overview ) from it's default DX5 and having to settle using DX6 for years while trying new code in the test server. (Those of us that actually helped on test server got our systems stable with DX6 and DX7 vs you guys that stayed with the default DX5 that installed with the orrig EQ.)
AC retailed in Nov 1999 (UO in sept '97,) so there certainly were options to EQ and the AC's vast seamless world forced SOE to realistically start getting serious about EQ2 back in early 2000 with Trost (by the end of 2000 they had the core designs of EQ2 fixed & the writing was on the wall for the oust for Brad & Steve! )
Edit
<shrugs> so don't beleive it, I don't care...
- Fadeus Hawkwood
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Let me offer my apologies for not responding sooner. I just came across this thread and would like to address some of the concerns expressed within. I will try to get them in today as best I can.
I did respond in the News Discussion thread, but neglected to check the EQII boards. My bad.
-----
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
MMORPG.com Staff
-----
Old timer.
Thanks for the comments, Barry. I will do my best to respond.
We don't disagree on either point. I think SOE has done a fantastic job with the crafting engine on EQII. I wish more games took crafting this seriously. I even spoke about this in the review. The idea that high quality crafted furniture can reduce rent payments is brilliant. It gives people a reason to purchase crafted items for reasons other than looks. Also, the networking aspect of crafting (meaning that higher levels of crafting require items from other types of crafters) works well within the crafting guild framework.
Content is also very heavy. There are numerous quests and no player can complain that they can't find one. I didn't like the idea of a citizenship quest, but the rest I thought were great. You won't find a criticism in my review for lack of content in EQII.
While there are comparisons to the original EQ in my review and some generalizations regarding other persistent worlds as a whole, there is not a single reference to World of Warcraft in the piece. I did not even start playing WoW until after I began the EQII review and had my thoughts already organized.
As far as the ability to use "crappy systems," the problem I had with EQII's heavy HW reqs was not that they were set high, but that systems well within the specs still have performance issues. If EQII's target is the Alienware set alone, then that's their prerogative, but they have given minimum specs of PIII 1.0 GHz, 512 RAM, 64MB 3D video. In my experience with EQII, there is no way the game will run with any kind of legitimate performance on a machine with those specs. But no one runs the minimum, right? Fair enough, but even on my system (P4 2.8GHz, 1GB RAM geForce 5200 128) it was choppy. I eventually turned enough things off to get it tolerable, but I think my system is certainly respectable and if I have to crank everything down, then a lot of other players will, too.
This is a problem in my opinion, but many people don't have an issue with it. I, for one, like to spend my time in a MMORPG playing the game, not tweaking graphics settings and waiting to zone. This is why I made the criticisms that I did. Those who prefer high quality graphic detail over other things and will pay to get it may not consider this criticism valid. It is strictly my opinion.
I did not have the same experience in EQ. I played the game for 2 years and loved it. The only time I ran into graphics issues was after the Luclin expansion when the new graphics were introduced. I quit shortly thereafter, so it didn't really bother me all that much.
A valid point, but my opinions are not based solely on my nostalgia for EQ. I assure you that my review was directed at EQII on its own. In fact, if you read the last paragraph of the piece, you'll find I make that exact point.
I think you may be referring to my criticism of the game not being fun. I do mention EQ in that part of the review, but it is not to say, "it's not fun because it's not like EQ." On the contrary. I think it improves on EQ in many ways, but my mentioning EQ was specifically a point of reference for that intangible aspect of it (and UO and AC1 and others) that make it so addictive. Many people have played EQ and know what I mean without me being able to put it into words.
EQII doesn't have to dupe EQ to get that. If SOE was trying to copy EQ's addictiveness, they have failed IMO. The fact is that I wanted very much for the game to be fun, but it never was really. I ran quests and crafted and grouped and raided dungeons, but I never got excited about the next play session. That's what is missing in EQII, as I see it, and that's why the criticism.
-----
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
MMORPG.com Staff
-----
Old timer.
Sorry you feel that way. I can assure you that I went into this review with an open mind. If anything, I was a bit biased toward EQII. I even bought the pre-order kit because my intention was to make it my next full-time game. My criticisms were based solely on my experience within the game and not on my personal opinion of SOE or some other game. It's a fair review and I stand by it.
For someone who reviews games for a living, this may be possible, but it's just not practical for me or most volunteer reviewers. I doubt you'll find many reviews of EQII or other newly released games in which the reviewer played a character all the way to the end. For most people this is a task that takes months. Asking a reviewer to accomplish that before he forms an opinion is unreasonable.
I don't know about antisocial, but EQII does need more solo content. Players can solo up to about 13 or 14. Beyond that, it's an arduous journey for the solo player. I think the game needs to strike a better balance between solo and group play. As it is now, it is heavily group-focused.
-----
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
MMORPG.com Staff
-----
Old timer.
I do not claim to be an expert on EQII. I am merely giving my opinion after a period of play. As I said in the previous post, it is unreasonable to expect a reviewer to play to the end game and only then have a legitimate opinion. If that were the standard, then your opinion would be just as moot. I think you have a right to your views on the game and to express them here, whether or not you have reached the "end of the game."
Time and RL only permit me so much playing before submitting a review. I would like to be able to take every game I review and play it to its conclusion, but that just cannot be done. As such, I try to offer as valid a criticism as I can given the constraints under which I must work. This is true for most reviewers, the exception being those who are lucky enough to make a living reviewing games.
-----
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
MMORPG.com Staff
-----
Old timer.
As did I. I know there are some people out there who think I have some sort of bias against EQII and SOE, but I can assure you I don't. I gave the game high marks in many areas, but just didn't find it fun overall, and that's the bottom line as to whether I'll stick with it.
-----
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
MMORPG.com Staff
-----
Old timer.
Very well said Koltrane. It is refreshing to see a review by someone who actually has reasons/facts to back up their opinions. I also agree it is unreasonable to think a reviewer should get to the end game before they can review it. That's really asking a lot and by the time they got there it would a bit pointless anyhow beacuse the game would have been out for a long while.
As of now I still enjoy the game a lot. I'm a little over two months in and it is still very enjoyable to play. That said, I can see how some people wouldn't have a whole lot of "fun" playing this game. IMO it really is a niche game so if you like it, you'll have a blast. If you don't, that's probably not going to change no matter how long you play.
All in all I found the review to be very fair and informative. While I don't agree with it not being fun, that is just a matter of tatste I suppose.
If you played EQ in the beginning, it was either you first MMORPG or one of the first, so a very little bit of content went a long way. Being an avid MMORPG player since day one of UO, I now that I have evolved and what made me happy 5 years ago, is quite insufficient today.
After fooling around with EQ II and WoW in December, I noticed that I don`t have the patience for new games anymore, and will wait a few month (possibly to the first expansion) and then give them another try. But on the other hand I can recognize that it must be great to be a newbie today, because both EQ II and WoW are very nice games with great systems, once they get a little fat on their bones they should be a lot of fun.
Like i mentioned before I honestly thought the review score were right simply because as an old mmorpg player that been around i seen thru the hype of WoW and EQ2 ,and know that both this games have a lot of hype riding on them more then what they had to offer.
They are both good mmorpg(hey they could have been junk) but i wil not give any of them more then 80%.
EQ2 strongpoint is that it has taken a formula from old EQ.That is make some features and content only start kicking in post 30s.
I myself found i actually started to enjoy the game more and have more to do with my guild when we hit the big 40.
Take my friend's list in my 20s i lost a few i never saw again(dunno if they made new characters or quit).However from my 30 to 40 I have not lost a single friend at ALL.
Thanks for the kind words Saigon. I was hoping to dispel the idea that I am a WoW fanboi or have an axe to grind with SOE. I hope I've at least made my position a little clearer.
There's only so much a reviewer, even a full-time reviewer, can do. Even if I were able to take a character to the top level, it would still only give me a perspective through that race/class. Someone would likely then complain that I didn't play several races and classes to get a better feel of the overall game. Therefore you just have to strike out and do your best.
I've also heard people say things like, "the game doesn't really get fun until level 35, so you didn't play long enough to get to the really fun stuff." That may be true, but if a game is drudgery until the upper levels, what incentive is there to work to get there? The game should be fun at all levels, at least IMHO.
Absolutely, and that's a large part of what a review is. After the facts are laid out, it comes down to personal preference. There are obviously a lot of people who love this game. While it doesn't seem to be garnering the numbers that EQ did (and still does), it's certainly a successful game, at least for now. The true test will come in a few months to see if subscribership drops after the free period or not.
I don't think EQ2 will see a drop on the order of AC2 or some others. I think it will remain a healthy and robust game, but I do think they need to fix a few things.
-----
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
MMORPG.com Staff
-----
Old timer.
There are only a couple things about the review that really bother me. Otherwise, it's your opinion, and that's fine.
It does bother me that your statement concerning system requirements is so off the mark. It could be that this review is the only thing on this site that many people researching the game will read, and that really does leave an incorrect impression. You know as well as I do that you don't need anything approaching a $5,000 system to get a remarkable looking game. Hell, I don't even know anyone who has a $5,000 setup, and I know people running close to max. How in the world do you even make a $5,000 setup lol - I am currently thinking about making myself a new kickass system and pricing components, and what I could get with $1500 worth of goodies would damn near run NASA
. But for now I am still running it on a 2.4, 1 gig, with a 4200ti w/64 megs, and frankly it runs and looks really good. I do get lag and choppiness in the more graphics intensive city zones and in some dungeon areas, but not that bad really ... no worse than I STILL get in POK in EQ1 
Not enough to bother me, anyway. So I will probably upgrade the graphics card one of these days, but it's hardly pressing. And, in MY opinion - yes it's just an opinion - the game looks really dang good and runs well on the settings I can use efficiently right now.
Yes we all know by now that the graphics engine is intentionally designed to provide more as systems improve over time (a good thing, no?), but the simple reality is that the game works and looks very good right now on routine systems (not ye old Packard Bell Walmart setup). In sum, I feel your assessment of system requirements leaves readers with a very wrong impression.
The other thing that bothers me I guess is that you do seem to be reviewing it from an EQ1 perspective. A good percentage of the gamers I know are all running around bemoaning whether it will ever be possible to duplicate the fantastic experience we had there. No matter which game they try - including ALL of them out there - nothing seems to do that. Yeah, maybe that's a problem for many of us ... it simply may not be possible to duplicate that. Or maybe it's just people haven't given some of the games enough time ... in retrospect, I don't think I hit full blown ecstatic addiction in EQ1 until I had quite a lot of time into the game and we had a big terrific guild going, blah blah blah. It was a lot of factors that resulted in that unique, wonderful experience, and it took a lot of time. Maybe it's just way too soon to know whether EQ2, or WOW, or anything else for that matter, will ultimately provide that kind of high quality long-term experience. In sum, it would be better to try to detach and just review each game in a vacuum as much as possible, rather than immediately asking whether it measure up to whatever. There's just no way you can know that yet.
Well like I said I think koltrane did not do such a bad job.However i noticed a few sites and reviews seems to bash EQ2 for using a engine that is very intense.
True a FX5200 will not cut it but a $120 or so R9600xt runs the game fine and smooth and looks gorgerous and realistic.
So really there is no alienware system needed.
I own a R9800pro and recently got a new system build with a X800xt pci-e(yeah i am broke now
) and by the time i raised my setting i nearly fainted at how advanced this engine is and how the world looks so real life as if i was almost there.
Even on my R9800 it did look amazing but now its only something you need to see for yoursel.
But really like all technology and advancement must we give negative points for raising the bar .
If games keep getting bashed for trying to raise the bar we will end up with old engines for a long time.
As it is another mmorpg came out recently using an engine that is not grounds breaking but it permitted easy running on lower specs and got positive points for that.
In 10 years i would like to see graphics that almost look like real life pictures.But if we keep bashing every mmorpg that tries to push the technology and show us what today's technology can do because it cannot run on older systems then no one will do it.
If i was a developer i simply go with old engines get better sales and better reviews then risk the negative reviews .
This is just my view.We need to encourage advancement espically since EQ2 actually made it work fine and run smoothly .Its not like they used the technology and it came out very buggy and crashed every 5 mins.
Koltrane did not say it was running choppy on a Ti4200 (rather old card now), he said it was running choppy even with recommended system. It obviously is a downer.
Of course, a revolutionnary graphic engine, built to scale over generations of new hardware sounds like a good feature! But what if half the clients are running poorly now? Why should we have to wait until a year (or more) from now, to get it to run properly? They had advertise that the higher your system specs would be, the more eye candy you would be able to experience. But the fact is, it is not only an eye candy issue, it is a playability issue right now. The game lags bad in cities if you have only 512 MB of Ram, for example. And it still lags a bit with 1 GB. So it's a downer.
As for comparing with EQ1, well, you have to compare EQ2 to something, some game. It is a way to help people understand the content in the game, even though they haven't played it yet, possibly.
And it's not just about good memories and kick ass guild full of good friends. Comparisons can be made with EQ1, who had a great variety of zones, flavored with the cultural essence of the local race. It is missing from EQ2, I believe, and only shows in flavors here: the good side and the evil side.
I believe it could have worked anyway, but I truly feel SOE rushed the game into market, just to beat others to the mark. And they weren't ready. The game is stable, but not so fun. It is rather bland in many areas. It feels uninspired, and that's another big downer. I hope they will be able to improve it over the next few expansion. It is possible, just look at the 10+ expansions they made for EQ1.