Originally posted by Anofalye Selling virtual stuff for real stuff in return is immoral, I dont care what the law say on this and only a complete jerk will argue over this. Selling stuff that dont exist IS immoral.
So now it's immoral? Oh c'mon. Quit pulling stuff outta your ass. That's like saying, "Ganking is immoral."
There is no cheating involved, people pay what they get for. They wanna pay for the time spent to get those virtual, pixelated items. So be it. Stupid maybe. Immoral? No. Try looking up the word.
Death is not to fear; for it is not the end, but rather the beginning on the road to eternity.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
I believe what this has turned into is a discussion about who gets more out of life. Somone who loves playing games gets more out of it. Somone who loves traveling gets more out of that.
One that that is in fact, ridiculous as noted in an earlier post, is that how much money you make in no way shape or form represents the value or worth of an activity. Bragging about how many accounts you sold or how much in-game currency you sell does not convince anyone that the gaming lifestyle is anymore rewarding that one outside of it.
For example: I'm a high school senior. I work part time at a Best Western. I make more money then you do playing video games. That has nothing to do with which activity deserves more prestiege.
I think this is going to be my last post on these forums. They bring out the worst in me and most who use them. There is no discussion just the formula; Opinion>Personal Attack>Counter Attack>Slight Progression on topic>Personal attack on the progressor>Retalitation>* and so on an so forth. Im just gonna go and play the games. Cheers folks.
Y!PP: Captain Drumunki Screaming Eels Lord of the Flag of Convenience
oRO: Kahyr Swordsman LVL 50 No Guild
Y!PP: Captain Drumunki Screaming Eels Lord of the Flag of Convenience
Originally posted by seykaldiss I think this is going to be my last post on these forums. They bring out the worst in me and most who use them. There is no discussion just the formula; Opinion>Personal Attack>Counter Attack>Slight Progression on topic>Personal attack on the progressor>Retalitation>* and so on an so forth. Im just gonna go and play the games. Cheers folks.Y!PP: Captain Drumunki Screaming Eels Lord of the Flag of ConvenienceoRO: Kahyr Swordsman LVL 50 No Guild
Originally posted by Copeland To all those people who call hardcore gamers losers... Do you even understand why hardcore gamers are hardcore gamers? Most hardcore gamers make more money playing games than you do working. If you think it feels like work and takes the fun out of the game your wrong lol. I play games all the time. I play almost 24/7. I play to have fun. I can also easily build a retirement fund off these games and i dont even try to make money. Hardcore gamers are the heart and soul of mmorpgs. These are the people that lead your raids. These are the people that find the best spots to hunt. These are the people that discover the new recipes. Without the hardcore gamers you'd find your game world much less friendly. This doesnt mean the hardcore gamer is a friendly breed but what they do for the whole community does make the game more friendly. We can argue ethics or get off on some morals tangent about being anti social in life but why? People should do what makes them happy. If people are happy sitting at a desk playing games why should we look down on them for that choice? Why is it more acceptable to live at a bar than it is to live online? Clearly society hasn't caught on to the idea that being social online is as acceptable as being social irl. Personally i prefer my friends from australia, germany, belgium, england, japan, korea and brazil over the local bar sluts. I feel they give me a better perspective of the world than the dealer that hangs out at the club pushing x. To sum up i think people who look down at hardcore gamers are narrow minded idiots...
pk this post is conpletely wrong u say that we wouldent be able to find this stuff without hardcore gamers is wrong if its in the game some1 will figure it out and they dont have to be a hardcore gamer to stumble apon new things or a good spot o level hell i found out good spots in DaoC and im not a hardcore gamer so i dont know why u think hard core gamers discover everything
Originally posted by Copeland So are professional chess players losers too? Does Kasparov have no life because he sits analyzing chess games for hours on end? Do professional golfers have no life because they spend 10 hours a day practicing putting or swinging? I suppose anyone who spends most of their time doing one thing has their head up their ass and if they do something that you enjoy but make money off it they must be evil.But i bet if i wrote a song about my bitches sippin on my 40 and how i like to grind them then beat'm i'd be your hero and you'd give me your money?Or maybe i could put a ball through a hoop 40 times in one game and even though i raped women you'd still buy tickets to come see me play.Wonder whats wrong with society.. reallyWithout buyers there are no sellers...
All flames aside, you really are ridiculous. Who brings obscure refrences such as rap music or professional basketball into the topic of playing games for money?
Originally posted by sqwiggins Originally posted by Copeland To all those people who call hardcore gamers losers... Do you even understand why hardcore gamers are hardcore gamers? Most hardcore gamers make more money playing games than you do working. If you think it feels like work and takes the fun out of the game your wrong lol. I play games all the time. I play almost 24/7. I play to have fun. I can also easily build a retirement fund off these games and i dont even try to make money. Hardcore gamers are the heart and soul of mmorpgs. These are the people that lead your raids. These are the people that find the best spots to hunt. These are the people that discover the new recipes. Without the hardcore gamers you'd find your game world much less friendly. This doesnt mean the hardcore gamer is a friendly breed but what they do for the whole community does make the game more friendly. We can argue ethics or get off on some morals tangent about being anti social in life but why? People should do what makes them happy. If people are happy sitting at a desk playing games why should we look down on them for that choice? Why is it more acceptable to live at a bar than it is to live online? Clearly society hasn't caught on to the idea that being social online is as acceptable as being social irl. Personally i prefer my friends from australia, germany, belgium, england, japan, korea and brazil over the local bar sluts. I feel they give me a better perspective of the world than the dealer that hangs out at the club pushing x. To sum up i think people who look down at hardcore gamers are narrow minded idiots... pk this post is conpletely wrong u say that we wouldent be able to find this stuff without hardcore gamers is wrong if its in the game some1 will figure it out and they dont have to be a hardcore gamer to stumble apon new things or a good spot o level hell i found out good spots in DaoC and im not a hardcore gamer so i dont know why u think hard core gamers discover everythinghope some1 reads this
Where did i ever say you wouldnt be able to? If you can read as good as you can spell then i understand your lack of comprehension.
Originally posted by Xzaro Originally posted by Copeland Originally posted by Anofalye Most hardcores players dont make money from playing games.
If you deem to associate your ''ethic'' to all hardcores, get lost noob! - "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
Most of the ones i know do in fact make money.. Its really hard not to.
Sorry, I don't think every hardcore gamer out there breaks the rules.
Originally posted by Anofalye Most hardcores players dont make money from playing games.
If you deem to associate your ''ethic'' to all hardcores, get lost noob!
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
Most of the ones i know do in fact make money.. Its really hard not to.
Sorry, I don't think every hardcore gamer out there breaks the rules.
quoted wrong post lol
You say MOST, I am not the person about every, but when you make a dumb generalisation with most that include me and many others,
I only feel there is 1 fool, not a sorry bunch like you state in the other post.
You make attacking generalisation at the expense of ''most'' hardcores, then you insult everyone indirectly. Sorry bunch.
Get lost!
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Change hardcores for: earning a living from games, and then I wont care.
The most hardcores players dont make money from this.
''Professionnal'' players dont make fun, they work for sport, their health problems show it, the same with folks that sell stuff, they work inside the games, they dont play it. However when you say ''most hardcores'' work instead of playing, in all honesty,
Get lost once more!
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
This post was primarily about people attacking others for being hardcore gamers. I was never trying to justify breaking the rules. Some games do in fact allow you to profit from playing them. Its both allowed and facilitated. Selling virtual property for real money is more of a debate in sublogic. When does the object become real? I'm not here to defend what i do. Most of the time i'm a gamer just like you but if i happen to make 10k a year all the sudden i'm a bad guy lol. The fact is people are too judgemental. I'm fine with who i am. Most hardcore gamers play so much because its what they enjoy. To sit in judgement and think that your lifestyle is the better one is pretty egotistical.
Don't get me wrong i'm against the botters who load up 10 pc's with macro's and use every exploit they can to squeeze as much money out of the game as possible. I too would like to see these people burn in hell. But the fact also remains that this is a Billion dollar business so somebody is buying and encouraging people to do it.
Originally posted by Anofalye You should re-phrase at the very least.
Change hardcores for: earning a living from games, and then I wont care.
The most hardcores players dont make money from this.
''Professionnal'' players dont make fun, they work for sport, their health problems show it, the same with folks that sell stuff, they work inside the games, they dont play it. However when you say ''most hardcores'' work instead of playing, in all honesty,
Get lost once more!- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
No because i am hardcore i dont earn a "living" off games. I could though and "most" hardcores do make money. And i never said it was work did i? i said if you think its work guess again. I play because i enjoy the game. I enjoy helping out casual players as well. That doesnt mean i've never dumped 100k plat to IGE for $60. Most of the people i know at some point either have or will dump currency. There is no reason to differentiate between style of games.. a game is a game. entertainment is entertainment. People who buy plat so they can enjoy the game are no different that people who buy the tickets so they can enjoy the game. The only difference is really in the abilities it takes to play the game.
I'm trying not to generalize really. I know not every hardcore gamer is selling plat. We need to seperate hardcore gamers who sell an abundance of plat from the botters who exploit. There is a difference.
No, but when you do any action that may ruin my gameplay, then you are indeed a bad guy.
If you make a generalisation about hardcore selling stuff, you pissing me and you are the person who come and get me off my quiet place. I dont mind that much whatever you do, but when you implie that most hardcores sell stuff, you are screwing with me badly.
Whenever someone do something that encourage enforcing lame stuff and ruining my game experience, I am piss and that someone is a bad person. If you accept to do something boring to make cash, and that something is why a company dont evolve and keep thinking this or that is good and it ruin my fun, I am pissed. I want to play and make fun, and if someone is selling items that I will not buy and that are boring to get, they are freaking pissing me because folks will buy it and the company will keep it this way, all at the expense of the fun!
As long as folks making money dont mess with fun, I dont care, but when selling items justify the enforcing of boring stuff, they freaking piss me. If all solo uberness was earned through soloing, it would not be an issue, but since it is not and since some folks buy stuff and the companies think their system is fine and fun, they are doing it at the expense of fun and I bicth!
As long as someone will buy 1 item that is earned in another field that the devs enforce(like better gear throught raiding) and then they are good in soloing, I will be piss, because they are spoiling the fun of the game. I need to either raid and be miserable instead of making fun, or buying the items, both are unacceptable and folks selling items over it encourage that freaking lame system that destroy the fun!
Thereby making money that way is immoral and I will bitch. If they sell stuff that are not breaking those gameplay styles, I cant care less, if a soloer buy from a soloer, I cant care less. If a raider buy from a raider, I cant care less. If a soloer buy from a raider, I bitch at the lame system and the whores who encourage it.
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Anofalye No, but when you do any action that may ruin my gameplay, then you are indeed a bad guy.
If you make a generalisation about hardcore selling stuff, you pissing me and you are the person who come and get me off my quiet place. I dont mind that much whatever you do, but when you implie that most hardcores sell stuff, you are screwing with me badly.
Whenever someone do something that encourage enforcing lame stuff and ruining my game experience, I am piss and that someone is a bad person. If you accept to do something boring to make cash, and that something is why a company dont evolve and keep thinking this or that is good and it ruin my fun, I am pissed. I want to play and make fun, and if someone is selling items that I will not buy and that are boring to get, they are freaking pissing me because folks will buy it and the company will keep it this way, all at the expense of the fun!
As long as folks making money dont mess with fun, I dont care, but when selling items justify the enforcing of boring stuff, they freaking piss me. If all solo uberness was earned through soloing, it would not be an issue, but since it is not and since some folks buy stuff and the companies think their system is fine and fun, they are doing it at the expense of fun and I bicth!
As long as someone will buy 1 item that is earned in another field that the devs enforce(like better gear throught raiding) and then they are good in soloing, I will be piss, because they are spoiling the fun of the game. I need to either raid and be miserable instead of making fun, or buying the items, both are unacceptable and folks selling items over it encourage that freaking lame system that destroy the fun!
Thereby making money that way is immoral and I will bitch. If they sell stuff that are not breaking those gameplay styles, I cant care less, if a soloer buy from a soloer, I cant care less. If a raider buy from a raider, I cant care less. If a soloer buy from a raider, I bitch at the lame system and the whores who encourage it.- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
Once again this post was never about people playing the game to make money. This post is about people who generalize hardcore gamers as lifeless. The whole money thing was taken out of context and hijacked for flaming purposes. Please re-read the original post and try to comprehend what its saying.
Originally posted by Copeland So are professional chess players losers too? Does Kasparov have no life because he sits analyzing chess games for hours on end? Do professional golfers have no life because they spend 10 hours a day practicing putting or swinging? I suppose anyone who spends most of their time doing one thing has their head up their ass and if they do something that you enjoy but make money off it they must be evil. But i bet if i wrote a song about my bitches sippin on my 40 and how i like to grind them then beat'm i'd be your hero and you'd give me your money? Or maybe i could put a ball through a hoop 40 times in one game and even though i raped women you'd still buy tickets to come see me play. Wonder whats wrong with society.. really Without buyers there are no sellers...
kinda sad, but it is completly true, ohh discordia...
I would like to commend the original poster for having the nerve to post this.
He's right of course. Hardcore gamers are NOT the cause of all that's bad in MMO's, just the opposite. Its hardcore gamers that blaze trails and find new areas. It's hardcore gamers that create new tactics, both solo and team, it's hardcore gamers that lead raids, and participate in them, opening the door for the regular guy to actually see a dragon, and maybe get a shot at dragon loot.
For every person who sells virtual goods, there's also a buyer. Every time someone dumps 100k plat on the market, someone else in the world is walking away a happy camperr. That person can then take that 100k and skip the whole rats/bats/rusty weapons stage of the game and concentrate on learning tactics instead of looting rat dung.
The difference between a newbie and a veteran is, the veteran can give himself a modest fund, and be level 10 in a couple of hours with all their spells and appropriate gear, while the newbie is still busy looting small rotents to fund their cloth armor collection.
The newbie stage was fun the FIRST time. After that it was hell. Do you expect ppl to go through that every time they want to try a different type of toon?
Companies like sony want you to spend 5 hours looting bat schit, so you can spend the next 2 years subscribed to their game and paying for expansions, whereas if you're smart, you can plunk down 50 bucks and skip the boring crap, and fast forward to the fun parts of the game.
Now, all that having been said...
I think there IS value and benefit to having a life outside of video games.
First of all, sitting in a computer chair all day is not healthy. Being without meaningful social relationshps is not healthy. Being without sunlight is not healthy. Not getting enough exercise is not healthy. Not getting enough sex is not healthy. Being in front of the radiation from the monitor is not healthy.
And last but not least, having a jaded hardcore computer gamer mindset is not healthy.
I wouldn't be surprised if you had severe bouts of depression from your biologically detrimental way of life.
I too spend WAAAAAAY too much time playing video games, but I go out once in a while, and I exercise as much as I get the willpower too.
The thing that concerns me most is the radiation from the monitor, I'm looking into getting a low rad model, I just dont think this thing is healthy to look at for long periods of time.
Originally posted by Copeland um basketball players play games for money.
but there doing somthing active they have to go to practice so if your comparing a basketball player to a gamer there is nothing to compare basketball players are active gamers are not i am saying this and i am a gamer but i play basketball its much harder playing somthing active in real life where there are penalties for mistakes in a game if you die you lose xp OH NO! what will i do go kill more things to get it back i dont know how you are trying to compare these to things what were you thinking
Originally posted by fizzle32 I would like to commend the original poster for having the nerve to post this.He's right of course. Hardcore gamers are NOT the cause of all that's bad in MMO's, just the opposite. Its hardcore gamers that blaze trails and find new areas. It's hardcore gamers that create new tactics, both solo and team, it's hardcore gamers that lead raids, and participate in them, opening the door for the regular guy to actually see a dragon, and maybe get a shot at dragon loot.For every person who sells virtual goods, there's also a buyer. Every time someone dumps 100k plat on the market, someone else in the world is walking away a happy camperr. That person can then take that 100k and skip the whole rats/bats/rusty weapons stage of the game and concentrate on learning tactics instead of looting rat dung.The difference between a newbie and a veteran is, the veteran can give himself a modest fund, and be level 10 in a couple of hours with all their spells and appropriate gear, while the newbie is still busy looting small rotents to fund their cloth armor collection.The newbie stage was fun the FIRST time. After that it was hell. Do you expect ppl to go through that every time they want to try a different type of toon?Companies like sony want you to spend 5 hours looting bat schit, so you can spend the next 2 years subscribed to their game and paying for expansions, whereas if you're smart, you can plunk down 50 bucks and skip the boring crap, and fast forward to the fun parts of the game. Now, all that having been said...I think there IS value and benefit to having a life outside of video games.First of all, sitting in a computer chair all day is not healthy. Being without meaningful social relationshps is not healthy. Being without sunlight is not healthy. Not getting enough exercise is not healthy. Not getting enough sex is not healthy. Being in front of the radiation from the monitor is not healthy.And last but not least, having a jaded hardcore computer gamer mindset is not healthy.I wouldn't be surprised if you had severe bouts of depression from your biologically detrimental way of life.I too spend WAAAAAAY too much time playing video games, but I go out once in a while, and I exercise as much as I get the willpower too.The thing that concerns me most is the radiation from the monitor, I'm looking into getting a low rad model, I just dont think this thing is healthy to look at for long periods of time.Good luck to ya.
I don't see how people can give Copeland a hard time. Personally, I respect him for having a passion for games and not being afraid to stand behind his beliefs. Passions come in all forms of life. Some people like sports, travelling, hunting, scuba diving, reading, writing, and yes playing games. Just because an internet game is not old fashioned and something you can share with your relatives of the past doesn't mean it's not a reasonable hobby or passion to have. It is shallow-minded to think otherwise.
This is all coming from a casual gamer, by the way. But I do like games
I think I will put in my 2 cents worth (and it's not about the selling virtual stuff issue!).
I don't have any personal grudges against hardcore gamers. IMO, they have more experience in playing the game, and in return, know much about gameplay balance issues. They understood the mechanics and gaming aspects of the game, and thus gives them an advantage to play the game much faster than everyone else. Not to mean that they use some sort of cheats or bugs to play the game (which entirely defeats the purpose of playing it for fun, which is the basic reason for hardcore gamers), but because they knew the game so well, they're able to play the game and ascend to the next level much faster. It's like playing chess: the more you know how to play the game, the better you can formulate strategies or plans to defeat the opponent.
I think the misconception arise when it seems that casual gamers, who are unable to catch up with the hardcore gamers one-on-one, points out to some of the flaws (either behaviourial or hygiene) to degenerate them. Also, they play on the fear of [insert Latinized word here] --> (I dunno what it's called for fear of the other party using their advantage (i.e. the extensive knowledge of the game) to beat you up one-on-one) from other casual gamers to support their cause (and fuel hatred) against hardcore gamers.
IMO, dealing with hardcore gamers is like dealing with the World Master Chess champions. It's a matter of playing the game your own way vs. playing the game by forcing others to play the game your way. There's a difference.
On a personal level, I do appreciate their presence, I respect what they loved for. However, there will be certain individuals I would back off (well, due to, e.g. hygiene), but that's because of their lifestyle. For their passion, well, what they're passionate about is their business. They're just normal gamers that's all.
Regarding the selling of virtual items, I think this one is agreeable that it's illegal. Even hardcore gamers will agree on that.
Copeland, i'm curioius but what games do you play that you make a profit off of that 'allow' it?
As far as i know, 90% of them dont, or at the very least frown upon selling the virtual items for RL cash. And i'm assuming the few that do are probably so dead that the market for those items arent nearly as easy to make money as the ones that have it against their TOS.
I'd also be embarressed to call that type of lifestyle a living. I know you said thats not what you do or your only income, but to tell my parents or friends thats how i make a living would be very embaressing.
Comments
So now it's immoral? Oh c'mon. Quit pulling stuff outta your ass. That's like saying, "Ganking is immoral."
There is no cheating involved, people pay what they get for. They wanna pay for the time spent to get those virtual, pixelated items. So be it. Stupid maybe. Immoral? No. Try looking up the word.
Death is not to fear; for it is not the end, but rather the beginning on the road to eternity.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
hope some1 reads this
Allow me to digress from the flames here...
I believe what this has turned into is a discussion about who gets more out of life. Somone who loves playing games gets more out of it. Somone who loves traveling gets more out of that.
One that that is in fact, ridiculous as noted in an earlier post, is that how much money you make in no way shape or form represents the value or worth of an activity. Bragging about how many accounts you sold or how much in-game currency you sell does not convince anyone that the gaming lifestyle is anymore rewarding that one outside of it.
For example: I'm a high school senior. I work part time at a Best Western. I make more money then you do playing video games. That has nothing to do with which activity deserves more prestiege.
flaaame away.
-----------------------------------
Search Key: 84218
Y!PP:
Captain Drumunki
Screaming Eels
Lord of the Flag of Convenience
oRO:
Kahyr Swordsman LVL 50
No Guild
Y!PP:
Captain Drumunki
Screaming Eels
Lord of the Flag of Convenience
oRO:
Kahyr Swordsman LVL 50
No Guild
Best of Luck, Cheers!
-----------------------------------
Search Key: 84218
hope some1 reads this
All flames aside, you really are ridiculous. Who brings obscure refrences such as rap music or professional basketball into the topic of playing games for money?
-----------------------------------
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um basketball players play games for money.
Make a difference!
Touche. I have no response to that.
-----------------------------------
Search Key: 84218
Where did i ever say you wouldnt be able to? If you can read as good as you can spell then i understand your lack of comprehension.
Make a difference!
Most of the ones i know do in fact make money.. Its really hard not to.
Sorry, I don't think every hardcore gamer out there breaks the rules.
quoted wrong post lol
Make a difference!
Do you people actualy read before you post? You quote but then you still referance things that were never even said. My god what a sorry bunch.
Make a difference!
Most of the ones i know do in fact make money.. Its really hard not to.
Sorry, I don't think every hardcore gamer out there breaks the rules.
quoted wrong post lol
You say MOST, I am not the person about every, but when you make a dumb generalisation with most that include me and many others,
I only feel there is 1 fool, not a sorry bunch like you state in the other post.
You make attacking generalisation at the expense of ''most'' hardcores, then you insult everyone indirectly. Sorry bunch.
Get lost!
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
You should re-phrase at the very least.
Change hardcores for: earning a living from games, and then I wont care.
The most hardcores players dont make money from this.
''Professionnal'' players dont make fun, they work for sport, their health problems show it, the same with folks that sell stuff, they work inside the games, they dont play it. However when you say ''most hardcores'' work instead of playing, in all honesty,
Get lost once more!
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
This post was primarily about people attacking others for being hardcore gamers. I was never trying to justify breaking the rules. Some games do in fact allow you to profit from playing them. Its both allowed and facilitated. Selling virtual property for real money is more of a debate in sublogic. When does the object become real? I'm not here to defend what i do. Most of the time i'm a gamer just like you but if i happen to make 10k a year all the sudden i'm a bad guy lol. The fact is people are too judgemental. I'm fine with who i am. Most hardcore gamers play so much because its what they enjoy. To sit in judgement and think that your lifestyle is the better one is pretty egotistical.
Don't get me wrong i'm against the botters who load up 10 pc's with macro's and use every exploit they can to squeeze as much money out of the game as possible. I too would like to see these people burn in hell. But the fact also remains that this is a Billion dollar business so somebody is buying and encouraging people to do it.
Make a difference!
No because i am hardcore i dont earn a "living" off games. I could though and "most" hardcores do make money. And i never said it was work did i? i said if you think its work guess again. I play because i enjoy the game. I enjoy helping out casual players as well. That doesnt mean i've never dumped 100k plat to IGE for $60. Most of the people i know at some point either have or will dump currency. There is no reason to differentiate between style of games.. a game is a game. entertainment is entertainment. People who buy plat so they can enjoy the game are no different that people who buy the tickets so they can enjoy the game. The only difference is really in the abilities it takes to play the game.
I'm trying not to generalize really. I know not every hardcore gamer is selling plat. We need to seperate hardcore gamers who sell an abundance of plat from the botters who exploit. There is a difference.
Make a difference!
No, but when you do any action that may ruin my gameplay, then you are indeed a bad guy.
If you make a generalisation about hardcore selling stuff, you pissing me and you are the person who come and get me off my quiet place. I dont mind that much whatever you do, but when you implie that most hardcores sell stuff, you are screwing with me badly.
Whenever someone do something that encourage enforcing lame stuff and ruining my game experience, I am piss and that someone is a bad person. If you accept to do something boring to make cash, and that something is why a company dont evolve and keep thinking this or that is good and it ruin my fun, I am pissed. I want to play and make fun, and if someone is selling items that I will not buy and that are boring to get, they are freaking pissing me because folks will buy it and the company will keep it this way, all at the expense of the fun!
As long as folks making money dont mess with fun, I dont care, but when selling items justify the enforcing of boring stuff, they freaking piss me. If all solo uberness was earned through soloing, it would not be an issue, but since it is not and since some folks buy stuff and the companies think their system is fine and fun, they are doing it at the expense of fun and I bicth!
As long as someone will buy 1 item that is earned in another field that the devs enforce(like better gear throught raiding) and then they are good in soloing, I will be piss, because they are spoiling the fun of the game. I need to either raid and be miserable instead of making fun, or buying the items, both are unacceptable and folks selling items over it encourage that freaking lame system that destroy the fun!
Thereby making money that way is immoral and I will bitch. If they sell stuff that are not breaking those gameplay styles, I cant care less, if a soloer buy from a soloer, I cant care less. If a raider buy from a raider, I cant care less. If a soloer buy from a raider, I bitch at the lame system and the whores who encourage it.
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Once again this post was never about people playing the game to make money. This post is about people who generalize hardcore gamers as lifeless. The whole money thing was taken out of context and hijacked for flaming purposes. Please re-read the original post and try to comprehend what its saying.
Make a difference!
kinda sad, but it is completly true, ohh discordia...
I would like to commend the original poster for having the nerve to post this.
He's right of course. Hardcore gamers are NOT the cause of all that's bad in MMO's, just the opposite. Its hardcore gamers that blaze trails and find new areas. It's hardcore gamers that create new tactics, both solo and team, it's hardcore gamers that lead raids, and participate in them, opening the door for the regular guy to actually see a dragon, and maybe get a shot at dragon loot.
For every person who sells virtual goods, there's also a buyer. Every time someone dumps 100k plat on the market, someone else in the world is walking away a happy camperr. That person can then take that 100k and skip the whole rats/bats/rusty weapons stage of the game and concentrate on learning tactics instead of looting rat dung.
The difference between a newbie and a veteran is, the veteran can give himself a modest fund, and be level 10 in a couple of hours with all their spells and appropriate gear, while the newbie is still busy looting small rotents to fund their cloth armor collection.
The newbie stage was fun the FIRST time. After that it was hell. Do you expect ppl to go through that every time they want to try a different type of toon?
Companies like sony want you to spend 5 hours looting bat schit, so you can spend the next 2 years subscribed to their game and paying for expansions, whereas if you're smart, you can plunk down 50 bucks and skip the boring crap, and fast forward to the fun parts of the game.
Now, all that having been said...
I think there IS value and benefit to having a life outside of video games.
First of all, sitting in a computer chair all day is not healthy. Being without meaningful social relationshps is not healthy. Being without sunlight is not healthy. Not getting enough exercise is not healthy. Not getting enough sex is not healthy. Being in front of the radiation from the monitor is not healthy.
And last but not least, having a jaded hardcore computer gamer mindset is not healthy.
I wouldn't be surprised if you had severe bouts of depression from your biologically detrimental way of life.
I too spend WAAAAAAY too much time playing video games, but I go out once in a while, and I exercise as much as I get the willpower too.
The thing that concerns me most is the radiation from the monitor, I'm looking into getting a low rad model, I just dont think this thing is healthy to look at for long periods of time.
Good luck to ya.
hope some1 reads this
Would it be justice for holy to conquer evil?
I don't see how people can give Copeland a hard time. Personally, I respect him for having a passion for games and not being afraid to stand behind his beliefs. Passions come in all forms of life. Some people like sports, travelling, hunting, scuba diving, reading, writing, and yes playing games. Just because an internet game is not old fashioned and something you can share with your relatives of the past doesn't mean it's not a reasonable hobby or passion to have. It is shallow-minded to think otherwise.
This is all coming from a casual gamer, by the way. But I do like games
I think I will put in my 2 cents worth (and it's not about the selling virtual stuff issue!).
I don't have any personal grudges against hardcore gamers. IMO, they have more experience in playing the game, and in return, know much about gameplay balance issues. They understood the mechanics and gaming aspects of the game, and thus gives them an advantage to play the game much faster than everyone else. Not to mean that they use some sort of cheats or bugs to play the game (which entirely defeats the purpose of playing it for fun, which is the basic reason for hardcore gamers), but because they knew the game so well, they're able to play the game and ascend to the next level much faster. It's like playing chess: the more you know how to play the game, the better you can formulate strategies or plans to defeat the opponent.
I think the misconception arise when it seems that casual gamers, who are unable to catch up with the hardcore gamers one-on-one, points out to some of the flaws (either behaviourial or hygiene) to degenerate them. Also, they play on the fear of [insert Latinized word here] --> (I dunno what it's called for fear of the other party using their advantage (i.e. the extensive knowledge of the game) to beat you up one-on-one) from other casual gamers to support their cause (and fuel hatred) against hardcore gamers.
IMO, dealing with hardcore gamers is like dealing with the World Master Chess champions. It's a matter of playing the game your own way vs. playing the game by forcing others to play the game your way. There's a difference.
On a personal level, I do appreciate their presence, I respect what they loved for. However, there will be certain individuals I would back off (well, due to, e.g. hygiene), but that's because of their lifestyle. For their passion, well, what they're passionate about is their business. They're just normal gamers that's all.
Regarding the selling of virtual items, I think this one is agreeable that it's illegal. Even hardcore gamers will agree on that.
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I am called "Forum Thread Death". Why? Well, try counting how many replies have been sent after me....
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I am called "Forum Thread Death". Why? Well, try counting how many replies have been sent after me....
Copeland, i'm curioius but what games do you play that you make a profit off of that 'allow' it?
As far as i know, 90% of them dont, or at the very least frown upon selling the virtual items for RL cash. And i'm assuming the few that do are probably so dead that the market for those items arent nearly as easy to make money as the ones that have it against their TOS.
I'd also be embarressed to call that type of lifestyle a living. I know you said thats not what you do or your only income, but to tell my parents or friends thats how i make a living would be very embaressing.