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The Foundry and Copyrights ?
AG-Vuk
Member UncommonPosts: 823
I'm going to muse out loud here for a second regarding the Foundry. It has Eula , and I'm pretty sure Cryptic is claiming the content as theirs once it's posted ? So in a game like CO or CoX or even in the case of NwN , copyright infringement isn't much of an issue. Star Trek is a whole other beast, where copyrights are a concern . We know that CBS looks over the scripts pretty throughly for the quaterly " weekly " episodes , otherwise they would be produced faster, for copyright violations and that they stay within some form of canon.
So what happens if a player perpetutates a blantant copyright violation ? What are the consequences , should there be any ? Does the copyright holder have any recourse ? I'm sure there are lawyers that are gamers , at the very least law students? I'm curious how the law would view this ? I pretty sure CBS doesn't hold all the copyrights to all the Star Trek material out there . You know someone will come along and copy something that will end up being a copyright violation . So what happens then ?
Comments
Until I see something to the contrary, I have to assume that this has already been discussed with CBS and that a blanket pass has been given to the players in regards to the Foundry. I just can't see them having CBS look at each and every player made mission. As for blatant copyright violation, all Cryptic needs to do is yank the offending material and contact the player who made it. I guess someone who made a mod for a Starfleet Command game could pop up and claim that a STO player stole their work, but CBS, Atari, and Cryptic are protected (and the player who made the material with the Foundry should be as well) because CBS holds the license and the original mod was unauthorized in the first place (if it was authorized, then CBS should have dibs on it due to their contract).
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Creating a foundry mission to mirror or duplicate a real episode of a Star Trek series that has been on the air, or a Trek novel that is sold in stores is not a copyright violation because it exists within the STO universe (which has the rights to Trek). I fully expect to see quite a few foundry missions based on real episodes. They should be fun!
The real problem would be if a player creates a foundry mission based on a piece of fan fiction without permission of the writer. If the writer saw it and raised a stink, Cryptic would have to pull the mission and the person who posted it could be in trouble. But beyond that I don't think there would be an issue.
I ask , because I believe there are some books that aren't covered by the copyright that CBS holds. You correct it really depends on how much of a stink someone would want to raise , but stanger things have happened?
Actually, i've seen content from all the TV series but not much if any material from the extended trek universe (meaning books, comics, etc.) I do not know the limitations of Cryptic's agreement with CBS. I always theorized it might have been one reason we got the Galaxy X but not the Aventine.
There is a copyright statement you agree to before creating a mission, it lists what you can use, and states anything outside of that list is off-limits (at least that's what I remember). Basically if you agree to it and you violate copyrights you've given them permission to take action.
Makes sense then , they're saying that if you fail to read and abide by the rules proscibed in the agreement you're on your own . I'm not sure that flies though ? The main reason is that they are providing the tools and claiming the content as their property , I find that a bit ambigious. I mean you give someone the ability to do this on your game , then tell them any content they make belongs to Cryptic/CBS , Cryptic /CBS profits from said content, and yet they have no liablity ? So they can profit from it and have no liability. That make sense to anyone ? It just doesn't work that way in the real world, from my experiences.
I don't remember the whole thing, but they are not exactly claiming it as their property entirely. I mean when they did the preview and posted a few of the missions that players recommended to the live server they still retained the author's names and notes. More than anything I think the claim to property is just like the claim that all MMO's make - the game world and assets, even those we create via ingame means belong to the game company. Having this sort of ownership means that if they decide to pull a player created mission they have the legal right to do so.
I'm not aware of a contest for player created content, unless you are referring to the "Design the new enterprise" which didn't use the foundry. Now who knows what might come in the future, but right now I think all they've done is this sort of "spotlight" thing which was just them picking some of their favorite player created missions and putting them on the live server. No profit other than the fact that it provides more content and might keep a few subbers around, but that's the whole point of player generated content any way.
Out of curiosity (and if it doesn't break any NDA of course) could you name what you remember that was on the list as acceptable? There are some really good novels and such out there, such as the Diane Duane(sp?) Romulan seriers, and I'm curious to see if those are kosher.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
If I get a chance I'll log in and see if I can get a screenshot. Foundry is now on Tribble, so it is open to the public. If my memory serves sadly there wasn't much in the way of the Trek novels that were open to us in the foundry. I specifically wanted to make some missions around the IKS Gorkon novels but those were not on the list.
Drats! I was hoping her novels would be on the list; she's done more to flesh out the Romulans than anyone else I know of. Oh well, perhaps they'll be able to use her stuff when they eventually get around to the Romulan faction (assuming they make them a faction and don't just split them up between the Klingons and Federation like they have talked about). Still, I'd like to get a look at the list when you have time. Thanks!
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3461468&postcount=52
You want the safe route; an honest answer and will accept that I will not niggle about and try to help you guys find loop holes? Can do!
Do not use any names previously used in any form of Trek.
Do not use any likeness previously used in any form of Trek.
Do not 'pay homage' to either of the above previously used in any form of Trek.
Be creative. Make it your own. Your very own. Do not not lend, borrow or bluntly take from anyone else. Be that series, book, film or game - or any other place. Respect the copyright of any professional as you respect the creativity of any other user who uses the UGC tool.
I guess that answers that . This discussion is about characters from ST. Questions then begs how do they enforce this? Does a dev or employee review every Foundry project submitted ?
I doubt cbs would complain, it's like writing fan fiction on a games forums. If you read the ELUA it says anything submitted to the web site becomes instantly the property of said company to use, reuse, modify, and distribute as they please. In other words, you draw a picture, make a good story, or submit something you liked and wanted people to enjoy. The next week you see that something in the game or on TV and go, hum, wait I made that, wheres my credit for it? They really don't care if you wreck canon or not, they just won't allow something that does to be included into the game, but if you advance canon then they will keep it.
This was a big thing around the time that this game and many others like SWToR were announced, people flooded the forums with stuff then found out that their stuff, stuff they had made, now belonged to Cyrptic, EA, Blizzard, etc. To put it simple these companys love this stuff, because not only are they getting paid by you for you to make content for them, they get the rights to it the second you hit submit.
I think your exactly right. If you're posting the item directly onto the forums or onto any server that Cryptic owns, then it becomes their property. It's also the same with some external website were you can post Fanfiction/Pictures that you've wrote or made. This is why you have to be very careful were you post your work. Always check the end user agreement and make sure you're happy with what you're signing up to.
The best way I think it to find a hosting package, then host it on your own server and then post the link. That way it isn't hosted on their domain, you're just linking to it. But since making game content for STO involves uploading your work to a Cryptic server, then this option isn't really open to you.
Probably community policed. There is a "rating system" for the missions, so there is probably also a system in place to report things "inappropriate" Judging by the names I see in game, I doubt their gonna go out and hammer anyone too hard on "inappropriate", but they might have to for copyright issues depending on their agreement.
It's doubtful that the community would be aware or even care , about any copyright infringement , other then the most blatantly obvious. Which bring us back to the point , what is Cryptic's roll and responsiblity in all this ? Legally, burying your head in the sand and saying you weren't aware of it doesn't work . Copyright infringement is a particularly serious issue for a game that is collecting monthly dues. If it were F2P and this content were part of the F2P access, then it would be treated as a mod . I would think to a degree ? Heck remember what happen to the guy that made the World of Starcraft mod ? They were able to work it out and sweep it under the rug , but companies get pretty serious about this stuff.
I think you're totally right, and people should be made aware of that. As a freelance artist, NEVER post your work on commercial forums. On a side related note I think this is a little abusive, a bit too much power given to corporations by legal infringements, as is more and more the case. My work should remain mine, and those post should serve as a proof of anteriority. Unfortunately, they don't, so beware if you create stories you wish (hope) to see published, because they won't, ever, at least not with your name on it, if you use them in foundry stories. Which is sad.
I'm thinking that one day a million-dollars hit from a big media corporation, originally written by a fan on their forum, will make a huge noise and hopefully help limit how much companies can "own" our data. Especially when we happen to be creator of said data...
It's a totally weird legislation too. How would people feel if Microsoft owned Windows-created content, Adobe owned all Photoshop created content, and so on?
I have a feeling that the Foundry somehow falls under ingame crafting in terms of legislation. So player-created missions would be the same as player-created items, because they are made using the ingame tools provided by the developer.
CBS owns the Star Trek IP anyway, so without a licence from them, you can't claim copyright of your content, whether it's a foundry mission you created or a short story you wrote and posted online.
Indeed. I was talking more about sci-fi stories written by players, that they then adapted into the foundry. It's like you write the next star trek series as a kid but play it with Legos, and in this case Lego owns your great story before you can grow up and publish/film it. Oops!
The only problem with that is that a site can put anything down as rules or agrements to use their site, the problem comes with trying to enforce those agreements, like at a big box store that has a sign outside that says they are not responsible for damage to your car from loose shopping carts or the sticker on the back of an over loaded dump truck full of gravel that says they are not responsible for damages caused from loose or falling items from the truck, they loose everytime they are sued.